The "Official" Yamaha CX-A5100 AVP Owners thread - Page 23 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #661 of 4415 Old 10-20-2015, 12:01 AM
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I'll be getting the CX-A5100 by mail tomorrow and I know I'll be happy with it. I'm sure I would have been happy with the 8802a also but at virtually double price it was a no brainer for my wallet. What's best of Audessey or YPAO I can't say since I have only owned Yamaha but I guess they both have positive and negative aspects. I'm upgrading from a RX-A3040 and expect only minor improvements but some say the upgrade in sound is significant. My amps and speakers are really cheap so maybe there will be no improvements at all. I upgrade because I want the newer tech and since I have enough power I don't need an AVR. I hear some say the 5100 is just a 3050 without power amps. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. I like to think that Yamaha is serious enough to include performance upgrades to the 5100 over the 3050 given the identical price.
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post #662 of 4415 Old 10-20-2015, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
It's the new Marantz AV8802A that you guys should compare with the new Yamaha CX-A5100 pre/pro.
...The Marantz 8801 (older model) you can compare with the Yamaha 5000 (older model).

Also, because the Yamaha costs $2,500 (now) and the Marantz AV7702MKII costs $2,200 USA dollars...those two pre/pros are much closer for a fair comparison...IMO.
Yes, I agree, but we are merely some individuals arranging this test. I happen to own a 5100 and the home theater owner has 8801. It's a simple as that unfortunately. Other that that I'd be happy to test both 8802 and 7701 if I had access to them.
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post #663 of 4415 Old 10-20-2015, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
There is no 7702a.

The 8802 was released without the HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 hardware. The 8802a has it installed (you can upgrade the 8802 for free in the us if you pay for shipping to Marantz.) it is upgradable to DTS:X.

The 7702 is not upgradable to DTS:X.

The brand new 7702MkII is 2.0/2.2 out of the box and be upgradable to DTS:X.

I've also heard there have been some under the hood analog stage upgrades over the 7702.
thanks, helpful.... btw my 5100 arrived and it was open box (the top box flaps were folded alternately instead of bottom flaps first, top flaps on top, the tape was obviously reapplied over the original, and the contents appeared to have been taken out and reinserted into their wrappings), i paid for a new unit, very disappointing, purchased it from crutchfield, they offered a $250 rebate if i was willing to keep it but i wasn't interested, and apparently they can't replace it given it was the last one they had in stock.... might go ahead and just order directly from yamaha, after purchasing from crutch i noticed yamaha was selling the units from their website at the same price as crutch, or i may rethink my needs....
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post #664 of 4415 Old 10-20-2015, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
How is the noise floor on the Yamaha 5100 compared to the marantz 7702, and 8802? I have to go up to the stage to even hear our horn hiss (about 2' from the screen) with the 5100.
I didn't subjectively compare the noise floors. I use an ATI Signature which is dead-quiet and speakers that are moderately efficient. I didn't hear any hiss at the listening position. Others on the 7702 thread have noticed hiss but more often than not, with efficient horn speakers. I found the 5100 to be quiet. No complaints in that category.
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post #665 of 4415 Old 10-20-2015, 02:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
I didn't subjectively compare the noise floors. I use an ATI Signature which is dead-quiet and speakers that are moderately efficient. I didn't hear any hiss at the listening position. Others on the 7702 thread have noticed hiss but more often than not, with efficient horn speakers. I found the 5100 to be quiet. No complaints in that category.
With my Lexicon MC-8 off, and ATI amps on it's silent
But when I switch the MC-8 on, I get hiss.

Does that mean the MC-8 is source of hiss? I could try connecting up my 2 channel pre-amp and see level of hiss
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post #666 of 4415 Old 10-20-2015, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Gurba View Post
I'll be getting the CX-A5100 by mail tomorrow and I know I'll be happy with it. I'm sure I would have been happy with the 8802a also but at virtually double price it was a no brainer for my wallet. What's best of Audessey or YPAO I can't say since I have only owned Yamaha but I guess they both have positive and negative aspects. I'm upgrading from a RX-A3040 and expect only minor improvements but some say the upgrade in sound is significant. My amps and speakers are really cheap so maybe there will be no improvements at all. I upgrade because I want the newer tech and since I have enough power I don't need an AVR. I hear some say the 5100 is just a 3050 without power amps. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. I like to think that Yamaha is serious enough to include performance upgrades to the 5100 over the 3050 given the identical price.
Hi Gurba,
I would love to hear your thoughts on the 5100 vs 3040. I'm in a similar position, I have a RX-A2040 with Rotel power amps and am thinking of upgrading to the 5100 if there was a noticeable improvement in sound quality.

Regards,
Stephen
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post #667 of 4415 Old 10-20-2015, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by whmacs View Post
Hi Gurba,
I would love to hear your thoughts on the 5100 vs 3040. I'm in a similar position, I have a RX-A2040 with Rotel power amps and am thinking of upgrading to the 5100 if there was a noticeable improvement in sound quality.

Regards,
Stephen
Will do my best.
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post #668 of 4415 Old 10-20-2015, 01:38 PM
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There has been post-CEDIA speculation that Dolby may release a home version of 13 ch (9.x.4 or 7.x.6) in 2016. The 5100 has a 13th set of physical outputs on the back panel. Can anyone speculate whether the 5100 has sufficient on-board processing power to render 13 ch with only a firmware update? Or, is this what the 2017 models will have to make us buy another black box?

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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
There has been post-CEDIA speculation that Dolby may release a home version of 13 ch (9.x.4 or 7.x.6) in 2016. The 5100 has a 13th set of physical outputs on the back panel. Can anyone speculate whether the 5100 has sufficient on-board processing power to render 13 ch with only a firmware update? Or, is this what the 2017 models will have to make us buy another black box?
The CX-A5100 is 13 channels - 11 main/surround outputs and 2 subwoofer outputs. It supports Atmos 7.2.4. So it already supports 13 channels.
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post #670 of 4415 Old 10-20-2015, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
There has been post-CEDIA speculation that Dolby may release a home version of 13 ch (9.x.4 or 7.x.6) in 2016. The 5100 has a 13th set of physical outputs on the back panel. Can anyone speculate whether the 5100 has sufficient on-board processing power to render 13 ch with only a firmware update?
No
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post #671 of 4415 Old 10-20-2015, 03:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sveinse View Post
Yes, I agree, but we are merely some individuals arranging this test. I happen to own a 5100 and the home theater owner has 8801. It's a simple as that unfortunately. Other that that I'd be happy to test both 8802 and 7701 if I had access to them.
I understand...and thx for that.
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post #672 of 4415 Old 10-20-2015, 06:50 PM
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thanks, helpful.... btw my 5100 arrived and it was open box (the top box flaps were folded alternately instead of bottom flaps first, top flaps on top, the tape was obviously reapplied over the original, and the contents appeared to have been taken out and reinserted into their wrappings), i paid for a new unit, very disappointing, purchased it from crutchfield, they offered a $250 rebate if i was willing to keep it but i wasn't interested, and apparently they can't replace it given it was the last one they had in stock.... might go ahead and just order directly from yamaha, after purchasing from crutch i noticed yamaha was selling the units from their website at the same price as crutch, or i may rethink my needs....
That's really surprising coming from Crutchfield, would not expect that from them as I've purchased from them a few times. I would not have kept it either. You order a new unit, you paid for a new unit, you should get a new unit.

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post #673 of 4415 Old 10-20-2015, 07:05 PM
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ended up ordering a replacement from avs at a good price thanks to a couple of pms giving me a heads up, oddly it never occurred to me to purchase my av equipment from avs, always thought avs sellers were independent dealers and found it easier to just order online from the usual sources than find out about each dealer... anyway, looking forward to receiving the unit! re crutch, i've purchased from them in the past as well with no problems whatsoever, just one of those things i guess, they were great about issuing a return label and their customer service department was very helpful and easy to get a hold of as usual, this experience certainly wouldn't sour me to purchasing from them in the future...
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post #674 of 4415 Old 10-21-2015, 02:28 AM
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Got my CX-A5100 today.
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post #675 of 4415 Old 10-21-2015, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Gurba View Post
I'll be getting the CX-A5100 by mail tomorrow and I know I'll be happy with it. I'm sure I would have been happy with the 8802a also but at virtually double price it was a no brainer for my wallet. What's best of Audessey or YPAO I can't say since I have only owned Yamaha but I guess they both have positive and negative aspects. I'm upgrading from a RX-A3040 and expect only minor improvements but some say the upgrade in sound is significant. My amps and speakers are really cheap so maybe there will be no improvements at all. I upgrade because I want the newer tech and since I have enough power I don't need an AVR. I hear some say the 5100 is just a 3050 without power amps. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. I like to think that Yamaha is serious enough to include performance upgrades to the 5100 over the 3050 given the identical price.
I woulnd't worry about what you are missing or not missing with your setup. This is Yamaha's flagship and it will sound great. I am a true believer that if people spent 15% of the time and money on treating the room as the do with speaker/hardware upgrades they would get a lot more from their setups. Electronics have come so far these days that room acoustics can make and entry level receiver and speakers sound great. Enjoy your new receiver and don't let these threads deter you. Sometimes "theater nerds" just need to argue The worst thing you can do is spend too much time in these threads. It will only make you doubt your equipment and spend money.
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post #676 of 4415 Old 10-21-2015, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I woulnd't worry about what you are missing or not missing with your setup. This is Yamaha's flagship and it will sound great. I am a true believer that if people spent 15% of the time and money on treating the room as the do with speaker/hardware upgrades they would get a lot more from their setups. Electronics have come so far these days that room acoustics can make and entry level receiver and speakers sound great. Enjoy your new receiver and don't let these threads deter you. Sometimes "theater nerds" just need to argue The worst thing you can do is spend too much time in these threads. It will only make you doubt your equipment and spend money.
So true, excellent post.

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post #677 of 4415 Old 10-21-2015, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I woulnd't worry about what you are missing or not missing with your setup. This is Yamaha's flagship and it will sound great. I am a true believer that if people spent 15% of the time and money on treating the room as the do with speaker/hardware upgrades they would get a lot more from their setups. Electronics have come so far these days that room acoustics can make and entry level receiver and speakers sound great. Enjoy your new receiver and don't let these threads deter you. Sometimes "theater nerds" just need to argue The worst thing you can do is spend too much time in these threads. It will only make you doubt your equipment and spend money.
I couldn't agree more! Don't spend too much time on this forum. There are people who benefit financially from from other peoples constant upgrading. I would also recommend that when you calibrate YPAO only do it in one place and don't use the angle option. I originally did a multiple location calibration and thought everything sounded kind of harsh. I then spoke to Yamaha and they told me to try redoing it but this time with only one microphone placement. So I placed the mic in the middle of the couch about 8 inches from the back head rest at ear height. Wow what a difference that made! I'm actually really liking Ypao's results now. I came from an Onkyo to a Denon 4520 to a Denon 5200 which all used Audyssey XT32. I had become accustomed to to it's signature sound and thought it was great. Now I've changed my mind and realize what other people mean when they say that Audyssey can have a dampened sound, like a wet blanket was put over your speakers. I also decided to do a sub-woofer crawl which resulted in me moving 1 of my 4 subs to a new location. That also made a big difference. The boomy sound that I sometimes experienced has now vanished. I also hear more clarity and separation between my speakers now with YPAO. I think DSU also sounds better. It also seems like human voices have improved. I don't have an inclination now to buy Dirac Live.

My flowery sound vocabulary is lacking so I will just say plain and simple I personally now like the sound of the Yammy over my previous Denon's. But of course YMMV.

Regards
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post #678 of 4415 Old 10-21-2015, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I woulnd't worry about what you are missing or not missing with your setup. This is Yamaha's flagship and it will sound great. I am a true believer that if people spent 15% of the time and money on treating the room as the do with speaker/hardware upgrades they would get a lot more from their setups. Electronics have come so far these days that room acoustics can make and entry level receiver and speakers sound great. Enjoy your new receiver and don't let these threads deter you. Sometimes "theater nerds" just need to argue The worst thing you can do is spend too much time in these threads. It will only make you doubt your equipment and spend money.
I have always been happy with my gear from the first RX-V663, the RX-A3040 and now the CX-A5100. I'm not a soundfreak spending tons on cables and stuff. I can hear the improvement of the 5100 over the 3040 + now I have HDCP 2.2, DTS:X etc.
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post #679 of 4415 Old 10-21-2015, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
The CX-A5100 is 13 channels - 11 main/surround outputs and 2 subwoofer outputs. It supports Atmos 7.2.4. So it already supports 13 channels.
I wasn't counting the sub outputs, but rather two more outputs for either Front wide or 6 overhead channels. The A5100 has two XLR inputs "Audio 4" on the back panel for "high quality analog inputs". I was asking if there might be enough spare computational capacity to allow for a future firmware update that would accomodate an expansion of Home Dolby Atmos to an extra 2 channels, for the above, including internally reassigning the Audio 4 from input to "output" for the extra 2 channels. @FilmMixer has said "No", and I certainly believe he is a knowledgable source.

The 'owner's manual" link in the first post does not cover the Zone 1 and 2 pre-outs and I have a question , as I have never used this feature on any receiver. Are the Zone 1 or 2 pre-outs "hot" at all times and send a main L & R signal to an outboard amp when a Dolby Atmos program is playing on the main outputs, or does one select the "zones", which then mute the main channels?

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Last edited by Ted99; 10-21-2015 at 10:19 AM. Reason: added question
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Originally Posted by Modern Times View Post
I couldn't agree more! Don't spend too much time on this forum. There are people who benefit financially from from other peoples constant upgrading. I would also recommend that when you calibrate YPAO only do it in one place and don't use the angle option. I originally did a multiple location calibration and thought everything sounded kind of harsh. I then spoke to Yamaha and they told me to try redoing it but this time with only one microphone placement. So I placed the mic in the middle of the couch about 8 inches from the back head rest at ear height. Wow what a difference that made! I'm actually really liking Ypao's results now. I came from an Onkyo to a Denon 4520 to a Denon 5200 which all used Audyssey XT32. I had become accustomed to to it's signature sound and thought it was great. Now I've changed my mind and realize what other people mean when they say that Audyssey can have a dampened sound, like a wet blanket was put over your speakers. I also decided to do a sub-woofer crawl which resulted in me moving 1 of my 4 subs to a new location. That also made a big difference. The boomy sound that I sometimes experienced has now vanished. I also hear more clarity and separation between my speakers now with YPAO. I think DSU also sounds better. It also seems like human voices have improved. I don't have an inclination now to buy Dirac Live.

My flowery sound vocabulary is lacking so I will just say plain and simple I personally now like the sound of the Yammy over my previous Denon's. But of course YMMV.

Regards
Good post.

I will re-try calibrating in one spot. And yes, sub placement is paramount. The crawl test is a wise idea to minimize problems. If possible, pick a sub location for the Yammy where you don't have big problems below 32 HZ.

Also, your audiophile terminology is darn good. A "wet blanket" is a good analogy to describe some calibrations. But remember, EQ flattens the FR. So if the house sound of your speakers sounded alive via bumps in the FR, then a room EQ that flattens the response will have more impact on your speakers. Now subjectively you may like it more or less. I prefer clarity while others actually prefer the "wet blanket" sound. Hence, every room and speaker combo is different. I've been in hundreds of rooms. Sometimes the EQ adds clarity and sometimes the proverbial "wet blanket" sound rears its ugly head. Also, the PRO kit helps over the 20 cent microphone. Futhermore, nailing the proper position of the speakers (making them symmetrical for instance) minimizes the nasties that occur. REW is therefore a great tool to get it as close as possible before you ever drag out the auto EQ. That can make a 5X more difference than the differences between electronic brews.

I've always said, he with the least amount of passion wins economically. So those who do hang out on AVS and over analysis will cost them $$'s. The goal is to not be bitten by the bug. I'm severely bitten by the way.

But I do appreciate your suggestion on the 1 point EQing position. Thanks for sharing.
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post #681 of 4415 Old 10-21-2015, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
I wasn't counting the sub outputs, but rather two more outputs for either Front wide or 6 overhead channels. The A5100 has two XLR inputs "Audio 4" on the back panel for "high quality analog inputs".
You're using the correct terminology, but are somehow confusing inputs with outputs.
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post #682 of 4415 Old 10-21-2015, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Modern Times View Post
I couldn't agree more! Don't spend too much time on this forum. There are people who benefit financially from from other peoples constant upgrading. I would also recommend that when you calibrate YPAO only do it in one place and don't use the angle option. I originally did a multiple location calibration and thought everything sounded kind of harsh. I then spoke to Yamaha and they told me to try redoing it but this time with only one microphone placement. So I placed the mic in the middle of the couch about 8 inches from the back head rest at ear height. Wow what a difference that made! I'm actually really liking Ypao's results now.

Regards
I spent a lot of time playing around with YPAO and when I discovered one position was a revelation. However using 8 positions in a 3inch radius around the main listening position was a similar upgrade in quality. A beautiful open sound which made me a very happy camper
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post #683 of 4415 Old 10-21-2015, 10:30 PM
 
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I really like what I'm reading here recently...it is inspiring @ exploring/experimenting with the mic position, the number of measurements (1 & above), and with the sub(s) positioning.

Last edited by NorthSky; 10-22-2015 at 12:56 PM. Reason: small typo
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post #684 of 4415 Old 10-22-2015, 12:42 AM
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I have never used more than one mic position since I watch movies by my self. I experimented with multiple mic positions with the SVS AS-EQ1 but chance seem to decide the result no matter if I used one or many positions.
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post #685 of 4415 Old 10-22-2015, 12:57 AM
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I got my CX-A5100 too last week and i am very happy. I am coming from Denon AVR-X7200W ... i decided to use no more Audyssey XT32 beginning of this year and bought a miniDSP DDRC-88A to use Dirac Live on the Denon for the 7 main channels. The top height channels are used by graphic eq (which is not very good BTW).

So i was waiting for the Yamaha CX-A5100 to complete my setup... i tested it with Dirac Live and i tested it without Dirac. No i had to say i found different settings for music, Internet radio and film ... and on the Yamaha scenes i can safe all individually. That's very good. So now i remove the miniDSP Dirac component and i think i will sell it. The only thing which the Yamaha didn't correct are the subwoofers. I bought a small miniDSP 2x4 boxed and use the UMIK-1 to calibrate it with REW. So now i am happy with the subwoofers and use then YPAO to measure.

On film tone nothing is missing from Dirac Live... on Music the CX-A5100 sounds a little bit more warmer then the Denon and had more bass... so i use the Bass to -2 DB and then it sounds fine for me.

I hope there will come no more formats or features that i must have in the next years, so the CX-A5100/MX-A5000 will stay a long time in my setup
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post #686 of 4415 Old 10-22-2015, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Good post.

I will re-try calibrating in one spot. And yes, sub placement is paramount. The crawl test is a wise idea to minimize problems. If possible, pick a sub location for the Yammy where you don't have big problems below 32 HZ.

Also, your audiophile terminology is darn good. A "wet blanket" is a good analogy to describe some calibrations. But remember, EQ flattens the FR. So if the house sound of your speakers sounded alive via bumps in the FR, then a room EQ that flattens the response will have more impact on your speakers. Now subjectively you may like it more or less. I prefer clarity while others actually prefer the "wet blanket" sound. Hence, every room and speaker combo is different. I've been in hundreds of rooms. Sometimes the EQ adds clarity and sometimes the proverbial "wet blanket" sound rears its ugly head. Also, the PRO kit helps over the 20 cent microphone. Futhermore, nailing the proper position of the speakers (making them symmetrical for instance) minimizes the nasties that occur. REW is therefore a great tool to get it as close as possible before you ever drag out the auto EQ. That can make a 5X more difference than the differences between electronic brews.

I've always said, he with the least amount of passion wins economically. So those who do hang out on AVS and over analysis will cost them $$'s. The goal is to not be bitten by the bug. I'm severely bitten by the way.

But I do appreciate your suggestion on the 1 point EQing position. Thanks for sharing.
No problem.... you also raised some good points about speaker positioning etc.

I only disagree with one thing... "The goal is to not be bitten by the bug"..... I think it's more of a virus contracted from forum over exposure. And maybe sometimes the virus is spread intentionally.

Cheers
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post #687 of 4415 Old 10-22-2015, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by john hunter View Post
I spent a lot of time playing around with YPAO and when I discovered one position was a revelation. However using 8 positions in a 3inch radius around the main listening position was a similar upgrade in quality. A beautiful open sound which made me a very happy camper
So you thought using 8 positions in a 3inch radius around the main listening position provided better results than just the one position? I will have to give that a try. I'm glad ypao rips through it's test tones very quickly.

Thanks
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post #688 of 4415 Old 10-22-2015, 05:30 AM
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No problem.... you also raised some good points about speaker positioning etc.

I only disagree with one thing... "The goal is to not be bitten by the bug"..... I think it's more of a virus contracted from forum over exposure. And maybe sometimes the virus is spread intentionally.

Cheers
I don't think so... Allow me to explain.

Being in a position where I am talking to thousands of people over the years, it is easy to profile a customer who buys these products. They are male; 99.9% if I might add and I think I got the decimal place in the right spot! Meaning, several thousand sales and less than 10 total female conversations on the topic. 85% are technical in nature (EE ME, CE, Bio, MD's, chem, software). People who are in this group (I'm an EE) are heavily research oriented. They will research a furnace purchase with intensity or their cars or their phone etc. There isn't a lot of impulsive buys by this mindset of people. And YES, some do contract the virus by over thinking. For instance the last 5 people should have contemplated the 7702mkii (because of the caliber of their room and speakers). I was trying to talk them out of spending the extra $$'s. Really! Three of them just bought the 8802A and flushed the advice. One went from an 8801 to the 7702mkii (ATMOS and HDCP2.2) and took my advice. As you see, testosterone is your virus NOT this forum. I don't have to up sell or convince someone to spend more, many do it all by themselves.

So allow me to guess your profile. You are male, technical, and research oriented. How am I doing? While you have posted 85 times, I bet you have spent hours reading. That is because it isn't in the DNA of most technical minds to just buy something without intense research. Yes, a small fringe are addicted (luckily it is also my job) and might post an obsessive amount. And of course, I post to gain some visibility. The virus is already present before they get here (testosterone).
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Last edited by SteveH; 10-22-2015 at 05:37 AM.
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post #689 of 4415 Old 10-22-2015, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Modern Times View Post
So you thought using 8 positions in a 3inch radius around the main listening position provided better results than just the one position? I will have to give that a try. I'm glad ypao rips through it's test tones very quickly. Thanks
In my initial experiences, I got a better YPAO result with 6 positions around the MLP with a very short distance, like I did with Audissey (101). I also measured angles and heights and it was quite perfect. Only my Front Heights, which are in fact Top Front, the YPAO felt to place them at the front wall but with correct height. So I changed the position afterwards.

But I will redo the measurement again with 1 position in the near future... pattern 2 is still not in use

Home theater room with a 7.2.4 setup,
Yamaha CX-A5200/MX-A5000, JVC X5000, Oppo 203,
nubert nuVero series 14/7/3/5 speakers
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post #690 of 4415 Old 10-22-2015, 12:58 PM
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So for the guys suggesting one mic position, the ypao mic stand has 4 positions. Are you using the four positions but only at the center seat for example, or just one sweep then calculate?
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