The "OFFICIAL" Yamaha 1050/2050/3050 Owner's thread. - Page 170 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5071 of 10570 Old 03-06-2016, 03:53 PM
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Hello All,

I just installed my 2050 receiver today combined with my speakers in 5.1.4 format. My question is regarding whether it is decoding dolby atmos or not. I only have one atmos title at this time, American Sniper. The program is set to Movie theater standard. There is a little blurb on page 75 of the user manual that says this:

Dolby Atmos contents are decoded as Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus or multichannel PCM format in the following situations:

– Any of CINEMA DSP programs is selected.
– Neither surround back nor presence speakers are used.
– Headphones are used (2-channel playback).


So does the first bulletin above mean that if movie theater standard is selected it won't output dolby atmos? Do I need to put it into "straight" or "pure direct" mode? Sorry for the post, this is all very new to me.

Thanks,

Ryan
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post #5072 of 10570 Old 03-06-2016, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdtuck02 View Post
Hello All,

I just installed my 2050 receiver today combined with my speakers in 5.1.4 format. My question is regarding whether it is decoding dolby atmos or not. I only have one atmos title at this time, American Sniper. The program is set to Movie theater standard. There is a little blurb on page 75 of the user manual that says this:

Dolby Atmos contents are decoded as Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus or multichannel PCM format in the following situations:

– Any of CINEMA DSP programs is selected.
– Neither surround back nor presence speakers are used.
– Headphones are used (2-channel playback).


So does the first bulletin above mean that if movie theater standard is selected it won't output dolby atmos? Do I need to put it into "straight" or "pure direct" mode? Sorry for the post, this is all very new to me.

Thanks,

Ryan
The Yamaha AVRs do not have the ability to apply a DSP on top of Atmos. If you want Atmos select either straight or surround.
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post #5073 of 10570 Old 03-06-2016, 05:14 PM
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Only the CX-A5100 allows applying CinemaDSP over Atmos.
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post #5074 of 10570 Old 03-06-2016, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post
Thxs,I've never seen a movie in dtsx,is it as good as atmos?
Since there is no content available to the consumer that is both DTS:X and Dolby Atmos, it's impossible to really answer that as presented.

However, both are hybrid channel/object based audio streams using similar 7.1.4 speaker layouts.

For most practical concerns, they are identical.
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post #5075 of 10570 Old 03-06-2016, 06:28 PM
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Dolby Atmos Playback...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemoon737 View Post
The Yamaha AVRs do not have the ability to apply a DSP on top of Atmos. If you want Atmos select either straight or surround.
I got a present today of the Expendable 3 on Blue Ray.. That has a Dolby Atmos sound track... My 3050 shows Dolby Digital HD 3D on the display set to Adventure Mode.. At the beginning of the movie it has a Dolby Atmos Demo sound track, like the THX days... I analyzed the audio from all 9 of my speakers, and it sounds just down right awesome... In the beginning of the movie Stallone is piloting a helicopter, and the sound is coming out from every direction... After some testing i went into the players sound setting and changed it to Dolby Digital format, you can immediately tell the difference in a lot of ways... I would say that my RX-A3050 decodes it just fine... Only the 3050 has the HD3D mode... Now off to watch another present I got today, Mad Max!!!
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post #5076 of 10570 Old 03-06-2016, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert ham View Post
I got a present today of the Expendable 3 on Blue Ray.. That has a Dolby Atmos sound track... My 3050 shows Dolby Digital HD 3D on the display set to Adventure Mode.. At the beginning of the movie it has a Dolby Atmos Demo sound track, like the THX days... I analyzed the audio from all 9 of my speakers, and it sounds just down right awesome... In the beginning of the movie Stallone is piloting a helicopter, and the sound is coming out from every direction... After some testing i went into the players sound setting and changed it to Dolby Digital format, you can immediately tell the difference in a lot of ways... I would say that my RX-A3050 decodes it just fine... Only the 3050 has the HD3D mode... Now off to watch another present I got today, Mad Max!!!
Since you are in adventure mode (which is a DSP) you are not actually listening to the Atmos track. You are listening to Yamaha's DSP of the TrueHD underlying track. I have no doubt it sounds awesome, just saying it's not Atmos.
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post #5077 of 10570 Old 03-06-2016, 06:41 PM
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OK, you have my attention

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemoon737 View Post
Since you are in adventure mode (which is a DSP) you are not actually listening to the Atmos track. You are listening to Yamaha's DSP of the TrueHD underlying track. I have no doubt it sounds awesome, just saying it's not Atmos.
So how would I set up the receiver to do Dolby Atmos?? I thought I was following the owners manual but apparently I made a mistake?
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post #5078 of 10570 Old 03-06-2016, 06:42 PM
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I think you need to change the mode to Straight instead of adventure
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post #5079 of 10570 Old 03-06-2016, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert ham View Post
So how would I set up the receiver to do Dolby Atmos?? I thought I was following the owners manual but apparently I made a mistake?
Either use Dolby Surround mode or Straight

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post #5080 of 10570 Old 03-06-2016, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemoon737 View Post
The Yamaha AVRs do not have the ability to apply a DSP on top of Atmos. If you want Atmos select either straight or surround.
Thanks for the quick response. Any difference in straight or surround?
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post #5081 of 10570 Old 03-06-2016, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdtuck02 View Post
Thanks for the quick response. Any difference in straight or surround?
For a title with a Dolby Atmos track, there is no difference.

If you want to upmix any non Atmos track to use your height speakers, select "surround" , also commonly
referred to as DSU (Dolby Surround Upmix) on the forum...although that term does not show up anywhere in the manual.


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post #5082 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 07:00 AM
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[quote=PioManiac;42191721]For a title with a Dolby Atmos track, there is no difference.

If you want to upmix any non Atmos track to use your height speakers, select "surround" , also commonly
referred to as DSU (Dolby Surround Upmix) on the forum...although that term does not show up anywhere in the manual.

]

Thanks PioManiac, one final question. Have you guys noticed that YPAO tends to set speakers to large that would be better served as small? I ask because when I ran the set up, it placed all my speakers as large, speaker craft profile AIM LCR one dual 5-1/4 in walls, and speaker craft profile AIM7 in ceiling. Subwoofer was a klipsch reference 10inch powered sub, 50% gain, 80 crossover. I noticed that my bass wasn't as "impactful" during big movie scenes as I would like. I went out and bought a second identical sub last night to see if that helped, but more of the same. I then spent several hours online last night reading about bass management. It seems a general rule is to disable the subs crossover by turning it all the way up, setting all speakers to "small" and setting the receiver's crossover to 80. Have any of you guys done this with the 2050? Can I change just the speakers from large to small after doing the auto setup and keep every other setting, or am I going to have to do a total manual setup?

Thanks, Ryan
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post #5083 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 07:08 AM
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[quote=rdtuck02;42197185]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
For a title with a Dolby Atmos track, there is no difference.



If you want to upmix any non Atmos track to use your height speakers, select "surround" , also commonly

referred to as DSU (Dolby Surround Upmix) on the forum...although that term does not show up anywhere in the manual.



]



Thanks PioManiac, one final question. Have you guys noticed that YPAO tends to set speakers to large that would be better served as small? I ask because when I ran the set up, it placed all my speakers as large, speaker craft profile AIM LCR one dual 5-1/4 in walls, and speaker craft profile AIM7 in ceiling. Subwoofer was a klipsch reference 10inch powered sub, 50% gain, 80 crossover. I noticed that my bass wasn't as "impactful" during big movie scenes as I would like. I went out and bought a second identical sub last night to see if that helped, but more of the same. I then spent several hours online last night reading about bass management. It seems a general rule is to disable the subs crossover by turning it all the way up, setting all speakers to "small" and setting the receiver's crossover to 80. Have any of you guys done this with the 2050? Can I change just the speakers from large to small after doing the auto setup and keep every other setting, or am I going to have to do a total manual setup?



Thanks, Ryan

Yes. I did change then to small after set up and yes it helped improve bass. I also got second subwoofer and placed in the back of the room and it was even better bass.
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post #5084 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 08:09 AM
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If I play Atmos movie with 5.1 channels setup, my 3050 shows Dolby TrueHD on the display! Is it normal?

Or, should I be physically connected to e.g. 5.1.4 channels for the 3050 to show Atmos?


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post #5085 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by showmak View Post
If I play Atmos movie with 5.1 channels setup, my 3050 shows Dolby TrueHD on the display! Is it normal?

Or, should I be physically connected to e.g. 5.1.4 channels for the 3050 to show Atmos?


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If all you have is 5.1 and that is all that is "mapped" in your set up then TrueHD is all you are going to get. To have Atmos "available" there needs to be some sort of presence speakers (height, dolby modules, or actual in ceiling) selected to provide the height channel necessary for Atmos (and DTS:X when it becomes available).
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post #5086 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdtuck02 View Post
Thanks PioManiac, one final question. Have you guys noticed that YPAO tends to set speakers to large that would be better served as small? I ask because when I ran the set up, it placed all my speakers as large, speaker craft profile AIM LCR one dual 5-1/4 in walls, and speaker craft profile AIM7 in ceiling. Subwoofer was a klipsch reference 10inch powered sub, 50% gain, 80 crossover. I noticed that my bass wasn't as "impactful" during big movie scenes as I would like. I went out and bought a second identical sub last night to see if that helped, but more of the same. I then spent several hours online last night reading about bass management. It seems a general rule is to disable the subs crossover by turning it all the way up, setting all speakers to "small" and setting the receiver's crossover to 80. Have any of you guys done this with the 2050? Can I change just the speakers from large to small after doing the auto setup and keep every other setting, or am I going to have to do a total manual setup?

Thanks, Ryan



If you have a powered sub(s), Bass Management is essential!
For maximum performance, lower frequency extension/ higher output with less distortion,
...and a much lower strain on the internal amplifiers of the AVR.
(= more watts per channel headroom when low frequencies are redirected to the Sub with its OWN Amp.)

My 3050 only has a 500watt power supply,
...my subs (4) have a combined 2400w/4800w peak,
so why not make them do the bulk of the work?

Bass Management 101 (if you have powered subs and passive speakers)

1) Set the crossover on the sub to full range, volume/gain on the sub a bit over half.
2) Run YPAO to establish distance/level (and angle measurements 3050 only)
3) Change all speakers to small, crossover to 80Hz (regardless of the size of the speaker)
4) Do Not re-run YPAO

(I also set the PEQ to : FLAT)

I then copy my settings from "Pattern 1" into the Pattern 2 slot as well,
... and Bump the sub level in the speaker menu +5dB for pattern 2
I call it my WNH ...("Wife's Not Home") setting and also save it to memory on one of my "Scene" buttons.









I used an SPL meter to manually gain/level match my subs,
setup as Front and Rear (ea paired with a Y splitter)

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The SC-95 will do 7.2.4 with external amplification. I'm trying to see what kind of deals I can get on the 3050, but I can get the 95 for about 1150, so I don't know that the difference won't be significant.
Looks like I lucked out. Apparently I know someone who can get wholesale pricing. I should be able to get the A3050 for a great price.

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post #5088 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 09:33 AM
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Looks like I lucked out. Apparently I know someone who can get wholesale pricing. I should be able to get the A3050 for a great price.
Please share info about pricing on the A3050, I am also interested. Or I will get SC95.

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post #5089 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 09:38 AM
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Please share info about pricing on the A3050, I am also interested. Or I will get SC95.
Well, I know someone who used to work for a local installer and he is still able to get them at cost, so I don't know what it will help anyone else. But I should be getting the A3050 for under $1300. Unfortunately, he can't get Pioneer, so getting the SC-95 at discount wasn't an option. Still, unless the price on the SC95 was under 1000, I don't think I would have passed up the A3050 at this price.

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post #5090 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ChldsPlay View Post
Well, I know someone who used to work for a local installer and he is still able to get them at cost, so I don't know what it will help anyone else. But I should be getting the A3050 for under $1300. Unfortunately, he can't get Pioneer, so getting the SC-95 at discount wasn't an option. Still, unless the price on the SC95 was under 1000, I don't think I would have passed up the A3050 at this price.
that's a great deal,
A3050 at this price! I would buy it too, like right now!

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post #5091 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 09:42 AM
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PioManiac,

Wow! I tried the above settings except the SPL meter calibration (don't have one ) and it made all the difference in the world. Watched the original jurassic park T rex scene and it sounded substantially better. Thanks man!
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post #5092 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 10:37 AM
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Phase Errors

When I run YPAO, the result showed that there were phase errors in surround speakers ( a pair of Infinity Kappa). However, I checked the positive and negative labels of speakers, the connections were correct. For curiosity sake, I reversed the connections - connecting positive wires to negative terminals of the speakers and negative wires to positive terminals. I re-run YPAO - the phase errors disappeared. The user manual says that if the connections are correct, one should ignore the error message. In this case, did I do the right thing by assuming that Infinity Kappa had wrong connections in speaker terminals. How likely is that?
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post #5093 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 02:34 PM
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When I run YPAO, the result showed that there were phase errors in surround speakers ( a pair of Infinity Kappa). However, I checked the positive and negative labels of speakers, the connections were correct. For curiosity sake, I reversed the connections - connecting positive wires to negative terminals of the speakers and negative wires to positive terminals. I re-run YPAO - the phase errors disappeared. The user manual says that if the connections are correct, one should ignore the error message. In this case, did I do the right thing by assuming that Infinity Kappa had wrong connections in speaker terminals. How likely is that?
Use a phase test on a demo disc to verify phase after you've established accurate distance/delay factors in the AVR.
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post #5094 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 02:44 PM
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Phase Errors

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Use a phase test on a demo disc to verify phase after you've established accurate distance/delay factors in the AVR.
Could you recommend a demo disc which has phase test? Thanks
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post #5095 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 02:44 PM
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Thanks for the quick response. Any difference in straight or surround?
I found using SURROUND for ATMOS I had to bump up the center channel a little from ZERO to 1 (Max is 3). Using STRAIGHT I had to set it up on a different scene to be set as ZERO as 1 was a bit over whelming in the dialogue.
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post #5096 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 02:46 PM
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Could you recommend a demo disc which has phase test? Thanks
Sure Edit: oops, I don't think that has a phase test. I think the phase test I used is on this DTS disc.

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post #5097 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ashaw4811 View Post
When I run YPAO, the result showed that there were phase errors in surround speakers ( a pair of Infinity Kappa). However, I checked the positive and negative labels of speakers, the connections were correct. For curiosity sake, I reversed the connections - connecting positive wires to negative terminals of the speakers and negative wires to positive terminals. I re-run YPAO - the phase errors disappeared. The user manual says that if the connections are correct, one should ignore the error message. In this case, did I do the right thing by assuming that Infinity Kappa had wrong connections in speaker terminals. How likely is that?
I would connect it up the way it should be but first I would positively 10,000,000,000,000,000% test that you have identified the cables correctly by using a test length of cable and a multi meter and check it.
Many years ago I struck a fat clear10 gauge speaker cable that had a WHITE line but half way through the roll the white line swapped on the other side. I actually cut this section out and posted the photo of this on another forum. Now not saying yours could be the same but I would thoroughly investigate this issue.

Main Room Sony KD-75X9400E Display, AMP. Yamaha RX-A3050. Front Mains, 2x Dali Concept 8. Klipsch Center, Surround and Rear Surrounds, 4X Dali Ikon 1. Ceiling 4X B&W CCM 382. Subs, 2x Kef C200 for the rear and 2X Kenwood SW-07HT for the fronts. Lounge Shakers, Dayton Audio SA 230 Sub Amp with 4 AST-2B-4 lounge Shakers. The other Tv room the Hecto live there the Hecto 100 inch Short throw projector,
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post #5098 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 03:17 PM
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I found using SURROUND for ATMOS I had to bump up the center channel a little from ZERO to 1 (Max is 3). Using STRAIGHT I had to set it up on a different scene to be set as ZERO as 1 was a bit over whelming in the dialogue.
I bump up my center too. Its not and atmos setup yet but
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post #5099 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 03:41 PM
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If all you have is 5.1 and that is all that is "mapped" in your set up then TrueHD is all you are going to get. To have Atmos "available" there needs to be some sort of presence speakers (height, dolby modules, or actual in ceiling) selected to provide the height channel necessary for Atmos (and DTS:X when it becomes available).
Not true. Only need to enable object based decoding on the setting. I can get Atmos to show up on the receiver with 7.1 before I get my overhead speaker.
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post #5100 of 10570 Old 03-07-2016, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ashaw4811 View Post
When I run YPAO, the result showed that there were phase errors in surround speakers ( a pair of Infinity Kappa). However, I checked the positive and negative labels of speakers, the connections were correct. For curiosity sake, I reversed the connections - connecting positive wires to negative terminals of the speakers and negative wires to positive terminals. I re-run YPAO - the phase errors disappeared. The user manual says that if the connections are correct, one should ignore the error message. In this case, did I do the right thing by assuming that Infinity Kappa had wrong connections in speaker terminals. How likely is that?
If you can open the speaker grill, try connecting the speaker to a small battery. (1.5 v AAA or less will do but must be very brief, too long can destroy your speaker).
Make sure the woofer and mid between left and right speaker all coming out or all coming in when you connect the battery to the same polarity.
Can't test the tweeter though as maybe you can't see the movement.

But try this at your own risk. And do it fast just enough for you to confirm the cone movement or else you can potentially burn the voice coil.
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