The "OFFICIAL" Yamaha 1050/2050/3050 Owner's thread. - Page 147 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4381 of 10692 Old 02-04-2016, 08:49 PM
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I also thought it was worthwhile for people who already own the 2050 to have another option beside buying a 3050.

If they just listen to everyone else they're going to spend a lot more than they need to if their goal is a 5.1.4 completely amped with separates.

So far no one has come up with a single reason why it's a bad idea or wont work. I keep asking, but get no serious answers.

It's just a bunch of "you're doing it wrong" without even giving it any consideratrion. It might be different if i was trying to the same thing with a cheapo Schosch level converter, but AC makes some great products and it's all going in an equipment rack in another room anyways.
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post #4382 of 10692 Old 02-04-2016, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faulkton View Post

5.1.4 all amped on a 2050.

I keep beating this dead horse, because everyone gets the advice that you cannot do exactly what I'm trying to do. When in fact, you most certainly can with a purchase of a relatively inexpensive line level converter. Topping it all off I also have an AUX input and an extra for channels to do with what I want in the future.


However the holier than thou know it alls in this thread seem to think it can't be done no matter what and anyone who wants to try is better off with a Geek Squad installed sound bar... :-)
I have faith in my solution, a lot more faith than I do in some unknown opinions with people who don't even bother to read the entire thread :-)


Perhaps you need a reality check, you started with 5.1.4
and that's what you still have after 3 pages of B.S.

You went on and on with MULTIPLE posts over several pages thinking you could outsmart everyone here
and turn your 9 channel 2050 into an 11 channel 7.1.4 Atmos system with an external amp

I tried multiple times to explain your flawed logic.

In the end you admit you really are limited to 5.1.4 with the 2050...so you gained nothing!


Recap:

Quote:
Originally Posted by faulkton View Post
So that would mean that the surround rear pre out on the a2050 is indeed the surround rear? So I could at least add and amp surround rear speakers and have a 7.4.4 with only the 2050?

I thought I asked about this before and was told the 2050 couldn't do this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
The answer is still no

Both AVR's have 9 internal amps..but there are still Significant differences
(otherwise the 3050 would be nearly identical for $400-$500 more for just 10w/ch)

The 2050 has 9 channel processing, but only 7.1 pre-outs for zone 1
(2 additional pre-outs are for additional zones only) best you can do is 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 in zone 1

Only the 3050 has 11 channel processing capability and 11.1 pre-outs
...But having just 9 internal amps, the additional 2 channels must be powered by an external amp.
7.1.4 = 7 speakers , sub, 4 height/presence = 11 channel processing

from an earlier post a few pages back...

of the 11 speaker jacks, only 9 are active at once
adding an amp to the rear surround pre-out eliminates your rear speaker jacks
and just moves them to an external amp....it doesn't add two additional channels.

The 3050 allows you to re-assign one (or both) zone pre-outs to an external amp to power additional height/presence channels for 7.1.4
The 2050 zone pre-outs can only be used as additional zones, They cannot add additional height/presence channels to zone 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by faulkton View Post
OK, I understand that I'll never be able to get the Atmos speakers amp. Right now I have nothing hooked to the speaker outputs on the rear surround, Running 5.1.4 all off the 2050.

So if I'm not using the rear surround speaker jacks, wouldn't they pre OUT still have the rear surround information to feed to an amplifier?

Basically I think that I'm going to go with a couple of Emotiva monoblock for my left right, and then amping the center and surrounds from a 7 channel amp. That would still leave the rear surround pre out unused I would think I could add some rear surround speakers and amplified them off the 7 channel.

Thanks for being patient it's a little complicated, would it help if I had another receiver? I have an older Yamaha Rx v 867 that is just sitting around. If I could use that in any way that would allow me to do what I'm trying to do I definitely would. Otherwise I guess I'm just not going to use for of the three channels on a 7 channel amp.

Like I said though, it's hard for me to pay the same price for a 5 channel made in China amp that's fairly new with unknown longevity, when I can go with b stock 7100 that's been around for awhile and is made by ATI. It just seems like something I could use in the future if I can't use it now. Is there anything wrong with that thinking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
2050 will only Process 9 channels , period ... that means 7 + 2 (or 5 + 4)
....there's no way to make it an Atmos 7.4 system. ( 7 + 4 =11)

You can add 30 speakers to your 2050 with as many amps as you want
....but its still only capable of 9 distinct/discrete channels of processing


If you are not currently using the surround backs,
that output has automatically been re-assigned to run your 5.1.4 setup ( 5 + 4 = 9)

You cannot re-assign the rear surround (speakers or pre-outs) to act as Height/Presence Atmos Speakers
That would require and extra set of assignable pre-outs (Like the 3050 Has)

The .4 in an Atmos track needs an AVR or Pre/Pro capable of 11 channel PROCESSING if you have 7 bed speakers in use
The 2050 can only process 9 channels ( 7 + 2 ) OR (5 + 4)

The 3050 can Process 11 channels ( 7 + 4)

Sorry but I just can't put it any more simple than that
If the 2050 could do everything the 3050 does there would be no need for Both Models in the line up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by faulkton View Post
I am still curious what the surround rear pre out will actually output of you have the 2050 in 5.1.4 mode. nothing? Has anyone actually tried?


Maybe if I run arc output to a second avr the 2050 can run atmos only, center and surround preout to an outlaw 7100 and then run rear surround from the yamaha 867 I have laying around.

Buying a 3050 is not an option right now as I've spent way too much on this upgrade since I fell down the rabbit hole. This whole thing started when I replace a really old IPS lg tv. Now I have a Samsung J s 9500, A 2050, Tannoy Revolution XT 8f Towers and XT center, and focal for Atmos and side Surround, two svs PC plus subs and two boston acoustic msubwoofer.

I was looking at ATI or Audiocontrol savoy for my amp, but the price was just a little out of my league. For less than half of the Audiocontrol I just ordered two Emotiva XPA 100 and outlaw 7100. Plus all the stupid RCA and remote trigger cables. Oh and a bunch of white speaker wire and regular speaker wire. Let's just say I'm Way over my $500 budget I started with a few months ago.

Ultimately though, at a bare minimum I'm going to have a pretty kick ass v 24.4 at most setup as a worst-case scenario. Not bad IMO and if I can find any possible way, besides buying a new 3050, to add rear surrounds with a second AVR or anything I'm going to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
Picture a Motherboard with 9 audio processing chips
Those chips can lead to 11 potential output channels, BUT only 9 can function at the same time.
(2 channels will ALWAYS be disabled)

YOU can ONLY turn on the processing capability of the Rear Surround Output (pre-out or speaker)
IF you turn OFF one of your Atmos outputs (reducing it to 7.2 instead of 5.4)

You simply cannot process 11 Channels of information with a 9 channel 2050 PERIOD!
it does not have the computer hardware to accomplish what you want, regardless of additional amplification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
You already have a 5.1.4 setup,
you've used all that is available to you unless you buy a new AVR


Quote:
Originally Posted by faulkton View Post

Audio elitists with poor reading comprehension ... lol.
Excuse me?
Do You really want to accuse someone else of poor reading comprehension after all that??


Then! you proceeded to propose that adding external amplification
gained you some kind of victory, while throwing away all internal amplification for those 5.1.4 channels
(....that most people running the 2050 are more than satisfied with)

You complain that spending more on a 3050 would have been a waste of money over the 2050
Yet you are prepared to spend substantially more for external amplification (that you may not even need),
an AudioControl converter/controller, that does nothing really different than just using the 2050's line level pre-outs to your external amplifiers without the controller in the chain.

Absolutely Baffling

and it doesn't even end there, as you say you will still eventually take a huge loss
on your 2050 and replace it with a more expensive Pre/Pro???
because the 3050 is too much for nothing gained?

Yup, you win LOL!

Was the 2050 "really"so under-powered" for your room?
...or are you just trying to justify your amplifier purchases because you already bought them
with the intention of using them to upgrade your 9 channel 2050 to an 11 channel 7.4.4 Atmos 3050 performance level?

Are your speakers so inefficient you could not reach reference SPL levels without external amplification?
Just how large is your theater and do you not run any powered subs to take care of the <80Hz frequencies?
For most people adding a couple high powered subs are more than enough to free up the AVR to drive the rest of the higher frequencies to 85+dB over 9 channels with little effort. (-20 on the AVR )

You must have one heck of a huge home theater to need that much additional power,
Perhaps massive inefficient full range speakers (set to Large) x 5 and a lack of high wattage powered sub woofers to take care of the lower frequencies?

If you really need external amplification to meet reference SPL levels
I sure hope you have a massive dedicated home theater room with a Projector and 150"+ screen
to match all that audio power, and not just a little 65" TV in a living room...

If you have a 7 channel amp and a couple monoblocks
why did you not just a buy a pre-pro in the first place?
no need for an AVR if you're not going to use the internal amps
(which are WAY more than adequate for surround/presence/atmos speakers)

Sorry, but I find it extremely hard to believe anyone needs 100 watt powered atmos speakers.



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post #4383 of 10692 Old 02-04-2016, 10:28 PM
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If you really need external amplification to meet reference SPL levels
I sure hope you have a massive dedicated home theater room with a Projector and 150"+ screen
to match all that audio power, and not just a little 65" TV in a living room...


Fair go! I've got a 65'' telly and it's HUGE I tell you HUGE.

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post #4384 of 10692 Old 02-04-2016, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faulkton View Post
Is there any way to get atmos preouts, to amp them, on the A2050? Doesnt look like that is possible Unless maybe the zone two pre0outs can be reassigned to Atmos/height speakers? Please tell me that would work

Considering an outlaw audio 500 or a b stock 7100. I like the 7100, as it's older made in the US by ATI vs the brand new run of made in china model 5000. price and power are similar and not a factor.

I was thinking with the 7 channel i could amp surrounds, Atmos and center and use a couple of monoblocks on FR/FL and skip the internal amps on the 2050 altogether. Can this happen?

I could switch to a 7.4.2 Atmos setup, which in my room size would probably be just fine and use the other 2 channel for zone two i guess, or just not use this in this build. Just seems like a better option to have more channels for the same price for whatever the future has in mind. Nonetheless, I'd rather amp everything and leave the internal amps for various zones.

Thoughts?
Nice to skip my first post.. the one that clearly states what i wanted to do.. again the poor reading comprehensive.

I was told, incorrectly, i couldnt do it. So i stated to think about tying 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 if possible. since the 2050 HAS surround rear preouts i wondered what the actually put out if anything? sorry that got you panties all bunched up lol

But this is dumb and i'm done with it. Thanks for the actual information you provided before you stopped paying attention and started hurling insults.

I'm completely satisfied i can do exactly what i set out to do, regardless of what the AVR gospel dictates and it's a good option fo anyone else on a 2050 who wants to amp eveything
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post #4385 of 10692 Old 02-04-2016, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faulkton View Post
While the 2050 is technically an amp, i dont think it is on the same level as the 7100. Sometimes I listen to music in the 2050 9 channel stereo mode, when i am not sitting in the MLP trying to get the best image ans soundstage.
I think this is one area where you are mistaken. The 2050 amplifiers are pretty damn good. While Outlaw, Imotiva and other amps in that price range can provide more power, they don't offer any added sound quality.

And the 2050 internal amplification is good for around 300-350W which if you used it just to power just your x.x.4 overhead channels, you would find that is plenty and then you wouldn't need this bizarre speaker level to line level device which is likely going to be a challenge to gain match properly.

But you can obviously do whatever you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by faulkton View Post
If they just listen to everyone else they're going to spend a lot more than they need to if their goal is a 5.1.4 completely amped with separates.
Here's the thing... no body other than you has a goal to use full external amplification for 5.1.4 with a 2050. If this was your goal, you really purchased the wrong product. I think I can safely say, you're not saving anyone in this thread anything with this bizarre idea. The people that might benefit are way ahead of you and are in the CX-A5100 owners thread using proper balanced connections not some car-audio speaker-to-line level converter.
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Last edited by virtualrain; 02-04-2016 at 10:49 PM.
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post #4386 of 10692 Old 02-04-2016, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faulkton View Post
Is there any way to get atmos preouts, to amp them, on the A2050? Doesnt look like that is possible Unless maybe the zone two pre0outs can be reassigned to Atmos/height speakers? Please tell me that would work

Considering an outlaw audio 500 or a b stock 7100. I like the 7100, as it's older made in the US by ATI vs the brand new run of made in china model 5000. price and power are similar and not a factor.

I was thinking with the 7 channel i could amp surrounds, Atmos and center and use a couple of monoblocks on FR/FL and skip the internal amps on the 2050 altogether. Can this happen?

I could switch to a 7.4.2 Atmos setup, which in my room size would probably be just fine and use the other 2 channel for zone two i guess, or just not use this in this build. Just seems like a better option to have more channels for the same price for whatever the future has in mind. Nonetheless, I'd rather amp everything and leave the internal amps for various zones.

Thoughts?
Maybe your poor reading comprehension made you leave out my first questions, the one that clearly explains what my goal was....

I was incorrectly told it couldnt be done and i started considering other options.. including 7.1.2 or 4

My ultimate goal was always amping 5.4.4 and i found out it CAN be done.

I never said i was going to sell my 2050 to buy a pre-pro anytime in the near future. In fact i said was looking for amps that would outlast this AVR. Agfain the reading comprehension.

stop jumping to conclusions and work on keeping up and reading

/end stupid internet pissing match lol
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post #4387 of 10692 Old 02-04-2016, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualrain View Post
I think this is one area where you are mistaken. The 2050 amplifiers are pretty damn good. While Outlaw, Imotiva and other amps in that price range can provide more power, they don't offer any added sound quality.

And the 2050 internal amplification is good for around 300-350W which if you used it just to power just your x.x.4 overhead channels, you would find that is plenty and then you wouldn't need this bizarre speaker level to line level device which is likely going to be a challenge to gain match properly.

But you can obviously do whatever you want.



Here's the thing... no body other than you has a goal to use full external amplification for 5.1.4 with a 2050. If this was your goal, you really purchased the wrong product. I think I can safely say, you're not saving anyone in this thread anything with this bizarre idea. The people that might benefit are way ahead of you and are in the CX-A5100 owners thread using proper balanced connections not some car-audio speaker-to-line level converter.

I would agree with using the CX-A5100 which depending on where purchased is only $200.00 more than the 2050, and actually has 11 channels of processing, which would allow 7.X.4 setup, and in the end be more worthwhile in terms of the external amps. Despite what the intent may or may have been, in my opinion, he wanted what the 3050 can do, but at the 2050 price tag. Really it can be said or termed however, but it seems that the choice of the 2050 was perhaps not a well informed purchase. Not trying to be an a-hole, just my two cents...
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post #4388 of 10692 Old 02-04-2016, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faulkton View Post
...

....

twin Emotiva xpa-100 for Tannoy revolution XT 8f

The rest will run on an Outlaw 7100, (made in the USA by ATI):

Tannoy Revolution XT center
Focal super birds for surrounds
Focal Sibs x four on the ceiling for Atmos.


5.1.4 all amped on a 2050.

...
The Tannoy Revolution XT 8f are relatively efficient speakers at 91dB/W/m. Nominal impedance is 8 ohms.

The Tannoy Revolution XT Center has also decent efficiency of 89dB/W/m and is also rated for 8 ohms.

The A2050 is rated to drive 8 ohm loads and should easily drive the Tannoys. For "solid" stereo mode, the A2050 is rated for 140W/channel from 20Hz to 20kHz and at low distortion of just 0.06%.

Might want to carry out some power requirements for the Tannoys Revolution XT 8f using the following web app: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Goal is to reach reference level of 105dB peak at the Main Listening Position (MLP) depending on a number of factors in your room. (Edit: A quick check on the Tannoy Revolution XT 8f being 2' to 4' away from the wall and the listening position under 15', the A2050 can reach peak reference level at about 133W/channel)

Note that using a sub (or better yet a pair of subs) will substantially reduce the power requirements for the Tannoys to reach reference level as the energy sapping (light dimming) low frequencies are re-directed to the more capable sub(s). Do you have a sub(s) at all in your setup? If the answer to this is no, then it would be better to start looking for some good quality subs first. This will vastly improve the sound quality compared to external amps.

Further note is that an increase of +3dB in SPL, means doubling the power requirements. I.e. going from 100W ---> 200W = +3dB. For most people, to sound twice as loud as before means increasing the SPL by +10dB. Unfortunately that means 10x the power requirement. I.e. going from 100W ---> 1,000W = +10dB. It's usually this that causes problems, hence the idea of getting a pair of good subs first.

If you haven't done so, run the automatic calibration on the Yamaha A2050 using YPAO mic that came with the unit. It will tell you the level adjustment carried out for each speaker based on where the Main Listening Position (MLP) is. Pay particular attention to the front left, center and front right speakers. If the numbers are in the negative territory, that means the amp section of the A2050 does not have to work so hard to supply power to the speakers. Report back what the numbers are to see if an external amp is really needed or not.

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post #4389 of 10692 Old 02-04-2016, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by avtoronto View Post
Your question made me realize I don't need to run an HDMI cable from the TV to the receivers's AV input. I only need to pick-up the TV's audio via ARC using the receiver's HDMI 1 out. Nonetheless, when I program the Scene, it still wants to switch the TV to its HDMI input that the receiver is connected to, rather than use the antenna input that I have the TV set to when I program the Scene setting, so I still have the same problem. Only reason for pursuing this is to give my wife single button operation (Scene 1 - BD, Scene 2- TV, etc.).
That's good, I had a feeling that you had an extra HDMI lead in there somewhere - best to take it out. I do have 'single button operation' on my system, I turn on the TV, the receiver powers up automatically, I don't need to touch the Yamaha remote control so I haven't bothered with scenes at all so far. If I turn on the Blu Ray player then input switches automatically to this and then automatically back to the TV when I turn the Blu Ray player off. Again there is no need to touch the Yamaha remote control. There is a slight delay so you have to have a little patience. When I turn off the TV the Yamaha receiver powers down automatically too.It is all done with HDMI control which will need to be activated on your external devices if it isn't active already. Is this what you are trying to achieve?

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post #4390 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 03:19 AM
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Can this end please. I feel like I just wasted part of my life reading the last couple pages.
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post #4391 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 03:56 AM
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I have 4 subs lol.

Maybe you guys haven't noticed, but it seems pretty common around here that people build systems that go beyond the bare minimum.

If I had it to do over would have gotten the 3050, but I didn't and it's way to late to return it. At this point to more about making what I have work the way I want it to.

Sorry that's so offensive to you all lmao.

Get a life and move on
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post #4392 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by chuna View Post
OK got it all working now. I was using the wrong input on the Projector as only Input 2 takes 4K and HDCP2.2. So all good!!
Did you notice a difference in PQ when it is was doing 1080p vs 4K??

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post #4393 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by faulkton View Post
I have 4 subs lol.

Maybe you guys haven't noticed, but it seems pretty common around here that people build systems that go beyond the bare minimum.

If I had it to do over would have gotten the 3050, but I didn't and it's way to late to return it. At this point to more about making what I have work the way I want it to.

Sorry that's so offensive to you all lmao.

Get a life and move on
At this point, you should just set up a Go Fund Me page for your 3050 or CX -A5100. I'll even kick in the first $20 to make this conversation go away. Not a joke.

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post #4394 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mmmmmmbacon View Post
At this point, you should just set up a Go Fund Me page for your 3050 or CX -A5100. I'll even kick in the first $20 to make this conversation go away. Not a joke.

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Shouldn't a moderator step in and put a stop to this?


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post #4395 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faulkton View Post
Nice to skip my first post.. the one that clearly states what i wanted to do.. again the poor reading comprehensive.

I was told, incorrectly, i couldnt do it. So i stated to think about tying 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 if possible. since the 2050 HAS surround rear preouts i wondered what the actually put out if anything? sorry that got you panties all bunched up lol

But this is dumb and i'm done with it. Thanks for the actual information you provided before you stopped paying attention and started hurling insults.

I'm completely satisfied i can do exactly what i set out to do, regardless of what the AVR gospel dictates and it's a good option fo anyone else on a 2050 who wants to amp eveything
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post #4396 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 07:40 AM
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Shouldn't a moderator step in and put a stop to this?


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Seems fairly harmless. Ive seen a lot worse.
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post #4397 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 07:51 AM
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Unless your budget is very tight,there's only a 400.00 difference between the 2050-3050,I have the 2050 in my ht and the 1050 in living room,sq about the same but the 2050 has more of a dynamic sound.
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post #4398 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 07:53 AM
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Ok...got good help here about my 3050 and Atmos speaker set up with external amp for presence front or rear speakers. That is, system sounding great and recently bought another amp (audio source Amp100 - good price btw).
Need to know in the configuration menu of 3050 (already selected proper set up),
if I were to hook up another amp for the front speakers, do I just leave settings as is or what?
I've read here and other forums where you just add the extra amp to the pre-out and 3050 will sense it.

My question is, can I have 2 amps one driving the rear presence and the other the front speakers and which setting to use.
Any help is appreciated.
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post #4399 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 08:36 AM
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Amp use to each Chanel is dynamic, if you will pre out to your desired channels, it should be fine. I would usually try to find best closest match from set up-->speaker manual set up-->power amp assign.

I don't think it changes processing at all. It only changes how much amperage is assigned to what channel

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post #4400 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drriddhish View Post
Amp use to each Chanel is dynamic, if you will pre out to your desired channels, it should be fine. I would usually try to find best closest match from set up-->speaker manual set up-->power amp assign.

I don't think it changes processing at all. It only changes how much amperage is assigned to what channel
thanks drriddhish that makes sense. Haven't gone back to configure menu since I did the 9ch +RP for the R.PRNS for the one amp.
Looking at menu on 3050, which combination would I use?
9ch +Front for an example?
I know there are users out there with two amps to different speakers bedside the 3050.
My objective is to have one amp drive front speakers and the other amp drive the rear precense speakers (like I have it now). And what I would select in the Power Amp Assign menu.

Thanks again for any input and like to get it up soon.
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post #4401 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 09:29 AM
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Only settings I know allows
7 ch + fp + rp
Where all presence speakers are driven by ext amp ( 4 speakers)

Other would be to try
7ch + front + 1 zone, that zone defaults to zone 3

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post #4402 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 11:55 AM
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I have the 3050. I have an outboard 5 channel amp that powers L,C,R, LS, RS. I have 2 other outboard amps that power the 2 rear surrounds and my 2 subwoofers. The 3050 is only used to power the front heights and rear Atmos modules I have. I used 9CH + front. It works fine and I am not sure the AMP assign makes much difference. I am willing to bet all the pre outs are live all the time anyway and the amp assign setting shut down certain internal amplifiers. As mentioned above I just picked the closest match for my configuration.
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post #4403 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
I have the 3050. I have an outboard 5 channel amp that powers L,C,R, LS, RS. I have 2 other outboard amps that power the 2 rear surrounds and my 2 subwoofers. The 3050 is only used to power the front heights and rear Atmos modules I have. I used 9CH + front. It works fine and I am not sure the AMP assign makes much difference. I am willing to bet all the pre outs are live all the time anyway and the amp assign setting shut down certain internal amplifiers. As mentioned above I just picked the closest match for my configuration.
Thanks, I was just in the process of reading through the manual looking for a suitable speaker configuration which will allow me to Bi-Amp my Center speaker using an external amp. I couldn't find one but you've given me the courage to go off and do it anyway! I will be using the external amp for Front and Rear Presence too.
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post #4404 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 01:55 PM
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Whoever said that all the pre-outs are always hot is correct. Of course, where amp assignment comes into play is when you need need to change how the internal amps are used. I think the best way to figure out what Amp assignment you need is to answer these three questions...

1. How many amps you need to use from the AVR to drive the main zone?
2. Which of the main-zone channels you don't need the AVR to drive?
3. Which other zone you want the AVR to drive?

This translates into the amp assign choice as follows...

<1> + <2> + <3>

Of course, not all scenarios are supported... so you may have to work with what is supported.

For example:
- 9CH+Front means you need all 9 amps from the AVR in the main zone and you don't need the AVR to drive the Front.
- 7CH+FP+RP means you need 7 amps from the AVR in the main zone and you don't need the AVR to drive the overheads.
- 7CH+Front+1Zone means you need 7 amps from the AVR in the main zone, you don't need it to drive the fronts, but you do want it to drive 1 zone.

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post #4405 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 02:27 PM
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Any reason to get the 3050 over the 2050 if I plan on going 5.2.4? Will I gain anything by getting the 3050 model?

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post #4406 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post
Unless your budget is very tight,there's only a 400.00 difference between the 2050-3050,I have the 2050 in my ht and the 1050 in living room,sq about the same but the 2050 has more of a dynamic sound.
I aleady have the 2050.. if i hadnyt impulse bought it i would be looking at the 3050....

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Rube Goldburg would be proud.
hey his **** works doesnt it

Quote:
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At this point, you should just set up a Go Fund Me page for your 3050 or CX -A5100. I'll even kick in the first $20 to make this conversation go away. Not a joke.

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https://www.gofundme.com/bsncndzg

There you go.. just for you and #AbbyDaddy .. I am sure the 3050 will be on its way in no time!!!!
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post #4407 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
The Tannoy Revolution XT 8f are relatively efficient speakers at 91dB/W/m. Nominal impedance is 8 ohms.

The Tannoy Revolution XT Center has also decent efficiency of 89dB/W/m and is also rated for 8 ohms.

The A2050 is rated to drive 8 ohm loads and should easily drive the Tannoys. For "solid" stereo mode, the A2050 is rated for 140W/channel from 20Hz to 20kHz and at low distortion of just 0.06%.

Might want to carry out some power requirements for the Tannoys Revolution XT 8f using the following web app: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Goal is to reach reference level of 105dB peak at the Main Listening Position (MLP) depending on a number of factors in your room. (Edit: A quick check on the Tannoy Revolution XT 8f being 2' to 4' away from the wall and the listening position under 15', the A2050 can reach peak reference level at about 133W/channel)

Note that using a sub (or better yet a pair of subs) will substantially reduce the power requirements for the Tannoys to reach reference level as the energy sapping (light dimming) low frequencies are re-directed to the more capable sub(s). Do you have a sub(s) at all in your setup? If the answer to this is no, then it would be better to start looking for some good quality subs first. This will vastly improve the sound quality compared to external amps.

Further note is that an increase of +3dB in SPL, means doubling the power requirements. I.e. going from 100W ---> 200W = +3dB. For most people, to sound twice as loud as before means increasing the SPL by +10dB. Unfortunately that means 10x the power requirement. I.e. going from 100W ---> 1,000W = +10dB. It's usually this that causes problems, hence the idea of getting a pair of good subs first.

If you haven't done so, run the automatic calibration on the Yamaha A2050 using YPAO mic that came with the unit. It will tell you the level adjustment carried out for each speaker based on where the Main Listening Position (MLP) is. Pay particular attention to the front left, center and front right speakers. If the numbers are in the negative territory, that means the amp section of the A2050 does not have to work so hard to supply power to the speakers. Report back what the numbers are to see if an external amp is really needed or not.
I know the sensitivity on the Tannoy and up to a certain point the 2050 does fine. Nonetheless, when 2 channel music gets down into the single digits or approaching reference it starts to sound like ****. The Tannoy are rated 100w continuous and 400w peak. Not much actual content is going to feed them 100w continuous and the 400W peak number is probably the one i should pay attention to.

I'd rather toss a couple of monoblocks on them then drive the 2050 into clipping when a song passage comes on and i decide to give it a crank.

Also i do run YPOA and it sets the towers hot. +.5 or +1 when the mic is in the MLP. It drops the center 1db or so, but given that info are the Emotiva mono's such a terrible idea?
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post #4408 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyattroa View Post
Any reason to get the 3050 over the 2050 if I plan on going 5.2.4? Will I gain anything by getting the 3050 model?
  • Expandable to 11.2ch (in case you want to upgrade)
  • Comprehensive pre-outs (in case you want external amps)
  • 3D angle measurement when doing YPAO (not super important for x.x.2, but handy with x.x.4)
  • ESS Sabre32 Ultra DAC (theoretically better sound quality)
  • 10 more watts per ch of amplification (negligible)
  • Native DSD 1 bit support in the DAC (lower AVRs just software convert to LPCM)
  • Double bottom chassis (who cares)

Last edited by kitti; 02-05-2016 at 02:57 PM. Reason: added DSD
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post #4409 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 03:11 PM
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3D angle measurement is interesting. It really doesn't do too much. What it will do is fairly accurately chart where some of the speakers are. The Yamaha won't do a whole lot with that information though. For instance, it doesn't do any speaker re-mapping with Atmos. It does take angles for use with CinemaDSP modes if you use them. However, I just found out that you have to enable Adaptive DSP for it to use these angles with CinemaDSP. Besides the DSP modes, I found it will help with the initial set up with YPAO.
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post #4410 of 10692 Old 02-05-2016, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by faulkton View Post
Did you actually look at what I posted before casting judgements on what I do and don't know?

It would take the active Atmos speaker level outs from the 2050 and turn them into adjustable voltage RCA to feed an amp. So then a 7 channel amp could actually power my whole setup.. . . Exactly what I set out to do...

AudioControl is great brand and you really can't build a decent sounding car system without there products.

So why exactly should I just go buy a soundbar? Oh wise one, point out the err in this fools thinking this time!! ! ! ! !
Too many pages to try to read everything, but why are you trying to turn speaker level outputs into line level outputs? If the 2050 is outputting speaker level, it "should" be outputting line level, preamp outputs too. Running the signal through the yamaha's amp section and then through a converter would needlessly degrade the signal.

Edit: Nevermind, I forgot this is the 20-- we're talking about. No line-level outs for the atmos channels
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