Receiver predicament. Need advice... - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 05:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Receiver predicament. Need advice...

I have Klipsch Reference Pemiere front, center, and surrounds. I mainly got them for Home Theatre use but I do listen to a lot of music. I figured if Klipsch is good enough for commercial theatres then it's good enough for my home. I went to an audio store, did a demo, and they sounded crystal clear. I knew those were the speakers I wanted. I know Klipsch are known to be bright. I have them connected to an Onkyo receiver. The speakers are already broken in. Hundreds of hours of listening time so far and receiver is perfectly calibrated with speaker size, distance, crossover, level, tone. These speakers sounds very bright and not natural like I heard in the audio store. Even Klipsch described these speakers as having the most natural sound possible and not sounding as bright as their previous lines. The professional reviews on these speakers were all very positive.

Upon research, I found that Onkyo receivers produce a very bright sound. I have seen other threads where people had the same issues with Onkyo/Klipsch pairings. Most of the comments said that these two are a horrible combination. If I turn the treble all the way down it does sound better but I would prefer to these speakers paired with a receiver that produces a warmer sound without having to mess with the tone too much. Most forums I read stated that Marantz produces the best receivers on the market and produce a very warm sound and don't sound bright like Onkyos. Prior to dropping the money (because I'm not replacing my speakers which I just spent thousands on) do you feel like switching receivers from Onkyo to Marantz would make a noticeable difference in sound quality? I'm not sure which receiver the audio salesman was using but I'm sure in a high end audio store it was probably a 1,500+ receiver with features I will never use and wattage I don't need. Any advice would be welcome. Thanks. There is actually another issue I'd like to address but this post is too long already. I'll write it in another one.
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post #2 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 05:15 AM
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So you were happy until you read reviews of your gear? Did you run auto calibration when you got the speakers?
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post #3 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I wasn't happy until I read reviews. I'm a very perceptive guy. I noticed the issue then searched online to see if people had a similar issue and it confirmed it. My gear has wonderful reviews... But not together. I did run auto calibration then calibrated manually using measuring tape and an SPL meter. I figured a better receiver would be much easier to replace than the almost 2,500 I dropped on speakers... on sale! I'm just not sure how much this would affect my sound quality so I wanted feedback prior to making the purchase. I did switch my Onkyo out for a Yamaha receiver, for about an hour. It sounded absolutely horrible. I didn't think receivers made that much difference in sound quality but that test confirmed it. I was just wondering if people are satisfied with the sound from Marantz receivers or if they recommend any other brand that may not produce such a bright sound.
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post #4 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 06:11 AM
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Which Onkyo receiver do you have? If you have a 2014 or 2015 model, their proprietary AccuEQ room EQ software is, shall we say, less than adequate.

What's your budget?
Denon and Marantz equipment still includes Audyssey. The XT32 version is the best, but the AVRs including it are relatively expensive. However, if you're willing to get a previous year's model (one without Atmos or DTS:X) and/or one that's been refurbished, their prices are significantly reduced. When buying new equipment, be sure to call authorized dealers on the phone to get a quote. They are only allowed to publish MSRP, but can provide much lower pricing which contacted directly. (Resellers like Crutchfield and Best Buy always sell at MSRP and normally won't discount unless D+M has reduced the MSRP, which happens often enough.)

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post #5 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I actually just researched Pioneer Elite receivers and they have an option called "Dialogue Enhancement" which states it improves the clarity of dialogue during movie playback. This may give me the same clarity from my center channel during home theatre use like my Onkyo with AccuEQ but with better overall sound coming from a supposedly better receiver. Has anyone had any experience with Pioneer Elite? How is their sound compared to others?

My Onkyo is a 2014 model. I don't care about Atmos or any other fancy bells and whistles. I'm sticking with my 5.2 for my medium sized room. I just need a receiver with very good sound output. As long as it had DTS-HD master and DolbyHD codecs, a good DAC, and stereo mode for music then I'm satisfied.
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post #6 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFriden View Post
I actually just researched Pioneer Elite receivers and they have an option called "Dialogue Enhancement" which states it improves the clarity of dialogue during movie playback.
Most higher end AVRs have that feature. Most just turn up the volume of the center speaker although some do some slight frequency-shaping too.

Quote:
This may give me the same clarity from my center channel during home theatre use like my Onkyo with AccuEQ but with better overall sound coming from a supposedly better receiver. Has anyone had any experience with Pioneer Elite? How is their sound compared to others?
Sorry, can't help there. You might ask in one of the Pioneer threads.

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My Onkyo is a 2014 model. I don't care about Atmos or any other fancy bells and whistles. I'm sticking with my 5.2 for my medium sized room. I just need a receiver with very good sound output. As long as it had DTS-HD master and DolbyHD codecs, a good DAC, and stereo mode for music then I'm satisfied.
Very good pricing is available for older refurbished AVRs from sellers of refurbished equipment like Accessories4Less.

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post #7 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 06:45 AM
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I've used Pioneer MCACC for more than a decade and am very happy with it. They just added subwoofer EQ last year. From the reviews I've read, it's not as flexible as the XT32, but it's a LOT easier to get it set up properly.

That said, I can't help but wonder what, if any, kinds of room treatment you have? You could be facing reflections, room modes, or standing waves that are unique to your speaker/room setup. That would explain why the speakers sound so different in your home, especially if you're doing all your tuning by hand. The automatic EQs can do things with modes & phase that (as far as I know) a microphone and a tape measure won't.

Good luck!
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post #8 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a big sliding glass door but it's mostly covered by blinds. I have carpet which is good, so no reflections from hard floors. My family room does open up to the rest of the house which is a decent size and has high ceilings, 13-15 feet. I listened very close to the speaker. The brightness comes from the speaker itself. It's not from any reflection. I was just researching Pioneer Elite vs Marantz receivers and have not found a single poster yet that preferred the Pioneer Elite over the Marantz. I was wondering if Marantz has a Dialog Enhancement option like the Pioneer Elite receivers do so that my movie dialog sounds crystal clear. My Onkyo receiver has AccuEQ which only equalizes the center channel speaker for clear dialog during movies but keeps the surround speakers flat for a natural sound. This sounds like a perfect idea to me and it works. I know people hate AccuEQ and love Auddysey but AccuEQ has been the only method of achieving crystal clear dialog for me. I've tried an older Onkyo with Auddysey and a Yamaha receiver with YPAO and movie dialog was too deep. I felt vibrations hearing people talk. It drove me insane. Onkyo with AccuEQ was the only method of getting clear dialog with movies, however, ALL speakers sound bright, especially with music. I have to turn the treble all the way down to get a somewhat balanced sound. Before spending the cash for another high end receiver, being I had dialog problems with two previous receivers, I was wondering if Marantz has a Dialog Enhancement option for home theatre use like the Pioneer Elites do. I'm sure the Marantz sounds great with music but if I watch movies and feel vibrations when there is dialog like with the Yamaha and my older Onkyo I will be very upset.
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post #9 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFriden View Post
I have a big sliding glass door but it's mostly covered by blinds. I have carpet which is good, so no reflections from hard floors. My family room does open up to the rest of the house which is a decent size and has high ceilings, 13-15 feet. I listened very close to the speaker. The brightness comes from the speaker itself. It's not from any reflection. I was just researching Pioneer Elite vs Marantz receivers and have not found a single poster yet that preferred the Pioneer Elite over the Marantz. I was wondering if Marantz has a Dialog Enhancement option like the Pioneer Elite receivers do so that my movie dialog sounds crystal clear.
The only Dialog Enhancement provided in Marantz equipment is to increase the volume of the center channel. High-end Denon AVRs include some minimal frequency shaping. However, Audyssey XT32 does seem to do a better job of making dialog clear than do the lesser grades of Audyssey.
Quote:
My Onkyo receiver has AccuEQ which only equalizes the center channel speaker for clear dialog during movies but keeps the surround speakers flat for a natural sound. This sounds like a perfect idea to me and it works. I know people hate AccuEQ and love Auddysey but AccuEQ has been the only method of achieving crystal clear dialog for me. I've tried an older Onkyo with Auddysey and a Yamaha receiver with YPAO and movie dialog was too deep. I felt vibrations hearing people talk. It drove me insane. Onkyo with AccuEQ was the only method of getting clear dialog with movies, however, ALL speakers sound bright, especially with music. I have to turn the treble all the way down to get a somewhat balanced sound. Before spending the cash for another high end receiver, being I had dialog problems with two previous receivers, I was wondering if Marantz has a Dialog Enhancement option for home theatre use like the Pioneer Elites do.
See above.
Quote:
I'm sure the Marantz sounds great with music but if I watch movies and feel vibrations when there is dialog like with the Yamaha and my older Onkyo I will be very upset.
An apparent enhancement of a particular frequency range usually indicates that the microphone is having problems detecting that frequency range for some reason, so it tries to enhance it. This enhancement usually happens to higher frequencies, though, where it is caused by not tilting the center channel speaker so it points toward the main listening position (and thus at the microphone). I'm not sure what would cause the reverse. Seating the microphone or its tripod directly on cushions is known to cause various problems, though, which is one of the reasons why the use of a boom microphone stand is recommended in the FAQ.

A photograph or two of the listening environment showing the seating and the center channel speaker might yield some suggestions.

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post #10 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm out now. Will upload a picture later but my center channel speaker is located directly under my projector screen and pointed straight towards my listening position. I did place the calibration mic on top of my couch right where my ears would be and did not use a boom mic stand. Would this really make a difference? I have a cloth couch which should not reflect much sound. I dont have a boom mic but i do have a tripod. Should I try this instead? I just went to best buy's magnolia room and tested Marantz receivers to others. I know what people mean by they sound warm. The sound was very balanced with no noticeable distortion. The sales rep also tested a Yamaha receiver and it sounded just as bright as my Onkyo. I ordered the Marantz. Didn't have it in stock. Have to wait until the 21st to pick it up. I think that will definitely help with music. I just hope I don't have those same dialog issues with movies.
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post #11 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFriden View Post
I'm out now. Will upload a picture later but my center channel speaker is located directly under my projector screen and pointed straight towards my listening position. I did place the calibration mic on top of my couch right where my ears would be and did not use a boom mic stand. Would this really make a difference? I have a cloth couch which should not reflect much sound. I dont have a boom mic but i do have a tripod. Should I try this instead? I just went to best buy's magnolia room and tested Marantz receivers to others. I know what people mean by they sound warm. The sound was very balanced with no noticeable distortion. The sales rep also tested a Yamaha receiver and it sounded just as bright as my Onkyo. I ordered the Marantz. Didn't have it in stock. Have to wait until the 21st to pick it up. I think that will definitely help with music. I just hope I don't have those same dialog issues with movies.
The cushions (and thus the microphone) will vibrate due to the sounds, introducing some anomalies. Whether they're enough to be audible to you, I dunno. Another advantage of a boom microphone stand (which costs only about $20-$30: *much* less than your investment in an AVR) is that you can position the microphone more accurately and reproducibly when repeating a calibration for whatever reason.

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post #12 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 09:47 AM
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You go with the 7009 or? As you didnt say...

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post #13 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 10:10 AM
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here is what i believe the problem is, and how you can fix it. horn speakers are designed to naturally roll off significantly after about 10k. in the early klipsch speakers if you measure you will see this significant roll off. in the newer speakers, you wont see this roll off. they are fairly flat to about 17k.
my belief is that they have circuitry in the speaker system that boosts the highs but introduces some nasty peaks in the most crititcal area, that makes the speakers just painful to listen to.

case in point. i have KG 5.2s(which are better than the r26f they replaced). i hadnt used them for a while. ive been using epics and fortes. well i hooked them up to sell and thought i would play around with them and measure them in REW- the results were disturbing.

1. there is no soundstage. you cannot hear the soundstage at all. the reason is of course, lowend sounds reverberate more than high end sounds so if the high end sounds covers the low end, you wont hear the low end reverb which imo is where the soundstage comes from.

2. they are peaky- listening to a guitar quartet, instead of hearing the guitar, almost all you could hear is the picking and the scratching of the guitar strings. just odd

3. they are painful to listen to- i couldnt listen to them for more than 5 minutes before i would have actual ear pain.

i graphed it up in rew and wouldnt you know, they have an ugly 10DB !!!! peak around 6-8k that was causing all this.
i did the auto eq, put the settings in my preamp and tried again, and voila - beautiful sound- amazing soundstage and just as smooth as my epics.

so the problem is the ugly peaks between 6-8k, the solution is a good room eq system that will remove it.eg dirac, audyssey, anthem etc etc
trust me,when you fix this problem you will think you bought new speakers the difference will be that big.
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post #14 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 10:13 AM
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sorry to say though, any receiver that fixes these will be messing with the tone a lot. if you dont have the funds, just be happy with turning down the highs on your current reciever as you are currently doing and at least they'll be listenable.

btw, what model number is your current receiver?

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post #15 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 10:42 AM
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Try Marantz. With klipsch speakers you almost certainly won't need dialogue enhancement features anyway. Get one of last years models with Audyssey XT32.

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post #16 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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My current receiver is an Onkyo TX-NR535. I know I'm going to get flack for this but I purchased the Marantz NR1506 which is their 5.2 receiver with 50w/ch. I have a 5.2 setup (5.1 now. Waiting for new sub to arrive) in a medium sized room and it's perfect. I wouldn't want to upgrade. Marantz only has five receivers in their current line, one is a 9.2, and the other three are 7.2. I don't want to get into a wattage war. My speakers are very efficient and at 30 watts I'm getting 105 decibels from my fronts and 108 from the center. Well, according to paper. My SPL meter read 115 at my usual listening volume which isn't nearly maxed out for my current receiver at 65 wpc. I'm not trying to fill an amphitheatre and would not need more than that. So even at 60% power on the Marantz I will get more than enough volume. This will not tax my receivers power demands nor drive my speakers to the point of distortion or clipping. I had an 80 wpc Onkyo and my current 65 wpc Onkyo and the 65 wpc receiver sounds much better. The rep sampled the NR1506 along with the SR6010 and 7010 to above tolerable levels and I heard no difference. I did hear a HUGE difference with the Yamaha receiver he sampled, however. That sounded very bright and harsh. I know the Marantz I purchased has Auddysey Bronze which is their basic I believe and doesn't have Auddysey XT32. Even the SR5010 at 900 dollars has Auddysey Silver. The only two models that have the XT32 were the 6010 at 1,400 dollars and the 7010 at 2,200 dollars. Not going there. Would that really make that much of a difference? I can manually set my speaker size, crossover, distance, tone, and levels. Apart from that is Auddysey really improving the sound that much? With Auddyseys MultEQ, DynamicEQ, and Dynamic Volume options, should I turn these on or off when I connect my receiver? I would think the less processing the better. I am a minimalist which is why I also opted for the NR1506. I don't need Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, all those extra channels, etc... I figure more bells and whistles is just more that can go wrong with the receiver. As long as it has DTS-HD, DolbyHD, and stereo modes, a good DAC, and 5.2 channels then I am happy. Of course it must produce excellent sound as well which is the most important factor and all signs are pointing to Marantz for the best sound output and it sounded the same to me when I compared Marantz to different receivers earlier. Here is a picture of my setup and my listening position. My center channel is perfectly center for the gentleman who asked earlier. I will see how my speakers sound with the new receiver. They sounded great with B&W's in best buy and I'm sure they weren't even calibrated properly. I really hope I don't have to replace my speakers.
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post #17 of 80 Old 01-17-2016, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFriden View Post
I did hear a HUGE difference with the Yamaha receiver he sampled, however. That sounded very bright and harsh. I know the Marantz I purchased has Auddysey Bronze which is their basic I believe and doesn't have Auddysey XT32. Even the SR5010 at 900 dollars has Auddysey Silver. The only two models that have the XT32 were the 6010 at 1,400 dollars and the 7010 at 2,200 dollars. Not going there. Would that really make that much of a difference?
XT32 can make a substantial difference in the resulting audio quality. The technical addendum to the Audyssey 101/FAQ that's available here on AVS describes the differences. Receivers from previous years (hence much less expensive) have XT32, too, but if you want 4K compatibility, you need one from 2015.

Quote:
I can manually set my speaker size, crossover, distance, tone, and levels. Apart from that is Auddysey really improving the sound that much?
Yes. It can significantly reduce the audio distortions caused by room acoustics.
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With Auddyseys MultEQ, DynamicEQ, and Dynamic Volume options, should I turn these on or off when I connect my receiver?
They aren't immediately available when you connect the receiver. They won't be available until you run the Audyssey calibration. Audyssey's room EQ functionality usually helps a lot. The use of the other features is very much a personal decision. Please look through the FAQ linked above. It discusses them all in detail.
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I would think the less processing the better.
That's very much a personal choice. You should listen to the results of the calibration before making your decision.
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I am a minimalist which is why I also opted for the NR1506. I don't need Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, all those extra channels, etc... I figure more bells and whistles is just more that can go wrong with the receiver.
In that case, unless you're planning for a full 4K video system, you should seriously consider AVR models from previous years. An older model with XT32 would be much less expensive than a current (2015) model.
Quote:
As long as it has DTS-HD, DolbyHD, and stereo modes, a good DAC, and 5.2 channels then I am happy. Of course it must produce excellent sound as well which is the most important factor and all signs are pointing to Marantz for the best sound output and it sounded the same to me when I compared Marantz to different receivers earlier. Here is a picture of my setup and my listening position. My center channel is perfectly center for the gentleman who asked earlier. I will see how my speakers sound with the new receiver. They sounded great with B&W's in best buy and I'm sure they weren't even calibrated properly. I really hope I don't have to replace my speakers.
Speakers and room acoustics dominate the quality of the sound you hear. Electronics usually is a distant third, although quality room equalization (like Audyssey) often can make a significant improvement.

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post #18 of 80 Old 01-18-2016, 07:25 AM
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Modern Klipsch speakers are indeed bright compared to much of what is out there. Compare them to just about any British speaker, and you will see a pretty big contrast. B&W, KEF, Mission, and so on are much more reserved in the high end. If you're in a very live room, this will be even more exaggerated.

I think targeting your receiver is not necessarily the solution. Frankly, today's Klipsch is on the lower end in my opinion. I'm often surprised with how they're paired with some quite expensive receivers.

I think money spent upgrading to a higher end speaker would yield much better results.
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post #19 of 80 Old 01-18-2016, 07:25 AM
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Could be the speakers are the issue.

Modern Klipsch speakers are indeed bright compared to much of what is out there. Compare them to just about any British speaker, and you will see a pretty big contrast. B&W, KEF, Mission, and so on are much more reserved in the high end. If you're in a very live room, this will be even more exaggerated.

I think targeting your receiver is not necessarily the solution. Frankly, today's Klipsch is on the lower end in my opinion. I'm often surprised with how they're paired with some quite expensive receivers.

I think money spent upgrading to a higher end speaker would yield much better results.
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post #20 of 80 Old 01-18-2016, 07:35 AM
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Anthem

I would highly recommend an Anthem receiver. Its ARC room correction software is light years ahead of Audessey and comes with its own individually calibrated microphone. The program runs on a laptop, giving it far more computing power than any non-professionally installed Audessey setup, and you can choose the maximum frequency that is corrected. I have had a couple of flagship Denon receivers and a Harmon Kardon, and none of them came close to what the Anthem MRX can do. They just came out with new models that include Dolbt Atmos, so you can probably find a great deal on the previous models. Check out the ARC review in the link:

http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/a...system-part-1/
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post #21 of 80 Old 01-18-2016, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFriden View Post
My current receiver is an Onkyo TX-NR535. I know I'm going to get flack for this but I purchased the Marantz NR1506 which is their 5.2 receiver with 50w/ch.
Please report back on your experiences with this unit. This is my target price point as I look to replace a Pioneer vsx1024k. Like yourself, I'm not filling a large room, and I have a 5.1 setup, so I don't need to blow the doors off or anything. I suspect it's fair to say I'm gunning for quality over quantity, in a manner of speaking. Thanks for your time! Oh, and if you don't mind me asking, did you have to pay the $500 list?
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post #22 of 80 Old 01-18-2016, 07:40 AM
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Simplest and probably the most effective solution is to try out different speakers.
Horn tweeters are not for everyone.

A lot of people like the sound of speakers that utilize direct firing domes instead of horns.
I know I do.
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post #23 of 80 Old 01-18-2016, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by livengood1 View Post
I would highly recommend an Anthem receiver. Its ARC room correction software is light years ahead of Audessey and comes with its own individually calibrated microphone. The program runs on a laptop, giving it far more computing power than any non-professionally installed Audessey setup, and you can choose the maximum frequency that is corrected. I have had a couple of flagship Denon receivers and a Harmon Kardon, and none of them came close to what the Anthem MRX can do. They just came out with new models that include Dolbt Atmos, so you can probably find a great deal on the previous models. Check out the ARC review in the link:

http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/a...system-part-1/
I own denon 75w x 6 denon receiver and still using it to power klipsch rf35s r25c center rsx5 rears and kv3 center back speaker. Have r12sw sub. This setup powers my 125w rf35s with ease at -10 db below reference. If you want to see the size of the room type in YouTube gereral1 and goto hometheater101 to see the video. Denon produces perfect audio with klipsch speakers. As for premiere I tested the fronts and center with the new rubber tweater design and did not notice any difference! The rf35s sound identical to them and so do rf2 series. I spent hrs testing between the 2. As for the r25c vs the premiere center 2 woofer I could not tell any difference in the voices. I tried eagles, phantom of the opera and both sounded the same. I bought the r25c took it home and compar s my kv3 center to the r25c and it was night and day. The kv3 did not handle high volume voice material as well as the r25c. Maybe some of this info will help out users. I bought the denon amp in 2003 and still am perfectly happy with it and everyone I invited over is amazed at 75w power at -10db below reference
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post #24 of 80 Old 01-18-2016, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
sorry to say though, any receiver that fixes these will be messing with the tone a lot. if you dont have the funds, just be happy with turning down the highs on your current reciever as you are currently doing and at least they'll be listenable.

btw, what model number is your current receiver?
With my hearing loss, I would love to have excessive highs in my system. I too run an Onkyo (TX-NR626) and Klipsch speakers in a 7.1 setup. The theater room is 30 by 17 with a 12 foot high side sloping ceiling. I have great volume but had to set the levels manually as Audyssey has always failed on one speaker. Never found the reason for it..switching wires did not correct it nor did switching speakers, Even switched receivers, same results. So the p/u mic stays in the drawer.

Anywho....I have considered a different receiver, even though I like the Onkyo.

I will follow this thread closely as it hit close to home, but on the opposite side of the listening spectrum, but I suspect some solutions to *my* issues will be solved by this one!

MC
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post #25 of 80 Old 01-18-2016, 08:03 AM
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Have you considered using an external amplifier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFriden View Post
I have Klipsch Reference Pemiere front, center, and surrounds. I mainly got them for Home Theatre use but I do listen to a lot of music. I figured if Klipsch is good enough for commercial theatres then it's good enough for my home. I went to an audio store, did a demo, and they sounded crystal clear. I knew those were the speakers I wanted. I know Klipsch are known to be bright. I have them connected to an Onkyo receiver. The speakers are already broken in. Hundreds of hours of listening time so far and receiver is perfectly calibrated with speaker size, distance, crossover, level, tone. These speakers sounds very bright and not natural like I heard in the audio store. Even Klipsch described these speakers as having the most natural sound possible and not sounding as bright as their previous lines. The professional reviews on these speakers were all very positive.

Upon research, I found that Onkyo receivers produce a very bright sound. I have seen other threads where people had the same issues with Onkyo/Klipsch pairings. Most of the comments said that these two are a horrible combination. If I turn the treble all the way down it does sound better but I would prefer to these speakers paired with a receiver that produces a warmer sound without having to mess with the tone too much. Most forums I read stated that Marantz produces the best receivers on the market and produce a very warm sound and don't sound bright like Onkyos. Prior to dropping the money (because I'm not replacing my speakers which I just spent thousands on) do you feel like switching receivers from Onkyo to Marantz would make a noticeable difference in sound quality? I'm not sure which receiver the audio salesman was using but I'm sure in a high end audio store it was probably a 1,500+ receiver with features I will never use and wattage I don't need. Any advice would be welcome. Thanks. There is actually another issue I'd like to address but this post is too long already. I'll write it in another one.
I am using Von Schweikert speakers with a B&W Center speaker, with an Integra receiver. (I know this is not Klipsch, but at least the Integra has the Onkyo sound) I am using my preamp outputs to drive my L R mains with an older Rotel amp. I find the sound warmer and fuller with my outboard amp driving at least the L and R main speakers.
I see that your receiver has preamp outputs for the left and right main channels. You could experiment with an outboard amplifier driving the L R mains to see if the amp/speaker combination would result in less brightness. I have found amplifiers to make a difference in the final sound.
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post #26 of 80 Old 01-18-2016, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zpatter1 View Post
Try Marantz. With klipsch speakers you almost certainly won't need dialogue enhancement features anyway. Get one of last years models with Audyssey XT32.
I agree with this as well. I think they offer the best product for the money currently on the market. Marantz is now part of the Denon family and Marantz is their top of the line product, like Cadillac is to Chevrolet. Denon has always been known as a high quality company with very musical presence.

I have their CD player model CD5003 (which is an older version of their new CD6005) and it is the best sounding CD player I've ever had, and it has a tube like warmth to the sound which also gives it a very musical sound quality to it.

As far as receivers go they have several model lines depending on how much you want to spend, you won't go wrong with any of their receivers. The receivers are all built with the same tilt toward that tube like sound and musical quality like their CD players. They also have a very lifelike sound stage in stereo mode with instruments coming from where you would expect them too and where the band wanted each sound to come from, plus it extends that soundstage into movies with surround sound. Personally I don't like surround sound for music because I not playing in the band, I'm listening to the band out in front of them...but I'm weird for thinking that way. They start at $499 and go all the way up to $2199 retail of course, a little searching you'll find them less than retail.
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post #27 of 80 Old 01-18-2016, 08:08 AM
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call me cheap

I have Klipsch speakers and I'm using a Yamaha RX-V367 in my media room.

Sounds fantastic and also does great as a switcher between various hdmi inputs.
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post #28 of 80 Old 01-18-2016, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFriden View Post
I actually just researched Pioneer Elite receivers and they have an option called "Dialogue Enhancement" which states it improves the clarity of dialogue during movie playback. This may give me the same clarity from my center channel during home theatre use like my Onkyo with AccuEQ but with better overall sound coming from a supposedly better receiver. Has anyone had any experience with Pioneer Elite? How is their sound compared to others?

My Onkyo is a 2014 model. I don't care about Atmos or any other fancy bells and whistles. I'm sticking with my 5.2 for my medium sized room. I just need a receiver with very good sound output. As long as it had DTS-HD master and DolbyHD codecs, a good DAC, and stereo mode for music then I'm satisfied.
I don't know where you are at right now but I might have some helpful information. I currently have a Pioneer VSX-1123. It is a good receiver, not a Pioneer Elite but pretty solid overall. I have CMT-340SE and some Klipsch 28f that a buddy wanted to hear in my room. I've been craving a better receiver so I tested the Marantz 5010 at home. The dialogue was clear but it certainly wasn't as warm as the Pioneer. I heard both sets of speakers on both receivers and long term listening everyone in the house preferred the Pioneer over the Marantz. Both had been calibrated appropriately. The Marantz after long listening sessions were fatiguing, even on the very natural and flat response of the CMT-340SE.

That being said I made the decision to return the Marantz and with a good deal on the Pioneer Elite SC-95 I'll be going that route. I can update you further when it arrive son Tuesday if you would like.
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post #29 of 80 Old 01-18-2016, 08:45 AM
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I have Kplisch K-Horns(1983 vintage)as my fronts with a Polk cs-10 center channel(running a 2.1 a/c no subwoofers needed with K-horns) I also have an Onkyo TX-NR838(2014) I set up the AVR with the mic(I mainly use the system for music but since I got the Onkyo 11/15 all my TV and Streaming also)This is best the K-horns have sounded in years and with the adding of the center channel(01/16) dialog is heard perfectly with the effects and background ambience coming from the K-horns.I'm getting NO BRIGHTNESS just accurate portrayal of what i'm listening to.As you probably know after Paul Kplisch died the company was sold and moved from Hope Ark. to Indianapolis and is now owned by VOXX.I have heard Klipsch Surrounds (the larger ones than yours)and they sounded great but the listening was in a dedicated room.not like how bestbuy,greg etc sets them up on a wall.Almost forgot my Onkyo838 is connected to a Yamaha 150WPC amp(thats powering the K-Horns,The Center Channel is powered by the Onkyo838)

Last edited by Timbo5; 01-18-2016 at 08:53 AM. Reason: forgot somthing
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post #30 of 80 Old 01-18-2016, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFriden View Post
I have Klipsch Reference Pemiere front, center, and surrounds. I mainly got them for Home Theatre use but I do listen to a lot of music. I figured if Klipsch is good enough for commercial theatres then it's good enough for my home. I went to an audio store, did a demo, and they sounded crystal clear. I knew those were the speakers I wanted. I know Klipsch are known to be bright. I have them connected to an Onkyo receiver. The speakers are already broken in. Hundreds of hours of listening time so far and receiver is perfectly calibrated with speaker size, distance, crossover, level, tone. These speakers sounds very bright and not natural like I heard in the audio store. Even Klipsch described these speakers as having the most natural sound possible and not sounding as bright as their previous lines. The professional reviews on these speakers were all very positive.

Upon research, I found that Onkyo receivers produce a very bright sound. I have seen other threads where people had the same issues with Onkyo/Klipsch pairings. Most of the comments said that these two are a horrible combination. If I turn the treble all the way down it does sound better but I would prefer to these speakers paired with a receiver that produces a warmer sound without having to mess with the tone too much. Most forums I read stated that Marantz produces the best receivers on the market and produce a very warm sound and don't sound bright like Onkyos. Prior to dropping the money (because I'm not replacing my speakers which I just spent thousands on) do you feel like switching receivers from Onkyo to Marantz would make a noticeable difference in sound quality? I'm not sure which receiver the audio salesman was using but I'm sure in a high end audio store it was probably a 1,500+ receiver with features I will never use and wattage I don't need. Any advice would be welcome. Thanks. There is actually another issue I'd like to address but this post is too long already. I'll write it in another one.
Why not go back to your audio store and have them demo several different receivers connected to your brand of speakers?
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