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-   -   Arcam AVR-850 & Arcam AVR-550 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2194337-arcam-avr-850-arcam-avr-550-a.html)

DS-21 11-27-2015 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flax (Post 39252634)
That's a good point so I've investigated and from what I've heard the 96 KHz support is for Stereo while multichannel is at 48 KHz because of DSP limits.

Flavio

Thanks for the clarification. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that, at least as of the upcoming product cycle, the audio DSP's suitable for AVRs available in cost/quantity the smaller players (e.g. Anthem, Arcam/AudioControl) can reasonably pass on to consumers aren't yet powerful enough to do the full job needed for immersive audio: 7.1.4 channels of decoding and/or upmixing, EQ on the level of Dirac/ARC for all channels, sophisticated loudness compensation for people who care about maintaining their hearing. I would love to be wrong about that!

Too bad, but understandable. I remember when Audyssey AVRs didn't have enough DSP for full volume control, which led to companies like Emotiva making a good living selling high-gain amps. These kinds of technology upgrades are always messy.

Denoontje 11-27-2015 02:00 PM

Arcam AVR-850 & Arcam AVR-550
 
My info is on the 850 fulltime direc all channels!
Separate settings for 2 subs.


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nadyn 11-28-2015 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denoontje (Post 39278890)
My info is on the 850 fulltime direc all channels!
Separate settings for 2 subs.


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were did you find that info or is there an official statement that the 550 it's not full Dirac?

Filou6901 11-28-2015 04:44 AM

Question to AVR 850 :
I have 5.1 System + Front High
I need a Power Amplifier , additionally ?

NorthSky 11-28-2015 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nadyn (Post 39290314)
were did you find that info or is there an official statement that the 550 it's not full Dirac?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filou6901 (Post 39290746)
Question to AVR 850 :
I have 5.1 System + Front High
I need a Power Amplifier , additionally ?

♦ Best forum thread for all info: https://www.avforums.com/threads/arc...-live.1985785/

NorthSky 11-29-2015 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkeeler10 (Post 39259594)
I agree that the notion that the height channels are of lesser importance when it comes to EQ is false. Do we know if it's just the 550 that does this, or does the 850 also omit Dirac EQ for the heights?

https://www.avforums.com/threads/arc...#post-22861124

NorthSky 11-30-2015 11:15 AM

♠ Quick outlook (Arcam AVR850) :: http://www.areadvd.de/tests/special-...einmesssystem/

* Use the [Translation] feature of your browser (normally indicated on your top toolbar, or @ the end of the URL address space - top right - ▀▄ ).

madhuski 12-05-2015 04:49 AM

@mmiles - do you know what the street prices of the audiocontrol units will be?

mmiles 12-05-2015 05:24 AM

6200 and 4600 USD

I'm sure they have to list higher than Arcam based on agreement with OEM . They used to list lower.

However I understand cost are about the same.

NorthSky 12-05-2015 12:23 PM

AudioControl new receivers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mmiles (Post 39491394)
6200 and 4600 USD

I'm sure they have to list higher than Arcam based on agreement with OEM . They used to list lower.

However I understand cost are about the same.

The latest MSRP (USD) prices I saw:

- AVR-9 = $6,200
- AVR-7 = $4,200

Maybe they're going up in price to keep in line with the increasingly speedy inflation? ...Sound pressure? ;-)

mmiles 12-05-2015 08:12 PM

^^^
AVR7 - MSRP is indeed $4200 USD

my mistake.

NorthSky 12-05-2015 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmiles (Post 39510970)
AVR7 - MSRP is indeed $4200 USD

my mistake.

No sweat; small stuff. ;):D

madhuski 12-06-2015 05:08 AM

thanks - debating wether to wait for one of these, or give the xmc a try

nadyn 12-06-2015 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madhuski (Post 39515442)
thanks - debating wether to wait for one of these, or give the xmc a try

If your are happy with HDMI 1.4b and you have a separate power amp, that might be an option given they have 20% if at the moment :)

flax 12-08-2015 03:05 AM

Comments from forumers who have actually tried the first available Arcam receivers have started being posted:
https://www.avforums.com/threads/arc...#post-22950694

Flavio

markus767 12-08-2015 09:57 AM

236 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by DS-21 (Post 39251186)
Is the real issue that there's not enough DSP horsepower in the current chips to do things properly? If so, then the choice to raise sampling rate to 96kHz instead of implementing EQ properly was a mistake, because that wastes resources for a dumb marketing point at the cost of a useful feature.

Sounds like business as usual to me :) For example, an AVR/pre-pro with proper automated bass management? Doesn't exist unless we're talking about 5 figure price tags.

DS-21 12-08-2015 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus767 (Post 39575242)
Sounds like business as usual to me :) For example, an AVR/pre-pro with proper automated bass management? Doesn't exist unless we're talking about 5 figure price tags.

What don't you like about Anthem's implementation?

markus767 12-08-2015 02:50 PM

236 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by DS-21 (Post 39583778)
What don't you like about Anthem's implementation?

Is it single speaker optimization or does it (also) optimize the combined response of sub(s) and satellites? Spatially distributed mic positions? Any weighting applied?

NorthSky 12-08-2015 03:04 PM

What do you propose Markus, get better jobs and Trinnov? ...Or get two miniDSP DDRC-88A black boxes?

DS-21 12-08-2015 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus767 (Post 39584010)
Is it single speaker optimization or does it (also) optimize the combined response of sub(s) and satellites? Spatially distributed mic positions? Any weighting applied?

Single-speaker unfortunately, but they try to sculpt the individual components to roll off predictably. See Rich. No idea about weighting.

markus767 12-08-2015 11:44 PM

236 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by DS-21 (Post 39585642)
Single-speaker unfortunately, but they try to sculpt the individual components to roll off predictably. See Rich. No idea about weighting.

Statistically that's probably not any better than flattening the response and applying the crossover the AVR provides (Audyssey, Dirac Live, etc.).
The problem in a bass managed system is that at lower frequencies we only hear a combination of several speakers – sub and C, sub and L and R, etc. – hence optimizing single speakers ignores the real issues digital room correction could solve.

nadyn 12-09-2015 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DS-21 (Post 39583778)
What don't you like about Anthem's implementation?

Simply, no proper delay setup and it's in 30cm/foot increment(not granular enough), damn critical if one really wants to proper integrate a Sub(s).
Cheers

nadyn 12-12-2015 09:47 PM

Any happy owner out there that can give us a quick review of the AVR 550?
Cheers

erwinfrombelgium 12-21-2015 01:50 PM

Subscribed!

Atmos 7.1.4 and Dirac Live? Very interesting!

I suppose amps cannot be re-asigned? Like if you add a 5 channel amp for LCRS, you cannot use the internal amps for the Height channels?

Denoontje 12-21-2015 02:56 PM

No only the last 2 surround/height channels can be asigned. Via de preouts you can connect a poweramp.


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cdoggy 12-29-2015 01:02 AM

Good review (maybe you have to he google translation) is now online on areadvd dot de . i can`t post links so far but use the search funtion (german "suche") or browse the latest test. You will find an xxl test of the AVR550!

i think that will answer some of our questions....

erwinfrombelgium 12-29-2015 03:35 AM

Link:
AVR 550 • Area DVD

Thanks!

NorthSky 12-29-2015 11:03 PM

In that review (from the German site areadvd) I see only seven channels EQued by Dirac Live; no Back surrounds, no second pair of Height surrounds, and no Subwoofer.

My question is: Is this Dirac Live for only seven channels or the full twelve channels on a Dolby Atmos/DTS:X full setup (7.1.4)?

I mean it's very nice to see Dirac Live now implemented inside the first AV receiver with a review. But for three-thousand European clams (about 6,000 loonies or $6,000 Canadian dollars), I sure want more than seven (or eight) channels being equalized by Dirac Live. Or might as well stick with the Emotiva XMC-1 pre/pro for $2,500 USD.
...Or buy a receiver (or pre/pro) that can do Dolby Atmos and DTS:X 7.1.4 and add a Dirac Live black box for one thousand clams (USD).

* This review, in my opinion, is less than complete...and sounds more like advertisement with prose to me.
For a serious machine like this, with a new serious EQ system that uses the computational power of your laptop, and with serious money asked for...I want the real pudding from areadvd staff, with much more than just one page. If areadvd is serious about their website audio/video magazine, they got to deliver. And here, again, they come up short of what they can do.

So the question now is this: Are they doing this as a favor to the companies they represent, or as a favor to us the customers who seriously want to learn it all?
Well, I think that each intelligent person here can answer that question on their own.

That review definitely needs a Take 2, with much more depth. I doubt that it will happen, so it is one member from somewhere who will take the real challenge for all our benefit.
I will investigate, and research further for concrete facts.

♦ Arcam/Dirac Live ... nice. But!

♦♦ Marantz/Denon || Auro-3D/Audyssey XT32 and add an external or two Dirac Live black boxes ... nice too. Arcam doesn't offer Auro-3D as an option.

And what's the best deal/value/combination/performance overall? ...And simplicity too. ...Plus the other best features (streaming and @ what kind of res). ...And! HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 for UHD with Arcam?

Fifteen kilos is not very heavy for a premium receiver. You need additional four power amps...so add to that 3,000 € Euros (German £).

erwinfrombelgium 12-30-2015 05:37 AM

Dirac is only 7 channels + LFE...

I still believe it's a fine offer for the price. If it were me, I would add a XPA-7 for LCR and the 4 Heights and leave the Heights un-diraced.

Otherwise I'd still need the XPA-7 and pay the same 3K for a 11.2 Denon AVR + miniDSP with Dirac for 8 channels and get the same sonic results. But with the Arcam, there's one less ADA conversion and one less box to instal.

Edit: with the Denon you have 9 channels on board, so a XPA-5 would suffice. Maybe even less if the internal amps are interchangeable from Front to Height, which I doubt.

NorthSky 12-30-2015 12:46 PM

1. Dirac Live for 8 channels - got that.
2. 3300 € = $3,610 USD = $5,010 Cdn (as of the exchange today). ...And roughly 2400 £
3. For Atmos/dtsX 7.1.4 full setup you need additional amplification...on top of the MSRP price from just above (2).
4. Still four (4) channels won't be Dirac EQued.
5. For a Canadian guy who starts building a 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos/dtsX setup, and who has no amplification yet, the Arcam AVR550 (five grands...MSRP), additional amplication for the other four channels (Rotel used multich amp for about $1,500), and of course the four overhead Atmox/dtX speakers (another Cdn grand or $1,500 for better speakers), that's roughly a $8,000 Cnd proposition (MSRP). ...That is quite serious dough for an incomplete Dirac Live sound system! ...Even when shaving off 25% of that sum.

And the Arcam AVR850 won't be any cheaper, and not more Dirac Live channels either.

Brief, we're not there yet, not till we can have @ least twelve channels of Dirac Live EQ (sixteen preferably).

____________

* Fifteen kilos (15.5 kg = 34 pounds) is quite light for a premium receiver that retails for over $5,000 Canadian loonies! ...Over $3,600 USD!


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