Emotiva Updates XPA Amplifiers to Generation 3 - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by normanu View Post
I'll go one further. My Electrocompaniet sounds different after 1hr when it is heated up.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
I'm sure you probably THINK it sounds different when heated up.

Again, double volume equalized tests below clipping that takes away bias show no difference.
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post #182 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by nesto719 View Post
I'm getting ready to buy a gen1 xpa3 and was wondering if yours was a gen1 , and if so , is it noisy???

I had the XPA GEN1 for 4 years and not even a sound from it.

Who needs 4K?... just go see your optometrist.
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post #183 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by NODES View Post
I had the XPA GEN1 for 4 years and not even a sound from it.
The XPA-3, Gen 2 (and probably Gen1) has a two pronged socket on the back of the unit.

Therefore - there are no competing "grounds" which can cause a ground loop issue from the Emotiva XPA-3 from my experience. Dead silent.

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post #184 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
There's more going on at Emotiva than what's contained in this group on announcements. Just got off the phone with Dan Laufman, lots of off-the-record details I cannot share, but what I can say is this is just the beginning.
When it comes to Dan Laufman making promises my motto has become "seeing is believing"
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post #185 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
When it comes to Dan Laufman making promises my motto has become "seeing is believing"
I've been wondering if he's been doing some consulting work for DTS on their much-delayed, highly spun DTS:X launch
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post #186 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 10:28 AM
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Lol. That is funny right their^

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post #187 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 11:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by zgeneral View Post
I'm sure you probably THINK it sounds different when heated up.

Again, double volume equalized tests below clipping that takes away bias show no difference.
Can you please stop pushing your views on this thread?
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post #188 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 12:45 PM
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Any idea when Emotiva's current sale ends and when they will stop selling the XPA series? Sorry if it's been asked and answered before!

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post #189 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by charleyp1 View Post
Any idea when Emotiva's current sale ends and when they will stop selling the XPA series? Sorry if it's been asked and answered before!
I asked the same from Emotiva sales team last week, and the person who replied by email told me that she did not know exactly, BUT "The sale will last until at least through the first week of January."

I was hoping to see the new Gen 3 at CES before ordering either Gen 2 or Gen 3.
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post #190 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 01:10 PM
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Best bet is to buy cheap now like I did.
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post #191 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Homecinemax View Post
I asked the same from Emotiva sales team last week, and the person who replied by email told me that she did not know exactly, BUT "The sale will last until at least through the first week of January."

I was hoping to see the new Gen 3 at CES before ordering either Gen 2 or Gen 3.
Giggity! I hope to snatch up a XPA-3 after shaking the offering plate around the family this Xmas. :-)
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post #192 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
Can you please stop pushing your views on this thread?
It has nothing to do with my views. That's what the data on the topic says. It's snake oil.
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post #193 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 06:46 PM
 
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More nonsense from the amps sound the same cult. This thread is not on all amps sounding the same. Could you please save your dogma for those types of threads?
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post #194 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by zgeneral View Post
It has nothing to do with my views. That's what the data on the topic says. It's snake oil.
Except you don't have all the data. And when you speak in absolutes, it makes you sound foolish.

If all amps sound the same, why even bother visiting this board? And why even post in an Emotiva thread when there are several cheaper brands?
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post #195 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 08:03 PM
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More nonsense from the amps sound the same cult. This thread is not on all amps sounding the same. Could you please save your dogma for those types of threads?
Many still believe amps have unique colorations or intentional "voicing", while many have come around to thinking all competent amps "sound" the same when any mitigating factors are controlled for. Point-counterpoint responses will often ensue when either viewpoint is raised. Your complaints about the intrusion of the latter viewpoint being expressed while having no beef when the former viewpoint is being given voice only reflects your bias and lack of desire for fair play on the subject. Furthermore, complaining about it only prolongs any perceived distraction to the overall thrust of the thread. Best to let each have their say. Either ignore those you disagree with or state your opposing case and then move on. Keeps the hostility to a reasonable minimum and both sides get to have their say.

Sorry, gotta run to the cult meeting now. It's orgy night!

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post #196 of 961 Old 12-14-2015, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by DustinF View Post

If all amps sound the same, why even bother visiting this board?
I can't speak for the other poster, but, IMO, there's lots of reasons to purchase a better amp than purely the cheapest amp available, even if in a lab all reasonably designed modern amps "sound the same" when level matched. These are attributes like build quality, low-noise floor, power efficiency, a preference in topology, whether the amp needs a cooling fan, whether its balanced and the type of connectors it accepts, etc., which are all things that can differentiate one amp from another.

Also, I may need more power out of an amp than the cheaper amp that gets the benefit of "level matching" in laboratory-listening tests provides. I think cheap or underpowered amplifiers can and do get pushed past their design limits and clip or disport more frequently than some might like to admit, in which case a more robust amp will obviously sound better than an amp that's getting pushed past its design limits.

I personally desire amps that are reasonably priced, that are well designed, that have a low noise floor, that are efficient, that look aesthetically pleasing and look like a quality component, that will power my speakers to as loud as I want them to get without clipping within the speaker's design limits, and that are built with quality parts by qualified workers so that the amp will last for years to come. I'd also prefer to not have a fan if I can get away with not having one. So I come on here and read posts about new amps to see how they fare compared to the competition.

What I really don't want, however, is an amp that materially alters the signal, i.e., one that "colors" the sound, i.e., one that gives the signal a "house sound," when it is operating within its design limits. IMO, a modern amp that actually colors the sound (other than its noise floor within its design specs) is defective by definition and likely introducing an unacceptable amount of distortion or noise into the signal. I would be really surprised if a $2K, 7-Channel, 200 watt per channel amp from Emotiva would sound materially different than a comparable offering from ATI, for example. I would be very surprised--more like shocked--if I could blind A/B/X select between an Emotiva and a comparable ATI amp in my system. But there are still attributes that can differentiate these amps from one another and influence a rational purchasing decision. And hence this thread.
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post #197 of 961 Old 12-15-2015, 01:17 PM
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Emotiva Updates XPA Amplifiers to Generation 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgeneral View Post
I'm sure you probably THINK it sounds different when heated up.

I wouldn't dismiss the claim out of hand.

Keep in mind the poster referenced an "audiophile" brand. Often "audiophile" parts are engineered less thoroughly than commodity stuff sold to people who love music. So it's entirely possible that the precious bauble-box has some design or QC problem that makes for a sonic change after something heats up or whatever. Such a change is a sign of pitiable junk, though, not quality.

As for these amps...this announcement is Emotiva's least exciting in their current bunch. Boat anchors at typical prices...meh. If amps were rated intelligently (i.e. in a useful figure such as dBW) instead of stupidly, then less educated people would be less inclined to salivate over minor power bumps.

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post #198 of 961 Old 12-15-2015, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
More nonsense from the amps sound the same cult. This thread is not on all amps sounding the same. Could you please save your dogma for those types of threads?
Nobody has said "all amps sound the same". In a thread discussing a significant price hike on a manufacturer's product price list, discussing whether they have any benefits over the outgoing amps is surely relevant, and of interest to anyone about to spend their money? Anyone who buys one of the new amps thinking it will offer improved sound quality is just being mislead into wasting that money.

Of course, it is possible that a new amp might improve sound quality. But it can only do so in certain circumstances, which often do not apply. These are:

  1. That the current amp the user has is underpowered for the speakers it is attached to, or the room it is in or the SPL required (or a combination of these) and is thus being driven into clipping. Replacing that amp with a more powerful amp will improve the SQ by eliminating the clipping. But it will not improve the SQ just because it is a new amp, or costs more, or looks nicer or is Class D. Note that one really needs double the power to achieve a worthwhile difference of +3dB).

  2. That the current amp is broken, or so badly designed that it cannot perform the basic job of an amplifier which is to take the input and reproduce it unchanged at the output other than in amplitude.

I am sure you can see that the 'basic job' I describe above is fundamental to good amplifier design. It is also a task which is easily achieved with modern SS units, even those which cost modest amounts of money. If the amp changes the signal (other than in amplitude) then it is acting as as sort of non-defeatable tone control which surely nobody wants? There are other, better ways to adjust the frequency response than by using the amplifier to do it.

So, if the amps in question all pass the input to the output unchanged (other than in amplitude) then how is it possible for one to 'sound different/better' than another? What would be causing the difference?

And, if you need proof that modern SS amps do indeed perform their 'basic job' properly, just look at the amplifier reviews where they publish measurements and note that all the measurements are essentially the same, and/or well below the capability of the human ear to discern differences (eg, if 0.01% is inaudible, then so will 0.0001% be, despite the fact that the latter is a 'superior' figure').
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post #199 of 961 Old 12-15-2015, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinF View Post
Except you don't have all the data. And when you speak in absolutes, it makes you sound foolish.
The data is available. Look at the amp reviews on the good websites where they show the measured performance data.

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Originally Posted by DustinF View Post
If all amps sound the same, why even bother visiting this board?
Nobody is saying "all amps sound the same". Can you quote back where this was said?

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Originally Posted by DustinF View Post
And why even post in an Emotiva thread when there are several cheaper brands?
Because it adds a useful dimension to the discussion? As I just said above, if people believe that these new amps inherently 'sound better' and then buy on that basis, they will be disappointed when, placebo aside, they realise they don't actually 'sound better' at all. An amp shouldn't have a 'sound' anyway - its purpose is to amplify the signal not to change it.

As for cheaper brands, sure, if they have the power required, then buy them and spend the money saved on things that matter (room, speakers, subs). Crown pro amps have already been mentioned as a good alternative for some to the new Emo amps, offering a lot more power for a lot less cash.
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post #200 of 961 Old 12-15-2015, 02:00 PM
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Very few amplifier measurements are not taken driving speakers (reactive loads).
HomeTheaterHifi sometimes uses Carver ribbon speakers with mono-blocks and mega-amps.

The problem is no speaker is representative.
Momentary clipping can occur and no one knows when that might be cut it in (or cut out) because it depends on room, listening levels, and program material.

Amp measure differently.
I am sure that they sound the same listing to one or two simultaneous continuous tones.

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post #201 of 961 Old 12-15-2015, 02:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
...
What I really don't want, however, is an amp that materially alters the signal, i.e., one that "colors" the sound, i.e., one that gives the signal a "house sound," when it is operating within its design limits. IMO, a modern amp that actually colors the sound (other than its noise floor within its design specs) is defective by definition and likely introducing an unacceptable amount of distortion or noise into the signal. I would be really surprised if a $2K, 7-Channel, 200 watt per channel amp from Emotiva would sound materially different than a comparable offering from ATI, for example. I would be very surprised--more like shocked--if I could blind A/B/X select between an Emotiva and a comparable ATI amp in my system. But there are still attributes that can differentiate these amps from one another and influence a rational purchasing decision. And hence this thread.
Ah yes, if it were only that simple.
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post #202 of 961 Old 12-15-2015, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
They absolutely are built in the US.


Built or assembled? A big difference.
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post #203 of 961 Old 12-15-2015, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by visiter555 View Post
Built or assembled? A big difference.
Yeah, I hear you, but I guess the proper terminology is debatable. http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/...de_in_usa.html

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post #204 of 961 Old 12-15-2015, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Yeah, I hear you, but I guess the proper terminology is debatable. http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/...de_in_usa.html
Based on the FTC's verbiage it seems pretty clear that Emotiva's new product line is "assembled" in the USA and not actually made in the USA. And in fact, that's what your initial post says, "assembled".

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The FTC says that “all or virtually all” of the product has to be made in America, and that “all significant parts, processing, and labor that go into the product must be of U.S. origin.”
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post #205 of 961 Old 12-15-2015, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DustinF View Post
Except you don't have all the data. And when you speak in absolutes, it makes you sound foolish.

If all amps sound the same, why even bother visiting this board? And why even post in an Emotiva thread when there are several cheaper brands?
Typical strawman argument. That I point out the data on the topic of the forum is all of the more reason that I should be here.
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post #206 of 961 Old 12-15-2015, 10:10 PM
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The XPA-5 G3 ($1600) has 5 channels and pumps 275 watts per channel into 8 ohms.
Anyone know what the watts per channel will be into 4 ohms?

What's the expected availability of these amps? The website says the XPA-5 gen 2 is out of stock and shipping at the end of December - is that referring to the gen3?

Are there any improvements in the quality of the amps over the gen2 or do they just cost more?

What would be a good alternative for a class D amp (I know the Emotiva are Class A/B) that can put out 300-400 watts into 4 ohms x 5 channels?

Thanks!
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post #207 of 961 Old 12-16-2015, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Based on the FTC's verbiage it seems pretty clear that Emotiva's new product line is "assembled" in the USA and not actually made in the USA. And in fact, that's what your initial post says, "assembled".
In that case Emotiva should stop marketing their products as "Made in the USA".

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busi...e-usa-standard

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post #208 of 961 Old 12-16-2015, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Yeah, I hear you, but I guess the proper terminology is debatable. http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/...de_in_usa.html

I don't believe any customs office would say it was debatable. Clear cut in their definition which is all that matters to me.


When people start saying it's debatable, that means assembled 99% of the time.


Don't even start on the "content" debate...lol


ALL the links are NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) not some business site...for Canadian importation (supposedly mirrored in US & Mexico as per NAFTA)


http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publicati...1-3-1-eng.html


http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publicati...1-3-3-eng.html



15. There are different methods used to determine the country of origin, depending on whether the goods are imported from a NAFTA country (the United States or Mexico) or from a non-NAFTA country. When determining the country of origin for goods imported from a NAFTA country, a set of marking rules are used. These are technical rules that are applied systematically to determine the country or countries of origin of a good for country of origin marking purposes. The following list identifies some of the criteria used in determining the country of origin for goods imported from NAFTA countries. This list is not all inclusive and is only meant to provide a general guide as to how the country of origin may be determined. Generally, the country of origin is the country in which:
  • (a) the goods are wholly obtained or produced;
  • (b) the goods are produced exclusively from domestic materials;
  • (c) the foreign materials incorporated into the goods undergo a specific tariff classification change; or
  • (d) the single material that gives the goods their essential character was produced.
16. For goods imported from a non-NAFTA country, the country of origin of goods is the country in which the goods were substantially manufactured. This means the country where the major part of production or manufacturing took place. It will be necessary to consider the accumulated costs of material, labour, and overhead when determining the proper country of origin for marking purposes.

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post #209 of 961 Old 12-16-2015, 12:35 PM
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The one downside I see to the new design is that the old 5 and 7-channel amps can produce more power in 2-channel mode than the new ones. Granted, they a solution for that - dedicated amps for front mains - but for me, 500w/channel when listening to just 2-channel music is great, and then the exact same amp can do 7-channels for home theater use. Both won't be in use at the same time. One amp but dual purpose. It's another reason why the current deals on the table now are good deals.
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post #210 of 961 Old 12-16-2015, 12:57 PM
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Are they going to continue to sell the gen2 models? The website says they are out of stock and available at the end of December, but it is unclear if this just means all gen2 stock is cleared out and they are waiting for gen3 for end of December, or if indeed they are restocking gen2 models...?
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