Marantz 8802a vs 7702 Mk2 - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 109 Old 04-15-2016, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
+1

I had a ground loop hum that I just couldn't figure out. Using a XLR cable rather than the RCA was an easy fix for it.
Hi guys...just to add my couple of cents...absolutely yes, the xlr upgrade (yes, it IS an upgrade) made a huge difference in sound over my RCAs. When I bought my 2 channel amp, I was really disappointed with the sound: nothing impressive, flat, boring. I contemplated returning it. My friend suggested that I try xlr cables...what a huge improvement. Lively sound, MUCH LOWER noise floor, everything I expected! Being a fairly experienced audio guy (that never used xlr cables) I was surprised. A no, I DO NOT have any ground loop issues in my home. So I respectfully disagree with the gentleman that asserts that "very very few" people will benefit from xlr cables. They work extremely well.
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post #92 of 109 Old 04-15-2016, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by zgeneral View Post
The reason you're getting interference was included in my ,etc, in my original remark. I even included a definition for you. Going into each and every highly unlikely case where XLR cables was immaterial to the discussion. The need exists in very few cases.

I didn't ever pass judgement on you. I only pointed out in my original post that you're one of the few people who actually need XLR cables. The cases where they're needed, as many others have pointed out here, are very few.

I'll post a link to an AVR with pre-outs if you promise to leave the forum. Otherwise, the site has a search function and this company called google has this thing called a search engine.

The analogy had to do with people who have very unreliable cars who use that anecdote to try to apply their situation as an accurate representation of the overall market. It's basically the same as what you've done here when talking about XLR cables. That's very easy logic to follow.

As to your comment about the soap box, if you're unable to understand what I'm typing here, then please don't try to paraphrase it. To be accurate to what I said, XLR cables are only of any benefit to an extremely small number of people.
To post a link for the definition of "etc." was really not needed and of no use IMO. More of a diversion than anything else. What was needed was to post a definition of what are the causes of "interference" in an A/V system. A ground loop is not "interference" IMO as it is an issue brought on by ones home electrical system and not due to airborne "interference".

I'm not sure if you've read the most recent posts in this thread. If not you should take the time to do so. Since your last post two more members have posted that the use of XLR connections has helped eliminate or greatly reduce the unwanted noise in their systems. Once again shooting a hole in your misguided theory that XLR connections "are only of any benefit to an extremely small number of people".

Please how immature can one be to post "I'll post a link to an AVR with pre-outs if you promise to leave the forum". Really? If I leave the forum how will I know if you actually posted a link to said AVR with preouts ? I did a quick Google search and did not find one "Audio Video Receiver" with both speaker output terminals and balanced preouts for 5/7.1 channels.

The Edsel analogy still doesn't hold any water in the least. My point that the use of XLR connections to minimize noise in ones system is very valid and far more common than you seem to think.

Soap box most definitely. By that I mean you can't seem to step away from this issue. The use of XLR connections was discussed in this thread 4-5 months ago by several members here including myself. There was a difference of opinion with a few members posting their thoughts either way then the discussion was over. What you are unable to do is let it go as I most certainly would but the inaccuracies you've posted need to be pointed out.

Once again you post that "XLR cables are only of any benefit to an extremely small number of people" which is totally wrong IMO. All you need to do is read through this thread and you will clearly see that the benefit is far greater than "an extremely small number of people".

So how about posting a link to that AVR with 5/7.1 XLR preouts and what you consider "an extremely small number of people"? It would be an easy way to show I'm wrong and to be quite honest it'd be cool to see an AVR with 5/7.1 XLR preouts . Oh by the way whether you post any links to back up your claims or not I'm not going anywhere .

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post #93 of 109 Old 04-15-2016, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I have always been one to say that XLR is a waste in most home environments. However, I just purchased a new amp which has XLR inputs, so I am going to take the plunge with XLR on the 8802a. I will report back if I have to eat my previous words or not.
Just to add...coincidentally, I just received a pair of xlr cables that I ordered from Morrow audio to use for my disc player as analog two channel interconnects. I assumed that because I had such a superb result using xlrs as interconnects for my amp to pre/pro, it would be just as revealing. Not so this time. The difference is negligible, if at all.
So, I'm a tad bit disappointed, but I will use them for my multichannel setup, so no big deal I guess.
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post #94 of 109 Old 06-23-2016, 03:11 AM
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Compare and contrast as OP titled the thread

Ordinarily, I would not try not to waste bandwidth with a complaint like this.
Ordinarily, I prefer Moderators to stay out of discussion threads unless really necessary.

The only discussion in this thread regarding XLR use should be limited to the differences regarding XLR features or performance between the two models!

It is worth noting the inputs present only on the 8802a, as well as the reminder that many people would likely be using HDMI out anyway for their sources.

However, for dual purpose (cinema and music) some sources like an OPPO 105 could supply the 8802a with both HDMI and XLR. One could also use a switch box, and select XLR to your stereo amp direct from OPPO too with the 7702MkIi

In addition mentioned was the sharing of ATMOS2 on the 7702MkII
(It's not clear to me yet if ATMOS1 & ATMOS 2 are the same signals, duplicated for people with 4 ATMOS speakers, and a "Y" adapter on the MKII would essentially duplicate the 8802a set up.... Or if 1 vs 2 are processed differently)

Really the whole discussion on real or perceived benefits of XLR should NOT be in this thread as both units provide virtually same output XLR features, and the issue wasn't if one or the other did a BETTER job with XLRs due to a difference in implementation.

I wish a Mod had lifted those notes and created a separate thread, or thrown them into an appropriate one.

In my case, I think If I wanted the best possible 2 channel music (vs cinema) I would use a separate amp, and separate speakers behind the AT screen, and go direct from my source to that amplifier.

Using the 8802a for 2 chan music on LCR designed for limited output below 80 Hz, well, that is a huge compromise. The only reason to use the 8802a for music would be to take advantage of all the multichannel and bass management aspects....and then, quite frankly, there is so much manipulation going on, may as well use the HDMI input anyway, probably losing the vast majority of any advantage XLR in might have.

I think for the moment, I'd rather put the difference between the two $$ wise somewhere else, and if I really, really, really feel driven to go XLR into my SS eventually upgrade to an 8802a.

What I find interesting, is that at least for some people with their particular systems, they find preferences for the MkII sonically, whearas Marantz clearly has more invested in the 8802a. Food for thought.
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post #95 of 109 Old 10-06-2016, 06:57 PM
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Came to this thread for the differences between the 7702MKII and the 8802A as the title eludes. Instead I read about the virtues of XLR.

Does anyone definitively know if the DAC's are different between the two? The 8802A has "premium grade AK4490 32-bit DACs on all channels". I could not confirm what the 7702mkII has in the DAC dept.

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post #96 of 109 Old 10-06-2016, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry.P View Post
Came to this thread for the differences between the 7702MKII and the 8802A as the title eludes. Instead I read about the virtues of XLR.

Does anyone definitively know if the DAC's are different between the two? The 8802A has "premium grade AK4490 32-bit DACs on all channels". I could not confirm what the 7702mkII has in the DAC dept.
It's the AKM 4458
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post #97 of 109 Old 10-06-2016, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post
It's the AKM 4458
Thanks!

I found these two...

http://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/da...artno=AK4458VN

http://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/da...ink_id=link410

8802A DAC is marginally superior on paper.

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post #98 of 109 Old 10-23-2016, 01:29 PM
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The 7702 MKii is on sale everywhere right now for $1199. I just picked one up off of Amazon prime with free 2 day shipping.


It's a shot in the dark since I have heard neither the 8802A nor the 7702MKii, but at 1200 bucks the latter looks to be the better value. Lets remember that these units are primarily intended to be the front end of a home theater, and as such, is paying 2-3 times for the higher unit really worth it? You CAN get a pretty kick ass preamp with a HT bypass to drive your 2 channel section with the coin saved.

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post #99 of 109 Old 10-23-2016, 01:38 PM
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I had a chance to A/B them in a well treated room with fabulous equipment at @malikrashad;. To me, the 8802 sounded substantially better. The 7702 sounded great and much better than the Denon 4200 we also had but truly couldn't touch the sound of the 8802. On paper or by specs, you shouldn't hear a difference but the difference was clear to me and everyone in the room - the 8802 is fantastic!
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post #100 of 109 Old 10-23-2016, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by zorax2 View Post
I had a chance to A/B them in a well treated room with fabulous equipment....

Well, there you go then.


My mid-fi equipment resides in a family room treated with furniture. As such, I'd rather spend the extra money on stuff more fun than boxes whittled out of copper.


All kidding aside, I'm just reluctant to spend big coin on processor tech, as it moves so quickly these days. Besides, since there are plenty of claims of the two units sounding VERY close to one another....

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post #101 of 109 Old 10-24-2016, 09:33 AM
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I had several unit at home to test a few months back. Yamaha 5100, 8802, 7702MKii, Anthem AVM 60(this one wasn't tested against the Marantz units only the Yammy). The 8802 did sound better than the 7702MKii. To me it was also noticeable.
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post #102 of 109 Old 10-24-2016, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
Well, there you go then.


My mid-fi equipment resides in a family room treated with furniture. As such, I'd rather spend the extra money on stuff more fun than boxes whittled out of copper.


All kidding aside, I'm just reluctant to spend big coin on processor tech, as it moves so quickly these days. Besides, since there are plenty of claims of the two units sounding VERY close to one another....
I agree, I went with the Yammy, because it sounded better to me than the 8802 which was allot more $. But the 7702 at the current price is a very nice deal.
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post #103 of 109 Old 10-25-2016, 07:36 PM
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It's Christmas in October.
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post #104 of 109 Old 11-13-2016, 09:58 PM
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Question for you fine gentlemen...

I currently run an 8801 in my dedicated theater (gear in sig). Recently upgraded my display to 4K so now obviously my proc is the weak link video wise. With the recent price plunge on the 7702mkii, would this be a sonic downgrade over my 8801, or would I not notice or possibly detect a slight improvement? I already thought my room sounded transcendent, so if my SQ is a lateral move im cool with that...just not with stepping backwards.

My room is basically pure TV/Movie/Gaming applications...very rare Tidal streaming (I primarily use discrete sonos play ecosystem around the house for my music needs).

Thanks in advance.

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post #105 of 109 Old 11-14-2016, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABSiNTH View Post
Question for you fine gentlemen...

I currently run an 8801 in my dedicated theater (gear in sig). Recently upgraded my display to 4K so now obviously my proc is the weak link video wise. With the recent price plunge on the 7702mkii, would this be a sonic downgrade over my 8801, or would I not notice or possibly detect a slight improvement? I already thought my room sounded transcendent, so if my SQ is a lateral move im cool with that...just not with stepping backwards.

My room is basically pure TV/Movie/Gaming applications...very rare Tidal streaming (I primarily use discrete sonos play ecosystem around the house for my music needs).

Thanks in advance.
I've been in too many comparisons to count. I've also taken in well over 75, 8801's for 7702's or mkii's. The powersupply of the 8801 is better. The separate DAC's are to the next level. The copper chassis (which someone who didn't understand signal paths made fun of) also is a lower noise floor which means lower jitter. The reality is the current feedback operational op amps (HDAM's) were re-worked and that was a big deal. Measurement wise, the slew rate plummeted. To the ear, you are more easily hearing the resolution. As important, they made additional improvements in the output section on both the 7702, MKII, and 8802 and really simplified that portion of the circuit. I wrote this up a while ago. Read this http://www.soundvideo.com/2015/01/29...s-comparisons/ and click on the Powerpoint links. That link also shows some 8801 internals.

The net-net: there is an every slight edge on the 7702mkii or 7703 over the 8801. Out of the 75 old 8801 buyers, I've heard a couple of complaints that they went backwards. The other 73 (which isn't exact, but a very close estimate) thought they went forward.

You might want to contemplate the 7703. I predict their new pending app will be a big deal to the ear. It's coming in a couple of months(ish) for $20(ish). There will be target curves, the ability to turn on an off EQ are various spots, etc.
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post #106 of 109 Old 11-28-2016, 08:19 PM
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Without comparing the 7702mkII and the 8802a side by side and based on components and design, I would think that the 8802a will (probably) sound better than the 7702mkII for stereo.

My question is for 7.1, 5.1.4 and 7.1.4... will the improvements in the 8802a make a noticeable improvement in multi-channel modes? My biggest concern is (center channel) dialog as this is always a challenge for any processor.

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post #107 of 109 Old 12-31-2016, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbo View Post
I had several unit at home to test a few months back. Yamaha 5100, 8802, 7702MKii, Anthem AVM 60(this one wasn't tested against the Marantz units only the Yammy). The 8802 did sound better than the 7702MKii. To me it was also noticeable.
Just curious - what were your thoughts on the others you tested? I'm looking to replace my Onkyo TXNR-709. Surely any of the above will sound better than my current unit, but would like to replace it with something best suited for two channel and multichannel audio. It will be paired with my Sunfire Cinema Grand 200x5, pushing a vintage Pinnacle Gold 5.1 setup with Pinnacle Gold Aerogels as mains, and two Velo SPL12's for subs.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
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post #108 of 109 Old 01-04-2017, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by v6viking View Post
Just curious - what were your thoughts on the others you tested? I'm looking to replace my Onkyo TXNR-709. Surely any of the above will sound better than my current unit, but would like to replace it with something best suited for two channel and multichannel audio. It will be paired with my Sunfire Cinema Grand 200x5, pushing a vintage Pinnacle Gold 5.1 setup with Pinnacle Gold Aerogels as mains, and two Velo SPL12's for subs.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
I'm not familiar with either the Sunfire or Pinnacle systems. But all the units sound great, you can't really go wrong with any. I was also coming from a Integra DHC-80.3 and DTA 70.1 and ended up with a Yamaha 5100 and Outlaw Audio 7700 amps. I was happy with the Integra sound and had they not removed Audyssey or at the least gone with something better than their own EQ like Dirac I would have given them 1st dibs and might not have tried the others. Since they they went with their own EQ correction systems I decided to try out other systems. I thought that I would have chosen the Marantz before I started and it was a close call. My Home theater room is a dedicated Home theater and is treated. Prior to changing the Pre/Pro I changed my speakers to Wharfedale Jade 7's and ended up having to change my Amp because the Integra amp could not drive the Jades. That was the best thing I ever did, the Outlaw Audio Amps made my speakers 1000 times better. I would never buy a Amp from a big name again.

Back to the Pre/Pro's. Since I had a Extra Amp, I figured I could use it for Atmos/DTSX Duty. So that's when I decided to try out new Pre/Pro's. I picked up a Yamaha 5100 and the 2 Marantz units. Right from the start I could hear that the 5100 and 8802 were far better than the 7702mkii. Far more detail in the sound. I could hear things in those two units I could not hear in the 7702mkii. The 5100 and 8802 don't sound the same(they both have their own house sound). The Yamaha I thought was far more neutral and had more detail in the high end. The Marants has a warmer sound, rolls the high end and tends to exaggerate the surrounds(I believe this is because of Audyssey). The Marantz with Audyssey sounded closer to the Integra. I decided to go with the Yamaha because that's what matched with my system better and that's what my ears liked.

I then returned the Marantz units and tried the Anthem. The Anthem sounds great. If you want a system that can do both Movies and Music it's the one to get. But since I use the Theater mostly for movies, I chose the Yamaha. To my Ears the Yamaha sounds better with Movies than any of the units. The Anthem sounds better with music. I ended up liking the Anthem so much I returned it and purchased a MRX720 for my living room to get the Anthem sound.
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post #109 of 109 Old 03-23-2017, 09:27 AM
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Great Feedback..

Quote:
Originally Posted by zigzag666 View Post
I decided to purchase the 7702mk2 rather than the 8802A after lengthy discussion with my AV supplier (who I will not mention by name as he is a frequent contributor on this site and sells Marantz among many other brands). He set up both units side by side and had ample time to determine any sonic differences. His comment to me is that there was virtually NO difference to be heard and that he actually recommended the 7702mk2 as a better investment. I've purchased most of my AV equipment from this same person since about 1995, so needless to say I trust his advice.

What I understand, the differences in the unit are: a) 8802A uses a toroidal transformer while the 7702mk2 uses a TL transformer. People may prefer one style over the other so if the transformer choice is important to you, then make your choice respectively, b) the 8802A is heavier and the chassis is more rigid. Well my stand is well damped and I don't ask my friends to lift my equipment to "feel" it's weight before we enjoy listening, so this didn't "weigh (pun intended) into my decision. Anyway, much of that extra weight is probably due to the toroidal transformer more than anything else. (IMHO)

So, while I have not personally had a chance to own both - I was fortunate to have honest, professional advice to help me choose.

In any case, I could not be happier with the 7702mk2, which replaced my BK Reference 70. It sounds great. Even my wife (who rarely comments on AV gear), can hear better sound from this unit. How much is because the Marantz is a better unit than my highly regarded Ref 70 .... or how much is due to Audyssey? Tough to say. All I can say is the end result is sound that's much better to my ears.

Regarding my reasons for upgrading: 1) was able to sell Ref 70 for a good price, 2) wanted DTS-MA and TrueHD decoding, 3) Lost of nice to haves (like bluetooth, Internet radio, etc), 4) 3D sound. 5) HDMI 2.0/HDCP2.2 even though I don't intend to upgrade my projector for at least a few years.

With respect to Atmos, I am still experimenting with speaker placement. I've gone to listen to IC speakers and really do think they are much better sounding than wall mounted "heights" as I've been attempting to use. However, I've actually decided to stop moving the speakers around for a while, until DTS-X comes out. The immersive sound is a big step up, but speaker placement is more critical than for 2D 5.1/7.1 Once I have DTS-S (hopefully March 3rd) I will get back to this project.
Glad I found your thoughts and comment on this selection Thank you for the frank analysis and posting .. This should be in its own thread lol..
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