The "Official" Yamaha CX-A5100 AVP Owners thread - Page 141 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4201 of 4415 Old 10-31-2018, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jaygax View Post
1 month 5100 owner here. upgraded from marantz AV7200.

just wanna know if the latest firmware update includes compatibility with the latest eARC from TV. or is eARC only available on the 5200?
5200 only
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post #4202 of 4415 Old 10-31-2018, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jasonmichaelh View Post
5200 only
oh that sucks! way beyond my budget. i just got the 5100 from accessories 4 less. i love the DSPs though. marantz don't have DSPs.

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post #4203 of 4415 Old 10-31-2018, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jaygax View Post
oh that sucks! way beyond my budget. i just got the 5100 from accessories 4 less. i love the DSPs though. marantz don't have DSPs.
Doesn't accessories for less only carry refurbs?

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post #4204 of 4415 Old 11-01-2018, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
Me too. I have the processor constantly set on DSU. I dont want a manual step introduced like switching to DTS when starting a movie.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
In that respect, using a Yamaha DSP mode would be better I think, it's set and forget and also does angle compensation.

I quite like Sci-Fi or the more recent "enhanced" and it seems to work with any format.

Dolby are really being very dodgy with this DTS: N blocking of their format. I'm not impressed with that at all.
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post #4205 of 4415 Old 11-01-2018, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Nemesis.ie View Post
In that respect, using a Yamaha DSP mode would be better I think, it's set and forget and also does angle compensation.

I quite like Sci-Fi or the more recent "enhanced" and it seems to work with any format.

Dolby are really being very dodgy with this DTS: N blocking of their format. I'm not impressed with that at all.
Is the Yamaha DSP automatically detecting DTS vs Dolby and assigning the correct decoding format? Why the heck isn't Yamaha able to detect this even though omitting their "Munich Concert Hall" DSP settings...

I'm not using the Yamaha room correction though (I have a better standalone DSP-solution) so angle compensation will not benefit in my setup.

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post #4206 of 4415 Old 11-01-2018, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
Is the Yamaha DSP automatically detecting DTS vs Dolby and assigning the correct decoding format?
you are confused and messing up between "decoding" and "upmixing/processing"...
the Yamaha choses the decoder according to the input signal format, of course!
but there is absolutely no reason (technically) why a DD signal should be upmixed by DSU or anything else from Dolby only and a dts signal by a dts upmixer.
fortunately the Yamaha still gives the user the opportunity to chose.

Quote:
Why the heck isn't Yamaha able to detect this even though omitting their "Munich Concert Hall" DSP settings...
that's for lazy people who aren't interested in the best sound result but just want to be overruled by the machine with inappropriate settings
i have some favorite movies as DVD with dts sound and bought them again as (UHD) BD with DD sound. Why should they be processed by different upmixers? It's the same sound! The Yamaha choses the correct decoder.

Quote:
I'm not using the Yamaha room correction though (I have a better standalone DSP-solution) so angle compensation will not benefit in my setup.
you are waisting a lot of potential of your Yamaha!
there are ways to to utilize standalone DSP together with the YPAO features.
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post #4207 of 4415 Old 11-01-2018, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
you are confused and messing up between "decoding" and "upmixing/processing"...
the Yamaha choses the decoder according to the input signal format, of course!
but there is absolutely no reason (technically) why a DD signal should be upmixed by DSU or anything else from Dolby only and a dts signal by a dts upmixer.
fortunately the Yamaha still gives the user the opportunity to chose.
No, I'm not.

What I want:
1 Upmix non-immersive sources to immersive sound (Aka 7.1 to 7.1.4)
2 Play immersive sources in their native immersive format (Play 7.1.4 sources 100% as intended)
3 I do not want to change settings depending on format

When choosing DSU which covers 1 and 3, then 2 is not satisfied as Yamaha does NOT change decoder according to input format. It works for Atmos, but if the source is a DTS:X 7.1.4 signal, DSU sees this as a 7.1 source and upmixes. Hence 2 is not fulfilled.

So if I have misunderstood and the Yamaha can actually do this then that is great! But I asked earlier in this thread and was adviced that this is only possible with the new 5200-model.

Do you know how I can satisfy all three criterias with the 5100?

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post #4208 of 4415 Old 11-01-2018, 10:49 AM
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You could maybe try the "enhanced" DSP option and try turning down the delays etc. and see what that sounds like?

The DSP modes do pick the right decoder, e.g. Atmos or DTS-X and then apply the selected sound field on top.

You can fiddle more easily with some of the sound field setting on the phone app or web interface.
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post #4209 of 4415 Old 11-01-2018, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
No, I'm not.

What I want:
1 Upmix non-immersive sources to immersive sound (Aka 7.1 to 7.1.4)
2 Play immersive sources in their native immersive format (Play 7.1.4 sources 100% as intended)
3 I do not want to change settings depending on format

When choosing DSU which covers 1 and 3, then 2 is not satisfied as Yamaha does NOT change decoder according to input format. It works for Atmos, but if the source is a DTS:X 7.1.4 signal, DSU sees this as a 7.1 source and upmixes. Hence 2 is not fulfilled.

So if I have misunderstood and the Yamaha can actually do this then that is great! But I asked earlier in this thread and was adviced that this is only possible with the new 5200-model.

Do you know how I can satisfy all three criterias with the 5100?
I have had the 5100 since day one and I do not believe there is a way to do what you want, satisfy all three criteria. My solution is I leave it on DSU and only switch when playing a disc with DTS. Thats about the only time you need to switch. TV is DD, AppleTV and most streamers use Dolby. The only place you find DTS is discs.

Hopefully this helps.
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post #4210 of 4415 Old 11-07-2018, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post
Doesn't accessories for less only carry refurbs?
yes. selling refurbs for less. purchased my 5100 for $1,699. first one i received got an issue with the right channel volume. did some trouble shooting and emailed them about it. they let me return it and sent me another one. it's what i have now. no issues. loving it.
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post #4211 of 4415 Old 11-07-2018, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jaygax View Post
1 month 5100 owner here. upgraded from marantz AV7200.

just wanna know if the latest firmware update includes compatibility with the latest eARC from TV. or is eARC only available on the 5200?

The AV5100 lacks the hardware to support eARC. Firmware (software) won't remediate that deficiency.

Given a TV that supports eARC (support "should" come with 2019 models), eARC will be a really nice feature going forward. ARC today with a newer TV and AVR/AVP is already nice.
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post #4212 of 4415 Old 11-17-2018, 04:06 AM
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Bah. I'd gone a few months without one hiccup on my audio and just had another of those famed dropouts that I was getting on the 2.05 firmware. Hadn't had one since updating to 2.58 and boom, just hit me again. I wonder if my 5100 just has a crap HDMI controller sample in it.

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post #4213 of 4415 Old 11-17-2018, 12:22 PM
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Yamaha cxa5100 not switching off when there’s no external audio input

Hi! My Sony TV is hooked up to my external speakers via the Yamaha CXA5100! This allows me to listen to my TV via the TV speakers or the external speakers! So when I switch my speakers from TV to external speakers using the TV remote control, it turns on my Yamaha and powers up my external speakers! However, when I switch back to TV speakers (from the external speakers), my Yamaha doesn’t turn itself off (it used to do it in the past). Instead, the Yamaha only goes into the MUTE mode! Please help make my Yamaha turn itself off automatically when I switch the speaker sources on the TV! Thank you!
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post #4214 of 4415 Old 11-19-2018, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Thanhtranmd View Post
Hi! My Sony TV is hooked up to my external speakers via the Yamaha CXA5100! This allows me to listen to my TV via the TV speakers or the external speakers! So when I switch my speakers from TV to external speakers using the TV remote control, it turns on my Yamaha and powers up my external speakers! However, when I switch back to TV speakers (from the external speakers), my Yamaha doesn’t turn itself off (it used to do it in the past). Instead, the Yamaha only goes into the MUTE mode! Please help make my Yamaha turn itself off automatically when I switch the speaker sources on the TV! Thank you!
Have you looked at the the Auto Power Standby feature? page 142 in UM.
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post #4215 of 4415 Old 11-20-2018, 06:50 AM
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Hi,

New here. I finally found a smoking deal on an open-box CX-A5100 and couldn't pass it up. A little late in the life cycle but what a nice preamp!

I'm using an Emotiva XPR-5 for center and bi-amped LR mains. Connecting via XLR on both ends (including the Ashley xover).

I also have an Emotiva A500 to run the LR surrounds, the mono rear surround, and Zone 2 LR (patio).

The problem is that the A500 is RCA input vs. XLR on the XPR-5. I read that the signal level spec on the CX-A5100 RCA out is 1V and the XLR is 2V (balanced). To keep everything equal, I was planning on ordering some XLR to RCA cables (pin 2 hot).

Has anyone had this experience? Any problem with tying pin 3 to ground or should I leave it floating?

Or, am I just over-complicating the issue and should use RCA to RCA for all Emo A500 inputs and simply adjust levels accordingly?

Thanks for any help on the issue.

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post #4216 of 4415 Old 11-20-2018, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by tomlink View Post
Hi,

New here. I finally found a smoking deal on an open-box CX-A5100 and couldn't pass it up. A little late in the life cycle but what a nice preamp!

I'm using an Emotiva XPR-5 for center and bi-amped LR mains. Connecting via XLR on both ends (including the Ashley xover).

I also have an Emotiva A500 to run the LR surrounds, the mono rear surround, and Zone 2 LR (patio).

The problem is that the A500 is RCA input vs. XLR on the XPR-5. I read that the signal level spec on the CX-A5100 RCA out is 1V and the XLR is 2V (balanced). To keep everything equal, I was planning on ordering some XLR to RCA cables (pin 2 hot).

Has anyone had this experience? Any problem with tying pin 3 to ground or should I leave it floating?

Or, am I just over-complicating the issue and should use RCA to RCA for all Emo A500 inputs and simply adjust levels accordingly?

Thanks for any help on the issue.

This nonsense, why are you repeating it here? You are just confusing other people. Did you read the user manual for the CX-A5100? A standard CD output is nominally 2.0 V. Are you claiming that the CX-A5100 won't produce a standard CD voltage output?

From page 183 of the user manual:

Maximum Output Level (0.06%)

(RCA Unbalanced Preouts)

All channels are listed as at least: 4.0 V or more

(XLR Balanced Preout)

All channels are listed as at least 8.0 V or more

Have you reason to suspect that the user manual is incorrect? For reference, the actual physical design the CX-A5100 matches with producing the output specified in the user manual.


Running XLR outputs into SE inputs makes little sense and is almost always a bad idea. Grounding pin 3 likely will overheat the output circuitry of the preamp. Usually equipment warns against such a practice.


Emotiva has odd XLR inputs on at least the Gen3 amplifiers with pins 2 and 3 reversed.


Bottom line: It is best to use all SE in your case. Low and even medium quality XLR input circuits are electrically noisier than SE inputs, and don't do a good job of removing common mode noise.
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post #4217 of 4415 Old 11-20-2018, 01:37 PM
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Thank you for the kind comments.

The CX-A5100 manual includes "Rated" and "Maximum" outputs. What you refer to as nonsense is included in the manual on page 183.

The point I was making is that the signal amplitude was double from RCA to XLR. I wanted to know if anyone had been successful in matching outputs when the configuration included outputs from both the RCA and XLR outputs.

Emotiva confirmed that all their amplifier XLR inputs will be pin-2 hot, or pin-2 in-phase with the output. The EMO XLR input does include a differential input for noise rejection.

In my 20+ years experience in pro audio, balanced XLR audio connections are always preferred over SE precisely for the benefit of common-mode noise rejection.

I find it hard to believe that any XLR circuitry on the CX-A5100 or Emotiva XPR-5 would be considered low or medium quality - necessitating the use of SE for best audio quality.

In any case, just to be safe, I think I'll try and run XLR to RCA for the Emo X-500 with pin-2 hot and let pin 3 float. At least levels will match.

Determining the configuration is always half the fun of new gear...

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post #4218 of 4415 Old 11-21-2018, 12:17 AM
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no fights, no offense

all are right ... somehow

sure, if you want to transport a low level audio signal over a long distance in a "electrical noisy" environment a symmetrical transmission is the method to go for.
but that's less important in a home environment.
to make it clear: XLR/symmetrical is never "better", it's less susceptible for interferences, that's all. As long as you don't have any noise due to interferences the asymmetrical RCA is "god enough" or even better.

the point is:
the CX-A5000 is operating asymmetrical internally, the native signal is RCA. To get XLR additional OP-amps are needed in the signal path to create symmetrical XLR signals. If you use passive XLR->RCA adapter you loose all electrical advantages of XLR, actually it becomes an asymmetric line.
so in the end it's "cleverer" to use the native RCA terminals instead of going the XLR detour.

the levels are something different.
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post #4219 of 4415 Old 11-21-2018, 07:43 AM
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Thanks Mickey.

I do have some distance from the CX-A5100 to the Emo XPR-5 which is why the noise rejection is an important consideration. Of course, only using pin-2 for the XLR-to-RCA negates the noise rejection for the path to the Emo A-500 but at least the levels should be closer (the XPR-5 is for critical listening - the X-500 for surrounds).

IAC, I've got cables for both configs so I can go back and for the to determine which issue is paramount, level matching or noise rejection.

I appreciate your help.

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post #4220 of 4415 Old 11-21-2018, 09:44 AM
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the levels are the same
let's consider you have 1V RCA and 2V XLR. The 2V are measured between "hot" and "cold" and usually that means hot is 1V above ground and cold -1V below ground.
using an adapter between hot and ground from XLR to RCA gives you the 1V you get from the "native" RCA out as well...
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post #4221 of 4415 Old 11-21-2018, 11:30 AM
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Mickey,

Yamaha tech support confirmed your statement on levels. When I saw in the manual that the XLR output levels were double that of the RCA, I was guessing that the RCA outs were consumer level like -10dBu or 0dBu and the XLR were pro level like +4dBu (x2). This would have provided a better S/N ratio plus the benefit of common-mode noise reduction.

Since XLR pin2 output level is the same as the RCA, my only benefit is the common-mode noise reduction (only on balanced differential connections - obviously not XLR to SE RCA).

Thanks again for your help.

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post #4222 of 4415 Old 11-22-2018, 06:00 AM
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I'm really not sure what the fuss with the XLR outputs is about. When I migrated from an RX-Z11 using RCA outputs to my Outlaw Audio power amps to a CX-A5000 at the time, using the XLR outputs of the 5000 to the amps, I experienced a noticeable drop in noise from the speakers in my system. I have continued using the XLR connections since then as I migrated to a 5100 and now 5200.

So, can someone enlighten me as to what the issue with using the XLR outputs of the Yamaha preamps is?

1) JVC DLA-NX7 & Sony 65Z9D, Yamaha CX-A5200, Outlaw Audio 7900 & 7700, UDP-203, DP-UB9000, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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post #4223 of 4415 Old 11-22-2018, 07:07 AM
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there is no "issue" using the XLR outputs, but usually there is no advantage either.

- the CX-A5x00 are operating asymmetrical internally. So the "native" signal is asymmetrical/RCA, for the XLR outputs additional electronics is needed in the signal path. That doesn't hurt but doesn't increase the quality for sure.
- if you are using a XLR->RCA adapter you loose all electrical advantages for the transmission and you have the additional conversion (see above) in the path. The only advantage is the mechanical stability pf the XLR connection.
- if everything is correct, there is absolutely no noise even with a RCA connection.

it's somehow different when using the MX-A5000 power amp, it uses a "strange" input stage.
the RCA inputs are converted to symmetrical and the switching between RCA/XLR is done on this symmetrical level. The next stage converts the chosen signal back to asymmetrical.

so in a CX-A/MX-A combination you always have one stupid extra conversion between RCA/XLR in the signal path, irrespective of wich connection you chose.
RCA: first asymmetric to symmetric and symmetric to asymmetric again in the MX-A
XLR: asymmetric to symmetric in the CX-A and symmetric to asymmetric in the MX-A
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post #4224 of 4415 Old 11-23-2018, 05:56 AM
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Well, since I'm using the Outlaw Audio amps that are symmetric throughout it still seems best to convert the signal to symmetric before sending it out over the wires.

1) JVC DLA-NX7 & Sony 65Z9D, Yamaha CX-A5200, Outlaw Audio 7900 & 7700, UDP-203, DP-UB9000, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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post #4225 of 4415 Old 11-23-2018, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomlink View Post
Mickey,

Yamaha tech support confirmed your statement on levels. When I saw in the manual that the XLR output levels were double that of the RCA, I was guessing that the RCA outs were consumer level like -10dBu or 0dBu and the XLR were pro level like +4dBu (x2). This would have provided a better S/N ratio plus the benefit of common-mode noise reduction.

Since XLR pin2 output level is the same as the RCA, my only benefit is the common-mode noise reduction (only on balanced differential connections - obviously not XLR to SE RCA).

Thanks again for your help.

Please read the Nominal Levels section of this Wikipedia entry. The entry provides the correct values for Pro and Consumer nominal levels. The entry also explains the difference between dBu and dBV, which is important to understanding the difference between these two levels. It would be nice of you if you would upgrade your post with the correct information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level


Here is calculator the enables easy conversion between dBV and dBu:

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm
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post #4226 of 4415 Old 11-29-2018, 03:03 AM
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Hello,

I have a problem with my Yamaha CX-A5100 receiver. I don't know which forum is most suitable for my problem, but this was the only big forum i had found.
My problem: the Yamaha CX-A5100 no longer emits HDMI signals on HDMI 1. Yesterday I found out with startup that there was no screen... My receiver has always works fine, and ALL the settings are alright. I have switched HDMI cables, but nothing works. Then I tried HDMI 2, changed the settings to HDMI 2 out, and it works. But back to HDMI 1, no Image... very weird.

I tried also:
- al different settings.
- the latest firmware update (2.60)
- al kind of HDMI cables.
- al kind of screens. (TV computer screens, all the same thing: only HDMI 2 works.
- ADVANCED menu, all settings. Monitor check on Yes and Skip.
- factory settings reset (all the settings)
- plug out power supply, wait a few hours.

Does anyone have experience with this problem? I like my Yahaha CXa5100 very much, i have enjoyed it for years, never problems...

Sorry for my bad English... (Dutch)

kind regards, Jeff

PROBLEM SOLVED, Water damage had oxidize the print... after cleaning everything was fine.

Last edited by JeffMennen; 01-10-2019 at 02:42 PM.
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post #4227 of 4415 Old 11-30-2018, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffMennen View Post
...the Yamaha CX-A5100 no longer emits HDMI signals on HDMI 1. Yesterday I found out with startup that there was no screen...
I'm sure you've already checked this, but, just in case, on the settings web page, is Output - Out_1 set to "On?"

PS: I wish my Dutch were half as good as your English!
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post #4228 of 4415 Old 11-30-2018, 08:07 AM
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^^^ + if using Scenes the the two HDMI Outputs can be turned On or Off for each scene.
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post #4229 of 4415 Old 11-30-2018, 10:34 AM
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Thanks for responding.

No, the settings on the webpage are all right. The scenes are also all right.
But no, the problem is different. Yesterday I found out something else, while watching a movie, HDMI2 also stop working.

The screen went on and off, the TV reported that the signal could not be read.

If I reset the whole player in andanced menu, HDMI (2) works again. In HDMI 1 still no life.

I found this on the internet: ''kscapeowners yamaha cxa5100 alto'' (with Google, i can't drop a link in this forum, too few posts..)
Is that possible? It always works fine.

Anybody?
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post #4230 of 4415 Old 11-30-2018, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffMennen View Post
Thanks for responding.

No, the settings on the webpage are all right. The scenes are also all right.
But no, the problem is different. Yesterday I found out something else, while watching a movie, HDMI2 also stop working.

The screen went on and off, the TV reported that the signal could not be read.

If I reset the whole player in andanced menu, HDMI (2) works again. In HDMI 1 still no life.

I found this on the internet: ''kscapeowners yamaha cxa5100 alto'' (with Google, i can't drop a link in this forum, too few posts..)
Is that possible? It always works fine.

Anybody?
Not sure what "that" means.

You mentioned trying multiple HDMI cables. Do you have Certified Premium HDMI cables? Does the problem happen with SD, HD and UHD content?
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