Arcam AVR-850 & Arcam AVR-550 - Page 109 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3241 of 3364 Old 06-21-2019, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by surroundsound99 View Post
What you are hearing goes back to the roots of Dolby and DTS, I believe. Front and center speakers have always been behind the screen in a movie theater. Therefore when Dolby sound engineers first started working for Hollywood, they adjusted sound levels accordingly, bumping up the sound of the front speakers so that by the time the sound transpired through the screen to the audience, the levels were back to those intended when recorded on set or in the sound studio. Later, when Dolby Surround and Dolby Pro Logic entered the home, the sound levels were not always reduced. They stayed at the same level, even though most people don't have speakers behind their screens as you find in movie theaters. That's why Dolby seems louder. Along came DTS on the scene later, and their engineers adjusted the levels back down accordingly, to account for home theaters not having screens in front of their speakers. That's why DTS seems more quiet. It's all about whether the speakers are behind the screen or not. All that being said, I believe Hollywood and Dolby sound engineers know that know most people don't have speakers behind their screens, so therefore bumping up the sound isn't necessary and their levels are more balanced now, for home, but still I think you're right, Dolby "sounds" louder than DTS. Don't be fooled though, louder does not mean better of course, just like brighter TVs on the showroom floor aren't always the best TVs. Same concept.
What you say makes some sense. However with some receivers DTS sounds louder, relative to Dolby, than it does with the Arcam. My Marantz 7010 being one such example.
I'm not totally convinced that it is just a loudness thing but also different processing by the different receivers. I'm not sure though.
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post #3242 of 3364 Old 06-21-2019, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by philipbtz View Post
And this is why we have the loudness war..when even enthusiasts think that louder equals better There are a lot of variables here so I wouldn't jump too quickly to conclusions. What DTS/Dolby mixes are being compared here?
Try to listen to any DTS/DTS-HD title, and use the DTS Neural x upmixer and then switch to Dolby surround u can clearly hear the different, and no we are not talking about loudness here, iam also against loudness, but there is clear lack of dynamic when using DTS.
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post #3243 of 3364 Old 06-21-2019, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by surroundsound99 View Post
What you are hearing goes back to the roots of Dolby and DTS, I believe. Front and center speakers have always been behind the screen in a movie theater. Therefore when Dolby sound engineers first started working for Hollywood, they adjusted sound levels accordingly, bumping up the sound of the front speakers so that by the time the sound transpired through the screen to the audience, the levels were back to those intended when recorded on set or in the sound studio. Later, when Dolby Surround and Dolby Pro Logic entered the home, the sound levels were not always reduced. They stayed at the same level, even though most people don't have speakers behind their screens as you find in movie theaters. That's why Dolby seems louder. Along came DTS on the scene later, and their engineers adjusted the levels back down accordingly, to account for home theaters not having screens in front of their speakers. That's why DTS seems more quiet. It's all about whether the speakers are behind the screen or not. All that being said, I believe Hollywood and Dolby sound engineers know that know most people don't have speakers behind their screens, so therefore bumping up the sound isn't necessary and their levels are more balanced now, for home, but still I think you're right, Dolby "sounds" louder than DTS. Don't be fooled though, louder does not mean better of course, just like brighter TVs on the showroom floor aren't always the best TVs. Same concept.
I agree with that loud doesn't allways means better sound, and iam aware of the loudness war, but we are not only saying that the sound been some what lower on DTS , there is also lack of dynamic when playing DTS.
i have been using a lot of receiver from a lot of differents brand denon, matarnz,pioneer , Yamaha , rotel u name it, on all of those unit DTS would sounds almost equal to Dobly, how come its only on this Arcam that DTS sound different?
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post #3244 of 3364 Old 06-21-2019, 09:12 AM
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And let's not forget that Arcam allready aware of one issue with these AVR. after some users have reported an issue that with some DTS-HD titles there an issue where the Center dialogue would come out from the left&right front speakers channels...so the way these AVR. process DTS is in a question here.
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post #3245 of 3364 Old 06-22-2019, 01:49 AM
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First of all I want to say that I've also found the Dolby upmixer to sound the best. But I've not bothered to in depth compare them.

Let's not forget all the times the sound on the actual disc is wrong as well! I've personally experienced this where I had to send in my disc to Paramount and they sent me an updated disc. The dialog was mixed in the center channel + the right channel or something like that. A lot of movies just have really poor mixes as well and once you find a good mix you'll be lucky if it's not brick-walled at 30Hz..or has a lot of clipping or something.

There are many variables here but yes history tells us that there is a reasonable chance that Arcam messed something up. But it's like this with ALL AVRs.

Until someone can compare a known good DTS soundtrack with a known working AVR it's had to say what the issue is that people are experiencing. I might have a listen to some older DTS tracks if I have time..People who have the time and energy maybe you could tests some other discs as well to see if it's consistent.

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post #3246 of 3364 Old 07-07-2019, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by alexbarbel View Post
Has anyone got the problem where when the unit is shut down totally , as opposed to being put into standby, then on resumption the crossover for the height speakers has defaulted to 50Hz instead of retaining the value you had set ?
The crossover for the floor speakers, however, is retained at your set value.
Yes, this is a bug. I reported it to Arcam a few months back.
Also my AV860 crashes when connected to a projector that turns off HDMI power supply like my new JVC N7. Using a HDFury in between fixed this, but it shouldn't be necessary.
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post #3247 of 3364 Old 07-07-2019, 01:43 PM
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ATV4 Atmos on the Arcam

Hi, does any of you use an ATV4 to watch netflix and get an Atmos signal in the AV? If you do, what are your settings on the ATV?
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post #3248 of 3364 Old 07-10-2019, 03:08 AM
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I don't get why Arcam are soooo slooowww with their updates.
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post #3249 of 3364 Old 07-10-2019, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Teejoo View Post
Hi, does any of you use an ATV4 to watch netflix and get an Atmos signal in the AV? If you do, what are your settings on the ATV?


Use the pana uhd player for this and also uses the pana optimizer


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post #3250 of 3364 Old 07-26-2019, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Teejoo View Post
Hi, does any of you use an ATV4 to watch netflix and get an Atmos signal in the AV? If you do, what are your settings on the ATV?


Check that Dolby Atmos is enabled on your ATV and that you’re using the Dolby Surround mode on your Arcam. It should work as expected. Not tried it myself though.
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post #3251 of 3364 Old 07-27-2019, 06:37 AM
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Check that Dolby Atmos is enabled on your ATV and that you’re using the Dolby Surround mode on your Arcam. It should work as expected. Not tried it myself though.
Both are enabled. That's why I'm looking for someone who has successfully used this combination. One would think lot's of Arcam users use an ATV.
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post #3252 of 3364 Old 07-29-2019, 08:27 AM
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Both are enabled. That's why I'm looking for someone who has successfully used this combination. One would think lot's of Arcam users use an ATV.
I don't use ATV4 but try setting "Ext. Mode" to None. I was having problems getting Atmos from disc sources and when I changed that setting I haven't had a problem since.
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post #3253 of 3364 Old 07-29-2019, 10:30 AM
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Teejoo... nit all movies on netflix are atmos...
Have you also the highest level of membership?

Do you have atmos netflix via your pana?


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post #3254 of 3364 Old 07-29-2019, 10:37 AM
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I run the Apple TV4K and Netflix Ultra and I have no issues getting Dolby Atmos from Netflix or movies bought in the Apple store. Really descent sound for streaming I have to say! I can't remember setting anything special it's always worked.

What is the exact issue you are having? Are you sure you have all your Atmos speakers connected as well? You won't get the receiver to go into Atmos mode if the speakers are not setup in the menu correctly AND connected.

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post #3255 of 3364 Old 07-29-2019, 06:40 PM
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I don't get why Arcam are soooo slooowww with their updates.

Agree with you on this. It's like they release a newer model for you to get any new feature.
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post #3256 of 3364 Old 07-31-2019, 11:37 AM
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Agree with you on this. It's like they release a newer model for you to get any new feature.
I emailed them a couple of weeks ago and they have a list of known issues they said they are going to fix in their next update but they didn't have an ETA on it.

I'm not sure what they would accomplish by releasing a new series of AVRs. I mean what are they going to add? It would be HDMI 2.1 but that's still far away. Hi-end brands will not jump on the wagon until the new stuff is all sorted out and that will be a while. Or if they did it would be a really bad move. They should focus on making the current line-up rock solid and work on their brand reputation.

The feature set on these AVRs is still way beyond what most people will use. There are very few people that are ACTUALLY running 7.1.4 or beyond. If they release a new AVR series they better focus on quality. HDMI 2.1, Dirac bass module with support for at least four subs(I'd like to see with 6+), more advanced BM with slope configuration, individual crossovers etc. is a good place to start other than that I don't know of anything interesting.

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post #3257 of 3364 Old 07-31-2019, 11:26 PM
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I emailed them a couple of weeks ago and they have a list of known issues they said they are going to fix in their next update but they didn't have an ETA on it.

I'm not sure what they would accomplish by releasing a new series of AVRs. I mean what are they going to add? It would be HDMI 2.1 but that's still far away. Hi-end brands will not jump on the wagon until the new stuff is all sorted out and that will be a while. Or if they did it would be a really bad move. They should focus on making the current line-up rock solid and work on their brand reputation.

The feature set on these AVRs is still way beyond what most people will use. There are very few people that are ACTUALLY running 7.1.4 or beyond. If they release a new AVR series they better focus on quality. HDMI 2.1, Dirac bass module with support for at least four subs(I'd like to see with 6+), more advanced BM with slope configuration, individual crossovers etc. is a good place to start other than that I don't know of anything interesting.
Personally I would like to see the ability to set different sound profiles for music and movies and also 3 or 4 slots in which to load the Dirac projects with switching between them quick and simple. This would be useful for comparing the different projects when deciding which to use.

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post #3258 of 3364 Old 08-01-2019, 07:23 AM
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I don't use ATV4 but try setting "Ext. Mode" to None. I was having problems getting Atmos from disc sources and when I changed that setting I haven't had a problem since.
Doesn't make any difference.
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I run the Apple TV4K and Netflix Ultra and I have no issues getting Dolby Atmos from Netflix or movies bought in the Apple store. Really descent sound for streaming I have to say! I can't remember setting anything special it's always worked.

What is the exact issue you are having? Are you sure you have all your Atmos speakers connected as well? You won't get the receiver to go into Atmos mode if the speakers are not setup in the menu correctly AND connected.
I have the AV860 and everything is connected. Atmos works fine with discs and the Netflix app on my Panasonic UB9000. I have the correct Netflix membership.

All I see is that the ATV keeps sending an multichannel pcm signal to the Arcam and no Atmos is displayed. Of course the Arcam upmixes the 5.1 signal to all my 7.1.4 setup, bu I don't understand why I don't get any Atmos just like I get with other sources.

Could you check your ATV settings?
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post #3260 of 3364 Old 08-01-2019, 09:14 AM
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Doesn't make any difference.
Sorry
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post #3261 of 3364 Old 08-01-2019, 10:34 AM
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I have the AV860 and everything is connected. Atmos works fine with discs and the Netflix app on my Panasonic UB9000. I have the correct Netflix membership.

All I see is that the ATV keeps sending an multichannel pcm signal to the Arcam and no Atmos is displayed. Of course the Arcam upmixes the 5.1 signal to all my 7.1.4 setup, bu I don't understand why I don't get any Atmos just like I get with other sources.

Could you check your ATV settings?


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post #3262 of 3364 Old 08-01-2019, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by alexbarbel View Post
Personally I would like to see the ability to set different sound profiles for music and movies and also 3 or 4 slots in which to load the Dirac projects with switching between them quick and simple. This would be useful for comparing the different projects when deciding which to use.
I'm not sure why you'd want different sound for music and movies - sound is sound But I do agree on that it would sometimes be convenient with more slots. But after Dirac 2 was released I'm getting more consistent results. With version 1 it was more all over the place.

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post #3263 of 3364 Old 08-01-2019, 01:19 PM
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Thanks for the screenshot! I noticed I didn't have the 'Atmos available' but only 'Auto' displayed, although in the submenu Atmos was enabled... Disabling and enabling Atmos fixed it! Now I also see Atmos available and it works!

Strange, but happy that it finally works!
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post #3264 of 3364 Old 08-02-2019, 08:04 PM
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There's a June release of Dirac the Dirac Live V2.2.3. Don't remember reading it here so apologies if it has been mentioned.

From the changelog:

Improved usability

Refreshed, modern user interface that features a simplified setup procedure

Enhanced Phase Correction algorithm for improved stereo reproduction

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post #3265 of 3364 Old 08-02-2019, 11:38 PM
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There's a June release of Dirac the Dirac Live V2.2.3. Don't remember reading it here so apologies if it has been mentioned.

From the changelog:

Improved usability

Refreshed, modern user interface that features a simplified setup procedure

Enhanced Phase Correction algorithm for improved stereo reproduction

https://live.dirac.com/download/



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I have noticed that the mobile app does not support Arcam anyone knows why?


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post #3266 of 3364 Old 08-03-2019, 03:03 AM
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I'm not sure why you'd want different sound for music and movies - sound is sound But I do agree on that it would sometimes be convenient with more slots. But after Dirac 2 was released I'm getting more consistent results. With version 1 it was more all over the place.
You are correct in saying "sound is sound" but I am particularly sensitive to too much bass in music but am quite happy to dial in a bit more for movies. Perhaps that's just me but my Marantz 7010 had different profiles for music and movies and I did find that useful.

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post #3267 of 3364 Old 08-03-2019, 05:28 AM
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In my case, it's just the opposite

Bass in the movie material is already pretty "hot". For music, you need to add some "juice" with proper Harman or House Curve.
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post #3268 of 3364 Old 08-03-2019, 05:28 AM
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One silly question. If I buy a second hand AVR550, will I be able to use the Dirac License? Or it remains in the PC of the original owner?

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post #3269 of 3364 Old 08-04-2019, 06:04 AM
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There is no license file, the Dirac software recognizes the AVR as a licensed product and you’re good to go.
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post #3270 of 3364 Old 08-05-2019, 07:01 AM
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In my case, it's just the opposite

Bass in the movie material is already pretty "hot". For music, you need to add some "juice" with proper Harman or House Curve.
For me it's the same expect those rare, good recordings. I've tried to add some bass for highly compressed music(most music) and although it sort of works I've found that in the end trying to add "dynamics" when they're not really there usually ends up just adding a lot of boom to the bass with a noticeable feeling of the music being EQed. The music industry just needs to get it's act together and at least release music with an alternative mastering for people who have the Hi-Fi systems to reproduce the dynamics.

In the last few years I've gravitated towards more movies and series with good Atmos mixes to get the most enjoyment out of my system. Sometimes on the weekends I might listen to some new recordings people recommend on various forums but in the end I want to listen to music I actually like as well. Kind of sucks but the bad recordings has basically led me to listen to less music. It's a shame now that I actually have a good system that can reproduce it. A problem that should not be there imo.
soren likes this.

Room| Treated | Sound| Front: Ino Audio i32s, Center: Ino Audio i16s, Surrounds: 6 x Ino a2, 6 x Ino a1, Subs: 6 x Ino Infra-Y|
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