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post #2401 of 4222 Old 08-08-2016, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdwilly3 View Post
So, does this same difference apply to the respective upmixers as well as the native formats?
Upmixing shouldn't really matter as there is no such thing as "positional rendering". The upmixer is just analyzing common info in left/right pairs and then pushing some it skyward. I would bet the results would identical between "height" vs. "top" label in this context as all the upmixer really cares about is a frontal pair and a rearward pair.

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post #2402 of 4222 Old 08-08-2016, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Sanjay - to be clear, those two statements are predicated on the fronts being at +/-45 right?
...which I don't believe is standard angle range for L&R right now. 30 degrees is the norm.

Hey... just trying to keep things consistent and clear.

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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Upmixing shouldn't really matter as there is no such thing as "positional rendering". The upmixer is just analyzing common info in left/right pairs and then pushing some it skyward. I would bet the results would identical between "height" vs. "top" label in this context as all the upmixer really cares about is a frontal pair and a rearward pair.
I've tried both and there is an audible difference.

Sometimes it was close but usually the HEIGHT setting made things sound taller and less focused than OVERHEAD/TOP using both DSU and Neural:X.

In this case, I'd definitely say it's a YMMV situation and just... "let it be" as you have said before. Not so much with actual native DTS:X though.
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post #2403 of 4222 Old 08-08-2016, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
...which I don't believe is standard angle range for L&R right now. 30 degrees is the norm.

Hey... just trying to keep things consistent and clear.
Right, which is why I pointed out the specific premise (fronts at +/- 45) as being inherent to Sanjay's description. I don't know how immutable that is for Atmos (e.g. given Stuart's report of the Trinnov having an option to configure this).


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I've tried both and there is an audible difference.
OK, so there must be some variance in front vs. rear distribution of the extracted sounds. I would assume that it would be more obvious with N:X than DSU since DSU is just extracting decorrelated stuff. I'm too lazy to check

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post #2404 of 4222 Old 08-08-2016, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Right, which is why I pointed out the specific premise (fronts at +/- 45) as being inherent to Sanjay's description. I don't know how immutable that is for Atmos (e.g. given Stuart's report of the Trinnov having an option to configure this).




OK, so there must be some variance in front vs. rear distribution of the extracted sounds. I would assume that it would be more obvious with N:X than DSU since DSU is just extracting decorrelated stuff. I'm too lazy to check
The difference wasn't as jarring as it was going from everything to DTS:X with this setting or that setting. Even I thought a couple of times, "ahh...doesn't seem to really matter" which is which when listening to upmixed sound. But after spending more time with Neural:X and occasionally being really wow'd with some content, I am sticking with OVERHEAD/TOP and ain't changing.

I gotta get more time in with N:X and legacy titles. The newest stuff that isn't Atmos or DTS:X but is 7.1 has been good.

Edge of Tomorrow: first couple of full-length sequences falling from the dropship. Wow! I could hear the future craft circling way up on the ceiling from one speaker to another.

Similar effects in both Lone Survivor and Battle:LA. Woah. Good stuff!

Saving Private Ryan...no so much. Better with DSU, imo.

Most things sound "best" with DSU, I think. Neural:X can quickly start to sound artificial or even gimmicky. Some stuff benefits, others do not. DSU is still my 'default' but N:X is getting more an more love from me as I keep trying out more content.
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post #2405 of 4222 Old 08-08-2016, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Right, which is why I pointed out the specific premise (fronts at +/- 45) as being inherent to Sanjay's description. I don't know how immutable that is for Atmos (e.g. given Stuart's report of the Trinnov having an option to configure this).
To be clear, BP, the older software versions of the Altitude only offered the 45 degrees angle for the mains for Atmos. As noted in the Altitude thread in the past, you can select either way as of the major update in March...and the 30 degrees mains certainly have a more cohesive soundstage in my opinion, and at least one other guy I know I've spoken to with an Altitude. I could be wrong but I think that the +- 30 degrees angle is generally what is recommended now as best practice for most rooms.

I've tried wides in my Trinnov setup at roughly 45ish degrees, and also tried using those as alternative mains with Atmos and DTS:X, and either way you get a fat side stage and less of a realistic soundstage up front. That's in my 19x14x9 (LxWxH) room. Closer to 60 degrees just sounds better across the board.
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post #2406 of 4222 Old 08-08-2016, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Sanjay - to be clear, those two statements are predicated on the fronts being at +/-45 right?
No, to the extent that there isn't a speaker location between the Fronts and Wides, irrespective of which azimuth angles you physically place the Front L/R speakers. If you look at the Atmos wheel of death, you'll see three Side speakers on each side: one directly to the side, one just forward of it and one just rearward of it. That leaves 9 speakers in front. The next pair forward of that Side speaker array is the Wides. That then leaves 7 speakers in front. The next pair forward of the Wides is the Fronts (as labeled in the original install guide). So an Atmos front soundstage is made up of 7 speaker locations.

As with the commercial version of Atmos in movie theatres, the Fronts are intended to be the locations just inside the screen and the Wides (commercial equivalent of) are the locations just outside the screen. They're adjacent locations; i.e., there isn't a speaker location between them. Just like the consumer version of Atmos. That doesn't mean the Fronts & Wides have to be physically placed right next to each other OR that the Fronts have to be spread to ±45°.

Front L/R speakers should be placed where they sound good. Their angular spread is a function of how far back you sit. Dolby makes suggestions, with relatively large placement ranges, as a starting point. But you're not compelled to rigidly adhere those suggestions. However far apart you end up placing your Fronts, their rendering locations in the Atmos decoder don't change: there will be 4 locations between the L/C/R speakers and there will be no locations between the Fronts and Wides.

Sanjay
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post #2407 of 4222 Old 08-08-2016, 04:03 PM
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Much better.

That makes sense. Thanks, Sanjay.
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post #2408 of 4222 Old 08-08-2016, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by shoeboo View Post
Looking at the DTS image as well as Atmos installation guide Link it looks like these would fall close to DTS guide and within range of Atmos. Am I to understand that one of the soundfields will be compromised if I chose either of these locations?
Yes. You're right about common placement: Atmos Tops fall close to DTS:X Heights. Problem is, if you designate that location as Tops in your AVR, it will be correct for Atmos but incorrect for DTS:X (which calls those same locations "Heights"). If you designate that location as Heights in your AVR, it will be correct for DTS:X but incorrect for Atmos (which calls those same locations "Tops"). Hence the compromise of one of the formats.
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Also the atmos installation guide shows a 24.1.10 with fronts at 30 degrees and only 1 pair more center (Figure 1) while saying later that the Fronts would be pushed out to 45 degrees if both center pair and screen pair are used (Figure 20)
If you chose to make the 30-degree locations the Front L/R, then that should leave an unused speaker location (a gap) between the Fronts and Wides. Since every speaker location is given a name in the install guide, what is the name of the location between the Fronts and Wides?

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post #2409 of 4222 Old 08-08-2016, 04:32 PM
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Umm....L2 and R2, of course.

Sometimes I need a left speaker that is more lefter than the left but not as much as the left wide.

Cuz for "stability". Totally.
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post #2410 of 4222 Old 08-09-2016, 02:15 PM
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Watching this tonite!



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post #2411 of 4222 Old 08-09-2016, 02:53 PM
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Enjoy!

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post #2412 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 12:47 PM
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Stormaudio announces DTS:X on all processors

http://www.stormaudio.com/media/pres...6_11082016.pdf

(back on line after 6 months of web site inactivity, the GalaxisAudio brand and the Auriga receiver seem to have disappeared)

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post #2413 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 01:07 PM
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Are there any StormAudio products in release?

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post #2414 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 01:10 PM
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Are there any StormAudio products in release?
Since their list of distributors remains empty, apparently not.
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post #2415 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 01:24 PM
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Since their list of distributors remains empty, apparently not.
Has any StormAudio product ever been released? The way the press release is written, it almost gives the impression that they're adding a feature to an existing product.

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post #2416 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 01:49 PM
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The way the press release is written, it almost gives the impression that they're adding a feature to an existing product.
Probably just another Van Baelenism, Sanjay.
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post #2417 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 01:55 PM
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Why does everything with that guy have to be.... well, never mind.

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post #2418 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 02:41 PM
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Has any StormAudio product ever been released? The way the press release is written, it almost gives the impression that they're adding a feature to an existing product.


Semi-vaporware software for vaporware hardware. Seems appropriate.
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post #2419 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 02:42 PM
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post #2420 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Has any StormAudio product ever been released? The way the press release is written, it almost gives the impression that they're adding a feature to an existing product.
From their website:

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At the CEDIA Expo 2016, Auro's Home Entertainment and Luxury Audio Product Division will be launching its StormAudio product range as well as having the product line on display.
Looks like they have their mocks-ups ready.

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post #2421 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 03:15 PM
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Looks like they have their mocks-ups ready.
Just like they had their Mensa and Crux mockups at CEDIA last year?
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post #2422 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 03:24 PM
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Are there any StormAudio products in release?
Just like with videogames...

Easy to make promise and never deliver on promise.

And I bet they'll take your pre-order!
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post #2423 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 03:30 PM
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Just like they had their Mensa and Crux mockups at CEDIA last year?
To be honest, they did manage to demonstrate both their Mensa processor and multichannel power amps together with Triad earlier this year at ISE.

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post #2425 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
To be honest, they did manage to demonstrate both their Mensa processor and multichannel power amps together with Triad earlier this year at ISE.
Can I buy one today, Maikel? They've been showing them @ CEDIA since 2014.
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post #2426 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 03:59 PM
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Mensa is made by Datasat, who have no problem delivering product. By comparison, StormAudio doesn't seemed to have delivered any of their announced pre-pros. Ever.

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post #2427 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by RUR View Post
Just like they had their Mensa and Crux mockups at CEDIA last year?
I always forget which is which, but IIRC the Mensa mockup was a rebadged Datasat RS20i, and the Crux mockup was a rebadged LS10. The GalaxisAudio brand is (or was) more of a placeholder for Auro to sell a processor in certain markets (primarily Asia, since I think their old web page had their rep in Hong Kong) under that name, but since the page has vanished, and there's no accordant link on the Auro page, they may have given up on the idea of having their own brand and simply focused on the Storm Audio specific products.

They're supposedly coming up with a 32 channel processor, but if you read the fine print, it's 16 channels of decoding and 32 available for post-processing. Which could mean it's got Datasat guts or not, to go with an expansion board and some firmware tweaks.

http://www.stormaudio.com/en/product...e-edition.html

I'm going to CEDIA, so I'll take one for the team and check this out.
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post #2428 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 05:06 PM
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Dts:x

Going to there contact looks like Storm Audio is developed by the guys who gave us Auro

AURO TECHNOLOGIES N.V.
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OTHER OFFICES:

AURO TECHNOLOGIES FRANCE SARL
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post #2429 of 4222 Old 08-11-2016, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post
Going to there contact looks like Storm Audio is developed by the guys who gave us Auro

AURO TECHNOLOGIES N.V.
Home Entertainment & Luxury Audio Product Division
Kievitstraat 42
2400 Mol
Belgium

OTHER OFFICES:

AURO TECHNOLOGIES FRANCE SARL
76 Rue de Leinster
44240 La Chapelle sur Erdre
France


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Last year Auro Technologies bought the StormAudio brand and the Residential subsidiary (DMS-R) from Digital Media Solutions.
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post #2430 of 4222 Old 08-12-2016, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post
Can I buy one today, Maikel?
Back in 2014 I was told by a local re-seller (stassen.nl) that I could buy the Auriga receiver (he actually said that he already sold one), which at that time was being demonstrated in one of his listening rooms, together with built-in Bowers&Wilkins loudspeakers. Today the Auriga is still being offered on their website, but not the Mensa or Crux processors (they do have the Datasat LS10). Another immersive audio dealer in Germany (grobi.tv) removed all Auro products (Auriga, Mensa and Crux) from its web-shop. Back to your question: Yes, I suppose you can buy / or could have bought at least an Auriga, but I have not found one single case of someone who actually got one...

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They've been showing them @ CEDIA since 2014.
As non-native English speaker it may be a semantic misinterpretation on my side, but I thought there was a difference between "showing" or "putting on display" (so you can look at it), and actually "demonstrating" a product (so you can experience it).

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Mensa is made by Datasat, who have no problem delivering product. By comparison, StormAudio doesn't seemed to have delivered any of their announced pre-pros. Ever.
The did however deliver successful demonstrations of both their home-made Auriga receiver, and Class D Audio Multi-Channel Power Amplifiers.

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