Emotiva Updates XPA Amplifiers to Generation 3 - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 961 Old 12-11-2015, 12:43 PM
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Where is the current line of xpr amps made?

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post #122 of 961 Old 12-11-2015, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Beats mine, I paid $529 for my XPA-3 back in November 2010. Still a good price though IMO. That amp has been in daily use now for 5 years and has never missed a beat.

Agreed about Crown XLS - I am a big fan and own one of them. Also never missed a beat. Fugly though, for those who care about these things.
I'm getting ready to buy a gen1 xpa3 and was wondering if yours was a gen1 , and if so , is it noisy???
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post #123 of 961 Old 12-11-2015, 01:17 PM
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I have several Gen 1 XPA's in different systems, all quiet for me. I think your fears are related to the slightly higher gain of the Gen 1 amps that make them hiss a bit more with very high-sensitivity speakers. That is an issue with many amps, especially high-powered amps since they require more gain to achieve full output with reasonable input levels. If you sit close to 100+ dB/W/m speakers it may be an issue; for the vast majority of us it is not.

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post #124 of 961 Old 12-11-2015, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I owned one for a number of years and it was dead silent.
Any issues I should look out for??? Were your speakers really efficient ?? Mine are 90 db @4ohm . I just read that really efficient speakers would hiss from the gain on the gen 1
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post #125 of 961 Old 12-11-2015, 01:20 PM
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90 dB/W/m is not "really efficient". If you are not sitting very close you should be fine.

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post #126 of 961 Old 12-11-2015, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
I went to the Emotiva site and there is no information whatsoever about any of this on their site. That is a head scratcher. Why would a company break big news like this with no supporting info and data on their own gate to the public is quite strange.

I'm also wondering why AVS is carrying Emotiva's water, so to speak, by spreading the word for them on these threads started by an AVS "writer" by the name of imagic. This whole approach is odd and appears to be some kind of business relationship.
They seem to be doing the same thing with Yamaha. I don't mind being advertised to, as long as it is LABELLED as advertisement. This feels deceitful and shady.
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post #127 of 961 Old 12-11-2015, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by WebEffect View Post
They seem to be doing the same thing with Yamaha. I don't mind being advertised to, as long as it is LABELLED as advertisement. This feels deceitful and shady.
But I don't see any Yamaha stuff on the home page.

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post #128 of 961 Old 12-11-2015, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I have several Gen 1 XPA's in different systems, all quiet for me. I think your fears are related to the slightly higher gain of the Gen 1 amps that make them hiss a bit more with very high-sensitivity speakers. That is an issue with many amps, especially high-powered amps since they require more gain to achieve full output with reasonable input levels. If you sit close to 100+ dB/W/m speakers it may be an issue; for the vast majority of us it is not.

IMO - Don
You read me like a book haha . I am one of those guys that over analyzes everything . In my head I keep trying to tell my self that I need to get the latest and greatest , and that the gen 2 will be better , but I'm getting the xpa3 for a steal
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post #129 of 961 Old 12-11-2015, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by nesto719 View Post
I'm getting ready to buy a gen1 xpa3 and was wondering if yours was a gen1 , and if so , is it noisy???
No. It is totally silent even with my ear pressed against the speaker grille cloth. My speakers are only about 87-88dB sensitivity though. Those who report hiss generally have high sensitivity speakers, which will doubtless hiss with more or less any amp. The XPA-3 Gen 1 isn’t inherently noisy.
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post #130 of 961 Old 12-11-2015, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dubusduck View Post
Where is the current line of xpr amps made?
There isn't a " current " line of XPR amps but the ones that are currently on clearance were made in China. Emo designed them but had them built in China. all they are doing with the Gen 3 XPA amps is applying some of that design and building them in the USA, with, I assume, are STILL Chinese parts. No way around that as the USA has pretty much given up the electronics industry to China.

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post #131 of 961 Old 12-12-2015, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I would take that bet. They don't get hot, and if the fan does come on it in inaudible even with your ear next to the amp. I think you might be confusing iNuke amps with Crown. Crown amps are silent and are intended to be used in commercial cinemas and music venues. They are made to be used 12+ hours a day. I prefer the XLS 1500 over the 1000 for the better SNR.
They only make them in 2 channel versions,right? If so, one would require a stack of them to power my 11 unpowered channels, this is just not viable in my setup. Also,how much power would such a stack require?

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post #132 of 961 Old 12-12-2015, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
IMO, each of those announcements was newsworthy. Had some other AV product manufacturer sent me press releases—on that same day—about a new line of speakers/processors/amps, then that news would have made the homepage as well.

It's Emotiva's prerogative to buy ad space when and where it wishes to do so, which the company clearly did in support of its CES-related new product announcements.
We can agree to disagree on the amount of attention given, just like the demise of physical media Well at least one benefit of all of this was to remind me to renew my membership, for that my second thank you Mark. You forget how annoying the ads can be until they are gone and more importantly the need to support AVS and their team writers.

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post #133 of 961 Old 12-12-2015, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Tsunamijhoe View Post
They only make them in 2 channel versions,right? If so, one would require a stack of them to power my 11 unpowered channels, this is just not viable in my setup. Also,how much power would such a stack require?
Yes, the XLS series is 2ch only so you'd need 6 of them to power 11 channels. Of course, some may not have the space for that, but for those who do they really are a viable alternative. When I was running my own XLS amp pretty hard, I never once heard the fan come on. Remember these are Pro amps designed for a hard life, running close to flat out for hours on end, so they have fans to cater for that. In a domestic environment they really don't work very hard so the fans rarely, if ever, cut in, as others have testified to.

The stack of amps would require the same power as any other amp/s working to the same level.

I'm not trying to persuade you to switch to XLS amps BTW! Your amp choice is for you alone - just offering a POV and pointing out that XLS amps really are outstanding value for money on a $ per watt basis. And they are small and light too which can also be an advantage in some setups.
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post #134 of 961 Old 12-12-2015, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Yes, the XLS series is 2ch only so you'd need 6 of them to power 11 channels. Of course, some may not have the space for that, but for those who do they really are a viable alternative. When I was running my own XLS amp pretty hard, I never once heard the fan come on. Remember these are Pro amps designed for a hard life, running close to flat out for hours on end, so they have fans to cater for that. In a domestic environment they really don't work very hard so the fans rarely, if ever, cut in, as others have testified to.

The stack of amps would require the same power as any other amp/s working to the same level.

I'm not trying to persuade you to switch to XLS amps BTW! Your amp choice is for you alone - just offering a POV and pointing out that XLS amps really are outstanding value for money on a $ per watt basis. And they are small and light too which can also be an advantage in some setups.
Hehe, you couldnt persuade me if you tried, i am my own man ;-).. That said, i did test 3 different class D amps from the pro segment out before i settled on Emotiva and the "classic" amp build, as the ones i had home to test was horribly loud. Granted,none of them were Crown,but with 3 different brands all had extremely loud fans..So i just gave up testing anymore and moved to fanless design instead.
Emotiva feels like really good build quality,and since power amps dont have moving parts, theoretically it should last forever, but ofcourse nothing does,and if i am ever in need of new amps good class d will be the first choise because these behemoths are too heavy to move around if you need to.
I dont care what they look like,but i do care about LED's you cant turn off,or loud fans etc. Like SVS PB-2000 why oh why did they put an extremely bright blue led in the front of the subwoofer,it is VERY annoying and one have to put black electric tape over it to not get distracted when watching movies.

Isn't the crown and other class d amps much more efficient,and thus require LESS power to output same as conventional amps?

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post #135 of 961 Old 12-12-2015, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Tsunamijhoe View Post
Hehe, you couldnt persuade me if you tried, i am my own man ;-).. That said, i did test 3 different class D amps from the pro segment out before i settled on Emotiva and the "classic" amp build, as the ones i had home to test was horribly loud. Granted,none of them were Crown,but with 3 different brands all had extremely loud fans..So i just gave up testing anymore and moved to fanless design instead.
Emotiva feels like really good build quality,and since power amps dont have moving parts, theoretically it should last forever, but ofcourse nothing does,and if i am ever in need of new amps good class d will be the first choise because these behemoths are too heavy to move around if you need to.
I suspect the Emp capacitors will be the first thing to go. But even if they do, any half-competent electrical shop can replace them (and with superior quality too) so it shouldn’t be much of an issue. I have an amp in my music system that's 25 years old and still going strong - and it has hardly ever been switched off in all that time).

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I dont care what they look like,but i do care about LED's you cant turn off,or loud fans etc. Like SVS PB-2000 why oh why did they put an extremely bright blue led in the front of the subwoofer,it is VERY annoying and one have to put black electric tape over it to not get distracted when watching movies.
Yes, non-defeatable LEDS are crazy. If my gear was in the HT room I'd be covering mine with tape too!

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Originally Posted by Tsunamijhoe View Post
Isn't the crown and other class d amps much more efficient,and thus require LESS power to output same as conventional amps?
That's a good point - I was ignoring the fact they are Class D. The reason they don't get hot is that they are turning the electricity into sound, not heat, of course.
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post #136 of 961 Old 12-12-2015, 08:24 AM
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The Crown XLS led's are ridiculously bright. That and no 12v remote trigger are my only complaints with them. Emo makes a fine amp. I never had any issues with the one I owned, and I definitely wouldn't replace a functioning amp just "because". I don't subscribe to amps coloring sound. Source material, speakers and room acoustics play the biggest part in sound. Often times an amp may be louder at a specific volume level (prior to EQ/calibration) and people attribute that to the amp sounding "better". Maybe my ears are bad (possible I am 45), but the amp voodoo has never been experienced in my home with multiple amp vendors over the years. If an amp is working without issue, run it until it stops is my philosophy.
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post #137 of 961 Old 12-12-2015, 08:38 AM
 
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I'm offended that you're offended about AVS writing some information that at least 138 posters found informative. Like usual AVS is the best site on the web to get your a/v fix. How is announcing a product deceitful or shady? The fact that you feel that your "safe space" was violated by reading an EMOTIVA article speaks volumes about the world we live in today? Nobody forced you to log on your computer or read the article. Maybe you should go talk to Al Gore about the fact your offended every time you open your computer... after all he created the Internet.


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They seem to be doing the same thing with Yamaha. I don't mind being advertised to, as long as it is LABELLED as advertisement. This feels deceitful and shady.
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post #138 of 961 Old 12-12-2015, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post
There isn't a " current " line of XPR amps but the ones that are currently on clearance were made in China. Emo designed them but had them built in China. all they are doing with the Gen 3 XPA amps is applying some of that design and building them in the USA, with, I assume, are STILL Chinese parts. No way around that as the USA has pretty much given up the electronics industry to China.
I am not sure what "level" of "American Made" you are looking for, but I don't have any problem labeling ATI an "American Manufacturer" of electronics.

http://www.ati-amp.com/about.php

Or Speaker Power:

http://www.speakerpower.net/about-us.html

Or Mark Seaton:

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/po...ersive-7350038


Maybe Emotiva will follow suit.

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post #139 of 961 Old 12-12-2015, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WebEffect View Post
They seem to be doing the same thing with Yamaha. I don't mind being advertised to, as long as it is LABELLED as advertisement. This feels deceitful and shady.
I do create posts that pertain to press releases, but that's not the same thing as an ad.

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But I don't see any Yamaha stuff on the home page.
Correct. Yamaha's most recent announcements were the YSP-5600 and the implementation of MusicCast. I have not seen any Yamaha ads, either.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WebEffect View Post
They seem to be doing the same thing with Yamaha. I don't mind being advertised to, as long as it is LABELLED as advertisement. This feels deceitful and shady.
I'm offended that you're offended about AVS writing some information that at least 138 posters found informative. Like usual AVS is the best site on the web to get your a/v fix. How is announcing a product deceitful or shady? The fact that you feel that your "safe space" was violated by reading an EMOTIVA article speaks volumes about the world we live in today? Nobody forced you to log on your computer or read the article. Maybe you should go talk to Al Gore about the fact your offended every time you open your computer... after all he created the Internet.
Lol

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post #140 of 961 Old 12-12-2015, 04:57 PM
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Yes - to me too. Emotiva often seems to be pretty directionless though, introducing new product lines and letting others disappear almost at random. When they were at the mercy of Tonewinner I guess they didn't have much control. Now they have started to manufacture in the USA it gives them more control but also pushes up their prices, robbing them of their big USP (high performance at low cost = fantastic value). If they are trying to move upmarket, then it could be a very bad move for them.
+1

Asian manufacturing usually makes a lot of sense for a company's bottom line. As such, the only reason (patriotism aside) you would bring manufacturing back to the USA is if you NEED more control of your product. That doesn't speak much confidence to the solidity of emotivas current models.

The next generation XPA's might be great amps, but at those prices I'd be more inclined to add to my Parasound Halo lineup or something else of like. Step carefully, Emotiva. You're encroaching on the price points of some very good competition.

I remember when Hyundai built the excel, which was a terrible little Korean car. Nowadays their cars aren't half bad, but I'd still probably never buy one because I associate the brand with that cheap little 5 speed turdbox my step mom used to rock around in. Such is the case when any company builds a "value" reputation and then tries to go upmarket. Those who remember the original products will always be skeptical of the new ones.

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post #141 of 961 Old 12-12-2015, 05:29 PM
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Biggest issue Emotiva has, is USA is the only servicepoint.
Something is broken in my XMC and have to send it back from Europe to the USA.
Other brands have local service stations.
Though Emotiva does give a huge bang for buck with the old products.
Can't say anything on gen 3

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post #142 of 961 Old 12-12-2015, 05:32 PM
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Such is the case when any company builds a "value" reputation and then tries to go upmarket. Those who remember the original products will always be skeptical of the new ones.
But in this case, Emotiva had a great product at VALUE prices from the beginning. Their reputation has always been very good, so no one will be skeptical.

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post #143 of 961 Old 12-12-2015, 10:30 PM
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But in this case, Emotiva had a great product at VALUE prices from the beginning. Their reputation has always been very good, so no one will be skeptical.
I guess that depends on if you subscribe to the "all amps sound the same" school of thought. I don't.

I have owned Emotiva, and have moved on. That's not to say that Emotiva doesn't build decent amps, especially considering their current price point, but double those prices and value goes out the window.

Both cars run well and look great, but would you rather spend $50k on a hyundai or a lexus? Better question would be, is there VALUE in a $50k Hyundai to the same degree as the Lexus?

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post #144 of 961 Old 12-13-2015, 04:23 AM
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So Emotiva, having built their entire success to date, and their business model entirely, on manufacturing in China and passing the savings of so doing onto their customers in the form of very highly specified amplifiers at exceptionally good prices, suddenly decide they are, at heart, down-home Tennessee boys with a duty to 'make it in America'.

Let's think about it. I use an iPhone, and a Mac, made in China. I have loudspeakers from England, Canada and Denmark. I drive a Jaguar made in England, but from a company owned in India. My car before was a Mercedes made in Germany. I've owned cars made by Honda in Japan too. I drink coffee from Brazil, tea from Ceylon, beer from Holland, stout from Ireland, whisky from Scotland, red wine from Australia and white wine from New Zealand. Oh, and water from France. I eat oranges from Spain, peaches from France, bananas from the Caribbean and tomatoes from Italy. My wristwatch is made in Switzerland. My suits are made in England, my shirts in France and my ties in Italy. My sneakers are made in Taiwan. I watch a TV made in Korea and a Projector made in Japan on a screen made in Norway. Using an Oppo Blu-ray player made in China. I insure my home with a company based in Switzerland and my bank is owned by guys in Hong Kong. I use arguably the world's best room correction software and it's made in Sweden. As is the desk I am sitting at and the chair I am sitting on. My oven was made by Germans and my dishwasher made by Americans. The floor in the kitchen came from a quarry in Italy.

But hey, I want an amplifier made in the good old US of A, because then I will be doing my bit. Really? I mean, really? It's not my responsibility to make sure the other guy has a job. That's his responsibility. My responsibility is to make sure I get the best I can get, at a price I'm happy to pay.

We live in the 21st century. In a global marketplace. So, to me, the notion of paying 25-40% more than I had to pay last year, so that a handful of people in Tennessee can build me an amplifier, made almost entirely of parts manufactured in Asia no less, is as ludicrous as driving a horse and carriage so that grooms remain in full employment. And were those people in Tennesse all unemployed before Emotiva made this momentous decision to offer less for more? Or did they just move from other jobs down the road? And if Emotiva's decision forces them out of business, will those people remain unemployed for ever?

So my advice is this: buy the best product you can, at the best price you can find and quit fretting about where it's made. Unless of course, every single thing you own is made in the country of your birth. If it is, then maybe, just maybe, you have a point.
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post #145 of 961 Old 12-13-2015, 05:33 AM
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But hey, I want an amplifier made in the good old US of A, because then I will be doing my bit.
No.

Back in the day, Made In {insert western world English speaking country} where h-fi was concerned was meant to mean the design and build expertise was local, those people were passionate about what they were doing and quality was paramount. You stood a very good chance of buying something that would stand the test of time. It had nothing to do with keeping the people of the country in work; it was a statement of quality.

These days, I don't know if it does mean anything any more.
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post #146 of 961 Old 12-13-2015, 05:39 AM
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No.

Back in the day, Made In {insert western world English speaking country} where h-fi was concerned was meant to mean the design and build expertise was local, those people were passionate about what they were doing and quality was paramount. You stood a very good chance of buying something that would stand the test of time. It had nothing to do with keeping the people of the country in work; it was a statement of quality.

These days, I don't know if it does mean anything any more.
That's kind of my point, Mick. Look for the quality, not where it's made. If the best quality/performance/price ratio is from a unit made in <wherever> then that is the one to buy. It might be made in the US or in England or in Asia. Where it's made just isn't a factor in my decision-making process now that manufacturing is globalised. The Chinese make some brilliant gear - often it is designed in the US (eg Apple) and made in China, which is perhaps the best of both worlds since the consumer gets a well-made product but at a better price.
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post #147 of 961 Old 12-13-2015, 07:22 AM
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I guess that depends on if you subscribe to the "all amps sound the same" school of thought. I don't.

I have owned Emotiva, and have moved on. That's not to say that Emotiva doesn't build decent amps, especially considering their current price point, but double those prices and value goes out the window.

Both cars run well and look great, but would you rather spend $50k on a hyundai or a lexus? Better question would be, is there VALUE in a $50k Hyundai to the same degree as the Lexus?
Absolutely! Value yes, social status no. The Hyundai may actually be the better car and the better value. The problem is that people associate social status for quality. Did Hyundai make cheap, unreliable cars at one point? Yes. Did the parent company of Lexus (Toyota) make cheap, unreliable cars at one point? Yes - go back to the early to mid 70s. Toyota came up with the brand Lexus (Luxury Export US market) in 1989 to compete in the upper social classes in the US market - it worked. Those unwilling to drive a Toyota were willing to drive a Lexus because it had a higher social class ranking. The only validity I give your example is resale value, but; I don't factor that into vehicle purchases. Probably because I never buy anything new. I let others eat the majority of the depreciation first.

Your approach Emotiva with the same social context. Emotive amps are great value and reliable amps. I have no doubt that your brain is telling you that you hear a difference; however, I am willing to wager that you nor anyone else would be able to pick out a high end amp vs an Emotiva in a double blind test. Emotiva doesn't get the social status of a $5k+ amp. You simply can't rub shoulders with the HT "big boys" with "Chinese crap" in your rack. I get it. It is your money, and I am not one to say how you spend it. Different strokes for different folks as they say.

In full disclosure, I am not a current Emotiva owner. I don't want my statements to be interpreted as a "fanboy" defending my product/purchase.

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post #148 of 961 Old 12-13-2015, 07:28 AM
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Absolutely! Value yes, social status no. The Hyundai actually may be the better car and the better value. The problem is that people like yourself associate social status with quality. Did Hyundai make cheap, unreliable cars at one point? Yes. Did the parent company of Lexus (Toyota) make cheap, unreliable cars at one point? Yes - go back to the early to mid 70s. Toyota came up with the brand Lexus (Luxury Export US market) to compete in the upper, snobbery markets It worked. Those unwilling to drive a Toyota were willing to drive a Lexus because it had a higher social class ranking. The only validity I give your example is resale value, but; I don't factor that into vehicle purchases. Probably because I never buy anything new. I let others eat the majority of the depreciation first.

Your approach Emotiva with the same social context. Emotive amps are great value and reliable amps. I have no doubt that your brain is telling you that you hear a difference; however, I am willing to wager that you nor anyone else would be able to pick out a high end amp vs an Emotiva in a double blind test. Emotiva doesn't get the social status of a $5k+ amp. You simply can't rub shoulders with the HT "big boys" with "Chinese crap" in your rack. I get it. It is your money, and I am not one to say how you spend it. Different strokes for different folks as they say.
Not completely true.
The xpa sounds similar to a Rotel RMB1075.
But higher class still sounds better.
I haven't heard xpa2 or 1 or the xpr.
But the xpa-200 for example is similar to the xpa-5.

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post #149 of 961 Old 12-13-2015, 07:40 AM
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Not completely true.
The xpa sounds similar to a Rotel RMB1075.
But higher class still sounds better.
I haven't heard xpa2 or 1 or the xpr.
But the xpa-200 for example is similar to the xpa-5.

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Then we are back to if you can determine one amp over the other in a controlled blind test. I say you won't - you say you will. Deadlock.
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post #150 of 961 Old 12-13-2015, 07:45 AM
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Then we are back to if you can determine one amp over the other in a controlled blind test. I say you won't - you say you will. Deadlock.
But history and experience is on your side. And we come back to the old question that if one amp sounds different to another then one of them is distorting the input signal as it passes it to the output. Modern SS amps of even modest quality have measurements which show they just don't do that. Hence they have no 'sound' of their own. Nor would we want our amps to act as undefeatable tone controls either of course. But people will believe what they believe and you can show them the measurements till doomsday and they won't believe you, or them.
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