Owner's Thread for Anthem 60, 720 and 1120 Receivers - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 10188 Old 09-09-2015, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
I wonder how good it will sound 11 amps they have to be digital! The rating is going to be 50 Watts all channel driven
I'm running a Nuforce MCA-18 using 6 of its 8 channels @ 55w @ 8 ohms for TF,TR,Rear surrounds and it gets the job done even at reference volume. Had to digital due to space and not wanting that many amps sucking down more power than my A/C
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post #122 of 10188 Old 09-09-2015, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post
Even 5k cut off for avm60??
Yes. The mic becomes unreliable after 5k regardless of what it's plugged into.

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post #123 of 10188 Old 09-09-2015, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
I wonder how good it will sound 11 amps they have to be digital
only the back and height channels, which normally don't use as much power. The front and surround amps are the same as before.

Side note - class D amplification is named after the fourth letter in the alphabet, and isn't digital.
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post #124 of 10188 Old 09-09-2015, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post
Even 5k cut off for avm60??
Not a big deal. A good system won't require any correction above the transition region (200-500Hz, depending on room size) anyway.

Above that you're equalizing the speaker, not correcting the room. The beauty of ARC is not only that it does a pretty good job (better than the other room correction systems, IMO) in that range, but also that you can actually set it not to equalize any higher.

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post #125 of 10188 Old 09-10-2015, 06:23 AM
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When are the new MRX 720 coming out?
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post #126 of 10188 Old 09-27-2015, 03:30 PM
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I really hope the new receiver or at least the processor will have delay times in 10cm increments.
30cm/1foot not granular enough.
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post #127 of 10188 Old 09-27-2015, 03:37 PM
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7.2.4 only? Common, it's late 2015, who would buy such an obsolete gadget?
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post #128 of 10188 Old 09-28-2015, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by nadyn View Post
I really hope the new receiver or at least the processor will have delay times in 10cm increments. 30cm/1foot not granular enough.
The acoustic center of a speaker varies with frequency, identical speakers are rarely used in all channels, ears are 10 cm apart, and soundtrack makers don't create with their heads in vises. These things and more turn smaller delay steps into a wash.

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post #129 of 10188 Old 09-28-2015, 01:50 PM
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For me, a Yamaha RX-Z11 was a high-end receiver, when I bought it. Time to upgrade and I was dithering between The Yamaha 3050 and the Denon X6200. I'm really not familiar with Anthem, but I'm open to spending more for more. Please, what is the more?

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post #130 of 10188 Old 09-28-2015, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
For me, a Yamaha RX-Z11 was a high-end receiver, when I bought it. Time to upgrade and I was dithering between The Yamaha 3050 and the Denon X6200. I'm really not familiar with Anthem, but I'm open to spending more for more. Please, what is the more?
For many going with Anthem, ARC is the more (Anthem Room Correction). Many consider it better that Yamaha's YPAO or the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 found on the Denon.
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post #131 of 10188 Old 09-28-2015, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post
The acoustic center of a speaker varies with frequency, identical speakers are rarely used in all channels, ears are 10 cm apart, and soundtrack makers don't create with their heads in vises. These things and more turn smaller delay steps into a wash.
I am not entirely sure what are your trying to say, or the reply wasn't meant to answer my post?
However 30 cm delay increment it's way too large. All the other out there have them in 10 cm increment(denon, marantz, onkyo..) not to mention Arcam goes down to cm.

Last edited by nadyn; 09-28-2015 at 03:56 PM.
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post #132 of 10188 Old 09-28-2015, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
For me, a Yamaha RX-Z11 was a high-end receiver, when I bought it. Time to upgrade and I was dithering between The Yamaha 3050 and the Denon X6200. I'm really not familiar with Anthem, but I'm open to spending more for more. Please, what is the more?
This is an excerpt from Home Theater Review of the last gen MRX 710:

If, on the other hand, you're considering a move from another brand of receiver, the question is a little easier to answer. If you're looking to have all of your streaming audio services housed within one box, if AirPlay or Bluetooth connectivity is a must, if you want front height or front width channels, if you want a receiver that practically sets itself up, then perhaps you should keep looking. But if pure audio performance is what you're looking for, if you're itching for a surround sound receiver that performs shockingly well with five channels tied behind its back when you're listening to stereo sources, or if you're hunting for an AV receiver that would also make for an amazing (not to mention affordable) preamp when your budget allows, I can't encourage you enough to audition the MRX 710.

I don't know if the 720 will be the same, but for me I don't need all those extra gimmicky features that the Denon/Marantz/Yamaha brands have - my AVR's sole function will be for home theater. The powerful amps won't even be necessary for me since I'm going with separates, but it's good to know that they will be powerful enough for the average Joe.
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post #133 of 10188 Old 09-28-2015, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by nadyn View Post
I am not entirely sure what are your trying to say, or the reply wasn't meant to answer my post? However 30 cm delay increment it's way too large. All the other out there have them in 10 cm increment(denon, marantz, onkyo..) not to mention Arcam goes down to cm.
In the acoustic domain, things don't work neatly enough for smaller steps to make a usable difference and I gave the main reasons. If you have a reason besides menu comparison for maintaining that 30 cm distance increment, which is the same as 1 ms delay increment, is insufficient, what is it?

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post #134 of 10188 Old 09-28-2015, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

I don't know if the 720 will be the same, but for me I don't need all those extra gimmicky features that the Denon/Marantz/Yamaha brands have - my AVR's sole function will be for home theater. The powerful amps won't even be necessary for me since I'm going with separates, but it's good to know that they will be powerful enough for the average Joe.
Unfortunately the new receivers will be polluted with gimmicks....Air/Water/Earth Play, Bluetooth/wireless for iphone this, ipad that and so on. And yes the amp section it's now mixed like some channels are less important ?? as you said good enough for average Joe.
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post #135 of 10188 Old 09-28-2015, 05:15 PM
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^ No Bluetooth, no Airplay, and if the internal amplification is not to liking, the AVM 60 is an option. Wireless network connection also works for ARC.
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post #136 of 10188 Old 09-28-2015, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post
In the acoustic domain, things don't work neatly enough for smaller steps to make a usable difference and I gave the main reasons. If you have a reason besides menu comparison for maintaining that 30 cm distance increment, which is the same as 1 ms delay increment, is insufficient, what is it?
Yes, 15cm/0.5ms makes a difference(as an info.. I do have same high end speakers all round, Dyns Focus with exactly the same tweeters driven by a 5ch high end amp(parasound halo) exactly the same amp modules. mrx310 used as a pre/pro

And I can say it's not a menu comparison between the above models.. I owned them, and honestly I am waiting for the AVM60 before going back to Arcam.

I don't see any reason for "don't work neatly enough for smaller steps" as we all know the delay it's not a factor in ARC calculation, reason why those values can be change any time.
And finally yes... a processor must have that kind of granularity hence almost all the other vendors have that in receivers.

Last edited by nadyn; 09-28-2015 at 11:42 PM.
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post #137 of 10188 Old 09-28-2015, 08:51 PM
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Assuming the 720 and 1120 will have Play-Fi, we don't really have to worry about airplay/bluetooth anyway.
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post #138 of 10188 Old 09-29-2015, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by nadyn View Post
0.5ms makes a difference
In production, delays applied between channels for 3D effect begin at 10x that amount and are most often 20-60x. The purpose of distance compensation is to make correlated sounds in different channels arrive as intended and 1ms is plenty of tolerance.

www.digido.com/articles-and-demos12/13-bob-katz/20-depth-and-dimension.html

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I don't see any reason for "don't work neatly enough for smaller steps"
Back up a few posts and even though you're using five identical speakers, with finer steps you're no longer adjusting for a single position but for a single ear when we use both. Each picks up sounds from all speakers not just the left half or right half of the system.

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post #139 of 10188 Old 09-29-2015, 09:03 AM
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@bkeeler and @blastermaster
Thanks for your comments. I don't care about streaming or bluetooth connectivity. I do care about the new Dolby Atmos and DTS:X 3-D codecs. I have an 11.2 speaker setup now, planning on using the Yamaha FH and RH as the .4 speakers. I have a pair of AT 44DA Atmos-enabled speakers upfiring to 9' concrete ceiling available, if I feel the need for a pair of the .4 speakers to be an "overhead". I'm currently using Emotiva X-200 and x-100 amps for the mains and center, as preparation for a new receiver that will need outboard amps to get all 11 "channels". I went with the x-100 for the Center because it has provision for a second pair of output connectors for my 8 ohm identical top and bottom center speakers, without fussing about whether to parallel or series them. In the Anthem lineup, I would be looking at the MRX 1120 and I would have to add another amp, because there are only 7 on-board amps. I have some pauses for reflection:
1) My room (mancave) has the right side completely open to another room, so the side reflections will be very different, L to R. The Yamaha YPAO in the 3050 claims to have the ability to compensate for reflections. Denon advocates claim a similar capability for Audessy. I wonder if they really are effective and how ARC deals with this.
2) The Denon has a paid upgrade to Auro. In the Auro thread, and in the recent article in Sound & Vision, many people prefer the Auro upmix for music and some for it's upmix for movies, as well, compared to the Atmos upmix (I'm referring to the artificial upmix, here, not Native Atmos or Auro). In the Yamaha, some (including Scott Wilkinson) prefer the Yamaha DSP Sci-Fi up mix to the Atmos upmix. I think that upmix performance is very important given the back catalog of non-native Auro and DTS:X titles and streaming in 5.1 for the forseeable future. It appears that there is no path to add Auro to the Anthem, so one is left with the "stock" Auro and DTS:X upmixes. We have no idea how the DTS:X upmix will sound with 5.1 material so all of this rambling is just that: rambling about imponderables, at this time.

Would anyone care to comment on my ramblings. Many, if not all of you, are fully convinced of the superiority of Anthem, while I'm just trying to learn and contemplating my first foray into "higher-end".

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post #140 of 10188 Old 09-29-2015, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post
only the back and height channels, which normally don't use as much power. The front and surround amps are the same as before.
I won't disagree that the height channels don't need as much power. However, just out of curiosity, are all channels equally powered but just using different amplification topology, or are the heights not able to supply as much power? And the surround backs are included in this? So the 1120 uses 5 channels of amplification that are identical to the x10 series, and 6 channels of class D amplification? Mind you, I'm not worried or upset about the choices made, just curious about the implementation.

Does this also apply to the surround back channels of the 720 - ie, 5 channels of class A/B as before, and the two surround back channels are class D? Thanks.

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post #141 of 10188 Old 09-29-2015, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
@bkeeler and @blastermaster
Thanks for your comments. I don't care about streaming or bluetooth connectivity. I do care about the new Dolby Atmos and DTS:X 3-D codecs. I have an 11.2 speaker setup now, planning on using the Yamaha FH and RH as the .4 speakers. I have a pair of AT 44DA Atmos-enabled speakers upfiring to 9' concrete ceiling available, if I feel the need for a pair of the .4 speakers to be an "overhead". I'm currently using Emotiva X-200 and x-100 amps for the mains and center, as preparation for a new receiver that will need outboard amps to get all 11 "channels". I went with the x-100 for the Center because it has provision for a second pair of output connectors for my 8 ohm identical top and bottom center speakers, without fussing about whether to parallel or series them. In the Anthem lineup, I would be looking at the MRX 1120 and I would have to add another amp, because there are only 7 on-board amps. I have some pauses for reflection:
1) My room (mancave) has the right side completely open to another room, so the side reflections will be very different, L to R. The Yamaha YPAO in the 3050 claims to have the ability to compensate for reflections. Denon advocates claim a similar capability for Audessy. I wonder if they really are effective and how ARC deals with this.
2) The Denon has a paid upgrade to Auro. In the Auro thread, and in the recent article in Sound & Vision, many people prefer the Auro upmix for music and some for it's upmix for movies, as well, compared to the Atmos upmix (I'm referring to the artificial upmix, here, not Native Atmos or Auro). In the Yamaha, some (including Scott Wilkinson) prefer the Yamaha DSP Sci-Fi up mix to the Atmos upmix. I think that upmix performance is very important given the back catalog of non-native Auro and DTS:X titles and streaming in 5.1 for the forseeable future. It appears that there is no path to add Auro to the Anthem, so one is left with the "stock" Auro and DTS:X upmixes. We have no idea how the DTS:X upmix will sound with 5.1 material so all of this rambling is just that: rambling about imponderables, at this time.

Would anyone care to comment on my ramblings. Many, if not all of you, are fully convinced of the superiority of Anthem, while I'm just trying to learn and contemplating my first foray into "higher-end".
1. The MRX 1120 does have 11 channels of amplification.
2. I wouldn't be concerned about Auro. Despite being in the game as long as Dolby Atmos (for which many titles have been released over the past year in theaters and on blu ray, and many more are in the pipeline), Auro has one or two titles on blu ray (the same ones they've had for a year now) and none in the pipeline. They seem to have lost traction entirely and IMO are not likely to be a significant player going forward. Some have thought that the Auromatic upmixer is better than DSU (Dolby Surround Upmixer included on Atmos AVRs) on music, but the reading I've done suggests that for movies DSU is at least the equal of Auromatic, if not superior, for most people.

It is significant that all the major AVR manufacturers are including DTS:X in their products for the 2015-2016 model year, but Denon is the only one that has offered an Auro upgrade. And I don't know if their new line for this year will offer it anyway (it's not listed for the X4200 which is the replacement for the X4100 that allowed the upgrade).

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post #142 of 10188 Old 09-29-2015, 10:32 AM
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It is significant that all the major AVR manufacturers are including DTS:X in their products for the 2015-2016 model year, but Denon is the only one that has offered an Auro upgrade. And I don't know if their new line for this year will offer it anyway (it's not listed for the X4200 which is the replacement for the X4100 that allowed the upgrade).
Note that the AVR-X4200W Owner’s Manual does in fact contain config, etc., references to the Auro3D Upgrade .


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post #143 of 10188 Old 09-29-2015, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
@bkeeler and @blastermaster
Thanks for your comments. I don't care about streaming or bluetooth connectivity. I do care about the new Dolby Atmos and DTS:X 3-D codecs. I have an 11.2 speaker setup now, planning on using the Yamaha FH and RH as the .4 speakers. I have a pair of AT 44DA Atmos-enabled speakers upfiring to 9' concrete ceiling available, if I feel the need for a pair of the .4 speakers to be an "overhead". I'm currently using Emotiva X-200 and x-100 amps for the mains and center, as preparation for a new receiver that will need outboard amps to get all 11 "channels". I went with the x-100 for the Center because it has provision for a second pair of output connectors for my 8 ohm identical top and bottom center speakers, without fussing about whether to parallel or series them. In the Anthem lineup, I would be looking at the MRX 1120 and I would have to add another amp, because there are only 7 on-board amps. I have some pauses for reflection:
1) My room (mancave) has the right side completely open to another room, so the side reflections will be very different, L to R. The Yamaha YPAO in the 3050 claims to have the ability to compensate for reflections. Denon advocates claim a similar capability for Audessy. I wonder if they really are effective and how ARC deals with this.
2) The Denon has a paid upgrade to Auro. In the Auro thread, and in the recent article in Sound & Vision, many people prefer the Auro upmix for music and some for it's upmix for movies, as well, compared to the Atmos upmix (I'm referring to the artificial upmix, here, not Native Atmos or Auro). In the Yamaha, some (including Scott Wilkinson) prefer the Yamaha DSP Sci-Fi up mix to the Atmos upmix. I think that upmix performance is very important given the back catalog of non-native Auro and DTS:X titles and streaming in 5.1 for the forseeable future. It appears that there is no path to add Auro to the Anthem, so one is left with the "stock" Auro and DTS:X upmixes. We have no idea how the DTS:X upmix will sound with 5.1 material so all of this rambling is just that: rambling about imponderables, at this time.

Would anyone care to comment on my ramblings. Many, if not all of you, are fully convinced of the superiority of Anthem, while I'm just trying to learn and contemplating my first foray into "higher-end".
It sounds like I have a similar setup as you. I have a room opening up to the right of my screen. It was amazing that I didn't notice it before but I had an audiophile friend come over and he noticed that the sound stopped at the left wall, whereas the sound kept going into the other room on the right (if that makes sense). What I did was start into room treatments. I put 2'x4'x4" acoustical panels in the room, first and foremost at the first reflection point on my left wall. The result? All of a sudden the sound seemed to go beyond the wall. Totally weird, but awesome. FWIW, I currently have an Onkyo 806 which, despite how it messes with my "passthrough" video image, sounds awesome. Audyssey seems to do a good job of making things sound cohesive/coherent despite the room configuration. I'm sure ARC would do a better job, though.

I don't care about Auro. Even if it's marginally better for upmixes, I think you would be better off with the better amps and room correction that Anthem provides. I'm running an Emotiva XPA-3 for my mains, XPA-2 for my two front ceiling speakers (they're 16 ohm, what the hell?), and Outlaw 7700 for the rest of the channels. I may even be able to get away with an MRX 520 if it has 11 channels of processing. Anyone know how many channels the 520 processes?
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post #144 of 10188 Old 09-29-2015, 11:49 AM
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@bkeeler10 and @blastermaster
Thanks for your comments. I misremembered the receiver I preferred. I should have said MRX-720. Since I already have 3 channels of excellent amplifiers, it seems like it would be more economical to use the 3 I have and add a fourth, rather than pay close to $1.2K more for the 11 onboard amps of the MRX 1120 (doh--the numbers say it all, don't they).

I've done a lot of Googling of Anthem in the meanwhile and see that it's highly regarded, and ARC seems far superior, with it's corrected mic and PC processing power.

I've just ordered a roll of mass-weighted 1/8" PVC to hang on my left wall, which should dampen the Left side reflections.

I hear what you are both saying about Auro. I'll wait until the MRX-720 is available, and DTS:X is out in the wild before deciding. I've lived with the RX-Z11 for many years, now; using workarounds like dual output Blu-ray players. Won't hurt to go awhile, yet.

JVC RS600 Chad-callibrated, 120" 1.3g in Batcave HT, Denon X8500 Polk LSiM703 fronts,
RTi-12 rears, LSiM 706 center, Monitor 40 Heights, Monitor 60 FW, Emotiva E1 sides,
LSiC CH, Infinity 6" VOG. 4X 12" subs w/mini DSP on sub 1 and nearfield 18" from sub 2.

Last edited by Ted99; 09-29-2015 at 11:57 AM. Reason: correction
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post #145 of 10188 Old 09-29-2015, 01:17 PM
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^ IIRC, [email protected] said a while back that amp assignment was very limited on the MRX 720. The height channels must be driven by external amplification. So you can't use your three channels of amplification to drive the three front speakers and reassign the built-in amps for those channels to the heights, for example. Some other AVRs (the higher-end Denons, for example) will allow you to do this, but not the Anthem.

IOW, if you want to do a 7.1.4 configuration, the first four channels of outboard amplification must drive the overhead speakers. From there, any additional outboard amps can drive any of the other speakers. Just something to know so you're not surprised later.

System
Transducers: Revel Concerta2 F36 (3), M16 (4); Tannoy AMS 6DC (4); Rythmik F18 (2)
Front end: NAD T758 v3; Outlaw Model 7125
Sources: Panasonic UB820; Oppo BDP-103; Toshiba HD-A2
Projection: JVC DLA-RS440; Seymour CenterStage UF retractable 110" 2.35:1

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post #146 of 10188 Old 09-29-2015, 01:41 PM
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I received a message from Chris GTL today and I am so inept getting around this forum, I can't find the original message or the guide he so kindly referenced. I can't find him in members because I frankly don't get the forums and how to navigate around them.
Chris If you could communicate with me personally to help me find the guide you were kind enough to put together , it would be appreciated. Right now , it's a mystery to me??????
Keith

when you always do what you've alway done, you always get what you always got.
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post #147 of 10188 Old 09-29-2015, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post
I won't disagree that the height channels don't need as much power. However, just out of curiosity, are all channels equally powered but just using different amplification topology, or are the heights not able to supply as much power? And the surround backs are included in this?
Yes, the first five channels are from existing MRX series and the remaining two (MRX 720) or six (MRX 1120) channels are 50W class D. In case anyone has seen the Paradigm PW Amp at pre-launch demos, the circuit is similar:

www.paradigm.com/wireless/index.php

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post #148 of 10188 Old 09-29-2015, 02:50 PM
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Anyone know how many channels the 520 processes?
MRX 520 - 5.1 pre-outs, 5-ch amp, Ethernet
MRX 720 - 7.1.4 pre-outs, 7-ch amp, Play-Fi, Ethernet and WLAN
MRX 1120 - 7.1.4 pre-outs, 11-ch amp, Play-Fi, Ethernet and WLAN
AVM 60 - 7.1.4 pre-outs, Play-Fi, Ethernet and WLAN

MRX 520 has tri-core 32-bit DSP, the rest have quad though this makes no difference to per-channel ARC handling. Same HDMI/HDCP/video switching all around except that the models with Play-Fi also get a front HDMI/MHL input (all have one on the rear). Pricing tba at Cedia.

The most important noise floor is in your head. Always remember to protect your hearing.
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post #149 of 10188 Old 09-29-2015, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post
^ IIRC, [email protected] said a while back that amp assignment was very limited on the MRX 720. The height channels must be driven by external amplification. So you can't use your three channels of amplification to drive the three front speakers and reassign the built-in amps for those channels to the heights, for example. Some other AVRs (the higher-end Denons, for example) will allow you to do this, but not the Anthem.

IOW, if you want to do a 7.1.4 configuration, the first four channels of outboard amplification must drive the overhead speakers. From there, any additional outboard amps can drive any of the other speakers. Just something to know so you're not surprised later.
If this is true this receiver just dropped off my list. Why would I power ceiling speakers over FL, FR, and C with my 200watt/channel external amp. That makes no damn sense.
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post #150 of 10188 Old 09-29-2015, 07:07 PM
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^ Since all channels have pre-outs you can power the three fronts with the external amps, surround and back with internal amps, and add a 4-channel amp for the heights. There are many options and it may be best to talk to a dealer because search results show a lot more 4-channel car amps than multiroom amps that work just as well for height speakers.

Our PVA 4 is another option though intended more for systems that use separates all around.

The most important noise floor is in your head. Always remember to protect your hearing.

Last edited by Nick @ Anthem; 09-29-2015 at 07:10 PM.
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