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-   -   Arcam AVR-850 & Arcam AVR-550 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2194337-arcam-avr-850-arcam-avr-550-a.html)

wse 11-04-2015 03:54 PM

Arcam AVR-850 & Arcam AVR-550
 
Arcam unveils first Dolby Atmos receivers with Dirac Live at CEDIA Expo 2015

http://www.insideci.co.uk/ImageGen.a...50-front2.jpeg Arcam has unveiled its first Dolby Atmos AV receivers at CEDIA Expo 2015. The new AVR550 and AVR850 models feature seven HDMI 2.0a inputs with HDCP2.2, as well as high-end room correcting technology from Dirac Research. The pair feature three HDMI outs, two for dual display use and a third for multiroom. System control is offered through IR, RS232, IP and Arcam's own iOS MusicLife app. The duo also mark the return of the volume knob to Arcam’s AVR design.

Both receivers are 7.1 designs - the headline AVR850 offers Class G amplification. Arcam has told Inside CI that it is also working on a four channel power amp for those users looking to install a 7.1.4 Atmos configuration. The receivers are also DTS:X ready - and will be firmware upgradable as and when the software becomes available.

In the meantime, the focus is very much on Dolby Atmos “Dolby’s innovative approach to delivering sound that better connects viewers with the richness, detail and clarity of the on screen experience is something we are excited to deliver to our customers”, says Arcam CEO Charlie Brennan. “The ability to now deliver moving audio that fills the room with breathtaking detail and control is a ground-breaking achievement in the home theatre environment. In addition, Dirac Live for Arcam will provide users with world class precision room equalisation with amazingly transparent results.”
The AVR550 and AV850 will retail for £2,400 and £4,200 respectively, and will ship in November.


http://www.chromapure.co.uk/files/AV...5_C%281%29.pdf

Class G amplification

- http://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/a49/C...y_150714_A.pdf

- http://www.updatemydynaco.com/Histor...nts/ClassG.pdf

They also use class G amplification on this really neat speaker http://www.focal.com/usa/en/sm6/538-trio6-be.html

dlinsley 11-04-2015 09:07 PM

$3400 for the 550 and $6000 for the 850: http://www.twice.com/news/receivers/...-22-avrs/58886

NorthSky 11-04-2015 09:40 PM

The 850 oozes quality and streamline design (industrial modern simple classic hierarchy) all over. :cool: //// Hits the sweet spot...'G' class.

madhuski 11-05-2015 02:18 AM

Very intriguing to see Dirac finally in a receiver

NorthSky 11-05-2015 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madhuski (Post 38670937)
Very intriguing to see Dirac finally in a receiver

Other receiver's manufacturers are closely watching the deep interest that it is creating, and will follow the financial revenues that they can deduct from that. ...Adding up to their own financial gains for the real benefit of their customers. Smart customers will vote with their wallets where it counts, in the sound. ...For our movies and music @ home.

Smart move from Arcam.

bkeeler10 11-05-2015 11:49 AM

16 Attachment(s)
I for one am very interested in the 550. That piece and Anthem's MRX720 are in top running for me for my next receiver. The main things affecting my choice will be price and room correction technology. So I suppose the question I would need to answer is which RC is the better one? They're both highly regarded of course. And then, if Dirac seems to be better, is it really $900 better?

steady teddy 11-05-2015 12:10 PM

No news on a Preamp with Dirac?

mmiles 11-05-2015 02:28 PM

I don't think Arcam will offer a prepro. This is according to a frien that attended CEDIA and Arcam's private meetings.

Now Audio Control will have the MAESTRO M9 built on a similar OEM platform.

Probably late December 2015 or a tick later in January 2016.

mmiles 11-05-2015 02:29 PM

I don't think Arcam will offer a prepro. This is according to a frien that attended CEDIA and Arcam's private meetings.

Now Audio Control will have the MAESTRO M9 built on a similar OEM platform.

Probably late December 2015 or a tick later in January 2016.

NorthSky 11-05-2015 05:43 PM

This is Arcam's latest pre/pro...and according to Mike above; no immediate replacement: ♦ http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,FMJ,...sors,av950.htm

DS-21 11-05-2015 07:27 PM

Do the two both have full Dirac? Any other DSP limitations in the $3400 one vs the $6k one?


$2600 will buy a lot of fine separate amplifier!

mmiles 11-06-2015 02:24 PM

The other alternative, AC, is working with Dirac to expand the channels beyond 7.

Not sure if that will trickle down to the Arcam's.

It depends if it is the OEM or AC I suppose.

mmiles 11-06-2015 03:19 PM

The other alternative, AC, is working with Dirac to expand the channels beyond 7.

Not sure if that will trickle down to the Arcam's.

It depends if it is the OEM or AC I suppose.

wse 11-07-2015 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmiles (Post 38719321)
The other alternative, AC, is working with Dirac to expand the channels beyond 7.

Not sure if that will trickle down to the Arcam's.

It depends if it is the OEM or AC I suppose.

Who is AC?

dlinsley 11-07-2015 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wse (Post 38738433)
Who is AC?

Audio Control Atmos announcement

bkeeler10 11-07-2015 08:51 PM

16 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by mmiles (Post 38720641)
The other alternative, AC, is working with Dirac to expand the channels beyond 7.

Not sure if that will trickle down to the Arcam's.

It depends if it is the OEM or AC I suppose.

Are you saying that the Arcam units will not have Dirac on all channels, and only the Audio Control units will?

NorthSky 11-08-2015 03:54 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Those two new Arcam receivers are 7.1-channel receivers (5.1.2 Dolby Atmos/DTS:X) with Dirac Live (7.1).
? channels EQued by Dirac Live...in the AVR850 and in the AVR550?

http://audioxpress.com/article/Arcam...IRAC-Live.html

If you want a 7.1.2 (or 5.1.4) Atmos/DTS:X setup equalized with Dirac Live you need another stereo amp, and more Dirac Live?
________

This is the Arcam SR250 stereo receiver with Dirac Live.

Attachment 1046513
________

And if you want a 9.1.2 (or 7.1.4) Atmos/DTS:X setup all equalized with Dirac Live you need two additional stereo amps (Arcam is also working on a
4-channel amp), and more Dirac Live?

So, it's going to be quite expensive to have a full Dolby Atmos/DTS:X 7.1.4 Arcam setup with all twelve channels equalized by Dirac Live.
That is unless more than eight channels are EQued with Dirac Live, for people who want that full 7.1.4 Atmos setup. You would think so though.


P.S. My opinion, based on my own deduction from various readings over @ other forums from the UK.
Arcam @ this point in time is letting us all speculate because their press release is missing vital info (about Dirac Live; how many channels).

DS-21 11-08-2015 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthSky (Post 38765521)
Those two new Arcam receivers are 5.1.2 Dolby Atmos/DTS:X receivers with Dirac Live (7.1).
They are 7.1-channel receivers with 8 channels EQued by Dirac Live...the AVR850 and AVR550.

http://audioxpress.com/article/Arcam...IRAC-Live.html

If you want a 7.1.2 (or 5.1.4) Atmos/DTS:X setup equalized with Dirac Live you need another Arcam receiver, the SR250 stereo receiver, with Dirac Live for two channels.

Can you cite where the article you posted says any of that? Direct quotations, please.

NorthSky 11-08-2015 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DS-21 (Post 38766641)
Can you cite where the article you posted says any of that? Direct quotations, please.

Correction made. ...For 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 additional amp(s) are required, and that SR250 stereo receiver with Dirac Live can't do (no Main Ins).

https://www.avforums.com/threads/arc...-live.1985785/

NorthSky 11-08-2015 06:32 PM

2 Attachment(s)
AVR850 back:
Attachment 1046649
______

AVR550 back:
Attachment 1046657

wse 11-08-2015 06:57 PM

ARCAM will cover 7.1.4 with DIRAC

NorthSky 11-08-2015 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wse (Post 38769281)
ARCAM will cover 7.1.4 with DIRAC

I looked everywhere; in the UK, on the back panel (made in Vietnam), gave a link to AVForums in the UK, checked all Arcam news, videos, ...
and couldn't find confirmation of what you just said. If it does Bravo. That's a very good augur for the future, for other receiver's manufacturers, pre/pros.

carp 11-08-2015 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wse (Post 38769281)
ARCAM will cover 7.1.4 with DIRAC

It has everything I want... except DTS X, which is obviously not Arcam's fault.

NorthSky 11-08-2015 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 38770201)
It has everything I want... except DTS X, which is obviously not Arcam's fault.

It is DTS:X Ready though; through a firmware upgrade. ...Sometimes next year, just like all the other manufacturers; no one has DTS:X yet.

"The receivers are also DTS:X ready - and will be firmware upgradable as and when the software becomes available."

NorthSky 11-09-2015 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wse (Post 38769281)
ARCAM will cover 7.1.4 with DIRAC

It doesn't appear so:

https://www.avforums.com/threads/arc...-live.1985785/ => Page 3, post 84

Right here: https://www.avforums.com/threads/arc...#post-22780154

carp 11-09-2015 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthSky (Post 38770785)
It is DTS:X Ready though; through a firmware upgrade. ...Sometimes next year, just like all the other manufacturers; no one has DTS:X yet.

"The receivers are also DTS:X ready - and will be firmware upgradable as and when the software becomes available."


Thanks, I didn't see that but it would make me nervous to buy an AVR that doesn't have it built in. Looks like 2016 will be a better year to buy.

bkeeler10 11-09-2015 11:05 AM

16 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 38781697)
Thanks, I didn't see that but it would make me nervous to buy an AVR that doesn't have it built in. Looks like 2016 will be a better year to buy.

If it's any consolation, the hold up is not with Arcam but with DTS as I understand it. Every manufacturer that is offering their 2015-2016 models with DTS:X (and there are many) is in the same boat - that is, their models are DTS:X ready, pending a future firmware update to enable it once DTS:X is finalized.

darrellh44 11-09-2015 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthSky (Post 38772793)

If the AVR-550 doesn't support full DL on all 7.1.4, it sounds like the Audiocontrol AVR-7 sister product does. Here's a report from sdrucker during CEDIA on the Audiocontrol AVR-7 and AVR-9.

I stopped at the CEDIA AudioControl booth this AM, and was able to get most of our questions answered by either their sales rep or their engineer, Brandon.

First, the version of Dirac in the AVR-7/9 is the full version, supporting user defined target curves, frequency range curtains, and user-specified speaker groups. All 11 channels in a 7.1.4 system can be EQ'd. There's only one preset, so the user will need to save/load EQ files through the PC/Mac interface, which like other Dirac implementations of late, will communicate with a remote server as part of the calibration process.

As to the differences in the AVRs, AVR-7 is Class AB, and rated at both 100 W/channel for both 4 and 8 ohm, directly from the engineer. AVR-9 is Class H high current and will do 200 W @ 4 ohms and closer to 220 in 8 (they claim all channels driven). IOW the website is essentially right from their POV, if confusing. Which may be strange, unless they are steering 4 ohm speaker owners to the 9 by design IMO.

Re assignable amps-they confirmed that only two of the seven amp/speaker connectors can be changed, specifically between Zone 2, surround back, and Height 1. L/R mains are fixed and can't be reassigned, meaning that if you use a two channel external amp for L/R mains, those amp channels are 'empty'. In practice, they expect most CI customers to buy a four channel amp for heights, be running 7.1, or using one or more separate external amps for mains from their line, with the available amp channels more as a convenience feature.​

I still need to find out whether they have (or are even aware) of the cross pollenation issues with upmixers when I cycle back, as well as how they handle EQ for Dolby speakers (or just assume customers will do ceiling speakers). But ampage aside, unless you specifically want full Dirac for up to 7.1.4, as AVRs go, I don't think this product is competitive except for the novelty of Class H amps in the AVR-9, if that's your thing. For the Dirac crowd, possibly if you already have amps and/or are fussy about needing two 88As vs. an AIO solution.

One other tidbit from a local Arcam dealer. He said he can get either the AVR-550 or the AVR-7, but the AVR-7 will be 300 USD more than the Arcam version. Maybe this accounts for the 4 extra channels of Dirac in the Audiocontrol. I guess the good news is if both share the same processor platform, it should be possible to upgrade the Arcam to have Dirac for all 7.1.4 channels.

NorthSky 11-09-2015 12:24 PM

Thanks Darrell for posting ^ this info here, and like you it is also my understanding, from the readings:

1. Arcam AVR850 : "Full" Dirac Live version, and for twelve channels (7.1.4) of Dolby Atmos and DTS:X immersive audio.
2. Arcam AVR550 : "Lite" Dirac Live version, and for eight channels (5.1.2) of Dolby Atmos and DTS:X immersive audio.

This: Unofficial @ this time.

My personal opinion: This is all very good; Dirac Live with Emotiva, with Audio Control, with Arcam, and with other hi-end companies.
It's a start in the right direction, and with time it's going to improve (Dirac Live's implementation and operation), plus it's going to spread over into more receiver's and pre/pro's manufacturers, and becoming available in them less expensive receivers and pre/pros too.

Then, from eight (5.1.2) to twelve (7.1.4) channels of room EQ, and then fourteen (9.1.4), and finally sixteen (9.1.6)...for two rows of seats. ...Plus all the variables between depending of our own room's dimension and accommodation.

Dirac Live is for us what Trinnov and Datasat and JBL Synthesis and Steinway Lyngdorf and Auromax and Barco are to others.

Audyssey, ARC, YPAO, MCACC and AccuEQ and Sony's own room EQ system are superseded by superior EQ systems in the year 2015 and beyond...IMHO.
...Or unless they implement the improvements missing in their automatic EQ systems. ...With more DSP processing power from bigger or more chips.
And if not, a way to advance in combination with our laptops (more processing power in those).

...Just my opinion on the current state of affairs...Room EQ systems in our pre/pros and AV receivers today and tomorrow...with 3D sound immersion and UHD Blu-ray. ...OLED 4K 3D UHD TVs (both curved and flat, and super thin), and 4K/HDR front projectors with 48fps support.

The future looks so bright that I have to wear shades. :cool: ...No wonder I resemble my avatar. ;)

Nyal Mellor 11-09-2015 05:37 PM

Personally I am VERY excited to see Dirac Live in more AVRs and Pre-Pros. It really works! I will be getting either AC or Arcam units in for evaluation and testing once they are shipping and will be sure to blog about it!


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