The "OFFICIAL" Yamaha 1050/2050/3050 Owner's thread. - Page 201 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6001 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by riadmelb View Post
I'm getting the front heights sound from main fronts, and rear heights from back surrounds, I confirmed this by listening to the sound test clip that came with The Last Witch Hunter. Why is that happening?
DTS:X has a couple of height layers: the lower layer is called Height, the upper layer is called Top (Top = Overhead in Yamaha gear).

That DTS:X sound test clip was recorded for Height speakers, so if you have those speakers designated as Overheads, then the DTS:X decoder will try to re-map the sound downwards to the Height layer by leaking sound to your Fronts & Rears, attempting to create a phantom image below your Overhead speakers (where it thinks the Height speakers should be).

Nothing wrong with that, it's merely a sign that the DTS:X re-mapping engine is working as intended. Re-designating those speakers as Heights should stop the sound from leaking down into your Fronts & Rears.

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post #6002 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 08:49 AM
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What is the difference between 7.1.4 and 7.1.4 + Object?

Last edited by Movie78; 03-31-2016 at 10:05 AM.
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post #6003 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mukes View Post
I just double checked by myself. There is no such option (">") for "Surround Decode" in neither Apple nor Android.

You have to setup/ choose the Upmixer on the TV screen.

you have to excuse me on this question not to bright. could you explain little more on what you are saying. You have to setup/ choose the Upmixer on the TV screen. I have the app on my I-pad and not shure how to change decoders. also I am not shure that when I down loaded the app if they came out with a new update for the app. so what is the latest version#. thanks have a nice day.
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post #6004 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:09 AM
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The one movie I checked out last night which was Crimson Peak was on par with the Atmos tracks that I have. DTS X has come thru with flying colors. You just have to remember that the DTS X movies are at 4 decibels lower than the Atmos tracks.
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post #6005 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:11 AM
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Anyone done the update wireless? My 2050 is in a separate part of the house and for some reason it doesn't pick up the signal from my rourter,should I try to down load it to a thumb drive?
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post #6006 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post
Anyone done the update wireless? My 2050 is in a separate part of the house and for some reason it doesn't pick up the signal from my rourter,should I try to down load it to a thumb drive?
I updated two of my 1050s over wireless w/o a hitch, but YMMV.
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post #6007 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:17 AM
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should I try to down load it to a thumb drive?
Yes
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post #6008 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post

DTS:X in 7.4.4 like a BOSS!








Have you actually obtained 7.4.4 or just 7.1.4 or stereo subs 7."2".4. Are you somehow using the multiple receiver pathway? I'm just wondering how you managed 4 discrete LFE channels and whether or not I could do it too? I've noticed many people using the nomenclature incorrectly, i.e. number of speakers instead of numbers of discrete channels. I used to be one of those people.

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post #6009 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by multit View Post
I just checked that and mine (CX-A5100) is working like you want... Neural: X is here currently active for all sources, but once I start a Dolby Atmos flick, the Yamaha switches automatically to "Dolby Atmos". I can't remember that I set a special option for that...

Hello Multit...I have a 5100 as well and my test tone does not work now, are you having the same problem? You use to have to wait a few seconds after you turn test tone on and went back to channel level before you would hear the speaker that you selected, but now I waited for a good 20 seconds and nothing.


Also what you are experiencing with auto is exactly how I would like it to work but it doesn't. I put in the 2015 DTS:X demo disc and when set to DSU it would pull out the core 7.1 DTS soundtrack and then use DSU unless I switched it to Neural:X and then it would detect DTS:X. I was hoping to figure out which upmixer I like better and apply that to all non-Atmos and non DTS:X signals and then have it automatically switch to DTS:X or Atmos if it detects it.


I did just download the update last night and have not spent a ton of time (20-30 minutes) playing with the settings, but at first try there are a few problems that need to be worked out but nothing major...unless it's user error then I have some manual reading to do in my future, but the 1 page manual that comes with the upgrade isn't all that detailed.


Cheers!
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post #6010 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by speeddeacon View Post
Have you actually obtained 7.4.4 or just 7.1.4 or stereo subs 7."2".4. Are you somehow using the multiple receiver pathway? I'm just wondering how you managed 4 discrete LFE channels and whether or not I could do it too? I've noticed many people using the nomenclature incorrectly, i.e. number of speakers instead of numbers of discrete channels. I used to be one of those people.
I have two discrete sub outs , so technically 7.2.4
The Subs are set as Front pair 11' away, and Rear pair about 5' away by YPAO.

My room is 100% symmetrical so the Front Pair (left/right) are on a Y-splitter
and exactly equal distances from the MLP...so delays are identical and level/gain matched with SPL meter.

Same goes for the two subs in the rear
Both near field, side by side directly behind the center seat, level matched with SPL meter.
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REW measured very well considering, so no need for a miniDSP

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post #6011 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Turkish14 View Post

Also what you are experiencing with auto is exactly how I would like it to work but it doesn't. I put in the 2015 DTS:X demo disc and when set to DSU it would pull out the core 7.1 DTS soundtrack and then use DSU unless I switched it to Neural:X and then it would detect DTS:X. I was hoping to figure out which upmixer I like better and apply that to all non-Atmos and non DTS:X signals and then have it automatically switch to DTS:X or Atmos if it detects it.

Cheers!

That's what I was hoping for, so far I can't get it to work like that. Hopefully it's just user error.
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post #6012 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by urbeenjammin View Post
The one movie I checked out last night which was Crimson Peak was on par with the Atmos tracks that I have. DTS X has come thru with flying colors. You just have to remember that the DTS X movies are at 4 decibels lower than the Atmos tracks.
I watched two DTSX movies so far. Crimson and Witchhunter. Crimson is on par with Atmos, Witchhunter is not. Both DTSX movies sound better on the Yamaha than on the Marantz(so even though Yamaha took more time to get DTSX out the door, they did a better job with it).
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post #6013 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:38 AM
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Ok


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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post #6014 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by steelers1 View Post
you have to excuse me on this question not to bright. could you explain little more on what you are saying. You have to setup/ choose the Upmixer on the TV screen. I have the app on my I-pad and not shure how to change decoders. also I am not shure that when I down loaded the app if they came out with a new update for the app. so what is the latest version#. thanks have a nice day.
Unfortunately, you can not change the decoder type directly using the APP. You can do it but it's a process. You have to go to the 'remote' control portion, then hit ONSCREEN, then select the DSP option tab, scroll through the DSP modes until you reach SURROUND DECODER at which you can hit UP on the directional pad to make adjustments. On this screen you can select one of several decoders including DSU and Neural:X.

Kind of annoying. You should be able to simply toggle through these choices by hitting the SURR DECODE button just like it works with the physical remote. I hope Yamaha fixes this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post
Anyone done the update wireless? My 2050 is in a separate part of the house and for some reason it doesn't pick up the signal from my rourter,should I try to down load it to a thumb drive?
Did mine wireless. No problem at all.
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post #6015 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
DTS:X has a couple of height layers: the lower layer is called Height, the upper layer is called Top (Top = Overhead in Yamaha gear).

That DTS:X sound test clip was recorded for Height speakers, so if you have those speakers designated as Overheads, then the DTS:X decoder will try to re-map the sound downwards to the Height layer by leaking sound to your Fronts & Rears, attempting to create a phantom image below your Overhead speakers (where it thinks the Height speakers should be).

Nothing wrong with that, it's merely a sign that the DTS:X re-mapping engine is working as intended. Re-designating those speakers as Heights should stop the sound from leaking down into your Fronts & Rears.
So basically what you're saying is that it's best to watch Atmos movies with overheads and dts:X movies with Heights to prevent leakage of sound.
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post #6016 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by speeddeacon View Post
Have you actually obtained 7.4.4 or just 7.1.4 or stereo subs 7."2".4. Are you somehow using the multiple receiver pathway? I'm just wondering how you managed 4 discrete LFE channels and whether or not I could do it too? I've noticed many people using the nomenclature incorrectly, i.e. number of speakers instead of numbers of discrete channels. I used to be one of those people.
There is no such thing as 7.4.4 audio signal.

He is describing his system configuration as 7.1.4 but is using four subs.
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post #6017 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:43 AM
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So basically what you're saying is that it's best to watch Atmos movies with overheads and dts:X movies with Heights to prevent leakage of sound.
Yes.

Thankfully Yamaha has a very convenient tool to get past this. The system allows to program two 'patterns'. In the main system configuration screen, the top selection is called PATTERN. In here you can select Pattern1 or Pattern2.

Essentially, it is there to have two setups at once. For us doing lots of immersive audio, I have mine now set for Atmos and DTS:X as OVERHEAD mode and HEIGHT mode. Both patterns were saved as identical except the two pairs of presence speakers. One pattern has them set to OVERHEAD and the other set to HEIGHT, all else is equal. I made two SCENES and made them switch between the two. At any given moment, I have a one button press on the remote to switch nearly instantly from HEIGHT to OVERHEAD designation.

Works great. It's a work around but not that cumbersome at all using the SCENE feature.
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post #6018 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbo View Post
I watched two DTSX movies so far. Crimson and Witchhunter. Crimson is on par with Atmos, Witchhunter is not. Both DTSX movies sound better on the Yamaha than on the Marantz(so even though Yamaha took more time to get DTSX out the door, they did a better job with it).
I absolutely agree with the statement that DTS:X sounds better on the Yamaha than Marantz. At first I thought I was crazy, but the more I listen the more I am convinced that is indeed the case. While I am still not bowled over by DTS:X based on the current slate of titles, Yamaha has certainly increased my interest in the long term.
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post #6019 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Yes.

Thankfully Yamaha has a very convenient tool to get past this. The system allows to program two 'patterns'. In the main system configuration screen, the top selection is called PATTERN. In here you can select Pattern1 or Pattern2.

Essentially, it is there to have two setups at once. For us doing lots of immersive audio, I have mine now set for Atmos and DTS:X as OVERHEAD mode and HEIGHT mode. Both patterns were saved as identical except the two pairs of presence speakers. One pattern has them set to OVERHEAD and the other set to HEIGHT, all else is equal. I made two SCENES and made them switch between the two. At any given moment, I have a one button press on the remote to switch nearly instantly from HEIGHT to OVERHEAD designation.

Works great. It's a work around but not that cumbersome at all using the SCENE feature.
Perfect... thanks Scott. Now yamaha just needs to fix the issue with saving surround decoder types to different scenes.

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post #6020 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by blackreign66 View Post
So basically what you're saying is that it's best to watch Atmos movies with overheads and dts:X movies with Heights to prevent leakage of sound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Yes.

Thankfully Yamaha has a very convenient tool to get past this. The system allows to program two 'patterns'. In the main system configuration screen, the top selection is called PATTERN. In here you can select Pattern1 or Pattern2.

Essentially, it is there to have two setups at once. For us doing lots of immersive audio, I have mine now set for Atmos and DTS:X as OVERHEAD mode and HEIGHT mode. Both patterns were saved as identical except the two pairs of presence speakers. One pattern has them set to OVERHEAD and the other set to HEIGHT, all else is equal. I made two SCENES and made them switch between the two. At any given moment, I have a one button press on the remote to switch nearly instantly from HEIGHT to OVERHEAD designation.
Isn't the leakage of sound the processor trying to image the sound where it's supposed to be? Why wouldn't we want that?
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post #6021 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Yes.

Thankfully Yamaha has a very convenient tool to get past this. The system allows to program two 'patterns'. In the main system configuration screen, the top selection is called PATTERN. In here you can select Pattern1 or Pattern2.

Essentially, it is there to have two setups at once. For us doing lots of immersive audio, I have mine now set for Atmos and DTS:X as OVERHEAD mode and HEIGHT mode. Both patterns were saved as identical except the two pairs of presence speakers. One pattern has them set to OVERHEAD and the other set to HEIGHT, all else is equal. I made two SCENES and made them switch between the two. At any given moment, I have a one button press on the remote to switch nearly instantly from HEIGHT to OVERHEAD designation.

Works great. It's a work around but not that cumbersome at all using the SCENE feature.
So Scott, where are your height/overhead speakers located? Or are you saying that you have two complete sets of four speakers in each location?

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post #6022 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Unfortunately, you can not change the decoder type directly using the APP. You can do it but it's a process. You have to go to the 'remote' control portion, then hit ONSCREEN, then select the DSP option tab, scroll through the DSP modes until you reach SURROUND DECODER at which you can hit UP on the directional pad to make adjustments. On this screen you can select one of several decoders including DSU and Neural:X.

Kind of annoying. You should be able to simply toggle through these choices by hitting the SURR DECODE button just like it works with the physical remote. I hope Yamaha fixes this.



Did mine wireless. No problem at all.
thanks for the help. I understand now. have a nice day
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post #6023 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 10:14 AM
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Perfect... thanks Scott. Now yamaha just needs to fix the issue with saving surround decoder types to different scenes.
Yes, that would be ideal. That or just have them fix the issue of the SURR DECODE button not allowing to cycle through decoders using the APP. It works fine this way if you're using the physical remote or if you're using a Harmony type universal remote and you use the remote code for that SURR DECODE button. I'm distancing myself from having to deal with Harmony remotes from now on so I hope they just update the APP to allow this decoder cycling.

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Isn't the leakage of sound the processor trying to image the sound where it's supposed to be? Why wouldn't we want that?
Well, it doesn't sound good. As a process, it's interesting but the results are inferior if you just let it do it's thing. Instead of clear, discrete height effects you get a sorta muddied phasey sound to those effects. Trust me, you want to use HEIGHT with DTS:X. It sounds correct that way.

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So Scott, where are your height/overhead speakers located? Or are you saying that you have two complete sets of four speakers in each location?
I have four presence speakers. Physically you could call my front pair HEIGHTS and my rear pair as TOP but I designate them both as OVERHEAD/TOP and have been with Atmos as I discovered that Atmos did not sound good when set to HEIGHT. The opposite is the case with DTS:X. Sounds better with both pairs as HEIGHT instead of OVERHEAD/TOP.
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post #6024 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 10:34 AM
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There is no such thing as 7.4.4 audio signal.

He is describing his system configuration as 7.1.4 but is using four subs.


Exactly.

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post #6025 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 10:35 AM
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I just checked that and mine (CX-A5100) is working like you want... Neural: X is here currently active for all sources, but once I start a Dolby Atmos flick, the Yamaha switches automatically to "Dolby Atmos". I can't remember that I set a special option for that...
If this is true then this is the best news I have heard since the DTS:X update :P ! I can't seem to find a way to do it. If I apply DSU on a DTS:X track or Neural:X and playback an ATMOS soundtrack, it stays in that "decode upmixer mode".

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Does it? I didn't try applying Neural:X to Atmos signals but I did try DSU on DTS:X tracks and it would apply DSU to the 5/7.1 downmix inside the DTS:X signal.

If I left it to STRAIGHT, it would decode DTS:X and show as DTS:X MA on the display. If I used SURROUND DECODER on the same clip it would now show as DTS-HD MA with Dolby Surround. I'll try it the other way around later today when I get home from the office.
Same for me, can't find a way around it. If there is a way, it would save me alot of hassle with the switching and checking out what kind of audio track the movie has.

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post #6026 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 10:41 AM
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Thxs,my 2050 must be in a dead spot for wireless,funny I can use my tablet outside with no problems,I'll try the thumb drive method, I'm not going to unhook everything on the 2050 and move it into the house.
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post #6027 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Dude. That is a whole nother' discussion.

I'm just talking about discrete outputs that are of 'height' nature and they must be enabled to utilize any native Atmos/DTS:X decoding.

You can figure out the literal sense of the speaker layout portion yourself. Plenty of talk about that subject all over this forum.
You can utilize Dolby Atmos with just 7 base layer channels, no need of any Height channels. . Checked and rechecked couple of times.

But YES, it is not Atmos as it is supposed to be. Just saying that you stil can get Atmos decoding without height channels, but at least 7 base layer channels (L, R, C, SL, SR, SbL, SbR).

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post #6028 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 11:12 AM
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What's it decoding? The 7.1 layer is not Atmos.
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post #6029 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by makrelov View Post
You can utilize Dolby Atmos with just 7 base layer channels, no need of any Height channels. . Checked and rechecked couple of times.

But YES, it is not Atmos as it is supposed to be. Just saying that you stil can get Atmos decoding without height channels, but at least 7 base layer channels (L, R, C, SL, SR, SbL, SbR).

Regards,
Good to know. Thanks.
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post #6030 of 10588 Old 03-31-2016, 11:15 AM
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Set decoder to straight and DTSX MA now appears on the 3050 display, but no output from my surrounds. The receiver lights show all speakers. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Carter
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