Owner's Thread for Anthem 60, 720 and 1120 Receivers - Page 211 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6301 of 8417 Old 11-20-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
What does the HD version give that the regular one doesn't, and is it worth the $110 price difference? ($95 to $205)?
I just figured since my wife and kids wanted my Christmas list I might as well throw the 2x4HD on there and sell my old one. I'm sure the guys who are really into the MiniDSP can help a lot more, but too me it’s mostly a lot more processing power, newer software and it has its own power supply where the 2x4 needs a USB to A/C outlet adapter like we use on out phones. For me I just use it for a house curve with REW and never change it after that. It really is a set and forget thing after you get the curve you like. Here’s a comparison of the differences between the two. http://support.minidsp.com/customer/...2x4-and-2x4hd-
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post #6302 of 8417 Old 11-20-2018, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
I just figured since my wife and kids wanted my Christmas list I might as well throw the 2x4HD on there and sell my old one. I'm sure the guys who are really into the MiniDSP can help a lot more, but too me it’s mostly a lot more processing power, newer software and it has its own power supply where the 2x4 needs a USB to A/C outlet adapter like we use on out phones. For me I just use it for a house curve with REW and never change it after that. It really is a set and forget thing after you get the curve you like. Here’s a comparison of the differences between the two. http://support.minidsp.com/customer/...2x4-and-2x4hd-
You should sell me your MiniDSP 2x4.

Thanks for the insight.
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post #6303 of 8417 Old 11-20-2018, 12:31 PM
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You should sell me your MiniDSP 2x4.

Thanks for the insight.
Hey no problem, glad to help. If you decide to go with the regular 2x4 instead of the 2x4 HD you can have mine for $50.
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post #6304 of 8417 Old 11-20-2018, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
are the other options for adding back some bass "punch" (I have like low rumbling bass and a smooth response, but miss the chest kick) is to a) try adding some room gain (I'm at +3.5)m or b) getting a MiniDSP of some sort and creating a house curve?
Try setting Room Gain to zero, then add gain to the subwoofer output.

If that does not get you satisfying bass, the MiniDSP route might be best. I did that because I wanted identical bass EQ for my dual surround processor setup (and different bass than ARC provided). I'm using the OpenDRC-AN as it has 2 channels and XLR connectors. The dual channels allow me to EQ and delay the front/rear subs separately.

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post #6305 of 8417 Old 11-20-2018, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Try setting Room Gain to zero, then add gain to the subwoofer output.

If that does not get you satisfying bass, the MiniDSP route might be best. I did that because I wanted identical bass EQ for my dual surround processor setup (and different bass than ARC provided). I'm using the OpenDRC-AN as it has 2 channels and XLR connectors. The dual channels allow me to EQ and delay the front/rear subs separately.
I actually started at 0 room gain and adjusted the subwoofer output (that was about a year ago). It seems like the curve for the sub then just drops down in dB a bit and doesn't cover as high of frequency, effectively reducing the frequecies that I am looking to gain.

So I've been looking closer at the MiniDSP 2x4 and 2x4 HD, but just don't know if I need the 2x4 HD (for more than twice the cost of the 2x4) or if the regular 2x4 will do what I want.
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post #6306 of 8417 Old 11-20-2018, 04:01 PM
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Its too bad that the Anthem ARC mic can't work with REW/MiniDSP (or at least I haven't seen any reference to it being compatible).... I could save that $70.
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post #6307 of 8417 Old 11-20-2018, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
I actually started at 0 room gain and adjusted the subwoofer output (that was about a year ago). It seems like the curve for the sub then just drops down in dB a bit and doesn't cover as high of frequency, effectively reducing the frequecies that I am looking to gain.
If increasing the sub gain does not cover the bass frequencies of interest, then neither will adding an EQ to the subwoofer channel.

Have you tried increasing the Bass tone control? That works to a higher frequency. Even higher than Room Gain.

Have you used REW to measure the frequency responses of the L + Subs to check how they are blending?

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post #6308 of 8417 Old 11-20-2018, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
Its too bad that the Anthem ARC mic can't work with REW/MiniDSP (or at least I haven't seen any reference to it being compatible).... I could save that $70.
Hey Nick, you've been on the Anthem thread for a long time and have always been helpful and a great guy. I know it's hard to decide between the 2x4 or 2x4 HD and I'm getting a 2x4 HD just because like I said the wife and kids wanted me to put some stuff on my Christmas list.

Tell you what since I'm getting a 2x4HD you can have my 2x4 + the 2.1 advanced software to load on your computer(they charge $10 for the software) for free. So you can have my MiniDSP + software and I'll even ship it to you for free. All you need to do is get a UMIK-1 + REW.

The only catch is I can't part with it until the Friday before Christmas (12/21) because I won't have a new one until Christmas and I can't go a full month without my house curve.

Just pm me your address and I promise it's yours at no cost if you want it.

Legairre
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post #6309 of 8417 Old 11-20-2018, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
Hey Nick, you've been on the Anthem thread for a long time and have always been helpful and a great guy. I know it's hard to decide between the 2x4 or 2x4 HD and I'm getting a 2x4 HD just because like I said the wife and kids wanted me to put some stuff on my Christmas list.

Tell you what since I'm getting a 2x4HD you can have my 2x4 + the 2.1 advanced software to load on your computer(they charge $10 for the software) for free. So you can have my MiniDSP + software and I'll even ship it to you for free. All you need to do is get a UMIK-1 + REW.

The only catch is I can't part with it until the Friday before Christmas (12/21) because I won't have a new one until Christmas and I can't go a full month without my house curve.

Just pm me your address and I promise it's yours at no cost if you want it.

Legairre
Wow. Just wow! That is so awesome and generous. PM to be sent momentarily.
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post #6310 of 8417 Old 11-21-2018, 06:18 AM
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Wow. Just wow! That is so awesome and generous. PM to be sent momentarily.
Glad to help.
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post #6311 of 8417 Old 11-21-2018, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
I actually started at 0 room gain and adjusted the subwoofer output (that was about a year ago). It seems like the curve for the sub then just drops down in dB a bit and doesn't cover as high of frequency, effectively reducing the frequecies that I am looking to gain.

So I've been looking closer at the MiniDSP 2x4 and 2x4 HD, but just don't know if I need the 2x4 HD (for more than twice the cost of the 2x4) or if the regular 2x4 will do what I want.
Nick, just in case: Have you double-checked your Phase setup for the Sub? If your issue is primarily at the higher bass end of the Crossover region you may simply have cancellation problems (Phase mismatch) between the Sub and the Mains.
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post #6312 of 8417 Old 11-21-2018, 07:44 AM
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My anthem mic does work with the latest version of rew on mac and windows, it isn't far off from the response of my calibrated umik-1. REW still unfortunatley can't read the anthem calibration file. You would need some type of spl meter or reference mic calibrate the spl level at least or to make a calibration file. It would be better than nothing. It is good for about ˜100db.
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post #6313 of 8417 Old 11-21-2018, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
Nick, just in case: Have you double-checked your Phase setup for the Sub? If your issue is primarily at the higher bass end of the Crossover region you may simply have cancellation problems (Phase mismatch) between the Sub and the Mains.
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Thanks for the suggestion.

I've been chasing down this "missing" (I know it isn't truly missing) impact frequency off and on for a while now, and have tried many things, including phase settings on the subs without any success. Yes, I've measured some changes when adjusting the phase of the subs, but have had it at the best phase settings for a while now.

Thanks again for helping to brainstorm on this one.
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post #6314 of 8417 Old 11-21-2018, 12:23 PM
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Yes, I've measured some changes when adjusting the phase of the subs, but have had it at the best phase settings for a while now.
How was this measured?

Did you adjust phase, or speaker delays, or both? Is there a previous post showing a plot or data?

If not, you owe it to yourself to run a REW sweep of L + Sub (and also R and C + Sub, too). If the ARC mic is operational, no need to worry about the lack of the cal file in REW. For this test (and for any bass room mode tests) it does not matter.

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post #6315 of 8417 Old 11-22-2018, 05:04 AM
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Just recently upgraded from the mrx 300 to the 720. I like the changes in arc2. But just curious, I have a minidsp for my subs and was playing around with it last night doing some eq’ing after arc, and thought that I might be boosting too much of one frequency when arc has already boosted it. Should I leave it alone? Seems like arc2 does a far better job eq’ing then the original arc
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post #6316 of 8417 Old 11-22-2018, 05:42 AM
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If ARC has already applied some positive gain - don't add any more because you will lose a lot of headroom.

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post #6317 of 8417 Old 11-22-2018, 10:05 AM
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If ARC has already applied some positive gain - don't add any more because you will lose a lot of headroom.
That’s what I was thinking. I don’t want to boost twice. Wondering if I should take it out of the system then as all I’m using it for is for a hpf.
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post #6318 of 8417 Old 11-22-2018, 01:21 PM
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That’s what I was thinking. I don’t want to boost twice. Wondering if I should take it out of the system then as all I’m using it for is for a hpf.
If you are trying to impose a "house curve" tilt to the otherwise flat ARC subwoofer response, then as long as the curve you create in the MiniDSP is linear, there will be no headroom problems. (Maybe a cone excursion problem...)

Are you also using the MiniDSP to offset the delays between your subs? If so, then even with flat EQ it may be providing value to the system.

Do you have some way to measure either the electrical or acoustic response of the subs and equalization? If not, Room EQ Wizard (REW) is a great tool for that. Without such a tool, you are operating blind when it comes to tweaking EQ.

What sort of HPF are you using it for? Perhaps ARC can do that for you/

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post #6319 of 8417 Old 11-22-2018, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
If you are trying to impose a "house curve" tilt to the otherwise flat ARC subwoofer response, then as long as the curve you create in the MiniDSP is linear, there will be no headroom problems. (Maybe a cone excursion problem...)

Are you also using the MiniDSP to offset the delays between your subs? If so, then even with flat EQ it may be providing value to the system.

Do you have some way to measure either the electrical or acoustic response of the subs and equalization? If not, Room EQ Wizard (REW) is a great tool for that. Without such a tool, you are operating blind when it comes to tweaking EQ.

What sort of HPF are you using it for? Perhaps ARC can do that for you/
I was using the minidsp originally for HPF as i have 2 fully marty subs with the um18 and a inuke6000. So as of right now thats all I'm using it for. I have a couple of issues in my curve but a huge drop at 68 hz that i don't think any eq could boost it without loosing headroom. I can't remember if i saw the new arc2 will do hpf or not ill have to re check it. Also the other issue I'm having is the full marty's are so big i really don't have much room to put them any where so they have to stay in the front 2 corners unfortunately, if i was to re do it i would do 4 sealed 18's and have more room to move them around.
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post #6320 of 8417 Old 11-22-2018, 10:31 PM
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I was using the minidsp originally for HPF as i have 2 fully marty subs with the um18 and a inuke6000. So as of right now thats all I'm using it for.
If it's a HPF to limit bass for a ported enclosure, then ARC has an excellent tool for that in the Targets menu, subwoofer high pass filter. Set the order and corner frequency.

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I have a couple of issues in my curve but a huge drop at 68 hz that i don't think any eq could boost it without losing headroom.
You would not want to do that. Might have better luck shifting the seating forward or back a bit.

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post #6321 of 8417 Old 11-23-2018, 11:00 AM
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With all your HDMI issues it's starting to sound like the HDMI board is going bad.
Thank you all for the help and guidance in trouble shooting! I am all fixed now (all codecs working) after doing a Full Reset. Still having the the dolby volume quirk and mode not supported, but it is working.
Hope you all have a great weekend!

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post #6322 of 8417 Old 11-23-2018, 02:41 PM
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Has anyone gotten ARC (CEC) to work with TCL?

I purchased a 65 inch 6 Series and I cannot get sound using ARC. I have enabled CEC for audio on the receiver and on the TV. I have setup an input and selected HDMI ARC port 1 turned on CED on the TV for audio and audio control. The TV scans for CEC devices and it does not detect any. Has anyone been successful at this or should I just give up and use a Toslink cable?

Thanks,
Tim
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post #6323 of 8417 Old 11-24-2018, 08:55 AM
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I purchased a 65 inch 6 Series and I cannot get sound using ARC. I have enabled CEC for audio on the receiver and on the TV. I have setup an input and selected HDMI ARC port 1 turned on CED on the TV for audio and audio control. The TV scans for CEC devices and it does not detect any. Has anyone been successful at this or should I just give up and use a Toslink cable?

Thanks,
Tim
I don't know the TCL 6 Series but this may help...

On your TV
- If your TV has more than one HDMI port, verify you're plugged into the one that's ARC capable.
- Verify ARC is enabled on your TV... No clue how to do this on your set.

On the Anthem side:
- Verify you're plugged into HDMI Out 1.
- Set CEC Control = On in the Anthem menu (General Configuration)
- For your TV input, set Audio Input = HDMI ARC

That should be about it. I use ARC (audio return channel) and like the results but wow, it's a PITA to setup.

BTW I've tried the TOS Link cable route and it introduced audio delay (lip sync issues).


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post #6324 of 8417 Old 11-24-2018, 09:13 AM
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I've read that the LFE channel (the ".1") can contain frequencies up to 120Hz, and for this reason one should leave the "subwoofer lpf for lfe" setting in the Bass Management menu set to 120Hz.

But what happens if ARC selects a subwoofer cutoff target of, say, 80Hz? Are frequencies from 80 to 120 Hz filtered out? Or does Anthem Room Correction not apply to the LFE channel?


In a related question, on the Target Customization menu, should the "subwoofer" crossover frequency always be greater than "fronts" crossover? If it isn't, doesn't that create a "hole", meaning that some of the frequencies that are redirected from the fronts to the sub will be filtered out?

I've had an interesting email exchange with Anthem tech support regarding these and related question, and I thought I'd report back here on what I've learned.


First, the "Equalization Cutoffs" in the ARC targets menu probably should have been named something else, because they really don't have anything to do with equalization. The frequencies selected here simply specify the 3dB point of the high-pass filters for L/C/R/SL/SR and the low-pass filter for the subwoofer. This is your bass management functionality.



Equalization is controlled by the "Max EQ Frequency" setting, and it applies to ALL speakers. You can see this in the curve viewer tool for a given speaker by selecting "equalization". In my case, I get good integration between my subwoofers and main speakers if I set the L/R high-pass cutoff to 90 Hz, and the subwoofer low-pass cutoff to 90Hz. But when I look at the equalization curve it's clear that room correction is being applied to the subwoofer all the way up to 300 Hz (my Max EQ Frequency) even though its response has been rolled off nearly 30dB by 200 Hz!


Then there's the "subwoofer LPF for LFE" setting in the bass management menu of the AVM60 itself. This is an independent low-pass filter for the LFE / ".1" channel only. Since it's possible to have content in the LFE channel up to 120Hz it's probably best to leave this at the default 120Hz.


So to summarize:


The subwoofer channel contains the redirected bass from the other speakers. These are the bass frequencies below the settings selected for the "Equalization Cutoffs" in the ARC software.



The subwoofer also contains the LFE content which is first low-pass filtered at the "subwoofer LPF for LFE" frequency.


As long as "Max EQ Frequency" is greater than the maximum of the "Equalization Cutoffs", and "Max EQ Frequency" is greater than "subwoofer LPF for LFE", then all subwoofer channel content will be processed by ARC room correction.
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post #6325 of 8417 Old 11-24-2018, 04:26 PM
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I've had an interesting email exchange with Anthem tech support
Thanks much for gathering some first-hand details.

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First, the "Equalization Cutoffs" in the ARC targets menu probably should have been named something else, because they really don't have anything to do with equalization. The frequencies selected here simply specify the 3dB point of the high-pass filters for L/C/R/SL/SR and the low-pass filter for the subwoofer. This is your bass management functionality.
I would agree that for each high-pass filter one can see and adjust in the ARC software, there's a complementary low-pass filter redirecting bass to the subwoofer. (I made a proposed diagram to illustrate how they are linked). Yet even though every redirected bass signal is filtered, there's an additional "EQ Cutoff" (low-pass filter) for the subwoofer. My guess is it applies to all the redirected bass as shown. If this is correct, I do not understand its purpose. Seems unnecessary, and possibly detrimental to good acoustic summing in the crossover region.

Quote:
Then there's the "subwoofer LPF for LFE" setting in the bass management menu of the AVM60 itself. This is an independent low-pass filter for the LFE / ".1" channel only. Since it's possible to have content in the LFE channel up to 120Hz it's probably best to leave this at the default 120Hz.
Hopefully, this filter is indeed isolated to just the LFE signal, as in my proposed diagram. That way it would not interfere with the redirected bass as I earlier thought.

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post #6326 of 8417 Old 11-24-2018, 06:06 PM
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This is probably not the right thread, so apologies in advance and please redirect me.

Someone's selling MRX310 for $600CDN, used in mint condition. Is it good enough for a 5.1 system for my condo? Anything I'm missing from MRX520? I'm not keen for Atmos. Nothing too fancy.


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post #6327 of 8417 Old 11-25-2018, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by kumar2018 View Post
This is probably not the right thread, so apologies in advance and please redirect me.

Someone's selling MRX310 for $600CDN, used in mint condition. Is it good enough for a 5.1 system for my condo? Anything I'm missing from MRX520? I'm not keen for Atmos. Nothing too fancy.


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A bit more power is about it. The 310 is 80 wpc/2 channel driven. The 510 is 100 wpc/2 channel driven. In that regard the 520 is more like the 710 with 2 channels removed. Anthem is very conservative with power ratings. In one review I read the 510 went to 150 watts before it got anywhere close to maxing out. In that regard the 310 may be enough power for you. as it's power rating is also probably on the conservative side. I have floor standing speakers and the 520 drives them very cleanly to insane levels. For a basic 5.1 setup the 310 may be more than adequate for you. The question is really do you want a bit more headroom in the amp section. Also the 520 uses ARC-2, I'm not sure the 310 does.
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post #6328 of 8417 Old 11-25-2018, 05:53 AM
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Hello all. Is there a thread dedicated to Anthem Room Correction or the 10 series MRX receivers? If so would someone be so kind as to direct me to them? Having trouble setting up ARC on a 510. My search skills must be poor as I haven't been able to find anything. Thanks.

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post #6329 of 8417 Old 11-25-2018, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Thanks much for gathering some first-hand details.

I would agree that for each high-pass filter one can see and adjust in the ARC software, there's a complementary low-pass filter redirecting bass to the subwoofer. (I made a proposed diagram to illustrate how they are linked). Yet even though every redirected bass signal is filtered, there's an additional "EQ Cutoff" (low-pass filter) for the subwoofer. My guess is it applies to all the redirected bass as shown. If this is correct, I do not understand its purpose. Seems unnecessary, and possibly detrimental to good acoustic summing in the crossover region.
If the "EQ Cutoff" frequency for the fronts is less than the "EQ Cutoff" frequency for the subwoofer, then I think you're right in that the subwoofer "EQ Cutoff" is of limited use. Although, in my case at least it does seem to affect the ARC solution (how closely the corrected response follows the target.)


I've read, though, that it can be useful in the case for example, where say you had a really nasty hump at 90 Hz due to room modes. You could set the "EQ Cutoff" for the fronts to 100 Hz and the "EQ Cutoff" for the subwoofer to 80 Hz (EQ Cutoff fronts greater than EQ Cutoff sub). The filter roll-offs would tame the hump and allow the ARC room correction EQ filter sections that would have been needed to be used elsewhere...


Nice diagram, BTW

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post #6330 of 8417 Old 11-26-2018, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
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I was using the minidsp originally for HPF as i have 2 fully marty subs with the um18 and a inuke6000. So as of right now thats all I'm using it for.
If it's a HPF to limit bass for a ported enclosure, then ARC has an excellent tool for that in the Targets menu, subwoofer high pass filter. Set the order and corner frequency. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

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I have a couple of issues in my curve but a huge drop at 68 hz that i don't think any eq could boost it without losing headroom.
You would not want to do that. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG] Might have better luck shifting the seating forward or back a bit.
I was looking at that 2 days ago, just not sure what order to set it at? The highest order set the flattest, but again wasn’t to sure where to set it.
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