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post #271 of 4251 Old 02-04-2016, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
Now that the DTS:X|Neural:X firmware is in play, I'd like to hear about results of playing one of the four legacy DTS-HDMA|7.1+Neo:X|11.1 encoded BDs using DTS Neural:X on either an x.x.2 or x.x.4 configuration. And I'd be particularly interested in comments concerning comparisons of Neo:X and Neural:X performance on 5.x.2 and 7.x.2 setups.



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I'm sorta surprised nobody has done just that yet. First one I'd try would be Dredd. Sho nuff.
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post #272 of 4251 Old 02-04-2016, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
Now that the DTS:X|Neural:X firmware is in play, I'd like to hear about results of playing one of the four legacy DTS-HDMA|7.1+Neo:X|11.1 encoded BDs using DTS Neural:X on either an x.x.2 or x.x.4 configuration. And I'd be particularly interested in comments concerning comparisons of Neo:X and Neural:X performance on 5.x.2 and 7.x.2 setups.



_
AFAIK once you updated to DTS:X you loose Neo:X so I don't think a comparison is possible.
Unless you had 2 AVR's and one hasn't been upgraded.
Edit: Or listen in Neo:X before updating but by the time you did that your audio memory is gone.

Last edited by Lesmor; 02-04-2016 at 09:35 AM.
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post #273 of 4251 Old 02-04-2016, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post
My Quick Stupid Uneducated Opinion of Dts:x:

I have no horse in this race. I could care less if Dolby is better than DTS or vice versa. I only watched 1 movie so far, going back and fourth comparing the more audibly intensive scenes.

After updating my 7200wa, I'd say it's far too early to say if Dts:x is better or worse than Atmos due to lack of material, so this is about Dolby Surround vs Neural:X.

I watched a Blu-ray of a British horror movie called Howl the was just released (decent cheap werewolf flick btw). The audio on it is a 5.1 TrueHD track, which was pretty impressive in it's mix given it's low budget. Luckily it turned out to be the perfect disc to demo this on because they did a great job of placing the howls in random speakers.

I gotta say I was thoroughly surprised and impressed with Neural:X. Dolby Surround did a good job of making it seem like there was more sound coming out of the overheads, but Neural:X somehow managed to make it seem like this audio track was mixed with overhead speakers in mind.

The best example I can give is there was a point in the movie where someone is walking outside, unaware of werewolfs watching them. With Dolby Surround you heard an good mix of creepy sounds that one would hear outside plus a subtle howl in the front left overhead speaker. With Neural:X the random creepy sounds were less with the overheads speakers, but the howl was far more distinct and present. There were several scenes like this where Neural:X seemed to take a more subtle approach, only to hit a home run when it was used. In comparison, Dolby Surround seemed like it was just loading the overheads with sounds from the surrounds; more noise, but FAR less calculated. In the end I felt like the Neural:X won because it seemed like the overheads were used more appropriately. This could be the case for only this movie though. I hope to be able to compare a few more discs this weekend.
Actually, in the past when I would compare DPLII vs. Neo6 I would get that same kind of experience list into two channel stereo/surround sources. It's as if Neo6 created subtly more detailed sounds and the speakers with less obvious noise given the audio track on more of a discrete audio track. Where as DPLII seem to add more ambience/atmosphere sound which seem to hide or mask the detailed sounds that I could hear using Neo6. So when list into two channel TV or movies I always preferred using Neo6 over DPLII. I think DTS has a better handle on creating a more discreet sound field compared to Dolby. The only downside I would experience with Neo6 was occasionally dialogue would bleed over into the left or right and sometimes surround speakers which would not happen with DPLII. With NeoX they were able to eliminate the dialogue bleeding into other channels While keeping that simulated discrete sounds thankfully. So I preferred NeoX over DPLIIx. But that's just my opinion from my listening experience. So maybe Neural:X carries on with that way of directing sounds.
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post #274 of 4251 Old 02-04-2016, 10:26 AM
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If it's a Lions Gate film they down grade the rentals. You can rent from 3D rentals. You can google it to get the exact link. They rent full retail versions not the rental version.
http://www.store-3d-blurayrental.com/

For $6.99 a month, 2 rental per month it is a decent deal. They have higher rental plans as well but that covers lionsgate rentals for me to go along with netflix.
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post #275 of 4251 Old 02-04-2016, 11:12 AM
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It seems to me that it's fairly safe to conclude at this point that Neural:X is more aggressive about steering sounds than DSU. And it sounds like this generally is a good thing for multich upmix for those who like to hear heavier action in the height channels, but may not be a good thing for 2ch music upmix where some have reported strange artifacts (vocals bleeding) in the surrounds.

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post #276 of 4251 Old 02-04-2016, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
It seems to me that it's fairly safe to conclude at this point that Neural:X is more aggressive about steering sounds than DSU. And it sounds like this generally is a good thing for multich upmix for those who like to hear heavier action in the height channels, but may not be a good thing for 2ch music upmix where some have reported strange artifacts (vocals bleeding) in the surrounds.
Yup. Also, in the first flush of enthusiasm, mo' sound up top = mo' better might be attractive initially, but may become wearing over time. It does seems as though Neural:X isn't going to be a disappointment though. No idea when my Marantz 7010 is scheduled (in Europe) for the update.
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post #277 of 4251 Old 02-04-2016, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Yup. Also, in the first flush of enthusiasm, mo' sound up top = mo' better might be attractive initially, but may become wearing over time. It does seems as though Neural:X isn't going to be a disappointment though. No idea when my Marantz 7010 is scheduled (in Europe) for the update.
March 3rd AFAICT. Appears to be a single release date worldwide for the 6010, 7010 and AV7702 mkii.
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post #278 of 4251 Old 02-04-2016, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I realized that the (crappy) Sony BDP_S5500 does not decode multi channel PCM when I fiddled a bit over last week end.
I have now moved my (hardly used) good ol Panasonic DMP-BD35 as an addition just for the PCM and doing A/B with DSU and Neural:X
Weekend should be good..
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post #279 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
March 3rd AFAICT. Appears to be a single release date worldwide for the 6010, 7010 and AV7702 mkii.
Cool - thanks for the info. I should have my Samsung UHD player by then too, so a lot to look forward to in March then.
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post #280 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post
http://www.store-3d-blurayrental.com/

For $6.99 a month, 2 rental per month it is a decent deal. They have higher rental plans as well but that covers lionsgate rentals for me to go along with netflix.
My problem with rentals is that it takes me a while to get around to watching a movie. Hell, I just started a movie that I bought 10 years ago. On DVD. In a b&m record store. That's why I tend to buy blu-rays instead of renting them. (Sorry, slightly off topic...)
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post #281 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by scarabaeus View Post
My problem with rentals is that it takes me a while to get around to watching a movie. Hell, I just started a movie that I bought 10 years ago. On DVD. In a b&m record store. That's why I tend to buy blu-rays instead of renting them. (Sorry, slightly off topic...)
hah! I'm the same. I have a pretty good-sized collection of BDs, probably 300-ish, maybe 500-ish, and I've still got well over 100 still in the shrink wrap. Plus a couple dozen HD-DVDs still in their shrink wrap (bought a whole bunch when they were blown out a few years back, like $4 a title).

I bought Lawrence of Arabia on BD the week it was released, one of my favorite movies, and haven't watched it yet...too many other things to do, and I don't know if anyone else is all that interested in seeing it...

Anyway, back on topic: I have not plunged into the Atmos/DTS:X world yet, so I mostly lurk to observe. But I really hope these formats take off, because a more immersive aural experience is always a good thing!

I have a couple of Onkyo 606 receivers that have non-working HDMI. It occurs to me I could use these as "amplifiers" for an 11.2 (7.2.4) pre-pro, and therefore I look forward to the next crop or two of Atmos and DTS:X enabled receivers and processors.

EDIT: oooh, post #3000 for me. Just noting it as a milestone of sorts...

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post #282 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post
The best example I can give is there was a point in the movie where someone is walking outside, unaware of werewolfs watching them. With Dolby Surround you heard an good mix of creepy sounds that one would hear outside plus a subtle howl in the front left overhead speaker. With Neural:X the random creepy sounds were less with the overheads speakers, but the howl was far more distinct and present. There were several scenes like this where Neural:X seemed to take a more subtle approach, only to hit a home run when it was used. In comparison, Dolby Surround seemed like it was just loading the overheads with sounds from the surrounds; more noise, but FAR less calculated. In the end I felt like the Neural:X won because it seemed like the overheads were used more appropriately. This could be the case for only this movie though. I hope to be able to compare a few more discs this weekend.
Interesting. This seems to be at odds with what other people are saying about Neural:X putting more sounds in the heights than DSU. Let us know what happens with other movies when you get a chance.

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Edge of Tomorrow: WOW!!! Now this movie I already considered as having a really good soundtrack but it is absolutely stunning in Neural X. I repeated the segment where Tom Cruise heads out to his first battle up until he dies (for the first time). It starts with helicopters and Neural X executed a perfect right to left overhead pan of a helicopter taking off. It was better than anything I've heard DSU do, and I already thought DSU was great. I was floored throughout that whole first battle scene. Notably, there is a lot of low flying ordinance/artillery. The imaging was near perfect. The artillery was flying over my head and through my theater. I never got such precise imaging with DSU. It really sounded like native Atmos and not just an upmix.

So my unscientific untrained and unsophisticated conclusion based on a few hours of listening is that Neural X is a winner. So far it has impressed me more than DSU which I already though was pretty awesome. DTS X, based on a few scenes of Ex Machina seems just as good, but not better than Atmos.

Neural X does seem to put more in the overheads. It was immediately obvious and maybe a little bit too much in your face like with 300. With DSU, it often seems there's nothing going on up there. I'll have to listen more to figure it out but I'm preferring Neural X now.
Did you try switching your Blu-ray player to PCM output so you could compare DSU with Neural:X in that scene? I'd be curious what happens with regard to that helicopter pan.

Speaking as someone reading this thread with interest but who does not have a DTS:X capable receiver yet, your description here seems to be consistent with the theory that Neural:X behaves a lot like the Auromatic upmixer, and largely copies information from the ground level channels to duplicate it up top. If a 5.1 or 7.1 mix has a lot of activity going on in the left and right and surrounds, that will translate to a lot of activity up above those speakers too.

But, again, I haven't been able to actually hear this for myself yet.

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post #283 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 12:00 PM
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No one seems to have commented yet on wether DTS:X kept the front wide channels. I have downloaded the new firmware and I am leaning to it does not do wides. Of course I am using 7.2.4 so maybe I might have to do 5.2.4 or 7.2.2 to have the front wides available on my Marantz 8802A. Anyone have experience with this yet?

So far I am very impressed with Neural:X. I don't mind one bit that I am limited to using Neural:X with DTS encoded discs and DSU with Dolby encoded discs. With most discs having DTS anyway, Neural:X seems to be a bit better sounding to me so far. I just wonder about changing a few settings to get front wides again. From what I am hearing so far, I can live without them.

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post #284 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 12:33 PM
 
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Quote:
It seems to me that it's fairly safe to conclude at this point that DTS Neural:X is more aggressive about steering sounds than DSU. And it sounds like this generally is a good thing for multich upmix for those who like to hear heavier action in the height channels, but may not be a good thing for 2ch music upmix where some have reported strange artifacts (vocals bleeding) in the surrounds.
I would love to hear more about that...anyone here who can comment, share their impression? ...For stereo and multichannel music ♫ listening.
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post #285 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 12:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by shinksma View Post
hah! I'm the same. I have a pretty good-sized collection of BDs, probably 300-ish, maybe 500-ish, and I've still got well over 100 still in the shrink wrap. Plus a couple dozen HD-DVDs still in their shrink wrap (bought a whole bunch when they were blown out a few years back, like $4 a title).
I bought Lawrence of Arabia on BD the week it was released, one of my favorite movies, and haven't watched it yet...too many other things to do, and I don't know if anyone else is all that interested in seeing it...
Anyway, back on topic: I have not plunged into the Atmos/DTS:X world yet, so I mostly lurk to observe. But I really hope these formats take off, because a more immersive aural experience is always a good thing!
I have a couple of Onkyo 606 receivers that have non-working HDMI. It occurs to me I could use these as "amplifiers" for an 11.2 (7.2.4) pre-pro, and therefore I look forward to the next crop or two of Atmos and DTS:X enabled receivers and processors.


EDIT: oooh, post #3000 for me. Just noting it as a milestone of sorts...
Congrats!
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post #286 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 12:48 PM
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For those that might be interested Ralph Potts just reviewed "The Last Witch Hunter" in DTS:X Audio score 86
Film not so hot

Last edited by Lesmor; 02-05-2016 at 01:37 PM.
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post #287 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by awblackmon View Post
No one seems to have commented yet on wether DTS:X kept the front wide channels. I have downloaded the new firmware and I am leaning to it does not do wides. Of course I am using 7.2.4 so maybe I might have to do 5.2.4 or 7.2.2 to have the front wides available on my Marantz 8802A. Anyone have experience with this yet?
Yes, this has been discussed.

Prior to the update, with Neo:X only able to do wides + front height, it would automatically do "9.1.2" upmix with wides/heights. However, DTS:X/Neural:X is like Atmos in that it prioritizes the 7.1.4 layout, so in order to get the wides to work you have to manually deactive either the S.Back or Height2 speakers in the speaker config.

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post #288 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 01:16 PM
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I panicked a little bit after I did the DTS:X upgrade and put in the Ex Machina BD. I started to hear a " hissing " sound during a quiet scene in the movie. The sound got louder then stopped, then started up again. Turns out that the Surface Pro 4 tablet that was sitting on the couch next to me does updates while it is powered off. The hissing sound I heard was the tiny fan spinning up... which is a known issue when the thing gets updates. LOL It sounds a lot like old school analog tape hiss.
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post #289 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post
For those that might be interested Ralph Potts just reviewed "The Last Witch Hunter" in DTS:X Audio score 96
Film not so hot
Greetings,

Actually, the DTS:X rating is 86. The rating of 96 is for the DTS-HD 7.1 Master Audio core.


Regards,
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post #290 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 01:38 PM
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Greetings,

Actually, the DTS:X rating is 86. The rating of 96 is for the DTS-HD 7.1 Master Audio core.


Regards,
Damn I initially put 86 went back just to be sure then changed it ,what a dick
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post #291 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Yes, this has been discussed.

Prior to the update, with Neo:X only able to do wides + front height, it would automatically do "9.1.2" upmix with wides/heights. However, DTS:X/Neural:X is like Atmos in that it prioritizes the 7.1.4 layout, so in order to get the wides to work you have to manually deactive either the S.Back or Height2 speakers in the speaker config.
Is there a consensus as to whether it's best to keep Wides or Back Surrounds? Sucks we have to choose!
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post #292 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 01:46 PM
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I'd do rear surrounds before wides.

Obviously it depends on the room and seating situation. If for example you sit at the back wall then you won't have room for rear surrounds.
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post #293 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post


Did you try switching your Blu-ray player to PCM output so you could compare DSU with Neural:X in that scene? I'd be curious what happens with regard to that helicopter pan.

Speaking as someone reading this thread with interest but who does not have a DTS:X capable receiver yet, your description here seems to be consistent with the theory that Neural:X behaves a lot like the Auromatic upmixer, and largely copies information from the ground level channels to duplicate it up top. If a 5.1 or 7.1 mix has a lot of activity going on in the left and right and surrounds, that will translate to a lot of activity up above those speakers too.

But, again, I haven't been able to actually hear this for myself yet.
I did do an A/B with PCM out of the player. The difference is much less pronounced than my initial impression. I used the same beach storming scene in Edge of Tomorrow.

The helicopter pan with DSU is much closer to Neural X than I first thought. The Neural X pan was still better. I listened several times to each to put my finger on why I liked the Neural X better: It just sounded more precise. The DSU pan still did a good right to left pan but it sounded much more like ambiance, less pinpoint but the difference is much less dramatic than I first thought. I'm guessing there's plenty of people who would prefer that effect more, less localization, etc. But for me, I do like a little more precision.

The rest of the battle scene had lots of ear level weapon fire. I listened to both upmixers with and without the base 7 channels. I liked the Neural X better. Again it was the precision. It achieved imaging of a shell whizzing just above the left side of my head and landing at some point to the right and in front of me. That scene is full of such weapon fire at or just above ear level. With DSU, the shells whizzing by were more ambient sounding, not as precise.

My initial impression that Neural X puts more in the overheads still stands but on second thought it not as easy as that. It does seem that what it does choose to steer to the overhead is louder. In fact, I had to turn my ceiling speakers levels down with Neural X. I had them +3 db hot from where Audyssey set them for use with Atmos/DSU. Turned it down to +1.5 db because I felt the tops in Neural X were too overwhelming. However, there are points in that beach scene that's not always the case.

1) At one point while they were getting ready to drop out of the copters onto the beach, the copter takes a hit and the soldiers have to prematurely drop. Neural X put tons of very loud crashing noises in the tops. The crashing noises were extremely faint in DSU tops. It choose to leave the majority of that effect in the base layer. Even at that, the base layer crashing noises were not as loud as Neural X effects in the top speakers. It seemed to me that it was exaggerated and a bit excessive.

So it seems easy to conclude Neural X just puts more up there, however:

2) During the battle on the beach, both upmixers placed some shouting and screams in the tops. Typical phrasing and exhortations you'd expect to hear in a frantic battle. DSU in this case put much more into the tops. I could hear many distinct voices and phrases. Specifically, I heard "Let's lock and load" being said from one of the tops. The exact same moment with Neural X, nothing. I dunno, it probably showed up in the base somewhere. I was specifically looking for it in the tops though. Neural choose to make those vocalizations steered into the tops into ambiance, more muffled shouting noises. So pretty much exactly the opposite of how I thought of the helicopter pan.

So this is all based on a 10 minute segment of one movie. I'll have to listen some more but I'm liking Neural X more than DSU right now. I wish I could somehow upmix the Super Bowl in Neural. Have watched tons of football in DSU, would like to compare. Simple summary, both are good. Closer than I originally thought. The things Neural X steers to the tops seem louder. I have no experience with Auro but from descriptions of it, it does not seem like Neural X works that way. The top speakers are not repeating what the base layer is doing.

Last edited by easystar; 02-05-2016 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Grammar
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post #294 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 01:46 PM
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Yes, this has been discussed.

Prior to the update, with Neo:X only able to do wides + front height, it would automatically do "9.1.2" upmix with wides/heights. However, DTS:X/Neural:X is like Atmos in that it prioritizes the 7.1.4 layout, so in order to get the wides to work you have to manually deactive either the S.Back or Height2 speakers in the speaker config.
Is there a consensus as to whether it's best to keep Wides or Back Surrounds? Sucks we have to choose!
Not really. Going to depend on your room layout and personal preference.

Note that you also have the option of giving up a pair of heights instead and running 9.1.2.

Although a final note that DSU doesn't use the wides. So they will be silent if you are trying to upmix and Dolby bitstream.
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post #295 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 06:05 PM
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No one seems to have commented yet on wether DTS:X kept the front wide channels. I have downloaded the new firmware and I am leaning to it does not do wides. Of course I am using 7.2.4 so maybe I might have to do 5.2.4 or 7.2.2 to have the front wides available on my Marantz 8802A. Anyone have experience with this yet?

So far I am very impressed with Neural:X. I don't mind one bit that I am limited to using Neural:X with DTS encoded discs and DSU with Dolby encoded discs. With most discs having DTS anyway, Neural:X seems to be a bit better sounding to me so far. I just wonder about changing a few settings to get front wides again. From what I am hearing so far, I can live without them.
Thanks for the replies. I had been watching various scenes comparing Neural:X and DSU. Both do a very good job. One film with possible overhead up mixing is Master and Commander of the Farside of the World. During the scene of the first attack you can hear the running on deck overhead. It was a bit vague really but you got the impression it was overhead using DTS Neo:X Now with Neural:X it is much clearer that there is running on deck overhead.

I just finished watching The Martian using Neural:X Very impressive. After the film I went back to compare DSU and Neural:X. Putting my player into PCM mode was pretty easy. I then watched the scene where they leave Mars during the storm, and another scene where Whatney launches from Mars to get into orbit to meet his rescuers. DSU and Neural:X did a great job placing things above me. I lean to Neural:X being just a tad better with sound placement. There seemed to be a bit more definition as to where a sound was emanating from. DSU made things rise to the top and Neural:X moved things around above you. Both were good about expanding the soundscape.

As to wides. I may just leave them alone for now. Maybe later I will mess with them if it comes out that they add to the experience. So far Neural:X has made so much more occur in the upper hemisphere that I may not miss the wides. I can say that Neural:X has made my back surrounds much clearer than they have EVER been in the past. Not sure why, but they used to be not as well defined or heard like I hear them now.
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Last edited by awblackmon; 02-10-2016 at 04:59 PM. Reason: edit movie title I got wrong.
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post #296 of 4251 Old 02-05-2016, 06:33 PM
 
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Greetings,

Actually, the DTS:X rating is 86. The rating of 96 is for the DTS-HD 7.1 Master Audio core.

Regards,
Greetings Ralph,

Please could you briefly explain how you came up with that rating score (86) for the DTS:X main audio soundtrack...it would be very swell.
...While the core audio (DTS-HD MA 7.1) is @ 96 ♦ https://www.avsforum.com/forum/187-of...l#post41290353

Bests,

• Your audio evaluation is pretty good actually from your review:

"This 7.1 DTS-HD Master Audio soundtrack is aggressive and features an active surround mix that has extended dynamic range that positively renders the bombastic nature of the elements in the recording. The action based sequences transform the listening area into a three dimensional sound field filled via immersive surround activity that mates perfectly with the events unfolding onscreen. Low frequency effects produce deep resonating bass that rumbles with tactile authority that occasionally pressurizes the room. Dialogue is reproduced with lucid expression and exacting clarity that imparts just the slightest hint of sibilance in the upper registers. This is a wonderfully involving and dynamically rewarding sound design that features high level sonic detail, superb directional correlation and rhythmically charged bass extension. My advice is to crank this one up, sit back and enjoy.

* The Last Witch Hunter represents the first title with a DTS:X soundtrack that I have been able to evaluate since recently upgrading my Marantz AV8802A pre/pro to include the necessary processing. Seeing as it's an action based film I wondered how similar it would be when compared to its Dolby counterpart, which I have been very pleased with. You will note that my rating elements for DTS:X are identical to those used for Dolby Atmos as the characteristics of what I look for are the same. *

In listening to the DTS:X object based surround mix, especially in the early parts of the film, I found it to be of the reserved variety in its use of sounds that emanate from above. Predominantly speaking the use of sounds in the height plane was limited to occasional atmospherics and pointed supplemental object fills. I certainly have no problem with that especially if the mix as a whole appropriately supports the film's elements and that wasn't an issue. The action based sequences during the first two acts create an engaging level of immersion that coincides with the onscreen events nicely. During the various scenes involving weapons play, physical encounters and venue replicating sound placement, the use of discretely placed objects and room swirling effects placing you inside the action.

Right around chapter 11, with the resurrection of the Witch Queen, things ramp up and the overhead sound field kicks in. As the intensity of the fighting, such as the battle with the Sentinel, picks up, using closer quarters, the culmination of effects emanating from all around proves involving. I also noticed that the front height channels were used on occasion to augment the depth of sounds like low level claps thunder, which based on the camera's perspective were off in the distance. The effect was actually very good and made it seems as though you were standing on the roof of a tall building listening to the approaching storm. So the question is did I find my first DTS:X experience to be worth the wait? I would say that the experience was on par with what I have heard from other 3D immersive soundtracks. In that regard the answer is yes. Did this mix make the best use of the format's capabilities, perhaps not, but the potential is there and I look forward to hearing more from DTS:X. "

Last edited by NorthSky; 02-05-2016 at 06:44 PM.
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post #297 of 4251 Old 02-06-2016, 02:03 AM
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Greetings Ralph,

Please could you briefly explain how you came up with that rating score (86) for the DTS:X main audio soundtrack...it would be very swell.
...While the core audio (DTS-HD MA 7.1) is @ 96 ♦ https://www.avsforum.com/forum/187-of...l#post41290353

Bests,

• Your audio evaluation is pretty good actually from your review:

"This 7.1 DTS-HD Master Audio soundtrack is aggressive and features an active surround mix that has extended dynamic range that positively renders the bombastic nature of the elements in the recording. The action based sequences transform the listening area into a three dimensional sound field filled via immersive surround activity that mates perfectly with the events unfolding onscreen. Low frequency effects produce deep resonating bass that rumbles with tactile authority that occasionally pressurizes the room. Dialogue is reproduced with lucid expression and exacting clarity that imparts just the slightest hint of sibilance in the upper registers. This is a wonderfully involving and dynamically rewarding sound design that features high level sonic detail, superb directional correlation and rhythmically charged bass extension. My advice is to crank this one up, sit back and enjoy.

* The Last Witch Hunter represents the first title with a DTS:X soundtrack that I have been able to evaluate since recently upgrading my Marantz AV8802A pre/pro to include the necessary processing. Seeing as it's an action based film I wondered how similar it would be when compared to its Dolby counterpart, which I have been very pleased with. You will note that my rating elements for DTS:X are identical to those used for Dolby Atmos as the characteristics of what I look for are the same. *

In listening to the DTS:X object based surround mix, especially in the early parts of the film, I found it to be of the reserved variety in its use of sounds that emanate from above. Predominantly speaking the use of sounds in the height plane was limited to occasional atmospherics and pointed supplemental object fills. I certainly have no problem with that especially if the mix as a whole appropriately supports the film's elements and that wasn't an issue. The action based sequences during the first two acts create an engaging level of immersion that coincides with the onscreen events nicely. During the various scenes involving weapons play, physical encounters and venue replicating sound placement, the use of discretely placed objects and room swirling effects placing you inside the action.

Right around chapter 11, with the resurrection of the Witch Queen, things ramp up and the overhead sound field kicks in. As the intensity of the fighting, such as the battle with the Sentinel, picks up, using closer quarters, the culmination of effects emanating from all around proves involving. I also noticed that the front height channels were used on occasion to augment the depth of sounds like low level claps thunder, which based on the camera's perspective were off in the distance. The effect was actually very good and made it seems as though you were standing on the roof of a tall building listening to the approaching storm. So the question is did I find my first DTS:X experience to be worth the wait? I would say that the experience was on par with what I have heard from other 3D immersive soundtracks. In that regard the answer is yes. Did this mix make the best use of the format's capabilities, perhaps not, but the potential is there and I look forward to hearing more from DTS:X. "

Greetings,

It looks like you've answered your own question Bob..


Regards,

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post #298 of 4251 Old 02-06-2016, 02:11 AM
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Thanks for the replies. I had been watching various scenes comparing Neural:X and DSU. Both do a very good job. One film with possible overhead up mixing is Master and Commander of the Farside of the World. During the scene of the first attack you can hear the running on deck overhead. It was a bit vague really but you got the impression it was overhead using DTS Neo:X Now with Neural:X it is much clearer that there is running on deck overhead.
Your evaluation of "Master and Commander of the Fareside of the World" both with Neo:X and Neural:X is disappointing.
The core DTS MA track with no up mixing is a fantastic example of what can be achieved without any ceiling speakers and there should be nothing vague about hearing the sailors running across your ceiling.
I don't know how they do it but it brings into question why we have to have ceiling speakers in the first place.
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Last edited by Lesmor; 02-06-2016 at 02:15 AM.
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post #299 of 4251 Old 02-06-2016, 03:07 AM
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Your evaluation of "Master and Commander of the Fareside of the World" both with Neo:X and Neural:X is disappointing.
The core DTS MA track with no up mixing is a fantastic example of what can be achieved without any ceiling speakers and there should be nothing vague about hearing the sailors running across your ceiling.
I don't know how they do it but it brings into question why we have to have ceiling speakers in the first place.
To your last point, I think it is because the phantom-imaged examples such as that from Master and Commander Far Side of the World are extremely few and far between and a "happy accident", whereas with physical speakers on the ceiling they are deliberate and become commonplace. In fact M&C is the only movie I can think of which has that effect, and it is only on one scene in the entire movie, whereas if that movie was remixed with Atmos, we would have many opportunities to hear sounds from above throughout the entire movie. Even with DSU, there is much greater use of the overheads, and often with surprising locational precision (I happened to watch the movie again a few days ago).
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post #300 of 4251 Old 02-06-2016, 03:19 AM
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To your last point, I think it is because the phantom-imaged examples such as that from Master and Commander Far Side of the World are extremely few and far between and a "happy accident", whereas with physical speakers on the ceiling they are deliberate and become commonplace. In fact M&C is the only movie I can think of which has that effect, and it is only on one scene in the entire movie, whereas if that movie was remixed with Atmos, we would have many opportunities to hear sounds from above throughout the entire movie. Even with DSU, there is much greater use of the overheads, and often with surprising locational precision (I happened to watch the movie again a few days ago).
Hi Keith thanks for the input
There are other examples of phantom imaging, such as in a couple of "Harry Potter" movies and more recently "Ant Man" there are others that elude me at this time but you are right not as many as you would think given the effect phantom imaging produces.

The reason I replied was I was just surprised that the OP put the overhead sound in M&C down to the up mixers and he used the word vague, and that did surprise me.

But yes we have moved on and I am not totally dismissive of ceiling speakers because as you say they can be active 100% of the time instead of the odd phantom effect we are discussing.
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