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post #1 of 24 Old 01-25-2016, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Need help with Dennon X2200W Set up

Guys,

Just started using Dennon X2200W AVR connected to my laptop, projector and 5.1 system. I have already run Auddyssey set up and following are the readings :
- Front L => -2.5 db
- Center => -3.0 db
- Front R => - 2.0 db
- SS R => - 3.0 db
- SS L => -5.0 db
- Subwoofer => -12.0 db

1) Do these settings make sense to you? Do you think -12 db for HT system is way too low. In other words, Bass will go unnoticed.
2)When I am playing the video, I get an option of Channel Level Adjust under which I can adjust the volume of any of the speakers mentioned abobe -12 db to 12 db. However, change here does not have any impact on Audyssey saved results. I guess my question is how this menu different that Audyssey?
3) Under Audio, there is an option for subwoofer level adjust where I can adjust subwoofer again -12 db to 12 db. Again, how is the level adjustment different than the 2 mentioned above.

I want to know what is difference among these 3 menus. And after running Audyssey, what should be the values of all speakers under Menu 2 and Menu 3 mentioned above.
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post #2 of 24 Old 01-25-2016, 11:11 PM
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Subwoofer amp volume is too high. Turn it down some and rerun audyssey.
The speaker level is a global setting and the option/level is for that input only.
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post #3 of 24 Old 01-26-2016, 06:12 AM
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This and many other questions are answered in the Audyssey 101/FAQ ( <-- link) that's here on AVS. The instructions in the receiver's manual are disappointingly inadequate.

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post #4 of 24 Old 01-26-2016, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jb00070 View Post
Guys,

Just started using Dennon X2200W AVR connected to my laptop, projector and 5.1 system. I have already run Auddyssey set up and following are the readings :
- Front L => -2.5 db
- Center => -3.0 db
- Front R => - 2.0 db
- SS R => - 3.0 db
- SS L => -5.0 db
- Subwoofer => -12.0 db

1) Do these settings make sense to you? Do you think -12 db for HT system is way too low. In other words, Bass will go unnoticed.
2)When I am playing the video, I get an option of Channel Level Adjust under which I can adjust the volume of any of the speakers mentioned abobe -12 db to 12 db. However, change here does not have any impact on Audyssey saved results. I guess my question is how this menu different that Audyssey?
3) Under Audio, there is an option for subwoofer level adjust where I can adjust subwoofer again -12 db to 12 db. Again, how is the level adjustment different than the 2 mentioned above.

I want to know what is difference among these 3 menus. And after running Audyssey, what should be the values of all speakers under Menu 2 and Menu 3 mentioned above.
1. All but the subwoofer. Lower the gain knob on the sub to about 9 o'clock and run Audyssey again as the gain is currently set to high. You want the subwoofer level to be set to about -5db to -8db after running Audyssey which you will then likely want to increase +5db using the Manual Setup - Test Tones - Subwoofer on the X2200W.
2. Channel Level Adjust only effects that specific source currently selected. Use Manual Setup - Test Tones for global changes across all sources.
3. Do not use this, rather use the Manual Setup - Test Tones instead.

For more helpful information on setting up and troubleshooting issues (including why you don't want to use the Subwoofer Level Adjust setting listed in the post 4 issues) on your X2200W, refer to posts 3-6 in the 2015 Denon AVR Owner's thread linked below ...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post34728793
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post #5 of 24 Old 01-26-2016, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post
Subwoofer amp volume is too high. Turn it down some and rerun audyssey.
The speaker level is a global setting and the option/level is for that input only.
Sub woofer volume is minus12. Is that high?

Can you please elaborate by what do you mean by global settings and how are these different from Audyssey numbers? Do I need to touch these?
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post #6 of 24 Old 01-26-2016, 09:30 AM
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^Explained in excellent fashion post #4 .
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post #7 of 24 Old 01-26-2016, 06:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jb00070 View Post
Sub woofer volume is minus12. Is that high?

Can you please elaborate by what do you mean by global settings and how are these different from Audyssey numbers? Do I need to touch these?
The subwoofer channel level being -12 means your avr is trying to turn it down....a lot. The "volume" on your sub (a gain control) is set too high.

Global settings are those that affect your speaker settings in all modes. Audyssey calibration is a combined setup routine to determine level and delay (distance) as well as a suggested equalization. Generally you can change things like level and delay without conflict with Audyssey eq, but generally cannot adjust eq of the Audyssey calibration (you need to turn the Audyssey setting off to adjust eq).
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post #8 of 24 Old 01-26-2016, 07:14 PM
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I found batpig's Denon setup guide very helpful:

http://batpigworld.com/wp/
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post #9 of 24 Old 01-26-2016, 11:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you er824. batpig website indeed is very helpful. However, the step below has made me even more confused. Batpig says that CHANNEL LEVEL ADJUSTMENT is almost mandatory after running Audyssey, and one needs to do it using SPL meter. My questions is why do we need to do this adjustment for speaker balancing when Audyssey should have already taken care of it? Or is it still needed? If yes then why (what is the point of Audyssey calibration)? Any SPL meter that you guys recommend and if you could share a post on how to use it for speaker balancing. Below is the excerpt from Batpig that I am refering to:



"After running Audyssey, next is set your speaker distances using the DISTANCE menu. Whip out the tape measure, pick a central primary listening spot, and measure the distance to all of your speakers. This is an important step, and is less about physical distance than it is about time alignment, i.e. making sure all the sound gets to your listening spot at the correct time.

Next, you must balance your speaker output using the CHANNEL LEVEL menu. Select your preference for the test tones, "Auto" (the speaker test tone will cycle continuously through all of your speakers) or "Manual" (you control which speaker is outputting the test tone). Then, scroll down to "Start" and hit the LEFT arrow to begin.

If you have selected "Manual", you can cycle the tones among the speakers by pressing UP or DOWN on the directional pad. To adjust the volume of a particular speaker, press LEFT or RIGHT.

HELPFUL HINT: While you can get decent results "by ear", it is much more accurate to do this using a Sound Pressure Level (SPL) meter, which you can buy at Radio Shack. It is very important for the surround mix that your speaker levels be balanced correctly!"


Thank you all for your help!
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post #10 of 24 Old 01-26-2016, 11:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
The subwoofer channel level being -12 means your avr is trying to turn it down....a lot. The "volume" on your sub (a gain control) is set too high.

Global settings are those that affect your speaker settings in all modes. Audyssey calibration is a combined setup routine to determine level and delay (distance) as well as a suggested equalization. Generally you can change things like level and delay without conflict with Audyssey eq, but generally cannot adjust eq of the Audyssey calibration (you need to turn the Audyssey setting off to adjust eq).
My subwoofer is set to 9 o'clock position. (line on the gain control knob is pointing towards 9 position in the clock. It is right in the middle of Medium and Low volume at the back of subwoofer. Despite of this, Audyssey is still giving me -12 sb for Sub and 40 Hz Crossover frequency.

Most of my use is watching action and horror movies therefore good bass and surround sound is an absolute requirement for me.
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post #11 of 24 Old 01-26-2016, 11:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jb00070 View Post
My subwoofer is set to 9 o'clock position. (line on the gain control knob is pointing towards 9 position in the clock. It is right in the middle of Medium and Low volume at the back of subwoofer. Despite of this, Audyssey is still giving me -12 sb for Sub and 40 Hz Crossover frequency.

Most of my use is watching action and horror movies therefore good bass and surround sound is an absolute requirement for me.
Try it a bit below 9 o'clock until you get a reading of -11 or better. To make it faster you could do just the first round of Audyssey with the mic rather than all seating positions as the key measurements are taken in the first mic position. 40 hz crossover for all speakers? Are all speakers set to small?
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post #12 of 24 Old 01-26-2016, 11:32 PM
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set it to 8 o'clock or a little lower then run audyssey again for just one position. If the results are satisfactory then run the rest of the positions. You've got it get it off the -12 reading.

May I ask what subwoofer you have?

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post #13 of 24 Old 01-27-2016, 05:28 AM
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In general, manually setting speaker distances and levels only needs to be done for systems *without* a roomEQ system like Audyssey. Audyssey usually does an excellent job of determining speaker distances and sound levels. Please take the time to look through the Audyssey 101/FAQ. It discusses these issues and many others.

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post #14 of 24 Old 01-27-2016, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Try it a bit below 9 o'clock until you get a reading of -11 or better. To make it faster you could do just the first round of Audyssey with the mic rather than all seating positions as the key measurements are taken in the first mic position. 40 hz crossover for all speakers? Are all speakers set to small?
40 Hz Crossover for all Front speakers and 60 Hz for surrounds. It is 5.1 system.
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post #15 of 24 Old 01-27-2016, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
set it to 8 o'clock or a little lower then run audyssey again for just one position. If the results are satisfactory then run the rest of the positions. You've got it get it off the -12 reading.

May I ask what subwoofer you have?
Subwoofer is HSU VTF-2 MK4.

Room size is 12 x 15.

I am not getting an option where I can stop Audyssey only afetr 1st seating position. It forces me to run the software for all 8 positions,
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post #16 of 24 Old 01-27-2016, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
set it to 8 o'clock or a little lower then run audyssey again for just one position. If the results are satisfactory then run the rest of the positions. You've got it get it off the -12 reading.

May I ask what subwoofer you have?
One more question. Why do I need to get subwoofer Audyssey setting down to -11 or less from current setting of -12. Just wondering.
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post #17 of 24 Old 01-27-2016, 08:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jb00070 View Post
Subwoofer is HSU VTF-2 MK4.

Room size is 12 x 15.

I am not getting an option where I can stop Audyssey only afetr 1st seating position. It forces me to run the software for all 8 positions,
The forcing all 8 positions doesn't sound right, haven't had that on my Denon or Onkyo units with Audyssey. There was an option to stop and calculate or some such message at the bottom of the page as you setup for another mic position or not. I've not seen the ambient noise message before, I have had warnings my sub level was too low; for the sub in the first step, does it ask you to calibrate the sub to 75dB?

ps Your noise floor without measuring gear can be hard to determine
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post #18 of 24 Old 01-27-2016, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Jb00070 View Post
One more question. Why do I need to get subwoofer Audyssey setting down to -11 or less from current setting of -12. Just wondering.
-12dB is the most attenuation that Audyssey can apply in D+M equipment. When it's pegged at that value there's no way to know if it might actually need to be -24dB. Also, when the audio is that faint, it might not always trigger the subwoofer's "auto-on" feature.

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post #19 of 24 Old 01-27-2016, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
set it to 8 o'clock or a little lower then run audyssey again for just one position. If the results are satisfactory then run the rest of the positions. You've got it get it off the -12 reading.

May I ask what subwoofer you have?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jb00070 View Post

I am not getting an option where I can stop Audyssey only afetr 1st seating position. It forces me to run the software for all 8 positions,

2015 D+M AVRs require at least a 3 mic position minimum before being able to stop the process.
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post #20 of 24 Old 01-28-2016, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys,

As I am still struggling to calibrate my speakers system (Audyssey/ Channel level set up etc.), I have another fish to fry and if you could please help with it. My media room is a mess right now with wires laying all over.
I need to wall mount all my speakers and I have all the gear. I have only one question for you guys:

- How to determine the position (distance from each other and sitting position) for these 5.1 speakers. Once installed, it will be a paint to change the positions since I will be routing wires through the wall.


Thanks so much!
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post #21 of 24 Old 01-28-2016, 08:24 AM
 
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So your speakers aren't even in place yet when you were running Audyssey? Where were they?

You're going to need to diagram your room and furniture or supply photos or something for speaker positioning help. Have you used the diagrams available at Dolby and THX for starters?
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post #22 of 24 Old 08-07-2016, 08:22 AM
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Quick thread resurrection, since it's kinda/sorta on-topic... also running a 2200, with the LFE Out running into an unbalanced miniDSP feeding two ~150Wish amps each driving Anarchy THs.

With the amps set WFO, the Audyssey setting says it has the sub channel at -0.5 ...sound is better than "okay", but definitely not running the amps to full power (according to their meters) and some dynamics (explosions, gunshots) could be improved.

Quote:
You want the subwoofer level to be set to about -5db to -8db after running Audyssey
Re: that comment- is it more important to have the Audyssey results within that range, or just within the range that Audyssey can adjust for?

I suspect that the unbalanced miniDSP is holding the amps back (6dB insertion loss IIRC) but I can't run the THs without a highpass... don't want to spend "money for nuthin'", but I'm halfway hoping this is justification to pick up a balanced miniDSP for more low-end pizzazz

TIA for any feedback-

Ed

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post #23 of 24 Old 08-08-2016, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ejh2854 View Post
Quick thread resurrection, since it's kinda/sorta on-topic... also running a 2200, with the LFE Out running into an unbalanced miniDSP feeding two ~150Wish amps each driving Anarchy THs.

With the amps set WFO, the Audyssey setting says it has the sub channel at -0.5 ...sound is better than "okay", but definitely not running the amps to full power (according to their meters) and some dynamics (explosions, gunshots) could be improved.

Re: that comment- is it more important to have the Audyssey results within that range, or just within the range that Audyssey can adjust for?

I suspect that the unbalanced miniDSP is holding the amps back (6dB insertion loss IIRC) but I can't run the THs without a highpass... don't want to spend "money for nuthin'", but I'm halfway hoping this is justification to pick up a balanced miniDSP for more low-end pizzazz

TIA for any feedback-

Ed

.
Audyssey's adjustment range is +/- 12dB on D+M equipment. The idea of having the subwoofer's calibration be in the mid-negative numbers is both to have the Denon's subwoofer output signal be high enough that it'll trigger the sub's auto-on feature and have it be low enough that the output signal won't cause clipping in the MiniDSP and in the sub's amp when you turn up the trim level manually to raise the sub's total output.
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post #24 of 24 Old 08-08-2016, 10:42 AM
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Thanks for the fast reply! ...the insertion-loss "issue" alone is justification enough to buy another miniDSP but it's good to know that I'll be moving in the right direction.

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