Owner's Thread for Anthem 60, 720 and 1120 Receivers - Page 237 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7081 of 8435 Old 04-29-2019, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
[/INDENT]I'm not sure how Auto works on the Opp, but if your seeing DTS-HD MA 2.0 onthe MRX display then the Oppo is outputting bitstream. Othewise you'd see "Multi CH PCM" on the MRX display. Unfortunately I di't have any of the BDs you have to try and recreate the issue.

Yeah I figured it was worth a try because Neural:X is for spreading out the sound to al the available channels. I'll be home in a couple of hours and I'll grab some of my DTS BDs with 2.0 and see if I can recreate the issue.

Thanks! Another thing that I noticed on one of the discs that the issue was occurring on was that the back of the case of the Die Hard UHD states "English Surround DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0" for that audio option, which I found odd as that seems like a contradiction. When testing out your own DTS-HD MA 2.0 discs at home, perhaps you could be on the lookout for titles that also have that designation on the case.


I'm now increasingly wondering if the audio for some "2.0" tracks are encoded in such a way as to produce multi-channel sound despite the confusing 2.0 label ...
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post #7082 of 8435 Old 04-29-2019, 02:25 PM
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Thanks! Another thing that I noticed on one of the discs that the issue was occurring on was that the back of the case of the Die Hard UHD states "English Surround DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0" for that audio option, which I found odd as that seems like a contradiction. When testing out your own DTS-HD MA 2.0 discs at home, perhaps you could be on the lookout for titles that also have that designation on the case.


I'm now increasingly wondering if the audio for some "2.0" tracks are encoded in such a way as to produce multi-channel sound despite the confusing 2.0 label ...
Thanks Ed, I'll check my collection for discs that say "English Surround DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0" and compare that to others and see if that's the issue. I'll post back later this evening.

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post #7083 of 8435 Old 04-29-2019, 02:53 PM
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Thanks! Another thing that I noticed on one of the discs that the issue was occurring on was that the back of the case of the Die Hard UHD states "English Surround DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0" for that audio option, which I found odd as that seems like a contradiction. When testing out your own DTS-HD MA 2.0 discs at home, perhaps you could be on the lookout for titles that also have that designation on the case.


I'm now increasingly wondering if the audio for some "2.0" tracks are encoded in such a way as to produce multi-channel sound despite the confusing 2.0 label ...
You may have found the answer before I even got home. I did a little searching and it appears that DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Surround is encoded with the surround flag so it has sounds in all the speakers even though it's 2.0. I'll have to try it when I get home.

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post #7084 of 8435 Old 04-29-2019, 07:35 PM
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You may have found the answer before I even got home. I did a little searching and it appears that DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Surround is encoded with the surround flag so it has sounds in all the speakers even though it's 2.0. I'll have to try it when I get home.

Interestingly, after doing some more research, I also found similar information indicating the same. That would explain why some discs with DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 audio tracks have surround activity and some don't (i.e. with vs. without surround flag). However, the thing that still confuses me is that I believe the Dolby Surround listening mode needs to be activated on the MRX to enable this. However, I have the listening modes set to "None."


Hopefully, you (or also anyone else) can test discs both with DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Surround and without Surround and can also try with Listening Mode set to "None" and "Dolby Surround" to see the difference. Thanks.
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post #7085 of 8435 Old 04-29-2019, 09:07 PM
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Interestingly, after doing some more research, I also found similar information indicating the same. That would explain why some discs with DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 audio tracks have surround activity and some don't (i.e. with vs. without surround flag). However, the thing that still confuses me is that I believe the Dolby Surround listening mode needs to be activated on the MRX to enable this. However, I have the listening modes set to "None."


Hopefully, you (or also anyone else) can test discs both with DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Surround and without Surround and can also try with Listening Mode set to "None" and "Dolby Surround" to see the difference. Thanks.
Actually the listening modes expand material to use all the available speakers in your system. If you set the listeing mode to none it will only play what is encoded by the flag on the disc. So if you have a 5.1 track it will only use 5.1 speakers and a 2.0 track will use 2 speakers and as you and I just found out a 2.0 surround track will also play the way it was flagged.


But if you use the listening modes like Dolby Surround, all channel, DTS Neural:X a 5.1 track will use 7.1 or 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 speakers if you have and Atmos setup.

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post #7086 of 8435 Old 04-29-2019, 09:48 PM
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Actually the listening modes expand material to use all the available speakers in your system. If you set the listeing mode to none it will only play what is encoded by the flag on the disc. So if you have a 5.1 track it will only use 5.1 speakers and a 2.0 track will use 2 speakers and as you and I just found out a 2.0 surround track will also play the way it was flagged.


But if you use the listening modes like Dolby Surround, all channel, DTS Neural:X a 5.1 track will use 7.1 or 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 speakers if you have and Atmos setup.

Ah, I see. So then that implies that decoding of DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Surround is automatic/forced for a multi-channel speaker profile, without the option to choose whether you want the surround decoding or not. This in effect makes it a 4.0 (or 5.0?) track that gets downmixed on one's system if they only have 2 speakers. What's confusing is why have a 2.0 Surround track that will automatically "upmix" instead of just using a multi-channel track (e.g. 5.1) that will downmix if needed. And I don't quite get the purpose of offering both a DTS-HD Master 2.0 Surround and a 5.1 track on the same disc. Seems somewhat redundant.


Do you know what the difference then is between the various Listening Modes that expand the material across all channels (e.g. Dolby Surround, All Channels, etc.)? Just different algorithms for each that maybe distribute the audio across the channels differently but otherwise used in the same way?
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post #7087 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 03:23 AM
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Ah, I see. So then that implies that decoding of DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Surround is automatic/forced for a multi-channel speaker profile, without the option to choose whether you want the surround decoding or not. This in effect makes it a 4.0 (or 5.0?) track that gets downmixed on one's system if they only have 2 speakers. What's confusing is why have a 2.0 Surround track that will automatically "upmix" instead of just using a multi-channel track (e.g. 5.1) that will downmix if needed. And I don't quite get the purpose of offering both a DTS-HD Master 2.0 Surround and a 5.1 track on the same disc. Seems somewhat redundant.
The disc rightfully carries a 5.1 and a stereo version of the mix if/when both versions are available, as they can be rather different. The issue lies with the Anthem processor somehow insisting on applying upmixing. I have encountered the same issue with a Blu-ray of Dave, which carries only a 2.0 DTS-HD MA track, sourced from a Dolby Stereo Lt/Rt master.

Anthem gives me 3 Mode options in this case: DTS-HD Master, DTS Neural:X, Dolby Surround. If I select Neural:X, the height speaker are used. If I select either of the others, they are not used. But all 7 main speakers are used in every case. Also, even though the display will read Dolby Surround, I do not think it is in use. The sound is identical with whatever is upmixing in DTS-HD Master mode, which I presume is a 7.1 version of Neural:X.

There are two ways to easily hear it in pure stereo.
1) Tell the BD player to output PCM.
2) Create a Speaker Profile that has only L/R and optional Subwoofer. I called mine "Stereo". You can select it from the Setup menu when needed, or create a new virtual input for the BD player that calls the Stereo profile.

ETA:Technically, applying upmixing to these titles is consistent with the intent of the original mixers. They mixed them that way and were presented that way in cinemas.
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post #7088 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 04:19 AM
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I’m trying to set up my 720 and I’m running into this problem. I have a Harmony Elite remote and I’ve programmed an activity called watch tv. The receiver will come on and my Dish receiver will come on. The 720 will switch to the right input and then switch to my Apple TV input. The Apple TV is not on at this point. I can use the help button to resolve this but would like for it to just work. Also for information, the Apple TV input happens to be the first input in the list of inputs. I also have the unit set to come on already switched to the Dish input. The Dish input is the one I’m trying to get it to stay on.


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post #7089 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 05:45 AM
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My MacBook is eagerly awaiting to download Genesis! Is today the day?


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post #7090 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 06:06 AM
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My MacBook is eagerly awaiting to download Genesis! Is today the day?


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Fingers crossed.


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post #7091 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 06:09 AM
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I’m trying to set up my 720 and I’m running into this problem. I have a Harmony Elite remote and I’ve programmed an activity called watch tv. The receiver will come on and my Dish receiver will come on. The 720 will switch to the right input and then switch to my Apple TV input. The Apple TV is not on at this point. I can use the help button to resolve this but would like for it to just work. Also for information, the Apple TV input happens to be the first input in the list of inputs. I also have the unit set to come on already switched to the Dish input. The Dish input is the one I’m trying to get it to stay on.


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More info. The Dish input is the 2nd input in the input list and I’m telling the 720 to switch to input 2. The way in understand it you have to use the input order within the 720 for the Harmony reference. I’m just wondering why it won’t stay on the input it’s told from the Harmony.


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post #7092 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 06:11 AM
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In Singapore...we are already in the evening time (8.10pm) on 30 Apr 19 as I typed out this response. In Canada, its about 8.06am. :P
Exciting times...
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post #7093 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 07:19 AM
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More info. The Dish input is the 2nd input in the input list and I’m telling the 720 to switch to input 2. The way in understand it you have to use the input order within the 720 for the Harmony reference. I’m just wondering why it won’t stay on the input it’s told from the Harmony.


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Go to the PREFERENCES / LINE OUTPUT setup menu and check the Main Power On Input setting. If it's currently set to input 1 change it to Last Used. Also make sure all CEC crap is turned off in GENERAL CONFIGURATION setup menu.
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post #7094 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 07:35 AM
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^+1... It does sound like it might be a CEC issue. How is CEC currently configured?


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post #7095 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 07:36 AM
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Go to the PREFERENCES / LINE OUTPUT setup menu and check the Main Power On Input setting. If it's currently set to input 1 change it to Last Used. Also make sure all CEC crap is turned off in GENERAL CONFIGURATION setup menu.


Ok I will try that. However I need CEC on for ARC from tv.


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post #7096 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 07:36 AM
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Go to the PREFERENCES / LINE OUTPUT setup menu and check the Main Power On Input setting. If it's currently set to input 1 change it to Last Used. Also make sure all CEC crap is turned off in GENERAL CONFIGURATION setup menu.


Power on and off enabled. ARC enabled.


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post #7097 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 07:38 AM
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Go to the PREFERENCES / LINE OUTPUT setup menu and check the Main Power On Input setting. If it's currently set to input 1 change it to Last Used. Also make sure all CEC crap is turned off in GENERAL CONFIGURATION setup menu.


It’s actually set to input 2. That’s the dish input. I’m at work but will try the cec tonight.


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post #7098 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 07:50 AM
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In Singapore...we are already in the evening time (8.10pm) on 30 Apr 19 as I typed out this response. In Canada, its about 8.06am. :P
Exciting times...

Looks like I might lose my Monopoly Money bet....and the website still says the same thing....Coming Soon, Available in April. Well, still about 15 hours left.....
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Anthem if you are listening, WE ARE WAITING.


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Folks, I have a question for those of you who have had Anthems' MRX and MCA products. I am planning on using the pre-outs on my MRX 720 with an MCA 525 down the line and I am wondering if it makes sense. The reason I went this route is because of financial considerations--didn't want to put a giant hole in my pocket in one shot.

First, do you advise it (i.e., I know the correct approach is to buy an AVM 60 and the MCA 525, for example).

Second, if you do advise it, despite it's weirdness, what can I do with the outputs that will not be routed to the 525?

Third, will it make one heck of a difference in my PSB X2T/XB/XC (5.1) setup (with a cheap sub from Polk for now)?

Hoping this will take the mind of those of us who are waiting for Genesis (only 13 hours left in the day, Anthem!).
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post #7101 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 09:22 AM
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It’s actually set to input 2. That’s the dish input. I’m at work but will try the cec tonight.


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travis-g, this might be of interest. It kind of sounds like my situation as well.

My AVM 60 is connected to a TV where I use CEC for the Audio Return Channel. For sources, I also have a Roku Premiere+ and a home theater PC. If I turned on my system to watch something on the HTPC, the AVM 60 would do exactly that for about 20 seconds and then would flip over to the Roku input.

It drove me a bit crazy for a while but it turned out to be spurious CEC signals being sent by the Roku. Even after turning off CEC on Roku it would still send CEC. Eventually someone told me about the Lindy HDMI Less CEC Adapter (about $25 on Amazon). Attaching this to the HDMI cable between my Roku and AVM 60 stripped out CEC messages from Roku and everything began to operate consistently.

May or may not be the issue you are seeing but thought it might help.


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post #7102 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 09:25 AM
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Looks like I might lose my Monopoly Money bet....and the website still says the same thing....Coming Soon, Available in April. Well, still about 15 hours left.....
Maybe "Coming Soon'ish"? Maybe they meant April 31st.


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post #7103 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 09:28 AM
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travis-g, this might be of interest. It kind of sounds like my situation as well.



My AVM 60 is connected to a TV where I use CEC for the Audio Return Channel. For sources, I also have a Roku Premiere+ and a home theater PC. If I turned on my system to watch something on the HTPC, the AVM 60 would do exactly that for about 20 seconds and then would flip over to the Roku input.



It drove me a bit crazy for a while but it turned out to be spurious CEC signals being sent by the Roku. Even after turning off CEC on Roku it would still send CEC. Eventually someone told me about the Lindy HDMI Less CEC Adapter (about $25 on Amazon). Attaching this to the HDMI cable between my Roku and AVM 60 stripped out CEC messages from Roku and everything began to operate consistently.



May or may not be the issue you are seeing but thought it might help.


Ok, thx I’m going to unplug the Apple TV and see if that helps.


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post #7104 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 09:32 AM
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Ok, thx I’m going to unplug the Apple TV and see if that helps.


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Yep, sounds like a good test!


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post #7105 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 09:35 AM
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Folks, I have a question for those of you who have had Anthems' MRX and MCA products. I am planning on using the pre-outs on my MRX 720 with an MCA 525 down the line and I am wondering if it makes sense. The reason I went this route is because of financial considerations--didn't want to put a giant hole in my pocket in one shot.

First, do you advise it (i.e., I know the correct approach is to buy an AVM 60 and the MCA 525, for example).

Second, if you do advise it, despite it's weirdness, what can I do with the outputs that will not be routed to the 525?

Third, will it make one heck of a difference in my PSB X2T/XB/XC (5.1) setup (with a cheap sub from Polk for now)?

Hoping this will take the mind of those of us who are waiting for Genesis (only 13 hours left in the day, Anthem!).
I'm getting my MCA525 tomorrow, so I'll know more soon.

I absolutely believe in the Anthem 60. Probably my most favorite component I've ever owned. Can't wait to pair it with its true twin instead of the B&K I have, which is awesome but is about to get relegated to Atmos and rear channel duty.
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post #7106 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 09:38 AM
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Maybe "Coming Soon'ish"? Maybe they meant April 31st.
Betcha they release it about 4 pm CST this afternoon. They want everybody ARC-ing tonight together.
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post #7107 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 09:52 AM
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Well, on the plus side, I just noticed that they are doing another 20% off trade in program. That was how I got my 720 a couple years ago.

And in fact, depending on who you buy from, you may not need to trade anything in.
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Last edited by BGLeduc; 04-30-2019 at 10:01 AM.
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post #7108 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
I'm getting my MCA525 tomorrow, so I'll know more soon.

I absolutely believe in the Anthem 60. Probably my most favorite component I've ever owned. Can't wait to pair it with its true twin instead of the B&K I have, which is awesome but is about to get relegated to Atmos and rear channel duty.

Look forward to the report back about how it goes!
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7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #7109 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 10:18 AM
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Is there official thread for Anthem MRX 520?
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post #7110 of 8435 Old 04-30-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
The disc rightfully carries a 5.1 and a stereo version of the mix if/when both versions are available, as they can be rather different. The issue lies with the Anthem processor somehow insisting on applying upmixing. I have encountered the same issue with a Blu-ray of Dave, which carries only a 2.0 DTS-HD MA track, sourced from a Dolby Stereo Lt/Rt master.

Anthem gives me 3 Mode options in this case: DTS-HD Master, DTS Neural:X, Dolby Surround. If I select Neural:X, the height speaker are used. If I select either of the others, they are not used. But all 7 main speakers are used in every case. Also, even though the display will read Dolby Surround, I do not think it is in use. The sound is identical with whatever is upmixing in DTS-HD Master mode, which I presume is a 7.1 version of Neural:X.

There are two ways to easily hear it in pure stereo.
1) Tell the BD player to output PCM.
2) Create a Speaker Profile that has only L/R and optional Subwoofer. I called mine "Stereo". You can select it from the Setup menu when needed, or create a new virtual input for the BD player that calls the Stereo profile.

ETA:Technically, applying upmixing to these titles is consistent with the intent of the original mixers. They mixed them that way and were presented that way in cinemas.

Interesting, so it sounds like some other brands of receivers don't automatically force upmixing of these 2.0 surround tracks (perhaps the option to toggle this function is offered?) but the Anthem does. I can live with that, as I'm not opposed to surround sound per se (I have a 5.1 setup after all). And as long as that's how the original mix was intended, works for me. I'm just glad to know that my Anthem isn't misbehaving or that I unintentionally have a menu setting engaged somewhere that is artificially expanding the mix beyond what's encoded on the disc.


I still think labeling it a "2.0 Surround" mix is somewhat contradictory and creates confusion for people who don't know otherwise, but I've now wrapped my head around the fact that that's what it's called. I'm also realizing that not all discs will state on the packaging that the 2.0 track is in fact surround. For example, it appears that neither the Dave Blu-ray or The Deer Hunter 4K UHD indicate this, while the Die Hard 4K UHD explicitly states "English Surround DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0."
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24bit/192kHz , 24bit/96khz , Anthem , anthem mrx720 , anthem triad in-wall subwoofer , atmos , firetv , hi res audio , mrx 1120 mrx 720 mrx 520 , MRX720 , [email protected] , Xbox

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