The "OFFICIAL" Yamaha 1050/2050/3050 Owner's thread. - Page 173 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5161 of 10583 Old 03-08-2016, 04:52 PM
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Phase Errors

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Originally Posted by PerryH View Post
By the way, the speakers in question are a pair of Infinity Kappa used as surround speakers, placing next the wall and facing the seating area (as a result facing the opposite side of the wall). Thus, the phase errors could due to the location not the connection errors. However, when I switched the connections, phase errors disappeared. How would one explain this - location problem or connection problem? Thanks in advance for your insight.
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post #5162 of 10583 Old 03-08-2016, 04:54 PM
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Phase Errors

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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
What happens if you reconnect it correctly and rerun YPAO?
I did that and phase errors show up again.
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post #5163 of 10583 Old 03-08-2016, 05:00 PM
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You guys are extrapolating the issues Denon has had to expected problems with the Yamaha implementation and you are really comparing apples to oranges. Don't get me wrong, I want it right before sooner...but I stand by my position that waiting for a year would be unacceptable.
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post #5164 of 10583 Old 03-08-2016, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
That's okay if you disagree.

But objects do nothing if you have 7.1 only.

There is NO difference in rendering. 7.1 = 7.1 audio. Why can you not understand that? There is no benefit objects can bring to just 7.1 audio. It's only once you go beyond 7.1 audio (add wides or overhead speakers) that the objects begin to "make a difference".

So if you have a 7.1 only system with an Atmos receiver, it will sound (or "render") exactly the same as a 7.1 layout with a non-Atmos receiver.
Atmos decoder will still use the metadata even on 7.1 while True HD decoder will not, result maybe same but method is different, that's my point. Whether different method yielding different result and good or bad is not my point.

There is "potential" benefit of separate object vs all sound mixed on bed channel which whether it is beneficial or useful is up to debate. Object can have it's own volume control for example (which DTS X already show us with their dialogue volume and sure Atmos can do it if they want). Another benefit is the receiver manufacturer can apply DSP effect to certain object to enhance them, etc. While True HD fixed bed channel can't do it for specific object or need complex filter which can and will affect other sound.

Atmos decoder not only capable steering objects on overhead speakers but also capable to do it on ground channel say simple sweep from front left to center and ended on front right speakers.


So with the above object capability, even without overhead there might be difference between Atmos and True HD decoding.

Last edited by Blue Earth; 03-08-2016 at 05:45 PM.
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post #5165 of 10583 Old 03-08-2016, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemoon737 View Post
You guys are extrapolating the issues Denon has had to expected problems with the Yamaha implementation and you are really comparing apples to oranges. Don't get me wrong, I want it right before sooner...but I stand by my position that waiting for a year would be unacceptable.
Considering that Yamaha hasn't even missed the officially announced timeframe of "early March," I think that your "late by a year" scenario may be a little extreme.

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post #5166 of 10583 Old 03-08-2016, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
This BS D+M gave their customer a date and the firmware was available the date it was promised, I am really regretting my purchase.



Don't even know why I bought Yamaha

Most of us bought yamaha because its a quality product and we believe their products should be accompanied by quality updates that work. Can always sell your yamaha on craigslist!
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post #5167 of 10583 Old 03-08-2016, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigScreen View Post
Considering that Yamaha hasn't even missed the officially announced timeframe of "early March," I think that your "late by a year" scenario may be a little extreme.
Follow the thread...someone asked if it would be fine if it took a year....my reply was no. Personally, I have every faith Yamaha will meet their press release date (early March)... I consider early March to be anything before mid-month.

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post #5168 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 12:09 AM
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I couldnt fit the 3050 were the denon x4000 used to fit above the Rotel amp. Just tested the setup with Oblivion and Spectre. And I must admit the 3050 absolutely pantsed the Denon x4000. Id even say the setup process was easier. Really happy so far with the purchase.
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post #5169 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by hatlesschimp View Post
And I must admit the 3050 absolutely pantsed the Denon x4000. Id even say the setup process was easier. Really happy so far with the purchase.
I didn't think it possible, but somehow Yamaha has improved their DSP with this immersive generation of sound. It really fills the room! The revelation for me was dialog: even my wife commented how much easier it was to understand dialog when I cut-over to the 2050. Granted, I came from an (old) DSP-A1, but that was no slouch in it's day.

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post #5170 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 07:50 AM
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Well it reminded me when i added a 5ch power amp to my setup. It was as if the speakers had character and become alive. Thats how much a difference it made. Im happy. Good to hear someone else is too!

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post #5171 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatlesschimp View Post
Well it reminded me when i added a 5ch power amp to my setup. It was as if the speakers had character and become alive. Thats how much a difference it made. Im happy. Good to hear someone else is too!

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You're in for a real Treat once you get to experience the extra height channels in full Atmos glory.

I was skeptical for almost a year,
Finally made the jump to full blown 7.4.4 and I'm buying most of the "Good" Atmos BD's now.

The good part of being a late adopter..
a lot of the older Atmos titles are now $10 cheaper than they were on release date.

...just in from Amazon


That should bring my total up to about 15 or 16
...some from 6 months ago that I need to re-watch now

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post #5172 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 10:51 AM
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Can anyone tell me the distance from the front foot of the 1050 to the rear foot??? The specs say the total receivers depth (front to back) is 17.25 I believe. My current Denon x3000 is listed as 16" deep and it's about at my max for my cabinet. But if the feet on the 1050 can still fit on my shelf, I can just cut the remainder of the back out and it'll just hang out an inch or two.
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post #5173 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Earth View Post
Atmos decoder will still use the metadata even on 7.1 while True HD decoder will not
Atmos decoder never gets activated for 7.1 playback since there already is a 7.1 downmix on the disc.

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post #5174 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by de8212 View Post
But if the feet on the 1050 can still fit on my shelf, I can just cut the remainder of the back out and it'll just hang out an inch or two.
Just do it! I think it's about 18" deep and I do the same thing; the added benefit is you get a little more air flow and easier cable management.

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post #5175 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanton View Post
Just do it! I think it's about 18" deep and I do the same thing; the added benefit is you get a little more air flow and easier cable management.
Well, I agree but if I got it and the back feet were off of the shelf then I'd have some issues.
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post #5176 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by de8212 View Post
Can anyone tell me the distance from the front foot of the 1050 to the rear foot??? The specs say the total receivers depth (front to back) is 17.25 I believe. My current Denon x3000 is listed as 16" deep and it's about at my max for my cabinet. But if the feet on the 1050 can still fit on my shelf, I can just cut the remainder of the back out and it'll just hang out an inch or two.
Its 12" center to center on my 2030. Im sure the 1050 will fit.
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post #5177 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 03:32 PM
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Its 12" center to center on my 2030. Im sure the 1050 will fit.
Thanks.
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post #5178 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Atmos decoder never gets activated for 7.1 playback since there already is a 7.1 downmix on the disc.
Ok possible, where did you get your fact?
And why the receiver displayed Dolby Atmos instead of Dolby True HD? It will change to Dolby true HD once I turned off the object decode mode option.
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post #5179 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Earth View Post
Ok possible, where did you get your fact?
From Dolby. E-mail them and ask why the Atmos track includes a 7.1-channel downmix.
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And why the receiver displayed Dolby Atmos instead of Dolby True HD?
Indicates the source.

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post #5180 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
From Dolby. E-mail them and ask why the Atmos track includes a 7.1-channel downmix. Indicates the source.
They include downmix for True HD capable receiver only?

And it certainly does not indicate the source, it is indicating the decoder used. Try to press info on your remote and it sure mention "Audio Decoding". Not source.
Also when I turn off object based then it changes to True HD why would the source changed? Even if is source then it means when i use object decoding it will still use atmos track instead of true hd track.
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post #5181 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 07:49 PM
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Hi guys, got a question to ask and thought this would be the best place, Ive tried searching and reading through this thread but its overwhelming lol.

Looking at getting either an RX-A3050 or the CX-A5100, curious can the 3050 do 11 channel (7.1.4) in main zone and handle a zone 2/3 simultaneously. I realize I would need separate external amps to add to the 9 onboard amp channels for all this, and if so is it flexible with what channels use the external amp?

Thanks a bunch.
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post #5182 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by kgroff View Post
Hi guys, got a question to ask and thought this would be the best place, Ive tried searching and reading through this thread but its overwhelming lol.



Looking at getting either an RX-A3050 or the CX-A5100, curious can the 3050 do 11 channel (7.1.4) in main zone and handle a zone 2/3 simultaneously. I realize I would need separate external amps to add to the 9 onboard amp channels for all this, and if so is it flexible with what channels use the external amp?



Thanks a bunch.

Yes. Pre outs to any channel can be used and power amp could be assigned in few different ways

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post #5183 of 10583 Old 03-09-2016, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Earth View Post
They include downmix for True HD capable receiver only?
Yes, it's the first three substreams of every Atmos track.
Quote:
And it certainly does not indicate the source, it is indicating the decoder used.
Depends on receiver brand. Denon will still indicate Atmos when configured for 2 speakers, despite the Atmos decoder not being used. Onkyo will indicate Atmos when configured for more than 5 speakers, even when the Atmos decoder is not being used.
Quote:
Even if is source then it means when i use object decoding it will still use atmos track instead of true hd track.
Same track.

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post #5184 of 10583 Old 03-10-2016, 12:37 AM
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Is the DTS:X firmware up yet? I got myself a DTS:X Bluray today.
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post #5185 of 10583 Old 03-10-2016, 01:10 AM
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Is the DTS:X firmware up yet? I got myself a DTS:X Bluray today.
Nope. Likely later this month.
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post #5186 of 10583 Old 03-10-2016, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Yes, it's the first three substreams of every Atmos track. Depends on receiver brand. Denon will still indicate Atmos when configured for 2 speakers, despite the Atmos decoder not being used. Onkyo will indicate Atmos when configured for more than 5 speakers, even when the Atmos decoder is not being used. Same track.
Not sure with other receiver but clearly on Yamaha it mentioned audio decoder being used is atmos.
It is possible other brand is, like you said indicating the source. Or they have minimum speaker config before atmos can be decoded. Like yamaha need at least 7 speakers and onkyo, like you said need 5. Why else do you think they need 5 speakers connected before atmos can be displayed? And total 7 in yamaha case?

True HD downmix is there only for backward compability with receiver without atmos. Or if you disable the atmos decoding capability, i.e turn off object decoding.
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post #5187 of 10583 Old 03-10-2016, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgroff View Post
Hi guys, got a question to ask and thought this would be the best place, Ive tried searching and reading through this thread but its overwhelming lol.

Looking at getting either an RX-A3050 or the CX-A5100, curious can the 3050 do 11 channel (7.1.4) in main zone and handle a zone 2/3 simultaneously. I realize I would need separate external amps to add to the 9 onboard amp channels for all this, and if so is it flexible with what channels use the external amp?

Thanks a bunch.
With a 11CH configuration (ie. 7.1.4) in the main zone:

A3050 - Only Zone 2 possible (pp. 31 - 32 Owner's manual), ie. no Zone 3

CX-A5100 - Both Zones 2 and 3 are possible, however, with Zone 3 enabled, you would lose the Rear Presence L/R speakers (p. 22 Owner's manual)
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post #5188 of 10583 Old 03-10-2016, 02:02 AM
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Yamaha on their Japanese internet pages officially announced, that the DTS:X update will be delayed till the end of March 2016 for all modells (5100, 3050, 2050, 1050) concerned.
Probably due to the recent discovery of bugs in DTS:X which caused some problems with DTS:X updates to Denon and Marantz units.
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post #5189 of 10583 Old 03-10-2016, 05:18 AM
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While waiting for the DTS:X firmware update for my 3050, I was wondering whether anyone has read posts regarding the Denon-Marantz owners' experience with whatever upmixer is part of the DTS:X firmware update (DTS's equivalent to Dolby "DSU") when they apply that upmixer to legacy DTS lossless 5.1/7.1 Blu-Rays. Any better than when we currently apply DSU or Yamaha DSPs to those films??????
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post #5190 of 10583 Old 03-10-2016, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
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Yamaha on their Japanese internet pages officially announced, that the DTS:X update will be delayed till the end of March 2016 for all models (5100, 3050, 2050, 1050) concerned.
Probably due to the recent discovery of bugs in DTS:X which caused some problems with DTS:X updates to Denon and Marantz units.
Not unexpected, but still a shame! Are you able to provide the link to that web page? Thanks!
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