The "Official" Yamaha CX-A5100 AVP Owners thread - Page 143 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4261 of 4473 Old 12-17-2018, 04:54 PM
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I apologize for this question but my search skills are poor. After searching Yamaha's site, Google, and this thread, I'm still not finding the info I need.

I have an opportunity to buy an open box 5100 but it lacks a power cable, antenna, and the YPAO mic. My questions:

1. I have the mic that came with my RX-A2040. Will it work with the 5100? If not, what part number should I look for? I'm finding several online (Amazon, Google) but none that leave me with confidence that they're meant for the 5100.

2. Is there anything unique about the power cable that comes with the 5100 or will basically any cable do if it has the correct plug orientation. Is there any spec I should look for?

"Being unable to assume an initial premise with any tolerable degree of accuracy, I am loathe to assert a conclusion fearful lest I should err."
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post #4262 of 4473 Old 12-18-2018, 12:17 AM
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I'm sure the mic from the 2040 will do in general.
I compared the mic from my old Z11 and the 5100 and both delivered the same result.

But: the 5100 is capable of measuring the vertical angle/height of the top layer speakers!
1) you need the "boomerang" with the additional middle post for the 4. position
2) though the older (round instead of triangle) mics fit into the positions 1-3 you need the triangle one (with "nose") for the 4. position (or you need to do some tricks)

honestly I'm not sure about the sense for the vertical angle measurement. It's used for the DSP sound field processing only and not for Atmos/dts:X decoding (just to "guess" the type (height/overhead) of speakers). But if you buy such a machine, you usually want to use all its abilities. If so, you need to check if the boomerang is complete.

I'm pretty sure the power cable is 100% standard, but I'm from Europe and we have different types anyway.
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post #4263 of 4473 Old 12-18-2018, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
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I'm sure the mic from the 2040 will do in general.
I compared the mic from my old Z11 and the 5100 and both delivered the same result.

But: the 5100 is capable of measuring the vertical angle/height of the top layer speakers!
1) you need the "boomerang" with the additional middle post for the 4. position
2) though the older (round instead of triangle) mics fit into the positions 1-3 you need the triangle one (with "nose") for the 4. position (or you need to do some tricks)

honestly I'm not sure about the sense for the vertical angle measurement. It's used for the DSP sound field processing only and not for Atmos/dts:X decoding (just to "guess" the type (height/overhead) of speakers). But if you buy such a machine, you usually want to use all its abilities. If so, you need to check if the boomerang is complete.

I'm pretty sure the power cable is 100% standard, but I'm from Europe and we have different types anyway.
Thanks. I do have the boomerang. That was included.

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post #4264 of 4473 Old 12-19-2018, 03:23 PM
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Ok experts, I’ve got a real dilemma.

I picked up an open box 5100 Monday night. Last night I swapped it into my system in place of an RX-A2040. My setup used external amps — a Crown stereo amp for the mains, another Crown for my center, and surrounds and rears powered by a 5-channel Sherbourne that lost a channel about 7 years ago. I used the 2040 to power two front presence speakers.

With the 5100 in place of the 2040, I fired things up in a 7-channel setup (since I had no amp to power the front presence), set the speaker configuration, listened to some music, and confirmed that my Apple TV 4K could pass a signal to my projector. I then updated the firmware to 2.60 and went to bed.

Today I spent a good portion of the afternoon setting the 2040 up in my living room and moving my decade old RX-V3900 from the living room to my son’s room. That process then freed up the DSP-A1 that he’d been using so I could use it as a four-channel amp with the 5100.

After running speaker wire to rear presence speakers, I hooked them up to the DSP-A1, ran cables between the presence outputs on the 5100 to the multi-channel input on the DSP-A1. I turned on the 5100, updated the configuration to show the front and rear presence speakers, got the mic that came with my 2040, and started an auto setup with YPAO. It failed. Several times. I realized that it was sending tones to the subs and then hitting a brick wall when it got to the first main. I then went into the manual configuration and ran test tones. The subs were there, but the fronts and center were silent, I got the surrounds, the rears were silent, and then I got the presence speakers being powered by the DSP-A1. I’ve since removed them from the equation.

I’ve been unable to get any sound out of my mains, center, and rear. In other words, neither Crown amp is producing sound, and only two of the four channels from the Sherbourne are working. I’m now going over every cable but apart from the addition of presence speakers today, nothing changed from last night. I just unplugged every pre-amp output from the 5100 and ran a cable to the Crown amp powering my center. Still silent.

I’ve tried a reboot, I think. I read in the manual to hold the power button down for about 10 seconds. I did but saw nothing indicating that the 5100 had done anything except turn on.

So, please help with any suggestions for troubleshooting this problem. The 5100 worked great last night during the few minutes I played around. Most of my time today was spent simply running the speaker wire. When I finally connected the DSP-A1 to the 5100, both were unplugged. At no point did I do anything that made me think I’d screwed up by plugging something in while it was hot. The 5100 just isn’t working.

Thanks.

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post #4265 of 4473 Old 12-19-2018, 07:15 PM
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I gave up and returned it. After spending several hours swapping cables and watching as channels would come and go, I finally got through all eleven channels and the subs with test tones. I then tried YPAO and it couldn’t get past the surround channels. Eventually it told me that I was missing a front channel. Going back to test tones, all channels were there, but then I lost my front three when I tried to listen to music. I gave up.

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post #4266 of 4473 Old 01-05-2019, 07:00 PM
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I'm still getting the occasional HDMI audio dropouts from my computer with my 5100. Has anyone else had any problems when dealing with 192 KHz PCM and HDMI sync? For some reason or another this 5100 just doesn't like it very much.

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post #4267 of 4473 Old 01-06-2019, 01:49 AM
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I am (was) running Roon and Dirac Live on my HTPC which upsampled all music to 192kHz/24bit and had never any dropouts!
have you tried the Jitter correction setting? Maybe your PC sends a very poor HDMI signal/clock.

i have dropouts when playing DSD material from the NAS over the Oppo 103 though. But they are quite rarely, maybe one per 15 minutes and it's just a fraction of a second, more a "try short click" than a dropout. I'm pretty sure that's caused by the Oppo when reading from NAS, I never had this playing the original SACD.
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post #4268 of 4473 Old 01-06-2019, 02:35 AM
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What happens in the dropout is an initial dropout of a fraction of a second, followed by a resync of the music, then immediately followed by another droput for a fraction of a second. This usually goes for about 1.5 cycles (three total dropouts, with the third halting the playback app entirely). Since this is QuickTime and not a streaming app, it isn't network related. I've tried with the jitter settings at zero (meaning no corrections as the higher settings would drop out far more frequently). The weird thing is that it only affects PCM streaming. I've had it happen in QT, VLC, and Winamp via CrossOver (from within OS X). It never happens in any emulators or games, just playback apps.

It's either the 5100's controller or the 1080Ti's controller (I'm using the GPU's HDMI out for audio as I've disabled my IGP to lower CPU temps as I use a dedicated GPU). But this happened with both this GPU and the GTX 780 it replaced. The settings in Audio MIDI Setup in OS X are 2 ch @ 192 KHz so as to not have to worry about downsampling when playing back game sound files from Winamp using NotSoFatso and Alpha II (SNESAmp). I use 192 KHz because I've set the NES APU emulation upper frequency limiter to 384 KHz during sampling to allow for a high enough sampling to virtually eliminate the harsh jaggies introduced by the defaults of the IC in the NES. Notable improvements include smoothing out of the sound when inverting the frequency below 150 Hz (necessary if you're going to get any usable bass from NES chiptunes on a HT system with a subwoofer). The Shovel Knight OST I recorded to the hard drive via DirectSound output resulted in a better sounding version than the official one released by its composer, especially on a few of the boss tracks. SNESAmp @ 192 KHz does wonders for Chrono Trigger too, most notably the Tyran Castle track.

I guess I keep investigating this one. Might as well fire off something to nVidia too. It's entirely possible that their latest firmware update for Pascal GPUs to fix issues with DisplayPort 1.4 devices has done something to increase jitter to the point that a borderline signal is created on occasion. Firmware updates often have a tendancy to break something that wasn't broken when fixing something that was (see: Intel Puma 6).

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post #4269 of 4473 Old 01-10-2019, 02:38 PM
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Hi Guys,

My Yamaha CX a5100 is back from repair! A few posts back I was talking about problems with the HDMI. But the problem has been solved!
Somehow water damage has occurred. I suspect my mother watering the plants. (the back of my TV cabinet is open)
In any case, the water damage caused the print to oxidize... The Yamaha dealer had clean the print, and there are no problems left! So I was lucky...
In the meantime I have moved the plants.

Thanks for the comments on this forum.

kind regards
Jeff
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post #4270 of 4473 Old 01-10-2019, 11:37 PM
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I have plants banned from the media room for this exact reason.

I'm always amazed when I see pics or visit houses with plants, candles, knickknacks etc. all around the TV, I wouldn't be able to watch.
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post #4271 of 4473 Old 01-15-2019, 12:50 PM
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does anyone know about the Audio 4 input XLR. When listening to music connected to these ports, is it 2 channel only no sub or would you get 2 channel plus the sub?


thanks
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post #4272 of 4473 Old 01-15-2019, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sullysnet View Post
does anyone know about the Audio 4 input XLR. When listening to music connected to these ports, is it 2 channel only no sub or would you get 2 channel plus the sub?


thanks
Yes, you will get use of the sub just like with any other two channel input, unless you are in Pure Direct mode.

1) JVC DLA-NX7 & Sony 65Z9D, Yamaha CX-A5200, Outlaw Audio 7900 & 7700, UDP-203, DP-UB9000, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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post #4273 of 4473 Old 01-15-2019, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwillcox View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sullysnet View Post
does anyone know about the Audio 4 input XLR. When listening to music connected to these ports, is it 2 channel only no sub or would you get 2 channel plus the sub?


thanks
Yes, you will get use of the sub just like with any other two channel input, unless you are in Pure Direct mode.

thanks so straight and stereo only? Why did they do that on pure direct? thanks
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post #4274 of 4473 Old 01-15-2019, 02:25 PM
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thanks so straight and stereo only? Why did they do that on pure direct? thanks
I don't, as a rule, use Pure Direct. I was just pointing out that it will avoid use of the subwoofers. Actually, I usually use Dolby Surround (DSU) for most source formats.

1) JVC DLA-NX7 & Sony 65Z9D, Yamaha CX-A5200, Outlaw Audio 7900 & 7700, UDP-203, DP-UB9000, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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post #4275 of 4473 Old 01-15-2019, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sullysnet View Post
thanks so straight and stereo only? Why did they do that on pure direct? thanks
I don't, as a rule, use Pure Direct. I was just pointing out that it will avoid use of the subwoofers. Actually, I usually use Dolby Surround (DSU) for most source formats.
thanks... I hardly use the pure direct. I think I used it one time and noticed the sub didn't kick on and never used it again. Looking to connect something to those ports but I don't want to be limited.
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post #4276 of 4473 Old 01-16-2019, 10:29 AM
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Thinking about getting the CX-A5100 and MX-A5000 combo. Are there any problems with stacking the CX on top of the MX? I assume the CX doesn't generate much heat compared to the MX.
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post #4277 of 4473 Old 01-16-2019, 11:35 AM
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thanks... I hardly use the pure direct. I think I used it one time and noticed the sub didn't kick on and never used it again. Looking to connect something to those ports but I don't want to be limited.
for me it's not clear what you really want or what the purpose is?

it's a stereo/2-ch input and without up-mixer or bass management you will get stereo/2-ch out.

why do you want to connect something to the XLR input?
the CX-A operates non-balanced internally like most of the sources as well.
what you have in the end is:
- originally unbalanced signal
- this is converted in the source device to a balanced signal just to have XLR outputs because some people believe they are better...
- the CX-A gets the balanced signal and the very first thing is to reconvert it into an unbalanced signal again

so you two additional conversions which don't really hurt but they don't improve the signal/sound quality either, for sure!

and the most stupid thing is to connect an external DAC to this XLR (or any other analog) input.
in all modes except PureDirect this signal is digitized by an ADC, processed and analogized by the DAC of the CX-A again and any advantage of the external DAC is lost (if there was any, what I doubt).
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post #4278 of 4473 Old 01-16-2019, 11:43 AM
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Thinking about getting the CX-A5100 and MX-A5000 combo. Are there any problems with stacking the CX on top of the MX? I assume the CX doesn't generate much heat compared to the MX.
that depends on the use case...
usually the MX-A stays quite "cold" but if you really use the power it will get warm and even the fans start spinning blowing the hot air from below into the CX-A.

this was one of the two reasons to stack my combo the other way, MX on top of the CX.
the other reason is the not fully dimmable display of the CX-A which disturbs the view to screen right above the "tower". Ok, this fancy ring light of the MX-A has just one dimm level but if it is dimmed (until the next power loss) it doesn't attract that much attention than the CX-A display.
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post #4279 of 4473 Old 01-16-2019, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sullysnet View Post
thanks... I hardly use the pure direct. I think I used it one time and noticed the sub didn't kick on and never used it again. Looking to connect something to those ports but I don't want to be limited.
for me it's not clear what you really want or what the purpose is?

it's a stereo/2-ch input and without up-mixer or bass management you will get stereo/2-ch out.

why do you want to connect something to the XLR input?
the CX-A operates non-balanced internally like most of the sources as well.
what you have in the end is:
- originally unbalanced signal
- this is converted in the source device to a balanced signal just to have XLR outputs because some people believe they are better...
- the CX-A gets the balanced signal and the very first thing is to reconvert it into an unbalanced signal again

so you two additional conversions which don't really hurt but they don't improve the signal/sound quality either, for sure!

and the most stupid thing is to connect an external DAC to this XLR (or any other analog) input.
in all modes except PureDirect this signal is digitized by an ADC, processed and analogized by the DAC of the CX-A again and any advantage of the external DAC is lost (if there was any, what I doubt).
I was planning on buying a network streaming device that you can connect your hard drive to and stream flac files. It has xlr outputs and I had planned to send that to the xlr ins on the Yamaha. Then I'd use straight mode or stereo to listen to my music. When listening, I'd like to have the sub playing. The network streamer has a built in dac. It's the cxn from Cambridge audio.
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post #4280 of 4473 Old 01-16-2019, 01:41 PM
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I use the XLR inputs on my 3080 and 5200 to connect to my Sony HAP-Z1ES Audio HDD players that I have in those systems. I used the XLR connections because:

1) They were available and I had the cables.
2) I like the idea that balanced cables are more resistant to external interference.

Oh, and they seem to work just fine!

1) JVC DLA-NX7 & Sony 65Z9D, Yamaha CX-A5200, Outlaw Audio 7900 & 7700, UDP-203, DP-UB9000, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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post #4281 of 4473 Old 01-16-2019, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
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that depends on the use case...
usually the MX-A stays quite "cold" but if you really use the power it will get warm and even the fans start spinning blowing the hot air from below into the CX-A.

this was one of the two reasons to stack my combo the other way, MX on top of the CX.
Actually I meant to put the amp on top. I see the amp on the bottom of all the Yamaha photos which makes me cringe.
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post #4282 of 4473 Old 01-16-2019, 10:58 PM
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@sullysnet If your streamer has a digital output, you'd be much better just using that to connect to the Yamaha.

@bwillcox if you have a digital optical connection, there will be effectively zero chance of cable interference.
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post #4283 of 4473 Old 01-17-2019, 12:34 AM
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yep and if you connect the source with a digital connection you can use "anything" as streamer like a RaspberryPi without any quality loss!
if you are paranoid about quality you can "play around" with the jitter correction and see if there is jitter on the line. I have set all my inputs to level 3 (highest quality, lowest jitter tolerance) and no dropouts at all. Just once with a poor 50ft toslink cable I had to switch down to level 2.
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post #4284 of 4473 Old 01-17-2019, 05:34 AM
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@sullysnet If your streamer has a digital output, you'd be much better just using that to connect to the Yamaha.

@bwillcox if you have a digital optical connection, there will be effectively zero chance of cable interference.
Well, if my HAP-Z1ESes had any sort of digital output I would have used it. They don't. They are analog out only...RCA or XLR.
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1) JVC DLA-NX7 & Sony 65Z9D, Yamaha CX-A5200, Outlaw Audio 7900 & 7700, UDP-203, DP-UB9000, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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post #4285 of 4473 Old 01-17-2019, 06:11 AM
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@sullysnet If your streamer has a digital output, you'd be much better just using that to connect to the Yamaha.

@bwillcox if you have a digital optical connection, there will be effectively zero chance of cable interference. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
thanks it does and I can use it.
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post #4286 of 4473 Old 01-17-2019, 06:14 AM
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yep and if you connect the source with a digital connection you can use "anything" as streamer like a RaspberryPi without any quality loss!
if you are paranoid about quality you can "play around" with the jitter correction and see if there is jitter on the line. I have set all my inputs to level 3 (highest quality, lowest jitter tolerance) and no dropouts at all. Just once with a poor 50ft toslink cable I had to switch down to level 2.
I have a nvidia shield that I currently stream music from. Sounds good. I was wondering if the cxn would be an improvement in sound. A lot of money to gamble with that. thanks
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post #4287 of 4473 Old 01-23-2019, 10:11 PM
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If there's one feature I really wish Yamaha had brought back, especially for their flagship units, it's the ability to watch a video source and listen to a different source for audio. That way I could maximize my computer's resources for gaming and still listen to my other game music via my phone's USB connection while playing the game on my computer.

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post #4288 of 4473 Old 01-24-2019, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Squishy Tia View Post
If there's one feature I really wish Yamaha had brought back, especially for their flagship units, it's the ability to watch a video source and listen to a different source for audio. That way I could maximize my computer's resources for gaming and still listen to my other game music via my phone's USB connection while playing the game on my computer.

I was able to use Scenes to watch Directv source and stream my Sonos Connect to a optical audio input. I can watch TV and listen to any music sources available through the Sonos app.
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post #4289 of 4473 Old 01-26-2019, 05:04 AM
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I was able to use Scenes to watch Directv source and stream my Sonos Connect to a optical audio input. I can watch TV and listen to any music sources available through the Sonos app.
That unfortunately doesn't solve anything on my end. Not only does it require a third party device, and an expensive one at that, it still isn't the ability to watch one video source and listen to audio from another source using just the A5100. Even if it meant that I had to access a "split source" function first so as to select video and then audio sources, I'd gladly take it. Being able to play games and listen to any music I want instead of just that game's sounds would be awesome.

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post #4290 of 4473 Old 01-26-2019, 09:23 AM
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If there's one feature I really wish Yamaha had brought back, especially for their flagship units, [b]it's the ability to watch a video source and listen to a different source for audio. [/b.
As far as I know, that feature has historically worked only one way: First select a video source, then select an audio-only source (such as CD, MD etc.). The picture from the previous video source remains on the screen. If you can find a way to get your phone’s audio into the Audio 1, 2, or 3 inputs, it will probably work. It’s easy enough to test – just go from a video input to one of the Audio inputs and see if the picture is still there. USB to audio adapters are pretty cheap.

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