Dirty ac power - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Sam Schulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Dirty ac power

Edit: none of you know what I'm talking about. I must have worded it poorly. I'm trying to eliminate noise(soft static) from my speakers. It is audible through my tweeters when no volume is played. It is faint and you have to put your ear to the tweeter. It increases with volume.

I'm going to try another avr and make sure it's the outlets and not my amp being damaged. But the noise has been there every setup. I doubt I immediately burn each amp when I first get it.

Last edited by Sam Schulz; 10-04-2015 at 01:00 PM.
Sam Schulz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 09:50 AM
 
fatbottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1420 Post(s)
Liked: 526
If you're getting noise from your speakers it sounds like the DSP in your AVR is faulty. What do you mean background noise? Hum, hiss, or chirps/clicks?
fatbottom is offline  
post #3 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 10:00 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Squirrel!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,714
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 791 Post(s)
Liked: 467
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Belkin-PureA...25.m3641.l6368 Is an inexpensive power conditioner to try out. Works well in my system. Just need a power strip plugged into one of the working outlets to make up for the 4 that don't work. I have one and find it to work well.
Sam Schulz likes this.

Main: Mitsubishi 73736|OTA|fireTV|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR4311CI|MartinLogan Preface|Phantom|MartinLogan Encore TF|2 - DIY 12" Subs|Behringer KM750|2 Bass Shaker|APC H15 Power Conditioner|Harmony Hub|Sennheiser RS 160|SMSL B1 BT Rx|Linksys SE2500
MBR: Vizio VF550M|OTA|fireTV3|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR-X1000|Chane A1rx-c|Dayton SAT-BK|MartinLogan Dynamo 300|Belkin Bridge|Belkin PF30|Harmony 550
Squirrel! is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Sam Schulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
If you're getting noise from your speakers it sounds like the DSP in your AVR is faulty. What do you mean background noise? Hum, hiss, or chirps/clicks?
It's a very smooth low pitched static, so I guess a hum. It comes from the tweeters when when the system is on but no music is playing.
Sam Schulz is offline  
post #5 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 11:46 AM
FMW
AVS Forum Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,480
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1653 Post(s)
Liked: 1707
If you were able to stop a static sound from coming through your tweeters by using a "line filter" my jaw would drop. The problem is likely in whatever is driving the speakers as mentioned above.
FMW is offline  
post #6 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Sam Schulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
If you were able to stop a static sound from coming through your tweeters by using a "line filter" my jaw would drop. The problem is likely in whatever is driving the speakers as mentioned above.
Just to make sure I'm explaining it correctly, you have to put your ear up to the tweeter to hear the static when no music is played. It increases in volume.

My setup is a denon4520ci powering two revel f12s. Could I have damaged the speaker or amp with spirited volume (70-80)?
Sam Schulz is offline  
post #7 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 12:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
zgeneral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,630
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 874 Post(s)
Liked: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Schulz View Post
Do those entry level ~$50 power conditioner/surge protectors with emi/rfi filtering do the job for eliminating background noise from the speakers, or should I buy something more expensive like the Panamax mr4000, which is on sale.

The background noise is pretty bad.
Power conditioners will have about as much impact as if you hired a shaman to perform ceremonies to make your setup sound better.

Well meaning people will suggest power conditioners to you largely because they were duped into buying one and since their system sounds good anyways, they falsely associate that with the power conditioner.

It kills me to say this, but what fatbottom said. See if you can borrow an AVR and try it.
smurraybhm likes this.
zgeneral is offline  
post #8 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 12:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Squirrel!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,714
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 791 Post(s)
Liked: 467
Quote:
Well meaning people will suggest power conditioners to you largely because they were duped into buying one and since their system sounds good anyways, they falsely associate that with the power conditioner.
No, because they work. Show me proof they don't. You can't? I can show proof they DO work. Power isn't the greatest where I live. Lost ALOT of expensive equipment due to faulty power in the past. Since I've gotten power conditioners/surge protectors, not one loss and it has been years. So, want to tell me again how I was "duped" into buying one?

Main: Mitsubishi 73736|OTA|fireTV|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR4311CI|MartinLogan Preface|Phantom|MartinLogan Encore TF|2 - DIY 12" Subs|Behringer KM750|2 Bass Shaker|APC H15 Power Conditioner|Harmony Hub|Sennheiser RS 160|SMSL B1 BT Rx|Linksys SE2500
MBR: Vizio VF550M|OTA|fireTV3|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR-X1000|Chane A1rx-c|Dayton SAT-BK|MartinLogan Dynamo 300|Belkin Bridge|Belkin PF30|Harmony 550
Squirrel! is offline  
post #9 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 12:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
hoyalawya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 865
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Buy a whole house surge protector (about $100) and hire an electrician to install it ($100 to $200 depends on location). Better investment and will protect everything in your house including the appliances.
hoyalawya is offline  
post #10 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Sam Schulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by zgeneral View Post
Power conditioners will have about as much impact as if you hired a shaman to perform ceremonies to make your setup sound better.

Well meaning people will suggest power conditioners to you largely because they were duped into buying one and since their system sounds good anyways, they falsely associate that with the power conditioner.

It kills me to say this, but what fatbottom said. See if you can borrow an AVR and try it.
I'm trying to eliminate noise from my outlets. It's audible when nothing is played. I have a 2003 onkyo I can try to double check if it's really the outlets or I damaged the amp.
Sam Schulz is offline  
post #11 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 12:57 PM
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 16,231
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4588 Post(s)
Liked: 4791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Schulz View Post
Just to make sure I'm explaining it correctly, you have to put your ear up to the tweeter to hear the static when no music is played. It increases in volume.

My setup is a denon4520ci powering two revel f12s. Could I have damaged the speaker or amp with spirited volume (70-80)?
Different speakers but same avr, also get some hiss in tweeters if I stand next to them with my ear to the tweeter with nothing running on a given input but volume turned up full. I'd consider that normal and not caused by listening to your speakers at higher volume level. What volume level did you turn it up to on what input to hear the noise? Can you measure the noise in dB? All inputs pretty much the same? If the tweeters sound fine in use I wouldn't worry about it. If you want a lower noise floor that's another subject....

ps I've apparently never lived in an area with "dirty" power so never have looked into solving a problem I don't have....
lovinthehd is offline  
post #12 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 12:58 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Squirrel!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,714
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 791 Post(s)
Liked: 467
You most certainly did not damage the amp because you played it loud. If it is hiss, it is likely the amps themselves. No amp is 100% quiet, in the 4520 price range. And you said yourself, you have to get right next to the tweeter to even hear it.

While I always recommend a power conditioner, I'm thinking you might be searching for something that doesn't exist.

If it is a hum, could be a bad ground, not bonded to the source equipment. Or an issue with the AVR itself. Try your other AVR and see.

Main: Mitsubishi 73736|OTA|fireTV|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR4311CI|MartinLogan Preface|Phantom|MartinLogan Encore TF|2 - DIY 12" Subs|Behringer KM750|2 Bass Shaker|APC H15 Power Conditioner|Harmony Hub|Sennheiser RS 160|SMSL B1 BT Rx|Linksys SE2500
MBR: Vizio VF550M|OTA|fireTV3|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR-X1000|Chane A1rx-c|Dayton SAT-BK|MartinLogan Dynamo 300|Belkin Bridge|Belkin PF30|Harmony 550
Squirrel! is offline  
post #13 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Sam Schulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel! View Post
You most certainly did not damage the amp because you played it loud. If it is hiss, it is likely the amps themselves. No amp is 100% quiet, in the 4520 price range. And you said yourself, you have to get right next to the tweeter to even hear it.

While I always recommend a power conditioner, I'm thinking you might be searching for something that doesn't exist.

If it is a hum, could be a bad ground, not bonded to the source equipment. Or an issue with the AVR itself. Try your other AVR and see.
It's static not hum. That's why I assumed it was dirty power, or interference related, or something like that. If it's normal for a flagship avr to have a faint static noise when nothing is being played, I could forget about.

I forgot to mention the amp is under a plasma tv but I have moved the amp around the room with no change. I also live next to power lines.

Edit: I'm going to try another avr as suggested before I think about buying anything
Squirrel! likes this.
Sam Schulz is offline  
post #14 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Sam Schulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Different speakers but same avr, also get some hiss in tweeters if I stand next to them with my ear to the tweeter with nothing running on a given input but volume turned up full. I'd consider that normal and not caused by listening to your speakers at higher volume level. What volume level did you turn it up to on what input to hear the noise? Can you measure the noise in dB? All inputs pretty much the same? If the tweeters sound fine in use I wouldn't worry about it. If you want a lower noise floor that's another subject....

ps I've apparently never lived in an area with "dirty" power so never have looked into solving a problem I don't have....
It's audible at 0 and increases when volume is upped. Maybe this is normal, I didn't know that. I'm guessing audiophile amplifiers are the only amps without audible noise when nothing is played.
Sam Schulz is offline  
post #15 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 01:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Squirrel!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,714
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 791 Post(s)
Liked: 467
Audible at 0 is NOT normal.

Main: Mitsubishi 73736|OTA|fireTV|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR4311CI|MartinLogan Preface|Phantom|MartinLogan Encore TF|2 - DIY 12" Subs|Behringer KM750|2 Bass Shaker|APC H15 Power Conditioner|Harmony Hub|Sennheiser RS 160|SMSL B1 BT Rx|Linksys SE2500
MBR: Vizio VF550M|OTA|fireTV3|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR-X1000|Chane A1rx-c|Dayton SAT-BK|MartinLogan Dynamo 300|Belkin Bridge|Belkin PF30|Harmony 550
Squirrel! is offline  
post #16 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 01:29 PM
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 16,231
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4588 Post(s)
Liked: 4791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Schulz View Post
It's audible at 0 and increases when volume is upped. Maybe this is normal, I didn't know that. I'm guessing audiophile amplifiers are the only amps without audible noise when nothing is played.
How much louder is it at full volume vs no volume? How much does it increase from 0 to 99? When I listen at 0 it's at reference level (I use the relative, not absolute, volume scale) and barely audible, if I go beyond reference it gets somewhat louder, particularly the last couple of dB, but still not a worry since I don't use the unit that way (i.e. listening to nothing at full volume). Forum member @blazar has super high sensitivity speakers and has sought out the lowest noise gear to avoid hearing it at his listening position, but some audiophile amps still gave him undesireable noise levels. Believe he settled on a Benchmark unit.
lovinthehd is offline  
post #17 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Sam Schulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
How much louder is it at full volume vs no volume? How much does it increase from 0 to 99? When I listen at 0 it's at reference level (I use the relative, not absolute, volume scale) and barely audible, if I go beyond reference it gets somewhat louder, particularly the last couple of dB, but still not a worry since I don't use the unit that way (i.e. listening to nothing at full volume). Forum member @blazar has super high sensitivity speakers and has sought out the lowest noise gear to avoid hearing it at his listening position, but some audiophile amps still gave him undesireable noise levels. Believe he settled on a Benchmark unit.
It is faint to very loud from 0-99
Sam Schulz is offline  
post #18 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 01:50 PM
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 16,231
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4588 Post(s)
Liked: 4791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Schulz View Post
It is faint to very loud from 0-99
Very loud is hard to judge without a measurement....but if it is excessive in your opinion that's all that really counts. Comparing it to another avr is probably a good first step. Whether it's abnormal or not hard to know since we don't know what you mean by faint or very loud....
lovinthehd is offline  
post #19 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 02:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
blazar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 4,323
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1188 Post(s)
Liked: 876
Yes, I have been dealing with issues like this for quite some time and have finally solved them for the most part.

Here are some troubleshooting tips:

1. Does you amp make noise when connected alone and only to the speakers?
2. Hook balanced or unbalanced cables to your amp, but don't hook them up to a pre-amp. Is the noise still there in these circumstances?
3. Hook your amp to the actual pre-amp. Is the noise present before this and is it present after connection to the pre-amp?
4. Is the noise present at any volume level or only when you turn up the volume. Is this a digital or analog input? Does the noise occur on both digital and analog inputs?
5. Does noise only occur when hooked up to the media source? If it is an integrated device with pre-amp and amp (like an AVR), does the noise occur when there is silence playing from a digital source. Play a track that is total silence (you can get these on the internet in mp3 or wav format) and see if the noise goes away.
6. plug your stuff into a wall socket and be sure all your stuff is plugged into the same socket. See if you get any differences via wall socket versus whatever conditioner or power strip you are using.

Hum, hiss that varies with volume, and hiss that does not vary with volume, and strange electronic sounds emanating from speakers are all different issues that can be from different things.

These steps above may help isolate the issue.

I did go with Benchmark AHB2 amplifier which is just about the best signal to noise amplifier ever created... and it performs exceptionally well in the noise department which is particularly an issue with high sensitivity speakers.

I owned a Marantz 8801 and the output was fairly "musical" in quality, or in other words I had no major complaints about its sound output. It was however noisy and had funny little electronic sounds that could be heard out of the tweeters at close range. It also produced hiss out of even my 90db sensitivity speakers. For my high sensitivity (115db) speakers, I used a -10db XLR pad in line with the XLR output on my Marantz and the amplifier. When you have a lot of speaker channels, that hiss starts to add up and might irritate you if you are a little OCD about these things... which I guess I am!

I currently am running a Trinnov Altitude which is crazy expensive and not something most people are going to bother with. It has EXCELLENT low noise capability and is the quietest pre-amp that I have ever heard in terms of hiss. It is not totally absent but only audible at close range. The noise characteristics of the hiss itself (which is minuscule) is just a gentle pink noise without any other distracting sounds.

The surround channels are being run by NAD M27 amps which are really a better value than the Benchmark AHB2 in terms of price/channel but only slightly lower signal to noise ratio than the AHB2.

The Benchmark beats just about every amp at any price range, at $3000 retail it is just about the best priced "audiophile" amp that you are going to find. If you can find a better signal to noise ratio, I would love to hear about it.

I would mention that outside the "hiss/noise/hum" issues of various amps and pre-amps, I am otherwise in the "all amps sound the same camp". I find that if your amp has great measurements, that correlates with perfectly good sound. This also is the philosophy of Bruno Putzey of Hypex who produces the modules that the NAD M22 and M27 use.

Adjusting the input gain on your amp based on your speaker sensitivity is a significant part of making your speakers play nice with your amp.

Most home theater speakers have less than 100db sensitivity and perhaps a significant majority of those are <95db sensitive. Most amps and pre-amps will work perfectly well with speakers that are <95db sensitive.


What exactly is your signal chain now?
lovinthehd likes this.

Blazar!
blazar is offline  
post #20 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 09:15 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Sam Schulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post
Yes, I have been dealing with issues like this for quite some time and have finally solved them for the most part.

Here are some troubleshooting tips:

1. Does you amp make noise when connected alone and only to the speakers?
2. Hook balanced or unbalanced cables to your amp, but don't hook them up to a pre-amp. Is the noise still there in these circumstances?
3. Hook your amp to the actual pre-amp. Is the noise present before this and is it present after connection to the pre-amp?
4. Is the noise present at any volume level or only when you turn up the volume. Is this a digital or analog input? Does the noise occur on both digital and analog inputs?
5. Does noise only occur when hooked up to the media source? If it is an integrated device with pre-amp and amp (like an AVR), does the noise occur when there is silence playing from a digital source. Play a track that is total silence (you can get these on the internet in mp3 or wav format) and see if the noise goes away.
6. plug your stuff into a wall socket and be sure all your stuff is plugged into the same socket. See if you get any differences via wall socket versus whatever conditioner or power strip you are using.

Hum, hiss that varies with volume, and hiss that does not vary with volume, and strange electronic sounds emanating from speakers are all different issues that can be from different things.

These steps above may help isolate the issue.

I did go with Benchmark AHB2 amplifier which is just about the best signal to noise amplifier ever created... and it performs exceptionally well in the noise department which is particularly an issue with high sensitivity speakers.

I owned a Marantz 8801 and the output was fairly "musical" in quality, or in other words I had no major complaints about its sound output. It was however noisy and had funny little electronic sounds that could be heard out of the tweeters at close range. It also produced hiss out of even my 90db sensitivity speakers. For my high sensitivity (115db) speakers, I used a -10db XLR pad in line with the XLR output on my Marantz and the amplifier. When you have a lot of speaker channels, that hiss starts to add up and might irritate you if you are a little OCD about these things... which I guess I am!

I currently am running a Trinnov Altitude which is crazy expensive and not something most people are going to bother with. It has EXCELLENT low noise capability and is the quietest pre-amp that I have ever heard in terms of hiss. It is not totally absent but only audible at close range. The noise characteristics of the hiss itself (which is minuscule) is just a gentle pink noise without any other distracting sounds.

The surround channels are being run by NAD M27 amps which are really a better value than the Benchmark AHB2 in terms of price/channel but only slightly lower signal to noise ratio than the AHB2.

The Benchmark beats just about every amp at any price range, at $3000 retail it is just about the best priced "audiophile" amp that you are going to find. If you can find a better signal to noise ratio, I would love to hear about it.

I would mention that outside the "hiss/noise/hum" issues of various amps and pre-amps, I am otherwise in the "all amps sound the same camp". I find that if your amp has great measurements, that correlates with perfectly good sound. This also is the philosophy of Bruno Putzey of Hypex who produces the modules that the NAD M22 and M27 use.

Adjusting the input gain on your amp based on your speaker sensitivity is a significant part of making your speakers play nice with your amp.

Most home theater speakers have less than 100db sensitivity and perhaps a significant majority of those are <95db sensitive. Most amps and pre-amps will work perfectly well with speakers that are <95db sensitive.


What exactly is your signal chain now?
My chain is denon4520ci-canare 4S11 cable, terminated(from bluejeanscable), two revel f12 loudspeakers. I'm using the Denon's DAC. The static starts as soon as the amp is turned on, changing sources does not to change anything.

I tried an onkyo tx sr601, same results. Soft static at 0-max volume, with nothing being played. I did all the outlet tricks before posting this thread. I even put the denon in the middle of the room to get it away from my plasma. No change.

Right now I'm leaning towards just buying a Panamax or something at best buy and seeing if it filters out the noise. I can always return it.

This isn't a symptom of a damaged tweeter, is it?

Last edited by Sam Schulz; 10-04-2015 at 09:38 PM.
Sam Schulz is offline  
post #21 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 09:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
PsychoM3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,075
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 469 Post(s)
Liked: 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post
Most home theater speakers have less than 100db sensitivity and perhaps a significant majority of those are <95db sensitive. Most amps and pre-amps will work perfectly well with speakers that are <95db sensitive.
Nothing more frustrating (and expensive) than dealing with the noise floor and highly efficient speakers!
PsychoM3 is offline  
post #22 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 10:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Shadowed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,240
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 937 Post(s)
Liked: 906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Schulz View Post

This isn't a symptom of a damaged tweeter, is it?
All my experiences with damaged tweeters is they make no sound.
Shadowed is offline  
post #23 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 10:24 PM
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 16,231
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4588 Post(s)
Liked: 4791
@Sam S hulz is it possible you freaked out a little after playing the speakers louder than usual? Perhaps in listening closer than usual you started hearing things as a result, even though they were there before? How long have you had this setup?

With a max volume of 80 hard to believe you damaged anything but I suppose could depend somewhat on source/level. This volume level was calibrated via Audyssey or not? What were you listening to? Did you hear something odd when playing it at 80?
lovinthehd is offline  
post #24 of 50 Old 10-04-2015, 10:26 PM
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 16,231
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4588 Post(s)
Liked: 4791
@Sam S hulz is it possible you freaked out a little after playing the speakers louder than usual? Perhaps in listening closer than usual you started hearing things as a result, even though they were there before? How long have you had this setup? How far away from the speaker do you have to be to stop hearing the noise?

With a max volume of 80 hard to believe you damaged anything but I suppose could depend somewhat on source/level. This volume level was calibrated via Audyssey or not? What were you listening to? Did you hear something odd when playing it at 80?
lovinthehd is offline  
post #25 of 50 Old 10-05-2015, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Sam Schulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
@Sam S hulz is it possible you freaked out a little after playing the speakers louder than usual? Perhaps in listening closer than usual you started hearing things as a result, even though they were there before? How long have you had this setup? How far away from the speaker do you have to be to stop hearing the noise?

With a max volume of 80 hard to believe you damaged anything but I suppose could depend somewhat on source/level. This volume level was calibrated via Audyssey or not? What were you listening to? Did you hear something odd when playing it at 80?
I noticed the noise on my last system when turning on the system. This system is new. I blasted black hole sun 80% volume via AirPlay on apple music. I checked the speakers to make sure I didn't damage them and heard the noise in the tweeters. I didn't think it would show up on my new system since it was nicer than the previous. When I turned up the volume all the way with nothing on, the static was audible for the whole room. I didn't try that on my previous system. I just ignored the noise on startup.

Anyway I bought a Panamax mr4300 from best buy today, no affect on the noise. I guess av recievers in general are just noisy and not clear. I assumed it's rated power at 0.05 thd was not audible when I bought it, o well.
Sam Schulz is offline  
post #26 of 50 Old 10-05-2015, 02:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayDunzl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: near Tampa, Florida
Posts: 3,228
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1231 Post(s)
Liked: 1435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Schulz View Post

I assumed it's rated power at 0.05 thd was not audible when I bought it, o well.
THD looks at a fundamental frequency and the intensity of its harmonics.

THD+N (noise) looks at the harmonics and more of the spectrum.

Wiki

"Measurement:
The distortion of a waveform relative to a pure sinewave can be measured either by using a THD analyzer to analyse the output wave into its constituent harmonics and noting the amplitude of each relative to the fundamental; or by cancelling out the fundamental with a notch filter and measuring the remaining signal, which will be total aggregate harmonic distortion plus noise."

I'll be back later...


System links::: 1.5RQ > digits from all sources > 1177a > OpenDRC-DI with AcourateDRC > DEQ2496 > DAC2 > KCT > FPB 350mcx > reQuest + Cheezewoofer Wattless Deluxe > Sweetspot

Last edited by RayDunzl; 10-05-2015 at 02:46 PM.
RayDunzl is offline  
post #27 of 50 Old 10-05-2015, 03:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayDunzl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: near Tampa, Florida
Posts: 3,228
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1231 Post(s)
Liked: 1435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Schulz View Post

Anyway I bought a Panamax mr4300 from best buy today, no affect on the noise.
AC power is a sine wave, which may have some distortion (harmonics) imposed upon it by load, and some spikes where rectification diodes turn on prior to the peak, and to a lesser degree, turn off after the peak, and spikes where dimmers turn on and off - variable location on the wave depending on the dimmer settings. These tend to occur at 60 or 120Hz intervals, though the harmonic distortion of the wave could be other multiples of 60.

To get a hiss out of tweeters from the usual noises on the AC wave after rectification and filtering and regulation in the device would not be something I would expect. Maybe some forms of hum, but not hiss.

AVR's have many digital devices in them now, which may emit noises at various frequencies depending on their clocks and functions, so my guess would be the hiss is internal to the AVR.

I have an old pocket AM 8 Transistor radio. If I put it near the computer, the cable box, the Oppo, the plasma TV, the LCD monitors, it emits all manner of spurious tones whistles hiss and chirps. I don't have a digital AVR to try it on.

The flourescent displays are very noisy, and the plasma TV is amazingly noisy.

My audio is not, though. Having put an oscilloscope on the speaker leads in the past, I saw no difference between powered up and powered off, just the background RF hash in the air (which doesn't have the energy to cause a speaker to make a noise) while no musical signal is present.

I'll be back later...


System links::: 1.5RQ > digits from all sources > 1177a > OpenDRC-DI with AcourateDRC > DEQ2496 > DAC2 > KCT > FPB 350mcx > reQuest + Cheezewoofer Wattless Deluxe > Sweetspot
RayDunzl is offline  
post #28 of 50 Old 10-05-2015, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Sam Schulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDunzl View Post
AC power is a sine wave, which may have some distortion (harmonics) imposed upon it by load, and some spikes where rectification diodes turn on prior to the peak, and to a lesser degree, turn off after the peak, and spikes where dimmers turn on and off - variable location on the wave depending on the dimmer settings. These tend to occur at 60 or 120Hz intervals, though the harmonic distortion of the wave could be other multiples of 60.

To get a hiss out of tweeters from the usual noises on the AC wave after rectification and filtering and regulation in the device would not be something I would expect. Maybe some forms of hum, but not hiss.

AVR's have many digital devices in them now, which may emit noises at various frequencies depending on their clocks and functions, so my guess would be the hiss is internal to the AVR.

I have an old pocket AM 8 Transistor radio. If I put it near the computer, the cable box, the Oppo, the plasma TV, the LCD monitors, it emits all manner of spurious tones whistles hiss and chirps. I don't have a digital AVR to try it on.

The flourescent displays are very noisy, and the plasma TV is amazingly noisy.

My audio is not, though. Having put an oscilloscope on the speaker leads in the past, I saw no difference between powered up and powered off, just the background RF hash in the air (which doesn't have the energy to cause a speaker to make a noise) while no musical signal is present.
Okay so the noise floor is just really bad on av recievers? I guess no power conditioner can fix that.
Sam Schulz is offline  
post #29 of 50 Old 10-05-2015, 04:32 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,632
Mentioned: 221 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3678 Post(s)
Liked: 4169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Schulz View Post
It's audible at 0 and increases when volume is upped. Maybe this is normal, I didn't know that. I'm guessing audiophile amplifiers are the only amps without audible noise when nothing is played.
My Oppo 105 and XSP-1 and Rotel amps creates no hiss AT FULL GAIN and my tweeters are 108db/watt.
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/compres...s/dna-360.html

Pair a good source and pre-pro with a good amp like: Rotel, Sherbourn, Parasound, Classe, McIntosh, Bryston, Emotiva etc etc and you shouldn't have a hiss anymore.

The Emotiva XPA-1 and SA-250 have VERY low noise, or so I've heard...
https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/sa-250

AVR's are a bit noisier than separates and tend to be lower quality. Not always though, and I'd hope not on a flagship model!

If your speaker is more than 95db/watt that will definitely not help on the hiss front!

People with 115db/watt tweeters have had success with this amp:
http://benchmarkmedia.com/products/b...ower-amplifier
BassThatHz is offline  
post #30 of 50 Old 10-05-2015, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Sam Schulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
My Oppo 105 and XSP-1 and Rotel amps creates no hiss AT FULL GAIN and my tweeters are 108db/watt.
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/compres...s/dna-360.html

Pair a good source and pre-pro with a good amp like: Rotel, Sherbourn, Parasound, Classe, McIntosh, Bryston, Emotiva etc etc and you shouldn't have a hiss anymore.

The Emotiva XPA-1 and SA-250 have VERY low noise, or so I've heard...
https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/sa-250

AVR's are a bit noisier than separates and tend to be lower quality. Not always though, and I'd hope not on a flagship model!

If your speaker is more than 95db/watt that will definitely not help on the hiss front!

People with 115db/watt tweeters have had success with this amp:
http://benchmarkmedia.com/products/b...ower-amplifier
I just learned this is called noise floor. I'm disappointed my 4520ci is just as noisy as my previous x4000. My speakers are rated 90.5 db and 6ohm by revel.

Do you know if marantz recievers have a lower noise floor than denon?
Sam Schulz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off