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Denon AVR-x2200w vs Onkyo TX-NR646

21K views 76 replies 20 participants last post by  diceman1000 
#1 ·
So I am in the market for a new AV receiver and these two fit my budget. I currently have a Denon 2311ci that just lacks some features and I am looking to start building my 4K setup so the 2311ci will be on eBay shortly. My room is 18x18 with 8' ceilings. I currently have a 5.1 setup consisting over front klipsch reference 5.3I believe and kilpsch dipole 4.3 in the rear with an rc10 center. I also have a rythmik 12 port sub. My 2311ci is rated for 130 watts x7. I am first concerned that the x2200 might be under powered. But I like the feature set tremendously. I do like to turn it up some but not over board when we watch movies. It is purely a tv/movie setup, no music. I am planning on adding some ceiling speakers as well for my sides. I am trying to keep my expenses for the receiver under 700. The denon is on sale for 599 and the Onkyo is the same. The Onkyo is rated for 5 watts more. Power isn't as my driving factor as much as sound quality, sorround quality and 4K. I sorround fields and fullness, imaging and so on are my main points. Back in the day when I bought my 2311 I had a pioneer 1123k I tested along side the 2311 as well as a Yamaha and the denon clearly had the better fuller sound, better imaging, better dialogue and better fuller bass. So the other went back. Let me know what you guys think. Or if I should consider something else. Dts X/atoms seems like it would be wise to have considering my speaker layout with the two side ceiling so I believe I should be looking at units that support it. Once again let me know. Hope I gave you guys enough info. Thanks.
 
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#2 ·
Power difference between the three models will be moot, although the 2311CI is rated at 105W/2CH and the 646 is rated at 100W/2CH and the X2200W is rated at 95W/2CH. The X2200W uses the same version of Audyssey as does your 2311CI which is likely to provide better audio quality than ACCUEQ on the Onkyo.
 
#3 ·
thanks jdsmoothie, so it seems like you like the X2200W better. Considering the price is equal (because of the sale) the denon to me seems like a better option. I can get the Onkyo 838 for the same as the X2200W as well but it is last years model, has no DTS:X but does have power and a better block/transformer. But I do like the DAC on the 646. Seems like onkyo has stepped up their game! The 192K/24 Bit DACs Burr-Brown is on the 838 and the 646 has a 384 kHz/32-bit Hi-Grade DAC Asahi Kasei AKM4458. What does denon use for their DAC?
 
#7 ·
I have also been looking at these two receivers. I have an Onkyo 809 right now (going out for repairs) so I'm used to Audyssey XT. From what I've read, the 646 no longer has Audyssey but the X2200 does. I don't really do a lot of music streaming. I am watching movies 97% of the time. As recently as last night, I was going to forgo Atmos and maybe I will....all depends on watch DTS:X does. I believe both receiver have access to both.


I will be ordering one of the two within the next hour. Anymore input?
 
#9 ·
I would like to stay with Onkyo and I guess I am by keeping my 809 (once it's fixed) but I'm am rather suspicious about their move to save money by dropping Audyssey which I happen to like. I'm not sure how well their new room correction works. I'm used to XT and maybe it's time to switch it up a little. I placed my order for the X2200.
 
#13 ·
I ended up grabbing an Onkyo 747 as well as a Denon X2200W. Gonna hook them both up and the victor stays! Was able to find both for a very reasonable price. X2200W was 599 and the 747 I got for 639...open box.
Denon has reduced the MSRP on the X2200W from $799 to $599 thru this Saturday. :)
 
#16 ·
Sign up for Fry's promo code and if your local Fry's has the X3200 you can pick it up for $499 plus tax - I was looking at the X2200 or the Marantz SR5009 from A4L until I found out about this sale - i'm now enjoying my new X3200
 
#17 ·
A little late to the game here but I had always been an Onkyo fan. I went from a 505 to a 709 to a 646. After having the 646 for a little while, I really missed audyssey. AccuEQ was horrible for me. If you value room correction at all, its a no brainer in my opinion. I ended up jumping to an x4200w almost solely based on xt32. I definitely preferred the bluetooth implementation in the Onkyo, but other than that, I like everything about the Denon better. I realize that the 646 to the 4200 isnt really a fair comparison, but accueq was so horrible for me I wont own another Onkyo until they do something different/better. My 646 has been relegated to music duty in the basement for now.
 
#21 ·
I also left Onkyo behind for A Denon unit this time because of the lack of audyssey but it seems that even though the Denon has the same version that my Onkyo 800 has that it does not have the same capabilities.
 
#31 ·
So I got both setup and tried the Denon for a Day and the Onkyo for a Day. Early observations are: The Denon produces significantly better video. My picture detail, sharpness, and so on have improved!!! This I was not expecting at all!! So that video processor is either not degrading via pass thru or it is processing. Either way my picture looks AMAZING going thru the Denon! Ill take it! As for the Onkyo the picture when passing thru the HDMI gets degraded.. huge disappointment. As a long time Onkyo owner and one that got stung by the HDMI issues in the past this is really frustrating. Not that the picture is bad but there is a noticable difference. All thru the same cables and Samsung 65" HDTV. Now on to the sounds early observations. Dialogue is better on the denon...you get more detail and clarity. It isnt a big difference like the video differences but it is noticeable. Bass the onkyo is nothing short of amazing. I replayed tron legacy light cycle scene about 20x on both! The scene where the two go guys sandwich the bad guys bike! It is a rumbler!! My FV12 really rolled the floor. It was also more apparent during Star Wars ep 2 of the nubian craft enters the atmosphere as well as the seismic charge sequence. Have lots more listening to do. I do not like the calibration of the Onkyo AccuEQ is complete garbage!! It crossed my main at 120hz...we are talking about Klipsch RF52. They arent bookself speakers!!! I believe they should be xover to something in the neighborhood of 60-80hz. Audessey is significantly more accurate and more comprehensive!! These are early observation but the where also the obvious ones. The AccuEQ takes a few minutes where as the Audessey takes 20 mins with multiple measure positions. AccuEQ...one location? It also didnt crossover my towers correctly! Level were also very goofy! They should not have cut this corner! The Onkyo does have more balls but it is more like a bull in a china shop than somes powerful yet refined! The Denon which I thought was going to be inferior is actually my early favorite. I just need to see how I cant get my sub to perform better with it. I am going to post another thread on how to config my sub with the denon. I hope this is a case of a bad LFE port on the denon where I lose all my dynamics. The guys over at SVS have said in the past to watch for this. Know how my sub performs I believe I need to take a deeper look. More to come!
 
#36 ·
There are few reviews out there that knock denon x series for lack of any low end punch so im not sure if there is anything that could be done about that. Even my x3200 was quite lacking in the base department compared to vsx90. I have svs sb 12nsd sub btw.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#32 ·
I still like to play SACD and DVD-A discs, so I went with the Onkyo N646. No regrets. Plays everything great. Very punchy sounds for Atmos discs. I didn't try the higher model Denons, but I did try the AVR-S910W, but returned it for the Onkyo. The AVR-S910W wasn't more docile and didn't support SACD's or DVD-A.
 
#34 ·
I got a chance to do some more critical viewing with my X2200 earlier. I agree, the picture does seem sharper than with my Onkyo 809.

What jumped out at me more were that my subs seemed to performing better at lower levels than with the 809. Not that my subs need any help in any size room. I actually had to back them down a notch or two.

I threw in the original Iron Man where Stark builds the armor in the cave. When he was walking around in that thing, my subs made it sound as if that armor weighed thousands of pounds...lol.
 
#40 ·
Using a mic and REW or something similar would be the easiest way to check it. You could probably use a frequency generator at specific frequencies with your SPL meter and then plot out the response for a similar result. I posted a REW graph of my accueq vs audyssey results back in post #22 . I intentionally left off all EQ on the subs and tried to make it as close of an "out of the box" type of comparison to remove other variables and just show the differences between the two for my room. There was a difference of ~9db at 50hz (higher on the Onkyo), but the entire 40-60hz range was quite a bit higher on the Onkyo. Adding a few db to the subwoofer channel on the Denon after running audyssey brought things up to more comparable levels without having the boomy peaks as with accueq. If your system/room responds similarly, I think that could definitely explain why the bass is louder on the Onkyo for you. Neither AccuEQ or Audyssey are perfect, but I definitely like what Audyssey is doing a lot more than what AccuEQ did (or didnt do).
 
#44 ·
So I ran the Audyssey this AM and then did some manual adjustments to it. For starters I spoke with Rythmik and asked about what I should do prior to calibration. My FV12 has an older amp with a bass extension section on the amp. On there you have Freq and Damping. They said set it at 14hz for Freq and Low for Damping. I also set the level at 12 o'clock. And finally on the sub set the freq crossover at 120hz...its highest so the AVR would do the crossover. Then ran Audyssey. It set the speakers to full which they told me is a no no. So I manually adjusted it to small and set the crossover at 60hz for the fronts however I worry about the EQ...for it is set for what audyssey room calibration...not sure how I can get around it. LFE was on 100Hz on the denon in the bass section. Did a listen and the Denon is much better and dynamic more controlled and lower...and tons of power/punch. It hits lower then the Onkyo. The onkyo seems to have a hair more authority but that seems to be because it exaggerates the boomy section of bass more then the denon which some HT listener might find good...I dont because it overwhelms the other tracks making those details absent!! So as it stands...the denon in my subjective opinion is the better piece. AccuEQ is a failure! It made so many mistakes. To the untrained ear...not that mine is, might find it ok. I do not like it when doing back to back listening. I have more to do. So stay tuned.
 
#46 ·
Did more tweaking and the Denon looks to be staying. AccuEQ is just flat out bad! It exaggerated certain low frequencies after listening a number of times that it would overwhelm other parts of a movies track. I tried to adjust it out but then you would end up the other way. It is just a poor calibration tool. I did try calibrating it a few more times...and once again, would always get my towers in front incorrect. The 747 is not bad by any means I just found the denon to be better in my opinion. It has significantly better imaging, dialogue is more distinct, and overall cleaner. I will say this onkyo has came a long way from my older piece I had 7 years ago. This is a significantly improved product. If they went back to Audyssey I believe this would be very close. However I cant recommend the 747 from a picture standpoint. Seeing both back to back a number of time, the denons video handoff left the picture very nice. The 747 there was some loss. That is what put me over the edge. As for bass once I got the audyssey set right the bass on the denon was deeper and less intrusive. So the power was there without ruining the other parts of the movies soundtrack.
 
#48 ·
Glad I went for the X2200 instead of the 646. I had my suspicions about AccuEQ so I stayed with what I knew...Audyssey.
 
#49 ·
Unfortunately discovered a small problem (major!!)...sad day! So I am not certain what the deal is but when I play certain Blu-rays via my xbox one the denon does something strange. It will dim the screen 50%!!! It is random in nature and only happens with the xbox one and denon x2200w combination. For example, I was playing the matrix revolution and when a scene switches to a dark area the screen dims 50% and stays there. If I unplug and replug in the HDMI while it is still going it will go back to full but will not stay. So I hooked up the 747...doesnt do this! I also tried the old 2311ci...doesnt do this either. I can duplicate the issues everytime and it doesnt just happen with the matrix, when my sons started a game of NHL 15 it did it as well. If I switch from the blu-ray source to the CBL/SAT it is bake to normal but doesnt stay. I believe to either have a bad unit or denon has a problem on their hands here! Once again I cannot tell you how much I like the sound better on the Denon but this is a major problem. Some background and why I believe this is pointing to the new denon is this. I have had the Xbox One hooked up to my old Denon 2311Ci for over a year, it has seen 100s of Blu-rays. All the cabling is the same (Xbox came with a 4k xbox one cable) so It is not a cabling issues not to mention it does NOT exhibit this with the 747 either. My trouble shooting has been power cycling on the xbox one, power cycle on the denon. I have tried different HDMIs on the X2200W as well. Still the same dimming issues. I have scoured google for this issue with no avail. It only does this with the xbox one. I might grab another blu-ray player to see if that is the case. Either I have a defective x2200w or this is a design issue. Either way it really breaks my heart!! Its a sad day!
 
#53 ·
That is my set (klipsch). I like it however audyssey can make or break any speaker. In my case they didnt quite get my klipsch right because the horn can over power the highs and they EQ out a ton of stuff that caused my klipsch mains to get lost or less impactful. Once I adjusted some of audyssey misconfiguration my klipsch came alive such as going from reference to flat. As for recommending or not, speaker sound is subjective...some prefer a brighter, some prefer a warmer..etc. Dont let anyone ever talk you out of a speaker until you listen and make your own determination. No one typically has the same listen preferences...and when you factor audyssey in the mix it can alter a speaker that you might normal like so a speaker you dont like!! Audyssey is such a critical tool but one that needs to be watched and adjusted right! I think in most cases it can get you close and then you can make tweaks as I have.
 
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