The "OFFICIAL" Yamaha 1050/2050/3050 Owner's thread. - Page 204 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6091 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackman View Post
Excellent!!

And this is the reason why I made my first 4 scene to have Scene 1= Dolby Atmos, Scene 2 = Dolby True HD, Scene 3 = DTS X, Scene 4 = DTS HD Master Audio. each with there preferred.
settings to suit.


Care to share your preferred scene settings with the class? I've got Atmos and DTS:X scenes set but planned to just piggyback off them for the non-object counterparts respectively. I'd like to know how others have configured theirs.

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post #6092 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 06:34 PM
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Using decoders with Yamaha 3050

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackreign66 View Post
You should use straight for DTS:X tracks as well. For non atmos and DTS:X disc you can use either straight, one of the many DSPs, or either of the 2 upmixers either it being Neural:X or Dolby Surround.
Thanks for the clarification but on the 2 upmixers, I was using surround until neural:X showed up after update.
Is there a rule of thumb on a preferred choice? (surround/neural)
Atmos pretty easy then and DTS:X. Whereas when playing a DTS:X disc only way you know it's correctly playing is when the 3050 display is set to straight ? (to get true DTS:X).
If a disc is 7.1 and you choose no specific DSPs, it will still play in 7.1? I guess my confusion lies in the DSPs modes and if it takes away sound from certain speakers and so on. For example, choosing stereo will give you just that but 9ch gives you more.
I'm I making any sense? Once I get it, I got it.

Last edited by HDTVGCL; 03-31-2016 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Spelling
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post #6093 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 06:50 PM
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Additionally, if I have a Xbox 1 and PS4. Noticed on PS4 Yamaha displaying PCM.
Is there a correct way to set both of these consoles for proper decoding?
Going out HDMI to 3050 then to hdtv. Looking for best sound output.
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post #6094 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTVGCL View Post
Thanks for the clarification but on the 2 upmixers, I was using surround until neural:X showed up after update.
Is there a rule of thumb on a preferred choice? (surround/neural)
Atmos pretty easy then and DTS:X. Whereas when playing a DTS:X disc only way you know it's correctly playing is when the 3050 display is set to straight ? (to get true DTS:X).
If a disc is 7.1 and you choose no specific DSPs, it will still play in 7.1? I guess my confusion lies in the DSPs modes and if it takes away sound from certain speakers and so on. For example, choosing stereo will give you just that but 9ch gives you more.
I'm I making any sense? Once I get it, I got it.
If you choose Neural:X and play a DTS:X encoded disc it will display as DTS:X MA, likewise if you choose Dolby Surround and play a Atmos encoded disc it will display as Atmos/TrueHD. If you choose Neural:X and play a Atmos disc it will display as TrueHD on top of Neural:X, likewise with choosing Dolby Surround when playing an DTS:X track it will display as DTSHD-MA on top of Dolby Surround. I would say use whatever upmixer sounds best to you.
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post #6095 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackreign66 View Post
If you choose Neural:X and play a DTS:X encoded disc it will display as DTS:X MA, likewise if you choose Dolby Surround and play a Atmos encoded disc it will display as Atmos/TrueHD. If you choose Neural:X and play a Atmos disc it will display as TrueHD on top of Neural:X, likewise with choosing Dolby Surround when playing an DTS:X track it will display as DTSHD-MA on top of Dolby Surround. I would say use whatever upmixer sounds best to you.
Ok, got it on the Atmos and DTS front. My question if making sense is if I play the (older) 5.1 disc pre-Atmos, I just use the DSPs that sound best to my ears? The 5.1 or 7.1 disc will still decode properly?
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post #6096 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVGCL View Post
Additionally, if I have a Xbox 1 and PS4. Noticed on PS4 Yamaha displaying PCM.
Is there a correct way to set both of these consoles for proper decoding?
Going out HDMI to 3050 then to hdtv. Looking for best sound output.
I believe both must be set to bitstream audio instead of decoding it themselves.
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post #6097 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by blackreign66 View Post
I believe both must be set to bitstream audio instead of decoding it themselves.
I believe that's what I read as well to bitstream. I just checked XB1 and saw,
HDMI audio is bitstream was on 7.1 uncompressed.
Optical is bitstream
Bitstream format is DTS digital surround.
Display on XB1 is now DTS instead of PCM as before.
So that's what I should see?

Will check settings for PS4 and set for bitstream.
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post #6098 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVGCL View Post
Ok, got it on the Atmos and DTS front. My question if making sense is if I play the (older) 5.1 disc pre-Atmos, I just use the DSPs that sound best to my ears? The 5.1 or 7.1 disc will still decode properly?
Honestly i can't really comment on the DSPs because i don't use them, but i believe the 5.1 or 7.1 disc will still decode properly.

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post #6100 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by urbeenjammin View Post
Just did some "testing" regarding using "height" for DTS:X and "overhead" for Atmos.
Height does sound much better for DTS"X.
But when I played the atmos amaze trailer and the atmos leaf trailer using add-on modules on top of my speakers, the "dolby enabled sp" setting sounded fuller with sounds coming from above while "overhead" sounded closer to the center more so than above.Just my 2 cents...
What is the thinking about using Neural:X - also set to "Height" rather than "Overhead"? This difference between the formats is quite a surprising upturn considering DTS's original position was that it would adapt to whatever speaker layout the user has.
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post #6101 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTVGCL View Post
I believe that's what I read as well to bitstream. I just checked XB1 and saw,
HDMI audio is bitstream was on 7.1 uncompressed.
Optical is bitstream
Bitstream format is DTS digital surround.
Display on XB1 is now DTS instead of PCM as before.
So that's what I should see?

Will check settings for PS4 and set for bitstream.
I remember reading somewhere that the XBOX one had issues bitstreaming hi res audio where as the PS4 doesn't have issues. Maybe another member can chime in on this.

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post #6102 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 07:39 PM
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The "OFFICIAL" Yamaha 1050/2050/3050 Owner's thread.

Firmware update on the 3050 successfully performed and DTS:X confirmed to be working with a few minutes of Ex Machina tonight.


Set scene for DTS:X using pattern 1>2 copy from Atmos then changing presence from overhead to height like Scott described and turned Straight to on.

I haven't experimented with Neural:X yet.




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post #6103 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackreign66 View Post
If you choose Neural:X and play a DTS:X encoded disc it will display as DTS:X MA, likewise if you choose Dolby Surround and play a Atmos encoded disc it will display as Atmos/TrueHD. If you choose Neural:X and play a Atmos disc it will display as TrueHD on top of Neural:X, likewise with choosing Dolby Surround when playing an DTS:X track it will display as DTSHD-MA on top of Dolby Surround. I would say use whatever upmixer sounds best to you.
Just went to go verify how this is working...

So this is what I've found: It all depends on what surround decoder you have chosen. Likely case is either DSU or Neural:X.

If you watch an Atmos title and have your surround decoder selected to DSU, it will properly decode Atmos whether STRAIGHT or SURROUND DECODE is selected as the mode. If you play back a DTS:X signal with SURROUND DECODE selected, it will upmix the 7.1 layer using DSU.

Likewise, if you watch a DTS:X title and have your surround decoder selected to Neural:X, it will properly decode DTS:X whether STRAIGHT or SURROUND DECODE is selected as the mode. If you play back a Dolby Atmos signal with SURROUND DECODE selected, it will upmix the 7.1 layer using Neural:X.

So it's a safe bet to use STRAIGHT if you want to make sure you decode the native Atmos/DTS:X signal no matter what you've chosen as your default surround decoder. If you leave it in SURROUND DECODE mode, there is a 50/50 chance it won't decode a native signal and instead upmix the core.


Hope that explains for some.
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post #6104 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 08:17 PM
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Is there any way to set settings to automatically decode depending on your preference.

The last thing I need is to be constantly switching between audio settings for each movie.
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post #6105 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueEarth View Post
HE IS CORRECT.
While Atmos decoding kicks in with at least 7.1. DTS:X will kick in only with 5.1 speakers.
Proof that it does decoding the source not as bed channel but as an object? Try DTS:X demo All around us with 5.1 or 7.1 only and you can adjust the dialogue object even without actual or virtual presence/overhead speakers.
But I guess everyone here will still said no even with proof shoved into their face.
Yes Lee, I can confirm it with my 5.1 only.
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post #6106 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 10:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtoronto View Post
What is the thinking about using Neural:X - also set to "Height" rather than "Overhead"? This difference between the formats is quite a surprising upturn considering DTS's original position was that it would adapt to whatever speaker layout the user has.
"... to whatever the user has." Yes, I thought the same too; but since the first apparition of dts:x and its up-mixer the cards have changed.
It seems that dts has a preferred speaker position selection, and Atmos another one. With Marantz/Denon some speaker position selection works fine with both dts and Atmos, but it took some time to discover and adjust. Now with Yamaha, owners have to experiment as well to find the best selections.

But true, we all thought that dts could easily adapt to any speaker positioning, and people also discovered that it was affecting Atmos speaker's positioning in its own selections.

Methinks that with time they'll be further improvement/refinements and additional features, just like Audyssey @ the beginning (or YPAO) and now today where it's @ (more advanced and precise with more settings and parameters).

Yeah, dts said that before, but they didn't say else much. Anyway, Yamaha has still the advantage; in the cross-pollination attribute.
And in a year, two-three from now, more refinements will be added as the software programmers from both Dolby and dts will learn some more along the way. ...With the manufacturers implementing their audio decoders and up-mixers.
* We didn't have any problem before with DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD. But those were discrete channels with precise speaker's positioning.
With objects it's different, in the ways that they interact with each other...Atmos, dts:x, and Auro-3D. ...More work now from us.

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post #6107 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 10:21 PM
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Care to share your preferred scene settings with the class? I've got Atmos and DTS:X scenes set but planned to just piggyback off them for the non-object counterparts respectively. I'd like to know how others have configured theirs.
Off my head if I remember correctly as I have not had my 3050 on for nearly 2 weeks and trust me I do forget easy
My SCENE 1 is called Dolby Atmos, Its set as Straight, I use no level lift for the centre channel, the Volume is set at -18 db, all 11 speakers are used with object base audio. Extra Bass is on at +3db, I use pattern A for speaker layout with above 4 speakers set as overheads.

My SCENE 2 is called Dolby True HD. Its set at DSU (dolby Surround) I use level volume lift set at 1 for the centre channel, volume set at 18 db all 11 speakers are used with object base audio. Extra bass is on at +3 db, Pattern A is used for the speaker layout, 4 presence speakers set as overheads.

MY SCENE 3 will be called DTS X, it will be set as straight, Not sure due to the DTS Update about the centre channel level increase, Volume set at16 db, Pattern B, using 11 speakers with height speakers to be set as heights not overheads, extra bass will be on not sure what level.

My Scene 4 will be called DTS Master Audio, set as Neural X, Not sure due to the DTS Update about the centre channel level increase, Volume set at16 db, Pattern B, using 11 speakers with height speakers to be set as heights not overheads, extra bass will be on not sure what level.

what I would like is at least 4 PATTERN'S not 2 like we have now. Plus your ir control to have at lease 6 scenes not 4 like we have now

Could have made a mistake somewhere as I have been busy with my new car

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post #6108 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueEarth View Post
HE IS CORRECT.
While Atmos decoding kicks in with at least 7.1. DTS:X will kick in only with 5.1 speakers.
Proof that it does decoding the source not as bed channel but as an object? Try DTS:X demo All around us with 5.1 or 7.1 only and you can adjust the dialogue object even without actual or virtual presence/overhead speakers.
But I guess everyone here will still said no even with proof shoved into their face.

For object based audio codecs, the concept is that interactive features, e.g., dialog level management, should function in any speaker configuration whether or not the speaker configuration is sufficient to support immersive audio playback, subject only to there being an appropriate decoder in use. Specifically, a "future TV" (2.0 speaker config) equipped with a DTS:X decoder should support dialog level management. (Similar functionality is expected from the Dolby AC-4 and [MPEGHAA] MPEG-H Audio codecs.)

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post #6109 of 10585 Old 03-31-2016, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackman View Post
Off my head if I remember correctly as I have not had my 3050 on for nearly 2 weeks and trust me I do forget easy
My SCENE 1 is called Dolby Atmos, Its set as Straight, I use no level lift for the centre channel, the Volume is set at -18 db, all 11 speakers are used with object base audio. Extra Bass is on at +3db, I use pattern A for speaker layout with above 4 speakers set as overheads.

My SCENE 2 is called Dolby True HD. Its set at DSU (dolby Surround) I use level volume lift set at 1 for the centre channel, volume set at 18 db all 11 speakers are used with object base audio. Extra bass is on at +3 db, Pattern A is used for the speaker layout, 4 presence speakers set as overheads.

MY SCENE 3 will be called DTS X, it will be set as straight, Not sure due to the DTS Update about the centre channel level increase, Volume set at16 db, Pattern B, using 11 speakers with height speakers to be set as heights not overheads, extra bass will be on not sure what level.

My Scene 4 will be called DTS Master Audio, set as Neural X, Not sure due to the DTS Update about the centre channel level increase, Volume set at16 db, Pattern B, using 11 speakers with height speakers to be set as heights not overheads, extra bass will be on not sure what level.

what I would like is at least 4 PATTERN'S not 2 like we have now. Plus your ir control to have at lease 6 scenes not 4 like we have now

Could have made a mistake somewhere as I have been busy with my new car
I don't think you will be able to 'save' a Surround Decoder 'type' with a Scene memory. This is an oversight from Yamaha. If you recall a Scene, the Surround Decoder recalled will just be your 'last used' surround decoder, whether it was Neural:X, DSU, ProLogicIIx Movie or whatever.

This is unfortunate, because just about every other conceivable parameter of the unit can be 'saved' by a snapshot with the Scene memories, but not Surround Decoder Type. Pity.
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post #6110 of 10585 Old 04-01-2016, 01:08 AM
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I've been a Denon guy for a long time now. Have never had any problems with any of the Denons I've owned. I am currently trying to sell my 4311 and was planning to get the 6200 so I could get into ATMOS/DTS X.
I have been following this thread and I am now tempted to give the Yamaha 3050 a shot as my next receiver. I like the fact that you can cross pollinate up mixers, not lose PLIix music,along with some other features I've read about in this thread. I do wish YPAO eq went below 31 hz and I do like having HD radio on my 4311.
If I get the 3050, I hope all the Yamaha experts here will be patient with the many questions I'm sure I will have.
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I do not think it is actually a good idea to set DtsX with height instead of overhead when the speakers are actually n that position.
DtsX is agnostic to speaker position and it will place the sound in the position it was intended for.
Trying to tell the decoder to re-route to another position, is actually going to get the sound in the wrong position.
Atmos uses X,Y,Z coordinates to move sound around the speakers while DtsX uses polar coordinates.
So if a sound is intended to be placed let's say above and in front of your right back speaker, if you leave the ceiling speakers set to overhead, the sound will be correctly placed in the position it was intended to be by emitting sound from Right Back and Overhead Right Back.
If you change your decoder's layout, the sound will be wrongly placed in the Overhead Back Right only as you are actually telling the decoder that you have a fisical speaker where the sound was intended to be placed.
As long that those that are adopting this solution are happy, then there is no reason not to leave it that way.
However, I would not suggest to make a statement that there are actually two different placements for Atmos and DtsX and Dts was quite redundent on this aspect of its decoder.
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I've been a Denon guy for a long time now. Have never had any problems with any of the Denons I've owned. I am currently trying to sell my 4311 and was planning to get the 6200 so I could get into ATMOS/DTS X.
I have been following this thread and I am now tempted to give the Yamaha 3050 a shot as my next receiver. I like the fact that you can cross pollinate up mixers, not lose PLIix music,along with some other features I've read about in this thread. I do wish YPAO eq went below 31 hz and I do like having HD radio on my 4311.
If I get the 3050, I hope all the Yamaha experts here will be patient with the many questions I'm sure I will have.
If you ask about features other than surround, chances are low that you will get answers. Disclosure: I still follow because I like surround too. Plus, I don't have a Yamaha (yet).
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If you ask about features other than surround, chances are low that you will get answers. Disclosure: I still follow because I like surround too. Plus, I don't have a Yamaha (yet).
9 posts in 3 years...yeah.
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Originally Posted by Blackman View Post
Off my head if I remember correctly as I have not had my 3050 on for nearly 2 weeks and trust me I do forget easy
My SCENE 1 is called Dolby Atmos, Its set as Straight, I use no level lift for the centre channel, the Volume is set at -18 db, all 11 speakers are used with object base audio. Extra Bass is on at +3db, I use pattern A for speaker layout with above 4 speakers set as overheads.

My SCENE 2 is called Dolby True HD. Its set at DSU (dolby Surround) I use level volume lift set at 1 for the centre channel, volume set at 18 db all 11 speakers are used with object base audio. Extra bass is on at +3 db, Pattern A is used for the speaker layout, 4 presence speakers set as overheads.

MY SCENE 3 will be called DTS X, it will be set as straight, Not sure due to the DTS Update about the centre channel level increase, Volume set at16 db, Pattern B, using 11 speakers with height speakers to be set as heights not overheads, extra bass will be on not sure what level.

My Scene 4 will be called DTS Master Audio, set as Neural X, Not sure due to the DTS Update about the centre channel level increase, Volume set at16 db, Pattern B, using 11 speakers with height speakers to be set as heights not overheads, extra bass will be on not sure what level.

what I would like is at least 4 PATTERN'S not 2 like we have now. Plus your ir control to have at lease 6 scenes not 4 like we have now

Could have made a mistake somewhere as I have been busy with my new car


Thanks for the info Blackman. That is essentially what I have done, sans the expect volume levels and trim settings.

New cars are always fun, particularly when they come from Germany for me

speeddeacon

Atmos/DTS:X 7.1.4
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post #6115 of 10585 Old 04-01-2016, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ChldsPlay View Post
Is there any idea on when the A3060 might be announced?
Maybe May, I've been told.I've also been told that the difference between the the 3050 and the 3060 is minor. I got this info from someone who signed an NDA. I went ahead with the 3050 based on this persons info.
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post #6116 of 10585 Old 04-01-2016, 03:52 AM
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Delete.

Last edited by Movie78; 04-01-2016 at 10:19 AM.
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post #6117 of 10585 Old 04-01-2016, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueEarth View Post
HE IS CORRECT.
While Atmos decoding kicks in with at least 7.1. DTS:X will kick in only with 5.1 speakers.
Proof that it does decoding the source not as bed channel but as an object? Try DTS:X demo All around us with 5.1 or 7.1 only and you can adjust the dialogue object even without actual or virtual presence/overhead speakers.
But I guess everyone here will still said no even with proof shoved into their face.
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Originally Posted by Ilikeelectronics View Post
Yes Lee, I can confirm it with my 5.1 only.
I am still deciding which receiver to get. Since you both mentioned DTS:X works with 5.1 systems, can you tell me how it sounds compared to "regular" non DTS:X? Again, I'm just trying to research to see if a DTS:X receiver is what I want. Although, i'm not sure which receivers each of you have, I'm mostly looking at the 1050.
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post #6118 of 10585 Old 04-01-2016, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by de8212 View Post
I am still deciding which receiver to get. Since you both mentioned DTS:X works with 5.1 systems, can you tell me how it sounds compared to "regular" non DTS:X? Again, I'm just trying to research to see if a DTS:X receiver is what I want. Although, i'm not sure which receivers each of you have, I'm mostly looking at the 1050.
I have a 1050. You can do what you want with receiver. Just leave it on straight or direct pure mode and it will naturally decode the output. But it can do much more.
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post #6119 of 10585 Old 04-01-2016, 06:08 AM
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Did the update this morning. Enabled Neural X. Didn't notice much difference, but to be fair, I watch the news in the morning, so probably not the best content to test with.
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post #6120 of 10585 Old 04-01-2016, 06:19 AM
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Can anyone with the Samsung UHD blu-ray player confirm if HDR is being passed through the receiver correctly?
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