Owner's Thread for Anthem 60, 720 and 1120 Receivers - Page 96 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2851 of 8167 Old 12-18-2016, 07:44 AM
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Do we have to manually adjust the sound setting (on the receiver) to DTS:X or Dolby Atmos when watching a film, or if I'm selected on DSU by default, will it switch to that codec itself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by e30cabrio View Post
I had no issues updating, as far as ARC, I installed it's update, ran the calibration on my existing file & uploaded it to the 720 & said the resulting file.
Do you notice any changes in the graphs in your file? Just curious. I'm away from home for the weekend, and won't be able to do this until later tonight.

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post #2852 of 8167 Old 12-18-2016, 07:48 AM
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I didn't compare them, sorry.

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post #2853 of 8167 Old 12-18-2016, 07:52 AM
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Same here update was flawless. I'm coming from an MRX 300 and have only had my MRX 720 a few days, but so far it's perfect. No HDMI hands hack issues, no popping, static or anything. I've run it through a bunch of music and movies and ran the latest updates for ARC and the MRX firmware. So far so good.

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post #2854 of 8167 Old 12-18-2016, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
I updated the Anthem software. The notes on the recent one states that it addressed an issue people had with the back IR input, but it technically addressed the "front" as well. I was surprised when it happened, because I was simply switching activities and it changed HDMI sources on the Anthem without any expectation of that happening.

Glad they resolved it!
Thank you very much. Updating the firmware on the Anthem fixed my Logitech issue.
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post #2855 of 8167 Old 12-18-2016, 02:20 PM
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Hey guys. Some quick questions. Just got the 720 and I am coming from a 300.

With the 300 you were able to go into each input and adjust the bass to your liking. So each input could be adjusted at different db. I can't find that with the 720. It seems if you raise or lower the bass for 1 input, it does it for all. Is it possible to do each?

Second, what do I set up each surround format (last used etc) for each input to have all the speakers work in surround regardless if the material is in stereo or only 5.1? So essentially able to use 7.1 if the movie is actually only 5.1, or to take advantage of the heights?

Right now I am only doing 7.1 but I would also like to know for when I have my heights in.

Thanks for the info.
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post #2856 of 8167 Old 12-18-2016, 03:39 PM
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Most receivers on the market don't have "on the fly " speaker profiles. Anthem owners can have a speaker profile for Just Dobly Atmos , and another for just DTS:X. The speaker layout for the two are the same but its just assigned differently in the avr. So for dolby atmos I use TF+TR speaker position ( which is Front in-ceiling and Back in-ceiling speaker placement with anthem ) , and for DTS:X the speaker position on my ceiling is the same for atmos , but the speaker placement inside anthem I use front on-wall and rear on-wall , which is the FH+RH speaker postion.
Its kinda confusing but here is a post originally started by me but other avs members chimed in for a better explanation. Just start with this post and continue to read from there. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post42367777 .

So the next time you calibrate your system make one profile for dolby atmos using front-ceiling and rear in-ceiling , and make another speaker profile for dts:x using front on-wall and rear on-wall. Switch profiles according to what immersive audio format you are using.

Last edited by HT-Eman; 12-18-2016 at 03:49 PM.
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post #2857 of 8167 Old 12-19-2016, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT-Eman View Post
Most receivers on the market don't have "on the fly " speaker profiles. Anthem owners can have a speaker profile for Just Dobly Atmos , and another for just DTS:X. The speaker layout for the two are the same but its just assigned differently in the avr. So for dolby atmos I use TF+TR speaker position ( which is Front in-ceiling and Back in-ceiling speaker placement with anthem ) , and for DTS:X the speaker position on my ceiling is the same for atmos , but the speaker placement inside anthem I use front on-wall and rear on-wall , which is the FH+RH speaker postion.
Its kinda confusing but here is a post originally started by me but other avs members chimed in for a better explanation. Just start with this post and continue to read from there. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post42367777 .

So the next time you calibrate your system make one profile for dolby atmos using front-ceiling and rear in-ceiling , and make another speaker profile for dts:x using front on-wall and rear on-wall. Switch profiles according to what immersive audio format you are using.
Has Anthem confirmed this? Has anyone asked Anthem what the assumed positions are? Anthem calls the available positions:
  • Front In-Ceiling
  • Front Dolby
  • Front On-Wall
  • Middle In-Ceiling
  • Middle Dolby
  • Back In-Ceiling
  • Back Dolby
  • Back On-Wall


They don't appear to actually use the Dolby or DTS terminology.
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post #2858 of 8167 Old 12-19-2016, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Has Anthem confirmed this? Has anyone asked Anthem what the assumed positions are? Anthem calls the available positions:
  • Front In-Ceiling
  • Front Dolby
  • Front On-Wall
  • Middle In-Ceiling
  • Middle Dolby
  • Back In-Ceiling
  • Back Dolby
  • Back On-Wall


They don't appear to actually use the Dolby or DTS terminology.
The front height ( FH ) and rear height ( RH ) is obviously the front on-wall and back on-wall. The top front ( TF ) and top rear ( TR ) are the front in-ceiling and rear in-ceiling . Of course top middle ( TM ) is the middle in-ceiling . When using dolby enable speakers the choices are front dolby , back dolby , and middle dolby.
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post #2859 of 8167 Old 12-19-2016, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT-Eman View Post
The front height ( FH ) and rear height ( RH ) is obviously the front on-wall and back on-wall. The top front ( TF ) and top rear ( TR ) are the front in-ceiling and rear in-ceiling . Of course top middle ( TM ) is the middle in-ceiling . When using dolby enable speakers the choices are front dolby , back dolby , and middle dolby.
I understand that's the "obvious" mapping, and that it seems logical to "assume" that is how it's mapped. I'm asking if anyone has actually confirmed it with Anthem, that they are actually mapping them like that (by name), or are they mapping them based on elevations (rather than names)?

Eg does "Front On-Wall" mapped to "Front Height", or was Anthem "smarter" and mapped "Front On-Wall" to the speaker with +/-45 degree elevation.
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post #2860 of 8167 Old 12-19-2016, 11:11 AM
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Prefer the Anthem labels to the Dolby nomenclature, since Anthem puts the location description in the name. The typical consumer won't know the difference between Front Height and Top Front. Easier to figure that out when those same speaker locations are labeled Front On-Wall and Front In-Ceiling.
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post #2861 of 8167 Old 12-19-2016, 01:27 PM
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So I still haven't been home to do the update or to look at it, are people saying that you CAN set the DTS:X speaker configuration (regardless of the names used) different than an ATMOS configuration, or do these need to be changed/set manually whenever switching between the two formats?

Sorry if this has already been covered. I've been trying to read on my phone and may have missed it.
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post #2862 of 8167 Old 12-19-2016, 01:55 PM
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I've done some extensive testing in the past couple of days and I don't think I will use Neural X at all, obviously will use DTS:X with native movies but if I could I'd stick with Atmos as well. Dolby wins this round in my books hands down.
DTS sounds a bit tinny and lifeless in comparison and is too aggressive and inaccurate with with surround channel assignments it almost feels like they were trying too hard to impress. Atmos/DSU just creates that lovely bubble around me and sound stage is much wider and well defined, DTS lacks clarity and dynamics also in comparison. Still sounds good but not compared to Dolby unfortunately.

I love testing with games as they reveal any weakness or strength in the surrounds. They certainly have this time too, often times when effects that were supposed to be on the sides they were assigned to the heights (simply wrong) and often when there were deep bass effects (correctly assigned in DSU) there was NONE in Neural X instead it was all going to the heights again. Quite disappointed. So either it was a rush job (despite the extensive delays) and needs a lot more work or simply that's how it is.

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post #2863 of 8167 Old 12-19-2016, 02:36 PM
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Hi Gang!

New Anthem MRX 520 owner here. Came from an HK 254.

I wish I had something more to post here but this AVR just fit right in with my new Samsung KS8000 and not an issue to report.
After running ARC, I am just blown away at how this thing has completely changed the attitude my old Paradigm Studio V2's have.

I do have ONE question about CEC though. The KS8000 does not specifically have an entry for the 520 in its remote control database but it does turn off and change volume with the TV's minimal remote, so that's good.

But...should be able to turn ON the 520 with the KS8000 remote as well? Can't seem to find the right Anthem codes on the remote that allow it to be turned on with the TV.

Minor thing, no big deal but I wanted to join the conversation. :-)

Test,

Mpray1983- "User error due to sneeze or fart occurred during measurement"
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post #2864 of 8167 Old 12-19-2016, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
No. My update experience was flawless. I would do a reset and start over.
Thank you. System Reset fixed it! Also gave me a chance to rerun ARC with the updated software. Everything is sounding better than ever.
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post #2865 of 8167 Old 12-19-2016, 06:19 PM
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Thank you. System Reset fixed it! Also gave me a chance to rerun ARC with the updated software. Everything is sounding better than ever.
Awesome!
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post #2866 of 8167 Old 12-19-2016, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
I've done some extensive testing in the past couple of days and I don't think I will use Neural X at all, obviously will use DTS:X with native movies but if I could I'd stick with Atmos as well. Dolby wins this round in my books hands down.
DTS sounds a bit tinny and lifeless in comparison and is too aggressive and inaccurate with with surround channel assignments it almost feels like they were trying too hard to impress. Atmos/DSU just creates that lovely bubble around me and sound stage is much wider and well defined, DTS lacks clarity and dynamics also in comparison. Still sounds good but not compared to Dolby unfortunately.

I love testing with games as they reveal any weakness or strength in the surrounds. They certainly have this time too, often times when effects that were supposed to be on the sides they were assigned to the heights (simply wrong) and often when there were deep bass effects (correctly assigned in DSU) there was NONE in Neural X instead it was all going to the heights again. Quite disappointed. So either it was a rush job (despite the extensive delays) and needs a lot more work or simply that's how it is.
Hello Bandyka,
I am afraid I have to disagree with you. I don't know if it is that fact that I have Dolby up firing speakers but of all the Movies I have re watched that are DTS master originally, sound amazing with Neural X! Not that it is better than Dolby but much different. DTS's sound is much wider, and yes more aggressive with the hight effect. I do not prefer one over the other. It is great to have both😬! Just watched The Force Awakens in Nueral and it has never sounded better on my system!

Regards,
Jeff
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post #2867 of 8167 Old 12-19-2016, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post
Hello Bandyka,
I am afraid I have to disagree with you. I don't know if it is that fact that I have Dolby up firing speakers but of all the Movies I have re watched that are DTS master originally, sound amazing with Neural X! Not that it is better than Dolby but much different. DTS's sound is much wider, and yes more aggressive with the hight effect. I do not prefer one over the other. It is great to have both😬! Just watched The Force Awakens in Nueral and it has never sounded better on my system!

Regards,
Jeff
Well all that matters is that you are happy I am experiencing completely the opposite the Dolby sound stage is wider and fuller and more dynamic.
Agree they are different perhaps that is why you like them and I don't
At the end of the day what matters is what sounds good to your ears and that we are spoiled for choice so we are not forced either way.

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post #2868 of 8167 Old 12-19-2016, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post
Hello Bandyka,
I am afraid I have to disagree with you. I don't know if it is that fact that I have Dolby up firing speakers but of all the Movies I have re watched that are DTS master originally, sound amazing with Neural X! Not that it is better than Dolby but much different. DTS's sound is much wider, and yes more aggressive with the hight effect. I do not prefer one over the other. It is great to have both😬! Just watched The Force Awakens in Nueral and it has never sounded better on my system!

Regards,
Jeff
Given that I am currently a 3.1 channel guy (LCR + SW), is there any benefit to Dolby Surround vs. DTS Neural:X in sound alone?

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post #2869 of 8167 Old 12-20-2016, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
Given that I am currently a 3.1 channel guy (LCR + SW), is there any benefit to Dolby Surround vs. DTS Neural:X in sound alone?
Perhaps not much but it may widen the sound stage.

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post #2870 of 8167 Old 12-20-2016, 01:30 AM
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Yesterday, with a comparison of some dts Neural (direct / non-direct) and DSU, for your reference

2014 DTS demo:
Dolby surround low-frequency density and solidity is better, DTS Neural: X ceiling channel sense and the amount of more
Surround positioning a little better
DSU sound pressure seems a little bigger than dts neural .

Dts neural (direct / non-direct), direct brings relatively large volume So feel non-direct seems weaker due to process some message to the ceiling channel , but surrounded by a better sense.

Based on the use of the sky channel, so I changed back to use non-direct

And then try ONKYO DOLBY ATMOS DEMO DISC, found that Dolby HD can not be mixed with dts neural
Only the DSU can be used

Dts HD is dts neural and DSU can be used

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post #2871 of 8167 Old 12-20-2016, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Chen View Post
Yesterday, with a comparison of some dts Neural (direct / non-direct) and DSU, for your reference

2014 DTS demo:
Dolby surround low-frequency density and solidity is better, DTS Neural: X ceiling channel sense and the amount of more
Surround positioning a little better
DSU sound pressure seems a little bigger than dts neural .

Dts neural (direct / non-direct), direct brings relatively large volume So feel non-direct seems weaker due to process some message to the ceiling channel , but surrounded by a better sense.

Based on the use of the sky channel, so I changed back to use non-direct

And then try ONKYO DOLBY ATMOS DEMO DISC, found that Dolby HD can not be mixed with dts neural
Only the DSU can be used

Dts HD is dts neural and DSU can be used
Native formats cannot be up-converted either way. You need to test with either DTS:X demos or Atmos demos for native support.

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post #2872 of 8167 Old 12-20-2016, 07:02 AM
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Just finished my audition from my friends individual HT room.
With the updated DTS:X of AVM60, the first impression comming to my ears were massive details from the sky and also the clarity and accuracy tracktion of sound movement. The ARC update seems to improve the low & high frequency quality. You could distinguish much more layers of low FQ and much more refine for high FQ. Overall, the long waiting is worthy.
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post #2873 of 8167 Old 12-20-2016, 10:03 AM
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Just watched the DTS:X movie The Last Witch Hunter and the sound was good and immersive.

I did my own comparison between DSU and Dts Neural X with the movie Transformers : The Revenge of the Fallen. ( This is good demo material up until side swipe kills the deceptacon ). Both sounded good but with Neural X the low freq doesnt seem to be full. With DSU there was a fullness to the front soundstage. So far dsu sounds better with my setup.
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post #2874 of 8167 Old 12-20-2016, 01:41 PM
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Hi
Quick question. I have MRX-720 but only have 5.1 setup as I don't have ceiling speakers. Noticed after firmware update when pressing mode there are three options:
Dolby Digitial
Dolby Surround
Neural X
There happened to be DD broadcast at the time.

So am I to assume that if there is native DD, that it will play DD? And that Dolby Surround and Neural X are simulated when there is only a 2.0 source?
Thanks
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post #2875 of 8167 Old 12-20-2016, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
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...does "Front On-Wall" mapped to "Front Height", or was Anthem "smarter" and mapped "Front On-Wall" to the speaker with +/-45 degree elevation.
Receiver & pre-pro manufacturers, like Anthem, don't get to change the way Dolby & DTS codecs work. Those algorithms are coded to silicon by DSP chipmakers. Anthem buys those chipsets and makes them play nice with their receivers & pre-pros. At each step, Dolby & DTS certify that those codecs are working as intended.

Atmos mapping of audio objects is room centric, using Cartesian (x,y,z) coordinates. DTS:X rendering is listener-centric, using polar (azimuth & elevation) coordinates. Licensees, like Anthem, can't change that. Despite those differences in decoding, both formats have several speaker locations in common, making it easy to do a compromise layout with very little compromise.
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post #2876 of 8167 Old 12-20-2016, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by HT-Eman View Post
Both sounded good but with Neural X the low freq doesnt seem to be full. With DSU there wall a fullness to the front soundstage. So far dsu sound better with my setup.
Exactly my thoughts and experience.
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JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
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post #2877 of 8167 Old 12-20-2016, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Exactly my thoughts and experience.


I have both the Atmos demo discs and the DTS demo disc now and it would be hard to say one is better than the other. They are so similar. It's nice to have a receiver than can decode both of them.

I recommend Planet Earth II upmixed to neural X!
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post #2878 of 8167 Old 12-20-2016, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Receiver & pre-pro manufacturers, like Anthem, don't get to change the way Dolby & DTS codecs work. Those algorithms are coded to silicon by DSP chipmakers. Anthem buys those chipsets and makes them play nice with their receivers & pre-pros. At each step, Dolby & DTS certify that those codecs are working as intended.
Of course, but Anthem should have some control over the mapping of the text they display in the setup menus, to the enumerations that the Dolby/DTS codecs accept for speaker locations, especially when the setup menu text doesn't clearly/directly match Dolby/DTS's nomenclature.
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post #2879 of 8167 Old 12-20-2016, 09:19 PM
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Anyone know why they choose to label 5.1 on the Display as 3/2 instead of 5.1? Just to be different? Anyway to change it?
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post #2880 of 8167 Old 12-20-2016, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbo View Post
Anyone know why they choose to label 5.1 on the Display as 3/2 instead of 5.1? Just to be different? Anyway to change it?
As a math teacher, I can't agree that 3/2 = 5.1, though if you said 1.5 then I think we can start the argument.
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