Help with external amps for Atmos AVR Setup (Marantz SR7010 or Denon X6200) - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 43 Old 10-15-2015, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
XLS1000 has a higher noise floor than the other models. The XLS1500 can be had for $200 each. From a cost perspective, there isn't much that can touch it. The only negative is that you have a whole rack of amps.
Is that a negative?



Or, more realistically maybe:

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post #32 of 43 Old 10-15-2015, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
These days I'd probably go with the Crowns. They are pretty ugly but that doesn't concern me as all my gear is out of sight hidden in a closet. Same with any likely fan noise - not an issue for me. I like pro amps for their amazing performance/price ratio and their near indestructibility. And they weigh very little and run cool. What's not to like!
I have 2 Crown XLS 2000 and beyond happy for price and performance.

Speakers Front: Klipsch RF-7 Center: Klipsch RC-64 II Surrounds: (4) R-5800-W II Ceiling: (4) R-5800-C II Sub: SVS PC12 Plus
Screen: Carada 120"Criterion Series 2.35 to 1
Amps: (2) Crown XLS 2000
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post #33 of 43 Old 10-15-2015, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by SSweetImpalaSS View Post
I have 2 Crown XLS 2000 and beyond happy for price and performance.
So would I be too. I have had a Crown XLS amp for a few years now and I have always been very happy with it. Huge bang for the buck. And, after a while, like a mother with a plain child, you kinda get to love the way the look too
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post #34 of 43 Old 10-15-2015, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
So would I be too. I have had a Crown XLS amp for a few years now and I have always been very happy with it. Huge bang for the buck. And, after a while, like a mother with a plain child, you kinda get to love the way the look too
That what my Mom always said to friends and family. I have always wondered why
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post #35 of 43 Old 10-15-2015, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
XLS1000 has a higher noise floor than the other models. The XLS1500 can be had for $200 each. From a cost perspective, there isn't much that can touch it. The only negative is that you have a whole rack of amps.
True, but as you know I'm rack space limited. I don't view the whole rack of amps as a negative though. If I would have ran 3 each of 5ch Emo (4U each I believe) with at least 1U for venting, I would have used 15 U for 15 chs (rack units RU or U are 1.75" tall). Emo did recommend 2U between each though which could have pushed me to 18U. With XLS1500 I'm 2U for 2chs so I ended up with 16U. It really is the equivalent space requirements all things considered. 1U per channel no matter which option I went with. But XLS cut my weight down to only 1/3 and if I need to add just 2 more chs way down the road then I won't have to throw in another massive multi-ch AB with a 5 channel price sweet spot. I guess to support the potential negative of rack space though, I could have popped $1600 for a 7 ch class D wyred4sound amp and saved a lot of space and even more weight---but paid twice as much.

Of course you know this, but really for the new guy's benefit.
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post #36 of 43 Old 10-15-2015, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Ripped out old 28U rack and expanded to 35. Ordered Panamax M5400 PDU that has some delay capabilities but isn't a true sequencer. It does have great protection, filtering and regulation and an amp meter though. So should help out with whole system. Also ordered 7702Mk2 with rack ears as I'm not waiting for 13 or 15 chs. Hoping to have all equipment installed and running by next weekend. That'll be the true test on the XLS1500s and power issues with the new PDU. I'll be switching on all 8 with a trigger. 4 at one time along with prepro trigger and another 4 at a delayed time with a power strip branched off carrying 3 of them. Hoping that splitting the load in half will "sequence" enough to stop in-rush. Sounds like this will help with speaker pop at amp power up too.

Side note, I thought the Crown were pretty damn ugly. But as mentioned, they really are growing on me!! I think once all installed and finished carpentry is done it's going to look awesome!

Wish I could have gotten about 10U more in the cabinet. Would have been nice to have 4U for additional amp expansion, 2U for vented blanks for prepro and whole house audio AVR(probably not needed as no video or internal amp usage), 2U for some sort of room correction if I ever go that way, and 2U for a media server. I'll have to cross those roads when I get there and either ditch the drawer or move the whole-house AVR into the closet.

Guess my path is pretty set at this point as the final pieces are in route. Thanks for everyone's help and I'll keep pics up when completed.
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Marantz NR1607, Crown XLS1500 (2 in bridge mode for mains)
JTR 210RT, JTR Cap S2
Samsung 78” Curved LED 4K (KU7500)
Oppo UDP-203 UHD HDR BD player, AppleTV Gen4, Synology DS216play
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post #37 of 43 Old 10-16-2015, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like 7702mk2 prepro won't show until maybe late next week, probably early the following. So couldn't resist of course.

Went ahead and put Yam A2040 back in rack. Ran preouts for 7.0 of the XLS1500 w/gains maxed out. Have to use Yamaha internal for TF and TR. Only hooked up smaller 12" rear sub at low volume and left big 15" front unconnected. Keep in mind this is all with the new MA Bronze LCR as well. No breaker issues with everything powered-on and in use (minus whole house audio and amps were at no-load)

Started with some soft music (Once soundtrack) in 2.0 with new amps. Noticeably more SPL. Of course that's going from 1-6.5" driver per front to 3 per front. I could've probably driven the speakers to driver failure easily ([email protected] rated). Seeing as they're not burned in, I didn't try to get crazy. It was a very comfortable loud volume. I'm a rocker so I can take loud, but this was enough volume that you would not have been able to carry on a convo or listen to it at that level for very long. Next 30 seconds to mars---deafening.

Switched over to 5.1.4 and 7.1.2 test (.2 and .4 always internal yamaha). Same music choices. A little too loud at -5 db in surround. 9 ch stereo very uncomfortable volume at -5db. Saw the -10 LEDs blink on the XLRs occasionally but never clipped.

Moved over to BD Atmos Gravity in 5.1.4. Re-entry scene is one of my absolute favorite. This was the real test a -5db. My front woofers weren't fluttering around and over extending like on the cheap DT (which were set at 80 or 100hz!!). I like my movies loud and this was just a little too much for me. Ears still ringing as I type. Funny thing is the heights were so much more clear. I suppose this is because the Yamaha was only driving 4 chs instead of 9? Without my main front sub being connected the whole thing was a little over the top on the highs. But I also didn't run YPAO for EQ and levels so the system is out of balance.

Only negative I would have is the Bronze 6 front pair were a little bright and stiff. I know they'll get better after 100 hours or so and once system is retuned. In all fairness to them, I do have them bunged, xover at 60 hz and set with the small speaker EQ. Pretty amazing what sort of bass extension those new speakers have with the 6-6.5" drivers given that. The mids with the 2.5 way design were very tight and accurate. I had ran them with the Yamaha internal with music for just a few minutes yesterday before breaking down the rack. I didn't listen long enough but they seemed a lot brighter today with the XLS amps. Regardless, for $1100 ($825 to me) this is a decent pair of speakers. Head and shoulders above those $440/pair of DT studio monitors.

All in all, I know that's a lot of changes: throwing in 7 chs of new amps and new LCR all at once. But I could feel the system had more dynamics and mids and much clearer mud-free height chs. Never clipped, never tripped and an appreciable SPL difference. Really not trying to justify my $2700 spend and trying to stay completely objective here. I know I could have done much better on the LCR but with a smaller budget of $2k and spending $1050 on sale for the Bronze LCR, they were a steal.

Next stop wrapping up the prepro install, new rears and new rear sub.

Marantz NR1607, Crown XLS1500 (2 in bridge mode for mains)
JTR 210RT, JTR Cap S2
Samsung 78” Curved LED 4K (KU7500)
Oppo UDP-203 UHD HDR BD player, AppleTV Gen4, Synology DS216play
STOKED Home Theater Build
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post #38 of 43 Old 01-13-2016, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post
Adding an external amp is more than just a chart of THD mate..
If you believe that amps do make a difference in sound (I do), then you will want to improve the music quality that you can get from these AVRs.

Depending on your belief and budget, you can stay with the PA styled Crowns, or the like or add a better power amp to power up the front three.

A good power amp also adds better dynamics, and sound quality.

Alternatively, what I use is a good stereo amp with HT bypass, and when I am in the mood for critical stereo listening, I just use my stereo amp for two channel listening w/o my AVR.

IMO, bi-amping with a mid-tier AVR doesn't add anything.

Cheers
Pete,

I hope I am not hijacking the thread, but since you have the SR7010...

Can you tell me if I can use the internal amps to power 10 channels like this: L+R side surrounds, L+R rear surrounds, L+R front wides, and 4 Atmos heights? I am currently using a QSC DCA1644 to drive my Triad Gold LCRs and Denon 4311 for the 3 surround pairs.

Thank you,

Geordon
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post #39 of 43 Old 01-14-2016, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Geordon View Post
Pete,

I hope I am not hijacking the thread, but since you have the SR7010...

Can you tell me if I can use the internal amps to power 10 channels like this: L+R side surrounds, L+R rear surrounds, L+R front wides, and 4 Atmos heights? I am currently using a QSC DCA1644 to drive my Triad Gold LCRs and Denon 4311 for the 3 surround pairs.

Thank you,

Geordon
Hi mate
The 7010 has only 9 amps internally, and you can't have wides and heights active at the same time..
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post #40 of 43 Old 01-15-2016, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Geordon View Post
Pete,

I hope I am not hijacking the thread, but since you have the SR7010...

Can you tell me if I can use the internal amps to power 10 channels like this: L+R side surrounds, L+R rear surrounds, L+R front wides, and 4 Atmos heights? I am currently using a QSC DCA1644 to drive my Triad Gold LCRs and Denon 4311 for the 3 surround pairs.

Thank you,

Geordon
The SR7010 is no different than your 4311CI in that it is a 9CH AVR that can expand to 11CH by adding a 2CH external amp.
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post #41 of 43 Old 09-16-2017, 02:12 PM
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Help! Just added 4 on ceiling speakers for DolbyAtmos/Auro 3D sound and I am having audio dropouts when listening to movies at reference level. Will adding a multichannel amplifier solve this issue? And what amp and how many channels of amplification necessary to unburden my Marantz SR7010? Thanks.
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post #42 of 43 Old 09-16-2017, 06:25 PM
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Sorry. I have Vandersteen 3, VCC center channel and VSM-1 on wall surrounds. My Atmos/Auro 3D speakers are Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000 mounted on ceiling. I use 2 Hsu subwoofers as well. I was thinking of a 5 channel amp to drive the Vandersteens and let the SR7010 drive the ceiling speakers. No VOG speaker. All recommendations are welcome. Thanks.
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post #43 of 43 Old 09-17-2017, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by frabnkgonsalves View Post
Help! Just added 4 on ceiling speakers for DolbyAtmos/Auro 3D sound and I am having audio dropouts when listening to movies at reference level. Will adding a multichannel amplifier solve this issue? And what amp and how many channels of amplification necessary to unburden my Marantz SR7010? Thanks.
The ProMonitor 1000 speakers are fairly efficient while your Vandersteen are not so your best bet is likely to purchase a more powerful 2CH or 3CH amp (eg. 250W+) to power at least the FL/FR (if not the FL/C/FR) speakers.
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