New amp to power my B&W speakers. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 19 Old 07-12-2015, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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New amp to power my B&W speakers.

Hi everyone,
looking to upgrade my amp. I have a Pioneer VSX-921 AMP at the moment which I have been told it is well under powered for what I need.

My setup is,
B&W 683 floor standing speakers.
B&W HTM61 centre speaker.
B&W 685 for the two rear speakers.
B&W ASW610XP sub.
Oppo 103AU bluray player.
Panasonic PT-AE8000 projector.
Budget $1500 US.
Any recommendations of what amp will easily run my setup?

Any help would be really appreciated.

Cheers guys.
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post #2 of 19 Old 07-12-2015, 06:47 AM
 
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post #3 of 19 Old 07-12-2015, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee2505nz View Post
Hi everyone,
looking to upgrade my amp. I have a Pioneer VSX-921 AMP at the moment which I have been told it is well under powered for what I need.

My setup is,
B&W 683 floor standing speakers.
B&W HTM61 centre speaker.
B&W 685 for the two rear speakers.
B&W ASW610XP sub.
Oppo 103AU bluray player.
Panasonic PT-AE8000 projector.
Budget $1500 US.
Any recommendations of what amp will easily run my setup?

Any help would be really appreciated.

Cheers guys.
Hi Lee. The first thing you need to do is make an estimate of your power needs, rather than take someone's word for it. Your power needs will depend on the sensitivity of your speakers, your preferred absolute maximum volume level, the distance from your speakers to your listening position and to a certain extent, the general acoustic properties of your room.

We know the voltage sensitivity of your B&W's from here: B&W 683 Surround Speaker System Measurements. Your 683 mains will likely govern what your power needs will be, so concentrate on them. As the testers have input 2.83V into a nominal 6Ω speaker (generating 1.3W), we can conservatively adopt a wattage sensitivity of 85dB/1W/1m for the 683's.

To continue on and make an estimate of your power needs, you can work through the steps some bloke has outlined here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post35699682. Please get back to us with an estimated power figure, and we'll go from there with some recommendations. Or if you strike a problem figuring it out, please let us know.
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post #4 of 19 Old 07-12-2015, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
No good. The Pioneer VSX-921 lacks multichannel pre-outs (sub only).
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post #5 of 19 Old 07-12-2015, 09:34 AM
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The Outlaw 975 AV processor plus the 7125 Outlaw power amp will put you at your $1500 budget.
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post #6 of 19 Old 07-12-2015, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
Hi Lee. The first thing you need to do is make an estimate of your power needs, rather than take someone's word for it. Your power needs will depend on the sensitivity of your speakers, your preferred absolute maximum volume level, the distance from your speakers to your listening position and to a certain extent, the general acoustic properties of your room.

We know the voltage sensitivity of your B&W's from here: B&W 683 Surround Speaker System Measurements. Your 683 mains will likely govern what your power needs will be, so concentrate on them. As the testers have input 2.83V into a nominal 6Ω speaker (generating 1.3W), we can conservatively adopt a wattage sensitivity of 85dB/1W/1m for the 683's.

To continue on and make an estimate of your power needs, you can work through the steps some bloke has outlined here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post35699682. Please get back to us with an estimated power figure, and we'll go from there with some recommendations. Or if you strike a problem figuring it out, please let us know.
Seems really complicated. I am a newbie really and got a pro to set this all up.
Mainly people say the 90watts per channel is not near enough to get the best out of my hungry speakers.
What would be a good amp that would easily run these speakers?

Thanks.

Last edited by lee2505nz; 07-12-2015 at 03:02 PM.
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post #7 of 19 Old 07-12-2015, 03:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee2505nz View Post
Seems really complicated. I am a newbie really and got a pro to set this all up.
Mainly people say the 90watts per channel is not near enough to get the best out of my hungry speakers.
What would be a good amp that would easily run these speakers?

Thanks.
This site is rabidly anti amplifier.
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post #8 of 19 Old 07-12-2015, 04:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
This site is rabidly anti amplifier.
Rather than your preference for rabidly pro amplifier? I think most here have no problems with amplifiers, as many of us have a variety of gear including power amps, as long as you understand what you're getting from one....many never play near loud enough to need more amp than they've got, searching for some mythical additional sound quality that comes from additional power on tap and not used....

@lee2505nz are you audibly maxing out your current avr? What features, aside from additional power, do you want in an avr or a pre/pro+amp setup? Are you seeking reference level playback levels? How far is seating from the speakers now? Are you in NZ?
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post #9 of 19 Old 07-12-2015, 05:29 PM
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As others mentioned your pioneer 921 has no pre outs needed to simply add a amp to your Fl&Fr channels.

Unless you run your setup at Reference levels (hearing loss levels), and sit more than 15ft away from them, the 921 or most mid to high end avrs should power them fine!

Your speakers are very effecient, and should reproduce great sound with 75w or more being fed to them! What op think is a matter of Opinion! You have to decide what sounds Best to you, as Everyones hearing is different....
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post #10 of 19 Old 07-12-2015, 05:32 PM
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Wow. This thread is deja vu. Exact same thread 2 years ago. Same participants and equipment.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...e-theatre.html
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post #11 of 19 Old 07-12-2015, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post
Wow. This thread is deja vu. Exact same thread 2 years ago. Same participants and equipment.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...e-theatre.html
Lol, good catch Kikenit!
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post #12 of 19 Old 07-12-2015, 05:36 PM
 
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Cue the Twilight Zone music please....
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post #13 of 19 Old 07-12-2015, 05:39 PM
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As long as you don't need any 4k video or plan to expand beyond 5.1 this combination is hard to beat.
Marantz flagship sr7008 and a crown x2000 amp (2x400 watts 4ohm) for $1200.
http://www.amazon.com/Marantz-SR7008-9-2-Channel-Networking-
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...450w-power-amp
Run the towers off the crown and the other speakers use the internal amps. Never worry again.
The sound quality will be way better than the lower denon. Pass 4k @30hz and 3d video no problem.

The denon x4000 is one level below the sr7008. Save $200. The 7008 adds 2 more amp channels.
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X400.../dp/B00CALM17C

Last edited by kikkenit2; 07-12-2015 at 06:29 PM.
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post #14 of 19 Old 07-12-2015, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
This site is rabidly anti amplifier.
AVSforum.com doens't have any opinions like that. The people in this forum and typically well educated and well informed and advocate amplifiers where appropriate. That's a contrast to the old school though where amplifiers sound different and are always needed.
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post #15 of 19 Old 07-13-2015, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee2505nz View Post
Hi everyone,
looking to upgrade my amp. I have a Pioneer VSX-921 AMP at the moment which I have been told it is well under powered for what I need.

My setup is,
B&W 683 floor standing speakers.
B&W HTM61 centre speaker.
B&W 685 for the two rear speakers.
B&W ASW610XP sub.
Oppo 103AU bluray player.
Panasonic PT-AE8000 projector.
Budget $1500 US.
Any recommendations of what amp will easily run my setup?

Any help would be really appreciated.

Cheers guys.
Here is the dealio....forget about everything you have been reading...how does this system sound to you?
Does it play loud enough without audible distortion for you?
If that answer is yes my recommended amp/AVR is the one you have.
If the answer is no, then quite frankly $1500 is not enough money to really fix the problem.
You will need a different AVR/processor and a multichannel amplifier.
Doubling up the power to 160w only gets you an additional 3dB SPL to get 6dB you are looking at 320w.
Throwing wattage at a speaker problem really doesn't work all that well.
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Regards,
Charlie

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post #16 of 19 Old 07-14-2015, 02:01 AM
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Unfortunately, there's a lot of bias in how things sound to you. Unless the listening is blind and free of bias, it's not going to mean much.
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post #17 of 19 Old 07-14-2015, 02:11 AM
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Bickering and profanity removed. Infractions issued.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #18 of 19 Old 07-14-2015, 05:17 AM
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^ ^ Sincere apologies @DrDon and the thread. I trust it's OK to repost with the "colourful" expression removed.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee2505nz View Post
Seems really complicated. I am a newbie really and got a pro to set this all up.
Well, it couldn't be too complicated if I could work it out!

From the details in your previous thread, I can tell you that at a calibrated -9dBMV (your preferred for music) at a 10ft listening distance, you will be calling on the Pioneer's amps to generate about 40W bursts on peaks and about 6W continuous for the each of the 683's. Go crazy and bump the volume up to -5dBMV? You're looking at about 100W bursts and about 16W continuous per channel. Movies at -15dBMV? About 10W bursts for peaks and about 0.3WPC continuous per channel. This is clearly well within the capabilities of your Pioneer.

Quote:
Mainly people say the 90watts per channel is not near enough to get the best out of my hungry speakers.
Lee, many people don't actually know what they're talking about. Did any of them even ask you how loud you like to listen? This is why you need to arm yourself with a bit of technical knowledge... to call them on their meaningless subjective opinions. They are under the mistaken impression that rated output capability somehow makes a difference to a speakers behaviour or "gets the best out of" them. For some reason they also think that a near base model AVR couldn't possibly go well with a nice set of speakers, and therefore think relatively expensive speakers must be "paired" with suitably pricy electronics. It's just nonsense... the speakers have no way of "knowing" what is providing the voltage and current.

Here's the thing... at a given master volume level, the AVR's amps will swing the required voltage to accurately track the input signal and supply the requisite current drawn by the load (speaker). As long is it can achieve that at your absolute maximum volume level, your AVR has sufficient power. Whether the AVR is rated to generate 100W continuous or 200W continuous makes absolutely no difference, if 16W continuous is all that's called for, that's all that will be generated.

Quote:
What would be a good amp that would easily run these speakers?

Thanks.
As @chashint has already indicated, the one you have is perfectly fine, unless your listening habits have changed for the louder. But, if it'll get your mates and the monkey off your back (and assuming you don't need all the latest connectivity or features), I suggest you look for a (recently) superseded Denon, Marantz or Onkyo that packs Audyssey MultEQ XT32. This is arguably the best auto set-up and "room EQ" routine currently available in consumer grade AVR (IMO), and has the potential to make a tangible improvement to your system's sound.

The handy by-product of an XT32 enabled AVR is that they usually have at least 125WPC of rated power (2 channels driven; 8Ω) on tap, so theoretically it will be capable of playing marginally louder. (The difference between 90W and 125W is 1.4dB.) But at least it'll stop people telling you don't have enough power for the B&W's.

Some AVR options to consider are: Denon AVR-X4000, Marantz SR7008 and Onkyo TX-NR1010.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post
Wow. This thread is deja vu. Exact same thread 2 years ago. Same participants and equipment.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...e-theatre.html
Yeah, I left him hanging there didn't I? Sorry about that Lee.
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post #19 of 19 Old 07-14-2015, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee2505nz View Post
Hi everyone,
looking to upgrade my amp. I have a Pioneer VSX-921 AMP at the moment which I have been told it is well under powered for what I need.

My setup is,
B&W 683 floor standing speakers.
B&W HTM61 centre speaker.
B&W 685 for the two rear speakers.
B&W ASW610XP sub.
Oppo 103AU bluray player.
Panasonic PT-AE8000 projector.
Budget $1500 US.
Any recommendations of what amp will easily run my setup?

Any help would be really appreciated.

Cheers guys.
any higher end AVR would take care of your needs

if you like Pioneer...consider something like the Pioneer Elite SC87

Warren

Rm 1 LG65E7 Marantz 8802A prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A and HK PA2400 amps B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM6's.rears
Rm 2 Sony 49x900E Denon X7200 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Sony 55x930E Yamaha A1060 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Sony 65Z9D
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