Emotiva Updates XPA Amplifiers to Generation 3 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Hmmm... Seems like they should have kept the current XPA line and made these something between the XPA and XPR? I have a bad feeling they are going to lose market going in this direction. Also interesting they appear to be dropping pure class AB in favor of H; probably allows them to standardize amps in a form factor that lets them integrate a seven-channel version with less heat and standing bias current to save power.

Same power supply in a two-channel vs. seven-channel amp is going to raise the ire of some audiophiles questioning its ability to deliver full power to all the channels all the time (whether or not anything like that is needed in practice).

Overall seems like a step backwards to me at first glance...
Yes - to me too. Emotiva often seems to be pretty directionless though, introducing new product lines and letting others disappear almost at random. When they were at the mercy of Tonewinner I guess they didn't have much control. Now they have started to manufacture in the USA it gives them more control but also pushes up their prices, robbing them of their big USP (high performance at low cost = fantastic value). If they are trying to move upmarket, then it could be a very bad move for them.
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post #32 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I too have an XPA - 200. Used to drive my main Martin Logan Motion 40's with my Denon 4520, for an 11 channel system, it works great. Could not be happier. More power than I know what to do with !
XPA-200 - very nice amp at a great price. Nothing in their revised range that comes near it for price vs performance.
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post #33 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
There's more going on at Emotiva than what's contained in this group on announcements. Just got off the phone with Dan Laufman, lots of off-the-record details I cannot share, but what I can say is this is just the beginning.
Unfortunately, Laufman has a less than stellar reputation for imparting reliable information. I hope all the no doubt good news he gave you comes to pass. They seemed to have learned one lesson from their past disastrous launches: keep quiet until you have product to sell.
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post #34 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
I went to the Emotiva site and there is no information whatsoever about any of this on their site. That is a head scratcher. Why would a company break big news like this with no supporting info and data on their own gate to the public is quite strange.
Uh-oh. I hope they are not up to their old games of announcing product months (years in some cases, and even never) before they are available. I’d have thought they learned that lesson for their XMC-1 launch. "It's coming soon... it's almost here.... we have shipped ..... we haven't actually shipped.... it's coming real soon...." etc.

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I'm also wondering why AVS is carrying Emotiva's water, so to speak, by spreading the word for them on these threads started by an AVS "writer" by the name of imagic. This whole approach is odd and appears to be some kind of business relationship.
Yes, I thought that was odd too. Why reveal inside information to a writer on a forum? (No disrespect to Imagic there). Emo have their own forum.
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post #35 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
I went to the Emotiva site and there is no information whatsoever about any of this on their site. That is a head scratcher. Why would a company break big news like this with no supporting info and data on their own gate to the public is quite strange.

I'm also wondering why AVS is carrying Emotiva's water, so to speak, by spreading the word for them on these threads started by an AVS "writer" by the name of imagic. This whole approach is odd and appears to be some kind of business relationship.
You are very welcome for pointing ot the fact I was on top of this story! These are press releases, I have not even had time to write them up as regular posts yet! I'm sure I'm not the only writer who received the embargoed press releases mere hours before the embargo expired.

And yes, Emotiva is an advertiser on AVS. That's not going to stop me from covering its news or reviewing its products, but I understand a few people are going to consider it clever to point that out—par for the course.

By the way, I'm Mark Henninger and I'm the senior writer at AVS. This is my full-time job. I've been a member of AVS for a decade and Imagic is my handle.

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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Emotiva has a habit of announcing using press releases, in their Lounge or at shows and the website catches up later.

So far it reads like they dropped the XPR line, updated and raised the price of the XPA line, and brought in a less-expensive class D line as a step between their entry and top (now XPA) lines. All speculative at this point, hope the whole story comes out soon!

I think it's great we have people like Mark who can get the inside scoop, and it is certainly a plus for AVS to be breaking the news. Maybe other manufacturers will follow suit...
You are welcome, I appreciate the support. I can't speak to Emotiva's timely delivery but hopefully building stuff in the USA will have an impact on the accuracy of estimates as to when stuff ships.

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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Uh-oh. I hope they are not up to their old games of announcing product months (years in some cases, and even never) before they are available. I’d have thought they learned that lesson for their XMC-1 launch. "It's coming soon... it's almost here.... we have shipped ..... we haven't actually shipped.... it's coming real soon...." etc.

Yes, I thought that was odd too. Why reveal inside information to a writer on a forum? (No disrespect to Imagic there). Emo have their own forum.
It was a press release and the embargo ended at noon yesterday, which is when I posted it. Not my problem if other AV writers are playing catchup.

I will admit to having little patience with petty conspiracy theories that pop up on forums. It's a waste of people's time.

Basically, the company (Emotiva) is expanding its lineup, this was a major announcement in anticipation of CES—worth covering. I try to get news as soon as possible, and when I can, I also try to talk to the founder, CEO, or lead designer from a company I cover. In other words, just doing my job.

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post #36 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
It was a press release and the embargo ended at noon yesterday, which is when I posted it. Not my problem if other AV writers are playing catchup.

I will admit to having little patience with petty conspiracy theories that pop up on forums. It's a waste of people's time.

Basically, the company (Emotiva) is expanding its lineup, this was a major announcement in anticipation of CES—worth covering. I try to get news as soon as possible, and when I can, I also try to talk to the founder, CEO, or lead designer from a company I cover. In other words, just doing my job.
I didn’t mean to come across as though I was criticising you in any way Mark. I value your contributions here as I am sure do many people. From reading your earlier post, it sounded as if the information had come straight from your chat with Dan Laufman. As you will know, he has not been the most reliable source of information in the past, especially wrt to the disastrous misinformation/disinformation surrounding the XMC-1's overly long gestation period.

HST, the information you posted is very useful - my only issue with it is that Emo seem to have forgotten how they got to where they are, which is by offering high quality amps at very low prices, by comparison with the rest of the market. With the dropping of the very popular XPA Gen 2 series for a totally different, and much more expensive, product concept, they may have shot themselves in the foot. That was my main point, and it is a purely personal one. I own 5 Emo amps and have had them for years and am very happy with them, so it's not like I have an axe to grind with Emotiva here.

It seems from the comments so far that others too are disappointed at the move to more upscale products with perceived or possibly real benefits but with a considerably higher price. But companies move on and we have to accept that. I just think it's a shame they seem to have forgotten their roots - it's a little like MacDonalds suddenly dropping the quarter pounder in favor of filet mignon. The filet might be (is) a better product, but if the customers can't or won't pay that much for it, then it's ultimately a bad move. A better solution IMO would have been to continue the XPA line as it is and badge the new amps as UltraXPA or somesuch name and run the two lines alongside each other. But it's up to them of course.

I look forward to further news from you about the upcoming products you hinted at.
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post #37 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I didn’t mean to come across as though I was criticising you in any way Mark. I value your contributions here as I am sure do many people. From reading your earlier post, it sounded as if the information had come straight from your chat with Dan Laufman. As you will know, he has not been the most reliable source of information in the past, especially wrt to the disastrous misinformation/disinformation surrounding the XMC-1's overly long gestation period.

HST, the information you posted is very useful - my only issue with it is that Emo seem to have forgotten how they got to where they are, which is by offering high quality amps at very low prices, by comparison with the rest of the market. With the dropping of the very popular XPA Gen 2 series for a totally different, and much more expensive, product concept, they may have shot themselves in the foot. That was my main point, and it is a purely personal one. I own 5 Emo amps and have had them for years and am very happy with them, so it's not like I have an axe to grind with Emotiva here.

It seems from the comments so far that others too are disappointed at the move to more upscale products with perceived or possibly real benefits but with a considerably higher price.
But companies move on and we have to accept that. I just think it's a shame they seem to have forgotten their roots - it's a little like MacDonalds suddenly dropping the quarter pounder in favor of filet mignon. The filet might be (is) a better product, but if the customers can't or won't pay that much for it, then it's ultimately a bad move. A better solution IMO would have been to continue the XPA line as it is and badge the new amps as UltraXPA or somesuch name and run the two lines alongside each other. But it's up to them of course.

I look forward to further news from you about the upcoming products you hinted at.
I think you'll find that there's an answer to your concerns, but it's not part of this news cycle, so I cannot discuss it. Everything I posted is from an official press release. I'm sure the other stuff Dan told me personally and off the record is under wraps for the very reasons you mentioned regarding timing.

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post #38 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 07:45 AM
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No good deed goes unpunished... Perhaps the conspiracy advocates should read your bazillion other posts and reviews before making their judgement upon thee...
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post #39 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I think you'll find that there's an answer to your concerns, but it's not part of this news cycle, so I cannot discuss it. Everything I posted is from an official press release. I'm sure the other stuff Dan told me personally and off the record is under wraps for the very reasons you mentioned regarding timing.
OK thanks, Mark. Looking forward to news as it breaks.
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post #40 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 08:03 AM
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They absolutely are built in the US.
Good for Emo!

The pricing looks similar to Outlaw's 200-watt-per-channel-ATI-built amps. I'm looking forward to seeing specs and reading reviews on another US built amp.
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post #41 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 09:31 AM
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Honestly, I don't think those list prices, and they ARE list prices, are too far off from the original list prices for the XPA Gen 2 line. I remember the XPA-7 debuted at $1799 and dropped to $1599 before the current 20% Holiday sale. I think the prices are reasonable considering the modest bump in per-channel amplification, modular design, XPR topology, and Made in USA. I'd buy a Gen 3 if I didn't already have an XPR-5 and XPA-7 in the rack. Only thing missing is a deep-chassis 9-channel amp.
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post #42 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 09:40 AM
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Personally, I'm going to wait for the XPA-32. (AKA - the gonad buster)

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post #43 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 09:40 AM
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I agree with the above poster 100% These are really great prices considering made in usa xpr technology.

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post #44 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 09:46 AM
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I'm using an XPA 200 for Front Left and Right and an XPA-100 for the Center because it has the Bi-amp capability and I'm driving two speakers over and under the screen for the Center. Bought an XPA-5 on the current sale for the 4 ear-level surrounds. Just bought four of the mini X-A100's for six overheads and front wides on the current sale. The mini's are relatively small and easy to stack in the narrow space I have available close to the pre-pro. So, everything is Class A/B and there are a LOT of dedicated power supplies. I'm feeling very clever, given the new product announcements. Waiting for the next generation pre-pro to have 9.1.6 capability. With the advent of the new USB-sized processor from Intel, I have hope that Emo's next-generation pre-pro will be able to do 14 discrete signals. If they can do 15 (center rear?, VOG?, Front Center?), I have a spare amp in the XPA-5. For the time being, I purchased the Denon X3200W at the half-off Fry's sale just so I could have "something" while waiting. Anthem's new Pre-pro is announced and it doesn't go beyond 11 discrete signals. If EMO's upcoming pre-pro doesn't take that step, I'm pretty sure that the next generation of D/M in 2017 will. In the meanwhile, I've got all the overheads slaved together to the Top Middle, the Rear surrounds slaved to the Side surrounds and the Front Wides slaved to the Front Left and Right. I'm the King of Y connectors. LOL.

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post #45 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 09:49 AM
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I'd like to see chassis measurements and pictures; hopefully they're on the way soon! (I saw the Emersa line, looks very similar to their Stealth electronics)

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post #46 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 10:09 AM
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Looks like the current gen 2 but with a tag showing the number of channels.


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post #47 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post
Looks like the current gen 2 but with a tag showing the number of channels.
Holy cannoli, they're still gigantic.

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post #48 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 10:29 AM
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the one thing i dislike about my XPR models is the clicking sound you hear every once in a while. I've read its normal, but hopefully these models addressed that?

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post #49 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post
Honestly, I don't think those list prices, and they ARE list prices, are too far off from the original list prices for the XPA Gen 2 line. I remember the XPA-7 debuted at $1799 and dropped to $1599 before the current 20% Holiday sale. I think the prices are reasonable considering the modest bump in per-channel amplification, modular design, XPR topology, and Made in USA. I'd buy a Gen 3 if I didn't already have an XPR-5 and XPA-7 in the rack. Only thing missing is a deep-chassis 9-channel amp.
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I agree with the above poster 100% These are really great prices considering made in usa xpr technology.
Yup, agreed.

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post #50 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 11:16 AM
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Or the price increases have something to do with Emo being available via dealers soon? Have to maintain those margins. Thanks for the info Mark, competition is good, but it will be interesting to see who comes out with an immersive pre first - Emo or Outlaw.

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post #51 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 01:39 PM
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Looks like the current gen 2 but with a tag showing the number of channels.

I can only imagine the amount of free space inside the 2 channel version if you are able to add 5 more amps.

I would rather have

not a half empty amp. THIS BUT 1 LESS AMP
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post #52 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 02:04 PM
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the one thing i dislike about my XPR models is the clicking sound you hear every once in a while. I've read its normal, but hopefully these models addressed that?
Hmm, I've never noticed that, with either my R's or A's, maybe just haven't paid enough attention. All I know for sure is that I sure am glad I bought my R's before they were gone, love those things.
Glad to see more even numbers also, hated the thought of buying a 5, just to get 4...lol

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post #53 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
Hmm, I've never noticed that, with either my R's or A's, maybe just haven't paid enough attention. All I know for sure is that I sure am glad I bought my R's before they were gone, love those things.
Glad to see more even numbers also, hated the thought of buying a 5, just to get 4...lol
I originally thought it was a problem, but apparently not: http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/t...clicking-noise

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post #54 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 05:17 PM
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I assume they will move to a card based approach similar to ATI, where each card is an amp channel with its own caps, etc.
ATI uses two transformers with seperate windings for each amp.

This allows one chasis with card slots. The transformers and the rear plates are specific to each configuration.

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post #55 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 06:46 PM
 
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Okay, I'm disappointed that the outside design is the same 8 year old box. But if the sound is better, it'll be all good. The hard part will be finding reliable owner reviewers as apposed to fanboy shrieking.

Any word on D day?
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post #56 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 06:47 PM
 
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Not sure why this forum still produces so many double posts, or are only Mac users suffering through this?
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post #57 of 961 Old 12-09-2015, 08:54 PM
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Need to know more specs... Specifically SNR is a big one for me... If they do >120db SNR unweighted like ATI, they will be a serious value.. IMO
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post #58 of 961 Old 12-10-2015, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
One could always buy a 5 channel and a 4 or 6 channel pair of amps. Or a 7 and 2+ channel. If space is so tight that you can't fit 2 amps in your rig, then you'd probably have heat issues as well, and it's time to upgrade the rack. For the record, my above post notwithstanding, I'm a fan of this third gen release. It sounds like Emotiva is doing a serious upgrade to the line and I have hopes that the SQ will benefit. I had an XPA 3 amp and found the XPA limitations disappointing, I lamented on their forum years ago that they should be upgrading the XPA line and charging significantly more, though most disagreed with me!

The new pricing is a tell tale sign that they may be built in the US. Time will tell. Hopefully miscues that have to be retired, such as the UPA and XPR lines, will be a thing of the past. Good market research will prevent this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
Okay, I'm disappointed that the outside design is the same 8 year old box. But if the sound is better, it'll be all good. The hard part will be finding reliable owner reviewers as apposed to fanboy shrieking.

Any word on D day?
Mate, please don't fall for the PR nonsense and you won't be disappointed either way:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emotiva's press release

XPA Gen 3 Amplifiers
.
The XPA Gen 3 is a significant step above the Gen 2 line. Using Emotiva’s lauded XPR amplifier topology for superior sonics, and designed with highly flexible modularity, the XPA Gen 3 accommodates 1 to 7 channels, multiple power levels, and is ideal for applications from from reference stereo to surround sound.
.


Flowery descriptors of the so-called sound of the amp from reviewers based on their "listening sessions" are completely useless too.

Remove the confounding effects of various sighted biases from the equation, and they'll be utterly indistinguishable from any other well engineered SS amp operating as intended, Emotiva or otherwise. They shouldn't sound like anything at all, and something like this (for example) doesn't:



There's a great deal to like about Emotiva's range of power amps - past, present and pending - but their sound isn't one of them. Their complete lack of it is.

Cheers!
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post #59 of 961 Old 12-10-2015, 02:27 AM
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It seems too premature to jump to any kind of conclusions, so I am going to sit on the fence and enjoy the show. Thankfully, I have many Emotiva/Sherbourn amps/pre amps and pre pros --actually many more than I need for my 3 HT/2 channel systems -- so I do not feel any urgent need to buy anything from them yet, and haven't as yet seen anything in the new lineups that is tempting my wallet... So it is all good. I remain a loyal Emotiva admirer and customer, but for next few years, I suspect I am mostly going to sit on the sidelines and observing... unless of course...., yeah unless...
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post #60 of 961 Old 12-10-2015, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
Flowery descriptors of the so-called sound of the amp from reviewers based on their "listening sessions" are completely useless too.

Remove the confounding effects of various sighted biases from the equation, and they'll be utterly indistinguishable from any other well engineered SS amp operating as intended, Emotiva or otherwise. They shouldn't sound like anything at all, and something like this (for example) doesn't:

There's a great deal to like about Emotiva's range of power amps - past, present and pending - but their sound isn't one of them. Their complete lack of it is.
Amen to all that!
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