So I had a play with the DTS:X speaker call out and observed for myself the phantoming of front presence into FL/FR and RP into back surround.



It (DTS:X) definitely sounded better with the "mapping" placed solely in the appropriate speaker.



Physically I have front presence and rear ceiling. the Ceiling speakers are at about 60 degrees to the rear of MLP. FP are currently sub-optimal as they are sitting on FL-FR (40cm height above ear per YPAO which is about right) so at about 20 degrees until I get some shelves installed. YPAO also nailed the height for RP.



So some things come to mind:



1. Do we have a channel call out for Atmos to see if it does a similar phantoming if the layout is set to presence versus overhead?



2. IMO this issue is a bug, the unit knows what format is being played and the end user should be setting the physical speaker type per the layout and the 5100 should be directing the sound as appropriate for the format, having to select patterns and such is a mess.



3. Per 2, if the angles of the speakers are a factor, given the unit has angle and height measurements, it should only be phantoming based on these results, not based on the physical speaker types (unless this is needed to some extent to "alter the sound due to the speaker type" for optimal positioning, at the moment is seems if it is doing that it's not right as the positioning is much better when not phantoming).



4. Can we confirm if 3 is happening, i.e. if we move the location of a speaker does the phantoming go away even with the same layout or indeed the amount pf phantoming change?



5. It would be nice if we could manually enter the angle and height ourselves as these factors are evidently important to 3D sound in the same way that distance (time alignment) is important for proper effects. Likewise another option would be to have the DTS:X and Atmos layouts separately selectable. This also ties in with my desire to have a decode matrix. In an ideal world you could have, separately to Scenes, but savable with scenes, for each input type a sound decoder and speaker pattern to use.



6. While having a few more patterns available would be nice anyway (my RX-V2500 had more, 4 or 6 I think) I don't think it should be considered the solution to this issue.



What do others think?

I would like more triggers and more sub outs on the Next pro. And proper sub calibration.

I do not agree on changing the speaker layout to hear the call out from the overhead speaker only.

The physical speaker layout doesn't change, just the labels. The DTS:X renderer assumes that Heights are at 45 degrees elevation. The Atmos renderer assumes that Overheads are at roughly 45 degrees elevation. One layout (speakers elevated 45 degrees in front and behind you) will satisfy both formats with the least compromise. However, for proper rendering, those speakers have to be labeled correctly for each format.

Just received my CX-A5100 today Please add me to the list

So if I understand you right, what is being said is that if I set the ovehead speakers as Height Dts sees them as overhead?

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You can add me too (CX-A5100 owner)

No, the DTS decoder doesn't see Heights as Overheads, it simply assumes certain elevation angles for each label.

DTS assumes Heights are at 45 degrees elevation and Overheads are at 60 degrees elevation.

From what i learnt from the Dts guys in Munchen (Germany) if you have the overhead speakers placed as Atmos specs, you leave the decoder in Overhead mode. The Dts decoder will place the sound at 45° making use of the floor speakers to locate the sound where it was intended to.

I think that you are not considering the speaker dispersion angle and pattern that differs quite a lot when placing the speaker in the ceiling or above the bed spekers facing forward into the room.

Hi guys, interested in the A5100. I read the Sound and Vision review, and searched here and saw some were also having slow HDMI switching. That is one thing that drives me crazy with my Anthem D2, the slow switching, and handshake issues. Tonight was particularly bad with handshake issues going from PS3 back to DVR, I finally disconnected the D2 in frustration and plugged my DVR directly into the TV. Just wondering if there had been any change since the last firmware update?

I had experienced very long sync times, around 10-15 secs at the worst. I timed it when testing out my subs on Interstellar. Today I noticed it was almost instant audio on the same scene. Maybe it was the FW or maybe something else changed, but seems pretty fast for me these days though it wasn't always in the past.

The Atmos callout does something similar in reverse with Presence indicated. That's why it seems that Atmos and DTS:X have a different ideal.

It's too bad that the angle measurement is not used for anything but Cinema DSP. That would be the solution for accuracy, but it would cause virtually all of our systems to use multiple speakers to phantom image sounds, and maybe we wouldn't find that ideal. After all, that's what we're setting our patterns to avoid currently.

It's too bad that the angle measurement is not used for anything but Cinema DSP.

So only Yamaha DSP programs take advantage of the YPAO measurements? Doesn't that suggest that they would provide better results than Dolby Surround and DTS Neural:X which, as I understand your comment, don't?

Thanks for helping me understand.

Hi All,
I've been wondering why my CX-A5100 was outputting a 7.1 signal (I have a 7.1 speaker setup) when I feed it a 5.1 signal with the the mode set to 'Straight'. Looks like it is a bug:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post43182314

Regards,
Stephen

Question: Which format is better for you? DTS:X or Yamaha DSP like Adventure and so on?

Question: Which format is better for you? DTS:X or Yamaha DSP like Adventure and so on?

For 5100, I highly recommend using CinemaDSP for not-so-great Atmos and DTS:X mixes. That is, unless you absolutely hate CinemaDSP. !