Musiccast Yamaha Experiences? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 98 Old 09-21-2015, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Musiccast Yamaha Experiences?

I'm looking at whole home audio solutions, and while everyone says Sonos is very smooth and easy to use, I can't stomach buying 6 of these $500 connect amps and another $600 on Sonos connects to add my current receivers I have little need for wireless output I just want the wireless inputs and control.

The new Musiccast looks to be a better solution while not compromising quality. Has anyone been using it want to opine on their experience?

Also, is there a better way to do musiccast whole home audio without buying multiple receivers? I'm ok with that solution, since I can get a music cast receiver for less than a Sonos connect amp, and its far superior.

Am the only one that thinks Sonos is overcharging for a mediocre system? I don't mind paying some money, but the functionality isn't rocketscience and they aren't very friendly to cojoinging other systems.

-Kevin.
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post #2 of 98 Old 09-21-2015, 04:19 PM
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Check out the Denon HEOS system...
Many awesome features...

Just my $0.02...
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post #3 of 98 Old 09-21-2015, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you use Denon HOES? if so what is your setup?
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post #4 of 98 Old 09-22-2015, 12:07 PM
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Each system has its pros & cons...
Here is a link to Home Theater Review that covers this...

http://hometheaterreview.com/which-m...right-for-you/

Just my $0.02...
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post #5 of 98 Old 09-23-2015, 01:38 AM
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I don't know if many people will have any experience with MusicCast yet, as the main components are yet to be released on mass.
It makes a lot of sense though - Sonos should be worried.

The review that was linked to was decidedly brief... on everything. I'd have a play with the app. in a store when it's available. And that's not only true for Yamaha's system, it's true for all the systems on the market.
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post #6 of 98 Old 10-13-2015, 05:25 PM
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Just got the 1600 sound bar and satellite speaker. System sounds pretty good. I like how I can attach it to my Yamaha 3050 AVR with all the speakers and work it all through my iPad or iPhone
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post #7 of 98 Old 10-18-2015, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post
Check out the Denon HEOS system...
Many awesome features...

Just my $0.02...
But the HeOS speakers and the other systems are not directly compatible with receivers if my understanding is correct. With MusicCast, you can cast through receivers *AND* room extender speakers.. That's a big difference! For the Sonos and Denon you can work with receivers after paying $400 for a bridge. No thanks. MusicCast also supports high bitrate audio.

I agree, Sonos was/is a good start, but we're here for quality components.

Actually I'm hoping Santa will bring me the Yamaha RX-A750..

Last edited by dkkruse; 10-18-2015 at 12:58 AM.
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post #8 of 98 Old 10-18-2015, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkkruse View Post
But the HeOS speakers are not compatible with the Denon Receivers if my understanding is correct. With MusicCast, you can cast through receivers *AND* room extender speakers.. That's a big difference!

I agree, Sonos is a good start, but we're here for quality components.
Actually I'm hoping Santa will bring me the Yamaha RX-A750..
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post #9 of 98 Old 10-18-2015, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkkruse View Post
But the HeOS speakers are not compatible with the Denon Receivers if my understanding is correct. With MusicCast, you can cast through receivers *AND* room extender speakers.. That's a big difference!

I agree, Sonos is a good start, but we're here for quality components.
Denon will expand their system to include receivers, but Yamaha really do have a jump on the market, especially with their ability to stream EVERY source you connect. So even if Denon bring out Heos, they'll really need to do it perfectly.

All in all, Yamaha's entry will force everyone else to up their game somewhat.

Maybe Yamaha needs to bring Tidal to the App. (if Tidal is still around in a years time), the ability to create playlists over DLNA and full Spotify integration... but it pays to remember that its only had two software updates on its App. Sure, it's new, but it's already excellent, most likely it will only go from strength to strength.

As a side-note, it's hard to beat their 2-channel RN602 amplifier now, optical / coax / RCA / phono / wifi / bluetooth (receiver+transmitter) / Airplay / USB high-res / DLNA / a+b speaker selection (from inside the app) etc.
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post #10 of 98 Old 10-18-2015, 01:03 AM
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Idk, onkyo 8160 got rn 602 beat minus music cast
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post #11 of 98 Old 01-02-2016, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by nohcho View Post
Idk, onkyo 8160 got rn 602 beat minus music cast

To be fair, there's almost no difference in spec...
Except the Onkyo has the capability to handle 'Zone 2' via powered speakers etc. Having said that, the Yamaha can do 10 independent zones through MusicCast.

It took me waaaay too long to figure what Idk meant, BTW ;-)
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post #12 of 98 Old 01-02-2016, 01:48 PM
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Actually, I gave Google Chromecast Audio a try for a whole lot less money. They do a great job and keep everything in sync. They have the option for an optical audio out, so it actually works better overall, and you don't have to switch out all of your equipment. Win Win!
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post #13 of 98 Old 01-07-2016, 01:15 PM
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Totally unreliable

I have not been able to get Music Cast to work reliably with a brand new CX-A5100 Pre/Pro. Won't connect. Rooms don't link. If they link, the music cuts out, comes back, cuts out, or broadcasts with a ridiculous delay... Nothing works right. At the moment, I can't get it to play at all.

I've updated firmware. Talked to Yamaha.

I'm totally frustrated with it.
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post #14 of 98 Old 01-07-2016, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronreddy View Post
I have not been able to get Music Cast to work reliably with a brand new CX-A5100 Pre/Pro. Won't connect. Rooms don't link. If they link, the music cuts out, comes back, cuts out, or broadcasts with a ridiculous delay... Nothing works right. At the moment, I can't get it to play at all.

I've updated firmware. Talked to Yamaha.

I'm totally frustrated with it.
In my experience, this is because of congestion or poor Wi-Fi signal. Unlike Sonos, MusicCast shares the same Wi-Fi over which all your other devices are connecting.
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post #15 of 98 Old 01-13-2016, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronreddy View Post
I have not been able to get Music Cast to work reliably with a brand new CX-A5100 Pre/Pro. Won't connect. Rooms don't link. If they link, the music cuts out, comes back, cuts out, or broadcasts with a ridiculous delay... Nothing works right. At the moment, I can't get it to play at all.

I've updated firmware. Talked to Yamaha.

I'm totally frustrated with it.
1: What router are you using?
2: Is the CX-A5100 hard wired?
3: Are any of the other devices connected via ethernet?
4: What devices are you connecting?
5: If you're using an Android device, have you downloaded WiFi analyzer and figured out the strength of your WiFi network?
Lots of questions... but my setup worked perfectly from the get-go, so it's a little odd that you're having issues.
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post #16 of 98 Old 01-22-2016, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunnersfella View Post
1: What router are you using?
2: Is the CX-A5100 hard wired?
3: Are any of the other devices connected via ethernet?
4: What devices are you connecting?
5: If you're using an Android device, have you downloaded WiFi analyzer and figured out the strength of your WiFi network?
Lots of questions... but my setup worked perfectly from the get-go, so it's a little odd that you're having issues.
Hi, thanks for the reply! It's largely moot now as I took the 5100 back in frustration. However, to answer your very kind and detailed reply:

1. Motorola SB6141 modem with Airport Time Capsule with 802.11ac.
2. No. It's WiFi connected.
3. A small printer.
4. I have an airbook and a desktop that access the WiFi. And my iPhone. The WiFi signal is strong throughout the house. The 5100 usually would even wake up to an AirPlay request from my laptop.
5. NA

When I talked to Yamaha (several times) they said it might be the 5100 as I'd already tried two different music cast speakers.
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post #17 of 98 Old 10-09-2016, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dkkruse View Post
But the HeOS speakers and the other systems are not directly compatible with receivers if my understanding is correct. With MusicCast, you can cast through receivers *AND* room extender speakers.. That's a big difference! For the Sonos and Denon you can work with receivers after paying $400 for a bridge. No thanks. MusicCast also supports high bitrate audio.

I agree, Sonos was/is a good start, but we're here for quality components.

Actually I'm hoping Santa will bring me the Yamaha RX-A750..
I'm so fed up with the Sonos attitude of 'we know best' that I am selling my entire Sonos kit (PlayBar, Sub, 3 x Play3, and 1 x Play 5) and going to MusicCast. The yamaha product lineup looks excellent - if it is this good after just a few months can you imagine what it will be like in a year or two?

BTW, the straw that broke the ol' camel's back for me was Sonos deciding to never support DTS on the PlayBar...
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post #18 of 98 Old 10-09-2016, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by cameronreddy View Post
I have not been able to get Music Cast to work reliably with a brand new CX-A5100 Pre/Pro. Won't connect. Rooms don't link. If they link, the music cuts out, comes back, cuts out, or broadcasts with a ridiculous delay... Nothing works right. At the moment, I can't get it to play at all.

I've updated firmware. Talked to Yamaha.

I'm totally frustrated with it.
there is a great app called istumbler that lets you see all the wifi networks around you with signal strengths, channel numbers, etc etc. I have found it invaluable for keeping a clean wifi network
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post #19 of 98 Old 10-09-2016, 05:57 AM
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Each system has their pros and cons and it depends on one's needs which will be best for a given situation.

Sonos Pros
Its own network which not only extends the network but doesn't tie up Wifi bandwidth.
Great selection of music services
Works with Apple Music which is a request by many people
Best integration for whole house music
Apps for computers as well as phones and tablets
Has Mood:Mix for commercial applications

Sonos Cons
Play bar doesn't support DTS - Not the end of the world for most. Pretty much only Discs use DTS so get a player than can re-encode to Dolby Digital
Many TVs are not capable of 5.1 from their optical output - You will get stereo so it is not like you don't get sound but the Playbar definitely does better with a Dolby digital signal. If buying a TV and plan on using a Playbar make sure your TV can process Dolby Digital.
Proprietary equipment

MusicCast Pros
Can handle lossless formats above CD quality
Greatest number of devices, receivers (stereo and surround), Zone2 on receivers, sound bars, wirless speakers, amps, pre-amps
Probably the best app - sunnjective
USB inputs can be used on devices that have them and works with an NAS connected to the USB.

MusicCast Cons
More limited services, no Apple Music
If streaming lossless only about 3 different streams before WiFi problems and this is with nothing else on Wifi. This can be less if you have people watching Netflix or doing other things on the network. About 10 different streams for most lossy streaming services. To clarify by different streams I mean different music not the same music in multiple rooms. The same stream in multiple rooms is OK.
Proprietary equipment but with a huge number of options

DTS PlayFi Pros
Can handle lossless formats above CD quality
Can use devices from different manufacturers so not tied to one brand.

DTS PlayFi cons
More limited services, no Apple Music
If streaming lossless only about 3 different streams before WiFi problems and this is with nothing else on Wifi. This can be less if you have people watching Netflix or doing other things on the network. About 10 different streams for most lossy streaming services. To clarify by different streams I mean different music not the same music in multiple rooms. The same stream in multiple rooms is OK.
App not as polished as others

Denon Heos Pros
Can handle lossless formats above CD quality
Installer features for integration with other systems
Multi zone amps
Has Mood:Mix for commercial applications

Denon Cons
More limited services, no Apple Music
If streaming lossless only about 3 different streams before WiFi problems and this is with nothing else on Wifi. This can be less if you have people watching Netflix or doing other things on the network. About 10 different streams for most lossy streaming services. To clarify by different streams I mean different music not the same music in multiple rooms. The same stream in multiple rooms is OK.
Proprietary equipment

Pick your poison. None are perfect or will work in all situations.
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post #20 of 98 Old 10-21-2016, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
Each system has their pros and cons and it depends on one's needs which will be best for a given situation.

Sonos Pros
Its own network which not only extends the network but doesn't tie up Wifi bandwidth.
Great selection of music services
Works with Apple Music which is a request by many people
Best integration for whole house music
Apps for computers as well as phones and tablets
Has Mood:Mix for commercial applications

Sonos Cons
Play bar doesn't support DTS - Not the end of the world for most. Pretty much only Discs use DTS so get a player than can re-encode to Dolby Digital
Many TVs are not capable of 5.1 from their optical output - You will get stereo so it is not like you don't get sound but the Playbar definitely does better with a Dolby digital signal. If buying a TV and plan on using a Playbar make sure your TV can process Dolby Digital.
Proprietary equipment

MusicCast Pros
Can handle lossless formats above CD quality
Greatest number of devices, receivers (stereo and surround), Zone2 on receivers, sound bars, wirless speakers, amps, pre-amps
Probably the best app - sunnjective
USB inputs can be used on devices that have them and works with an NAS connected to the USB.

MusicCast Cons
More limited services, no Apple Music
If streaming lossless only about 3 different streams before WiFi problems and this is with nothing else on Wifi. This can be less if you have people watching Netflix or doing other things on the network. About 10 different streams for most lossy streaming services. To clarify by different streams I mean different music not the same music in multiple rooms. The same stream in multiple rooms is OK.
Proprietary equipment but with a huge number of options

DTS PlayFi Pros
Can handle lossless formats above CD quality
Can use devices from different manufacturers so not tied to one brand.

DTS PlayFi cons
More limited services, no Apple Music
If streaming lossless only about 3 different streams before WiFi problems and this is with nothing else on Wifi. This can be less if you have people watching Netflix or doing other things on the network. About 10 different streams for most lossy streaming services. To clarify by different streams I mean different music not the same music in multiple rooms. The same stream in multiple rooms is OK.
App not as polished as others

Denon Heos Pros
Can handle lossless formats above CD quality
Installer features for integration with other systems
Multi zone amps
Has Mood:Mix for commercial applications

Denon Cons
More limited services, no Apple Music
If streaming lossless only about 3 different streams before WiFi problems and this is with nothing else on Wifi. This can be less if you have people watching Netflix or doing other things on the network. About 10 different streams for most lossy streaming services. To clarify by different streams I mean different music not the same music in multiple rooms. The same stream in multiple rooms is OK.
Proprietary equipment

Pick your poison. None are perfect or will work in all situations.
This is a great survey -- thanks. I just want to disagree (very respectfully) with one comment -- that Musiccast has "Probably the best app" -- which you admit is totally subjective.

The Musiccast app does not have the ability to search for titles. So if your music is on a server -- if, like me, you have thousands of albums on a server -- the only way to play them is to BROWSE to the specific album. That's right: You have to hunt and peck your way to a title, since you can't search.

This is so unbelievably asinine in 2016 that, as an owner of both Sonos and Musiccast systems, I have to say, Musiccast's app does not even qualify for consideration. It's a loser right out of the gate, lacking this most essential and basic bit of usability. You won't notice this flaw unless you store music on a server or PC -- but this is actually one of the best reasons, in theory, to own a Musiccast system, since it can play high resolution files, which are best listened to on a local hard drive, PC or server.

Once you try finding music files on a server, you'll see immediately the monument stupidity of this shortcoming. Try it once and you'll never want to do it again. That's why my Sonos CONNECT is now hooked up to my Musiccast network receiver.

If Yamaha can just fix this -- i.e., just give a damn -- they would in fact have a great app and even the best app.
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post #21 of 98 Old 10-21-2016, 08:33 AM
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I bought A2050 in May-June for our 2nd home... one of the reasons was due to the 9 channels for Atmos 5.1.4 + the MusicCast feature. Then purchased few months later one of the Yammy WX-030 MusicCast speakers for secondary rooms.

Liked the speaker more than I expected, speaker has some weight & bass to it. Receives signal thru our wi-fi modem from my iphone or A2050. Also, has Pandora & Sirius/XM built in, so after sending signal from your smartphone you can turn the phone off & the speaker keeps that station on & plays. Just can't change stations or artists

I primarily use in our covered sunroom and outside patio area. like it so much I will be buying a 2nd one soon for more of a stereo sound

and PS: I do not store any music on my Computer or a Server

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post #22 of 98 Old 10-21-2016, 06:27 PM
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I agree a 'Search' function would be a much needed addition for MusicCast. I have an NAS on my system but I just went through the folder with my test play lists. It is more of a pain to go through the whole library. Thanks for pointing that out.
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post #23 of 98 Old 10-22-2016, 12:13 AM
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The speed of searching the DLNA library does seem to be a lot quicker... Playlist creation was needed, now it's here.
If Yamaha keeps updating and updating in the way they do, many people will be happy.

However.
People will always find an issue and state their opinion, accompanied with the phrase 'deal breaker' or similar to try and make a tiny aspect seem relevant.

If you were to make a list of additions that could be added:
Tidal
Deezer... not that I use it.
Spotify being integrated directly into the app. itself
DLNA search
The ability to copy all 'favourites' from one device to another (time saving during the initial setup process really)
Apple Music... maybe? Not that I use it...
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post #24 of 98 Old 10-23-2016, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenMindAudio View Post
This is a great survey -- thanks. I just want to disagree (very respectfully) with one comment -- that Musiccast has "Probably the best app" -- which you admit is totally subjective.

The Musiccast app does not have the ability to search for titles. So if your music is on a server -- if, like me, you have thousands of albums on a server -- the only way to play them is to BROWSE to the specific album. That's right: You have to hunt and peck your way to a title, since you can't search.

This is so unbelievably asinine in 2016 that, as an owner of both Sonos and Musiccast systems, I have to say, Musiccast's app does not even qualify for consideration. It's a loser right out of the gate, lacking this most essential and basic bit of usability. You won't notice this flaw unless you store music on a server or PC -- but this is actually one of the best reasons, in theory, to own a Musiccast system, since it can play high resolution files, which are best listened to on a local hard drive, PC or server.

Once you try finding music files on a server, you'll see immediately the monument stupidity of this shortcoming. Try it once and you'll never want to do it again. That's why my Sonos CONNECT is now hooked up to my Musiccast network receiver.

If Yamaha can just fix this -- i.e., just give a damn -- they would in fact have a great app and even the best app.
Amen to that. I'm a Squeezebox user myself, and I'm shocked to see the state the MusicCast app is in. It's really, really bad. Even the Squeezebox ecosystem that has been dropped by Logitech about 5 years ago is in a better state. Well, I think it still is the most flexible and powerfull system available today.
I tried MusicCast, but it's just not usable. The server function is so clunky, it is not even workable. Browsing your music library hosted on a dlna server using the MusicCast app is unbelievable slow. There are no shortcuts to letters in the alphabet, an "alphabet bar". I can't believe there's no search function available using MusicCast. And no queue management? What were they thinking!?
I don't think I ever saw an app worse than this one...

Best regards,
Dennis.
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post #25 of 98 Old 10-23-2016, 02:40 PM
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verypsb: DLNA implementation is very much only a tiny component of MusicCast.

The previous post from Ellebob makes the point - nothing is perfect.

The thing with apps, is they can be tweaked / fixed... and by the looks of it Yamaha is constantly working on theirs.


On the other hand, if hardware doesn't allow for the improvements, the consumer will need to reach into their pocket AGAIN to find a solution.
And that's the massive advantage that MusicCast has (and Heos will also be able to eventually leverage).
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post #26 of 98 Old 10-23-2016, 03:21 PM
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verypsb: DLNA implementation is very much only a tiny component of MusicCast.

The previous post from Ellebob makes the point - nothing is perfect.

The thing with apps, is they can be tweaked / fixed... and by the looks of it Yamaha is constantly working on theirs.


On the other hand, if hardware doesn't allow for the improvements, the consumer will need to reach into their pocket AGAIN to find a solution.
And that's the massive advantage that MusicCast has (and Heos will also be able to eventually leverage).
You have to get the whole package right - software and hardware - or the product is DOA.
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Equipment: Goldenear Triton Ones, SuperCenter XXL, Aon 2 surrounds, Invisa 650 ceiling speakers, Oppo BD 103d, Marantz 7702 mk2, Outlaw 2200 M-block (2) & 7125 7-channel, Roku 4, Sonos, and way too many old speakers, including an original pair of Ascend Acoustics CBM-170s, one of the flattest frequency bookshelf speakers SoundStage ever measured.
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post #27 of 98 Old 10-23-2016, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by OpenMindAudio View Post
You have to get the whole package right - software and hardware - or the product is DOA.

Correct - you can argue that Sonos is DOA.
Heos is DOA.
MusicCast is DOA.
PlayFi is DOA.
BlueSound is DOA.

No one has the whole package, no one.
Figuring out what works for you is the key. But in the day and age of firmware upgrades over years and years and years, each and every product will evolve, however if the hardware doesn't have the inputs / outputs and isn't modular (no swapping of boards available) - then the consumer is onto a loser from day one.
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post #28 of 98 Old 10-23-2016, 11:00 PM
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verypsb: DLNA implementation is very much only a tiny component of MusicCast.
You're right about that. But without a good DLNA implementation I'm not even able to use the other (main) features that MusicCast should offer in a satisfying manner. DLNA is not really good, it has many, many issues. I don't think DLNA even supports gapless playback. But Yamaha made the choice to use DLNA, not me... (While most media streaming options that work well are using a proprietary system, for obvious reasons)
As a long time Yamaha supporter, I was impressed with the features that were offered by MusicCast. High resolution audio, multi-room sync, integration, the MusicCast hardware looked very capable. I thought I found my Squeezebox ecosystem replacement!
But trying the MusicCast app was a disillusionment. Without MusicCast applications that give users a really good user experience, using mobile devices and/or web browsers for conventional OSes, MusicCast is, as OpenMindAudio mentioned before, dead on arrival. Without good software the hardware is dead in the water. MusicCast should be advertised as a system that is not capable of playing back from a local library. Try browsing my moderate local library (consisting of total tracks: 56,654, total albums: 4,587, total artists: 13,395) with MusicCast, it's simply not possible. MusicCast looks, feels & responds like a media streaming system from 1995 or older, and even then I ditched media streaming systems that behaved like this.
It is indeed possible for Yamaha to improve the applications, but this is a feature that should have been a priority in the first place. And IMHO, I don't think Yamaha has a good track record supporting and developing the software side of their audio/visual line up, speaking from experience. At the pace Yamaha is improving the local server function, you probably have replaced your receiver about 10 times with a newer model. MusicCast has been around now for almost 2 years? It isn't that Yamaha did not have some good (and bad!) design examples from competitors of working and feature complete media streaming systems.
You can't expect customers to take MusicCast seriously in it's current state. Maybe Yamaha should take the Sonos route and make MusicCast a PLEX client (Plex and Sonos: Better Together) or use a "high end" media streaming server option like ROON and make MusicCast a RoonReady device (Roon: The music player for music lovers). Even better, support both! That way Yamaha wouldn't have to try to invent the wheel once more...
I hope my Squeezeboxes don't fail soon and last for a long time to come!

Best regards,
Dennis.
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Last edited by verypsb; 10-24-2016 at 04:19 AM.
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post #29 of 98 Old 10-24-2016, 03:34 AM
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I agree a 'Search' function would be a much needed addition for MusicCast. I have an NAS on my system but I just went through the folder with my test play lists. It is more of a pain to go through the whole library. Thanks for pointing that out.
Even folder browsing is too slow and cumbersome using the MusicCast app. (And really not what you expect of a media streaming system anno 2016!)

Best regards,
Dennis.
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post #30 of 98 Old 10-24-2016, 04:10 AM
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However.
People will always find an issue and state their opinion, accompanied with the phrase 'deal breaker' or similar to try and make a tiny aspect seem relevant.

If you were to make a list of additions that could be added:
Tidal
Deezer... not that I use it.
Spotify being integrated directly into the app. itself
DLNA search
The ability to copy all 'favourites' from one device to another (time saving during the initial setup process really)
Apple Music... maybe? Not that I use it...
I can see your point of view, there will always be people asking for support for more and newer streaming services. If you're entering the media streaming market, you have to be willing to constantly update, change and add streaming services.
Spotify discourages the direct integration of Spotify in third party apps, so you can't really point the finger to Yamaha for not (fully?) supporting this feature.
However, if you want to emphasize the high resolution audio qualities of your media streaming system, you NEED to support a local server that's user friendly, easy accessible, fast & reliable.
High resolution audio is of no use with compressed media streaming services, most high resolution audio files (better than CD quality) are not available using online streaming services, only using downloaded and locally stored files.
MusicCast is not going to convince or bring around any Sonos, Squeezebox or other serious media streamer user.

Best regards,
Dennis.
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