Arcam AVR-850 & Arcam AVR-550 - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 3219Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 3249 Old 11-27-2015, 10:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,892
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1192 Post(s)
Liked: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by flax View Post
That's a good point so I've investigated and from what I've heard the 96 KHz support is for Stereo while multichannel is at 48 KHz because of DSP limits.

Flavio
Thanks for the clarification. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that, at least as of the upcoming product cycle, the audio DSP's suitable for AVRs available in cost/quantity the smaller players (e.g. Anthem, Arcam/AudioControl) can reasonably pass on to consumers aren't yet powerful enough to do the full job needed for immersive audio: 7.1.4 channels of decoding and/or upmixing, EQ on the level of Dirac/ARC for all channels, sophisticated loudness compensation for people who care about maintaining their hearing. I would love to be wrong about that!

Too bad, but understandable. I remember when Audyssey AVRs didn't have enough DSP for full volume control, which led to companies like Emotiva making a good living selling high-gain amps. These kinds of technology upgrades are always messy.
soren likes this.

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
DS-21 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 3249 Old 11-27-2015, 02:00 PM
Newbie
 
Denoontje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Arcam AVR-850 & Arcam AVR-550

My info is on the 850 fulltime direc all channels!
Separate settings for 2 subs.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk

Linnoontje Akurate Wilson benesch Square 5 stereo power, Arcamoontje Wilson benesch Square / Velodyne 7.2.4 dirac atmos power
Denoontje is online now  
post #63 of 3249 Old 11-28-2015, 03:55 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denoontje View Post
My info is on the 850 fulltime direc all channels!
Separate settings for 2 subs.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk
were did you find that info or is there an official statement that the 550 it's not full Dirac?
nadyn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #64 of 3249 Old 11-28-2015, 04:44 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Question to AVR 850 :
I have 5.1 System + Front High
I need a Power Amplifier , additionally ?
Filou6901 is offline  
post #65 of 3249 Old 11-28-2015, 02:54 PM
 
NorthSky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Star of the Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 16,643
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7012 Post(s)
Liked: 3561
Quote:
Originally Posted by nadyn View Post
were did you find that info or is there an official statement that the 550 it's not full Dirac?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filou6901 View Post
Question to AVR 850 :
I have 5.1 System + Front High
I need a Power Amplifier , additionally ?
♦ Best forum thread for all info: https://www.avforums.com/threads/arc...-live.1985785/
NorthSky is offline  
post #66 of 3249 Old 11-29-2015, 08:16 PM
 
NorthSky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Star of the Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 16,643
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7012 Post(s)
Liked: 3561
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post
I agree that the notion that the height channels are of lesser importance when it comes to EQ is false. Do we know if it's just the 550 that does this, or does the 850 also omit Dirac EQ for the heights?
https://www.avforums.com/threads/arc...#post-22861124
NorthSky is offline  
post #67 of 3249 Old 11-30-2015, 11:15 AM
 
NorthSky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Star of the Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 16,643
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7012 Post(s)
Liked: 3561
Lightbulb

♠ Quick outlook (Arcam AVR850) :: http://www.areadvd.de/tests/special-...einmesssystem/

* Use the [Translation] feature of your browser (normally indicated on your top toolbar, or @ the end of the URL address space - top right - ▀▄ ).

Last edited by NorthSky; 12-01-2015 at 01:26 AM.
NorthSky is offline  
post #68 of 3249 Old 12-05-2015, 04:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
madhuski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,613
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1290 Post(s)
Liked: 823
@mmiles - do you know what the street prices of the audiocontrol units will be?

Selling in AVS Classifieds
Revel Studio2 Pair - gloss black
madhuski is online now  
post #69 of 3249 Old 12-05-2015, 05:24 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,979
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 816 Post(s)
Liked: 432
6200 and 4600 USD

I'm sure they have to list higher than Arcam based on agreement with OEM . They used to list lower.

However I understand cost are about the same.

Mike Miles
[email protected]
mmiles is online now  
post #70 of 3249 Old 12-05-2015, 12:23 PM
 
NorthSky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Star of the Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 16,643
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7012 Post(s)
Liked: 3561
Arrow AudioControl new receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post
6200 and 4600 USD

I'm sure they have to list higher than Arcam based on agreement with OEM . They used to list lower.

However I understand cost are about the same.
The latest MSRP (USD) prices I saw:

- AVR-9 = $6,200
- AVR-7 = $4,200

Maybe they're going up in price to keep in line with the increasingly speedy inflation? ...Sound pressure? ;-)
NorthSky is offline  
post #71 of 3249 Old 12-05-2015, 08:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,979
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 816 Post(s)
Liked: 432
^^^
AVR7 - MSRP is indeed $4200 USD

my mistake.

Mike Miles
[email protected]
mmiles is online now  
post #72 of 3249 Old 12-05-2015, 09:12 PM
 
NorthSky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Star of the Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 16,643
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7012 Post(s)
Liked: 3561
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post
AVR7 - MSRP is indeed $4200 USD

my mistake.
No sweat; small stuff.
NorthSky is offline  
post #73 of 3249 Old 12-06-2015, 05:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
madhuski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,613
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1290 Post(s)
Liked: 823
thanks - debating wether to wait for one of these, or give the xmc a try

Selling in AVS Classifieds
Revel Studio2 Pair - gloss black
madhuski is online now  
post #74 of 3249 Old 12-06-2015, 07:14 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
thanks - debating wether to wait for one of these, or give the xmc a try
If your are happy with HDMI 1.4b and you have a separate power amp, that might be an option given they have 20% if at the moment
nadyn is offline  
post #75 of 3249 Old 12-08-2015, 03:05 AM
Senior Member
 
flax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 257
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Comments from forumers who have actually tried the first available Arcam receivers have started being posted:
https://www.avforums.com/threads/arc...#post-22950694

Flavio

Warning: My posts might be biased even if in good faith, I work for Dirac Research :-)
flax is offline  
post #76 of 3249 Old 12-08-2015, 09:57 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 11,767
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5645 Post(s)
Liked: 2668
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
Is the real issue that there's not enough DSP horsepower in the current chips to do things properly? If so, then the choice to raise sampling rate to 96kHz instead of implementing EQ properly was a mistake, because that wastes resources for a dumb marketing point at the cost of a useful feature.
Sounds like business as usual to me For example, an AVR/pre-pro with proper automated bass management? Doesn't exist unless we're talking about 5 figure price tags.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole

Last edited by markus767; 12-08-2015 at 12:57 PM.
markus767 is offline  
post #77 of 3249 Old 12-08-2015, 02:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,892
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1192 Post(s)
Liked: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Sounds like business as usual to me For example, an AVR/pre-pro with proper automated bass management? Doesn't exist unless we're talking about 5 figure price tags.
What don't you like about Anthem's implementation?

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
DS-21 is offline  
post #78 of 3249 Old 12-08-2015, 02:50 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 11,767
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5645 Post(s)
Liked: 2668
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
What don't you like about Anthem's implementation?
Is it single speaker optimization or does it (also) optimize the combined response of sub(s) and satellites? Spatially distributed mic positions? Any weighting applied?

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
post #79 of 3249 Old 12-08-2015, 03:04 PM
 
NorthSky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Star of the Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 16,643
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7012 Post(s)
Liked: 3561
What do you propose Markus, get better jobs and Trinnov? ...Or get two miniDSP DDRC-88A black boxes?
NorthSky is offline  
post #80 of 3249 Old 12-08-2015, 03:59 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,892
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1192 Post(s)
Liked: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Is it single speaker optimization or does it (also) optimize the combined response of sub(s) and satellites? Spatially distributed mic positions? Any weighting applied?
Single-speaker unfortunately, but they try to sculpt the individual components to roll off predictably. See Rich. No idea about weighting.

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
DS-21 is offline  
post #81 of 3249 Old 12-08-2015, 11:44 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 11,767
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5645 Post(s)
Liked: 2668
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
Single-speaker unfortunately, but they try to sculpt the individual components to roll off predictably. See Rich. No idea about weighting.
Statistically that's probably not any better than flattening the response and applying the crossover the AVR provides (Audyssey, Dirac Live, etc.).
The problem in a bass managed system is that at lower frequencies we only hear a combination of several speakers – sub and C, sub and L and R, etc. – hence optimizing single speakers ignores the real issues digital room correction could solve.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
post #82 of 3249 Old 12-09-2015, 04:32 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
What don't you like about Anthem's implementation?
Simply, no proper delay setup and it's in 30cm/foot increment(not granular enough), damn critical if one really wants to proper integrate a Sub(s).
Cheers
nadyn is offline  
post #83 of 3249 Old 12-12-2015, 09:47 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 7
Any happy owner out there that can give us a quick review of the AVR 550?
Cheers
nadyn is offline  
post #84 of 3249 Old 12-21-2015, 01:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
erwinfrombelgium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Flanders, Belgium
Posts: 1,275
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 269
Subscribed!

Atmos 7.1.4 and Dirac Live? Very interesting!

I suppose amps cannot be re-asigned? Like if you add a 5 channel amp for LCRS, you cannot use the internal amps for the Height channels?

Building a 9.1.6 HT: DIYSG Titan LX [LCR] • Cinema 10 Max [Surrounds] • Volt 10 altered and added passive radiators [Tops] • LLT 550 liter Mal-x 18" subs [2] • XPR-5 • Marantz MM8003 [2] • NU6000 • XMC-1 [RMC-1 with Dirac Unison wanted] • PT AT6000E • 130" Seymour Center XD • Oppo 103EU
erwinfrombelgium is offline  
post #85 of 3249 Old 12-21-2015, 02:56 PM
Newbie
 
Denoontje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 11
No only the last 2 surround/height channels can be asigned. Via de preouts you can connect a poweramp.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

Linnoontje Akurate Wilson benesch Square 5 stereo power, Arcamoontje Wilson benesch Square / Velodyne 7.2.4 dirac atmos power
Denoontje is online now  
post #86 of 3249 Old 12-29-2015, 01:02 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Lübeck, Germany
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Good review (maybe you have to he google translation) is now online on areadvd dot de . i can`t post links so far but use the search funtion (german "suche") or browse the latest test. You will find an xxl test of the AVR550!

i think that will answer some of our questions....
cdoggy is offline  
post #87 of 3249 Old 12-29-2015, 03:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
erwinfrombelgium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Flanders, Belgium
Posts: 1,275
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 269
Link:
AVR 550 • Area DVD

Thanks!

Building a 9.1.6 HT: DIYSG Titan LX [LCR] • Cinema 10 Max [Surrounds] • Volt 10 altered and added passive radiators [Tops] • LLT 550 liter Mal-x 18" subs [2] • XPR-5 • Marantz MM8003 [2] • NU6000 • XMC-1 [RMC-1 with Dirac Unison wanted] • PT AT6000E • 130" Seymour Center XD • Oppo 103EU
erwinfrombelgium is offline  
post #88 of 3249 Old 12-29-2015, 11:03 PM
 
NorthSky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Star of the Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 16,643
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7012 Post(s)
Liked: 3561
In that review (from the German site areadvd) I see only seven channels EQued by Dirac Live; no Back surrounds, no second pair of Height surrounds, and no Subwoofer.

My question is: Is this Dirac Live for only seven channels or the full twelve channels on a Dolby Atmos/DTS:X full setup (7.1.4)?

I mean it's very nice to see Dirac Live now implemented inside the first AV receiver with a review. But for three-thousand European clams (about 6,000 loonies or $6,000 Canadian dollars), I sure want more than seven (or eight) channels being equalized by Dirac Live. Or might as well stick with the Emotiva XMC-1 pre/pro for $2,500 USD.
...Or buy a receiver (or pre/pro) that can do Dolby Atmos and DTS:X 7.1.4 and add a Dirac Live black box for one thousand clams (USD).

* This review, in my opinion, is less than complete...and sounds more like advertisement with prose to me.
For a serious machine like this, with a new serious EQ system that uses the computational power of your laptop, and with serious money asked for...I want the real pudding from areadvd staff, with much more than just one page. If areadvd is serious about their website audio/video magazine, they got to deliver. And here, again, they come up short of what they can do.

So the question now is this: Are they doing this as a favor to the companies they represent, or as a favor to us the customers who seriously want to learn it all?
Well, I think that each intelligent person here can answer that question on their own.

That review definitely needs a Take 2, with much more depth. I doubt that it will happen, so it is one member from somewhere who will take the real challenge for all our benefit.
I will investigate, and research further for concrete facts.

♦ Arcam/Dirac Live ... nice. But!

♦♦ Marantz/Denon || Auro-3D/Audyssey XT32 and add an external or two Dirac Live black boxes ... nice too. Arcam doesn't offer Auro-3D as an option.

And what's the best deal/value/combination/performance overall? ...And simplicity too. ...Plus the other best features (streaming and @ what kind of res). ...And! HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 for UHD with Arcam?

Fifteen kilos is not very heavy for a premium receiver. You need additional four power amps...so add to that 3,000 € Euros (German £).
NorthSky is offline  
post #89 of 3249 Old 12-30-2015, 05:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
erwinfrombelgium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Flanders, Belgium
Posts: 1,275
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 269
Dirac is only 7 channels + LFE...

I still believe it's a fine offer for the price. If it were me, I would add a XPA-7 for LCR and the 4 Heights and leave the Heights un-diraced.

Otherwise I'd still need the XPA-7 and pay the same 3K for a 11.2 Denon AVR + miniDSP with Dirac for 8 channels and get the same sonic results. But with the Arcam, there's one less ADA conversion and one less box to instal.

Edit: with the Denon you have 9 channels on board, so a XPA-5 would suffice. Maybe even less if the internal amps are interchangeable from Front to Height, which I doubt.

Building a 9.1.6 HT: DIYSG Titan LX [LCR] • Cinema 10 Max [Surrounds] • Volt 10 altered and added passive radiators [Tops] • LLT 550 liter Mal-x 18" subs [2] • XPR-5 • Marantz MM8003 [2] • NU6000 • XMC-1 [RMC-1 with Dirac Unison wanted] • PT AT6000E • 130" Seymour Center XD • Oppo 103EU

Last edited by erwinfrombelgium; 12-30-2015 at 05:45 AM.
erwinfrombelgium is offline  
post #90 of 3249 Old 12-30-2015, 12:46 PM
 
NorthSky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Star of the Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 16,643
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7012 Post(s)
Liked: 3561
1. Dirac Live for 8 channels - got that.
2. 3300 € = $3,610 USD = $5,010 Cdn (as of the exchange today). ...And roughly 2400 £
3. For Atmos/dtsX 7.1.4 full setup you need additional amplification...on top of the MSRP price from just above (2).
4. Still four (4) channels won't be Dirac EQued.
5. For a Canadian guy who starts building a 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos/dtsX setup, and who has no amplification yet, the Arcam AVR550 (five grands...MSRP), additional amplication for the other four channels (Rotel used multich amp for about $1,500), and of course the four overhead Atmox/dtX speakers (another Cdn grand or $1,500 for better speakers), that's roughly a $8,000 Cnd proposition (MSRP). ...That is quite serious dough for an incomplete Dirac Live sound system! ...Even when shaving off 25% of that sum.

And the Arcam AVR850 won't be any cheaper, and not more Dirac Live channels either.

Brief, we're not there yet, not till we can have @ least twelve channels of Dirac Live EQ (sixteen preferably).

____________

* Fifteen kilos (15.5 kg = 34 pounds) is quite light for a premium receiver that retails for over $5,000 Canadian loonies! ...Over $3,600 USD!

Last edited by NorthSky; 12-30-2015 at 12:56 PM.
NorthSky is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Arcam , avr 550 , AVR-850 , b&w 600 series , bi-amo , bi-wiring

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off