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Old 01-27-2016, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Dts:x

With DTS:X finally available for Denon X7200W(A), it's time for an exclusive DTS:X thread for all those who want to share their experience after upgrade.
So let's go..

Please share your views on

1. DTS:X compared to Atmos
2. DTS:Neural X compared to DSU
3. Content you watched and recommend . (Right now only Ex-Machina I guess)
4. Speaker layouts

and on and on
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Old 01-27-2016, 07:08 PM
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Content Available now.

Ex-Machina
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Let's go!!
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Old 01-28-2016, 12:26 AM
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Old 01-28-2016, 12:59 AM
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OK!

But if we to compare Atmos vs DTS:X we use the Atmos thread, correct?
In this thread, only DTS:X vs Atmos?

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Old 01-28-2016, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pletwals View Post
OK!

But if we to compare Atmos vs DTS:X we use the Atmos thread, correct?
In this thread, only DTS:X vs Atmos?

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Old 01-28-2016, 08:02 AM
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I may hold off on the upgrade until the verdict is out on how Neural:X compares to DSU. With only a handful of titles with Native DTS:X I am fearful to give up DSU. I am thrilled with the way it sounds with DTS titles. Is there a way to downgrade/roll back the firmware if not happy?

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Old 01-28-2016, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
With DTS:X finally available for Denon X7200W(A), it's time for an exclusive DTS:X thread for all those who want to share their experience after upgrade.
So let's go..

Please share your views on

1. DTS:X compared to Atmos
2. DTS:Neural X compared to DSU
3. Content you watched and recommend . (Right now only Ex-Machina I guess)
4. Speaker layouts

and on and on
DTS Neural:X is much better than the Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU).
Attached Comparison: First minutes of "Transformers: Age Of Extinction" using DSU and Neural:X - yes, you can also hear the difference!

Best,
Luke
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSkywalker View Post
DTS Neural:X is much better than the Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU).
Attached Comparison: First minutes of "Transformers: Age Of Extinction" using DSU and Neural:X - yes, you can also hear the difference!

Best,
Luke
T4 is native Atmos. It doesn't use DSU.

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Old 01-28-2016, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by blackssr View Post
T4 is native Atmos. It doesn't use DSU.
Yes, I know. But the Atmos track sucks. It's the Dolby Digital track played as Multichannel PCM, otherwise you can't use Neural:X (doesn't work with Dolby tracks)
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by LukeSkywalker View Post
Yes, I know. But the Atmos track sucks. It's the Dolby Digital track played as Multichannel PCM, otherwise you can't use Neural:X (doesn't work with Dolby tracks)
That method is useless. Most enthusiasts bit stream. Try a different test.
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSkywalker View Post
DTS Neural:X is much better than the Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU).
Attached Comparison: First minutes of "Transformers: Age Of Extinction" using DSU and Neural:X - yes, you can also hear the difference!

Best,
Luke
What is this a measurement of, exactly?
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:48 AM
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To really compare you need to send a multich track as PCM so you can switch between both upmixers on the exact same content.

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Old 01-28-2016, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSkywalker View Post
DTS Neural:X is much better than the Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU).
Attached Comparison: First minutes of "Transformers: Age Of Extinction" using DSU and Neural:X - yes, you can also hear the difference!

Best,
Luke
What are we looking at here?
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:06 AM
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Greetings,

I am looking forward to seeing how Neural:X handles legacy lossless DTS as well. I currently have both The Last Witch Hunter and Crimson Peak, native DTS:X, in for review. I am not so certain about the films themselves but hope that their soundtracks prove rewarding.


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Old 01-28-2016, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post
Greetings,

I am looking forward to seeing how Neural:X handles legacy lossless DTS as well. I currently have both The Last Witch Hunter and Crimson Peak, native DTS:X, in for review. I am not so certain about the films themselves but hope that their soundtracks prove rewarding.


Regards,
Are using a DTS X AVR for the review of The Last Witch Hunter and Crimson Peak?
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Old 01-28-2016, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post
Greetings,

I am looking forward to seeing how Neural:X handles legacy lossless DTS as well. I currently have both The Last Witch Hunter and Crimson Peak, native DTS:X, in for review. I am not so certain about the films themselves but hope that their soundtracks prove rewarding.


Regards,
What AVR do you have again? Does it allow for DTS HD+DSU as well as native DTS:X? My Denon 7200 does not allow for this once the upgrade is done. I am not willing to give up DTS HD+DSU until I have more info with regard to how Neural sounds with DTS HD titles. Most of my collection is DTS HD native and love the DSU sound. I would hope DTS Neural would be equally as good.

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Old 01-28-2016, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
What is this a measurement of, exactly?
Looks like the same input was fed to both upmixers and then the output was measured (so you could visually see what was being extracted and sent to the height speakers).

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Old 01-28-2016, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Looks like the same input was fed to both upmixers and then the output was measured (so you could visually see what was being extracted and sent to the height speakers).
Could be. Idk, that's why I'd like to hear his response about this.

All it looks like to me is two single mono waveforms. One showing more variation and amplitude compared to the other.

Reading between the lines here, I see that the more exciting looking one would probably be the Neural:X height content compared to the more restrained DSU. I'm guessing. So more is better, I guess.

Last edited by Scott Simonian; 01-28-2016 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Could be. Idk, that's why I'd like to hear his response about this.

All it looks like to me is two single mono waveforms. One showing more variation and amplitude compared to the other.

Reading between the lines here, I see that the more exciting looking one would probably be the Neural:X height content compared to the more restrained DSU. I'm guessing. So more is better, I guess.
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:56 PM
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Greetings,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Are using a DTS X AVR for the review of The Last Witch Hunter and Crimson Peak?
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackssr View Post
What AVR do you have again? Does it allow for DTS HD+DSU as well as native DTS:X? My Denon 7200 does not allow for this once the upgrade is done. I am not willing to give up DTS HD+DSU until I have more info with regard to how Neural sounds with DTS HD titles. Most of my collection is DTS HD native and love the DSU sound. I would hope DTS Neural would be equally as good.
I am using the Marantz AV8802A pre/pro. The DTS:X upgrade for it is due for release next week. I will wait and cover these after applying the update.


Regards,
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Old 01-28-2016, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post
Greetings,

I am using the Marantz AV8802A pre/pro. The DTS:X upgrade for it is due for release next week. I will wait and cover these after applying the update.


Regards,
Awsome. Good move

Very exited to hear your impressions
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Old 01-28-2016, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Can someone confirm if DTS:X and Neural:X works with TF+TR combo?
I have seem most with FH+RH or FH+TM (or I may have missed it).
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Old 01-28-2016, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
What is this a measurement of, exactly?
It's a comparison of height channel amplitude time histories of DSU and DTS Neural X from this article http://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/DTS-X...-3085326.html; the caption is "Upmixer compared: DTS: X Neural (below) adds the opening scene of "Transformers: Age of Extinction" much more than Dolby effects to DSU as the waveform of the left rear height channel shows."

DTS Neural X was the clear winner, at least for Xformers AOE, where it's even way better than native Atmos:

"Almost a classic for Test all-round sound Upmixern is the opening sequence of "Transformers: Age of Extinction": On the Atmos track prevails here on the height channels silence - although spaceships fly into the picture, the camera standing under a waterfall, Dinosaurierer screech, a spaceship small satellite settles and at the end even from behind the right front flying a plane left.

Dolby Upmixer adds this scene actually only a few altitude effects - for example, when the waterfall can be seen. All in all, the result remains unsatisfactory but: When overflight of spaceships continue to do very little, the plane one hears only a little about the height speakers. Therefore, we were curious to see what DTS Neural: X delivers.

In fact, the DTS Upmixer lays neatly away from the first setting: spaceships and aircraft roar now clearly audible from the ceiling speakers. The sounds are not just louder than the DSU, but also clearer. But above all, like the scene with the waterfall: The roar is not only clearly audible, it also migrates to match the camera movement from the left to the right side. DTS Neural: X and DSU can be distinguished easily in a blind test."

This is really exciting if it's as typically effective for other movies; if I had to choose I'd gladly take a good upmixer over the ability to decode native content.
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Old 01-28-2016, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Now the hunt begins for the DTS:X demos..
Why demos if the upmixer works so well on actual movies?

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Old 01-28-2016, 10:06 PM
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Why demos if the upmixer works so well on actual movies?
Because people want to hear what the format itself is capable of.
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:32 PM
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As much as I love what DSU has done for legacy content,the Atmos demo disc more than demonstrates what its capable of when native and no upmixing I've done can stand toe to toe. Its up to the mixers to wield these powerful tools and craft immersion and placement of objects. Can't wait till the 4th
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Old 01-29-2016, 02:02 AM
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@ noah katz
Appreciate the explanation and it certainly sounds like neural:X improves on the Xformers AOE experience.

At the end of the day are we not trying to hear what the director/ mixer intended rather than preference.

The only comparison that stands would be the home experience compared to the cinema experience of the same movie which would identify any flaws in the home implementation of Atmos.

Xformers AOE just sounds like a poor implementation of Dolby Atmos while DTS Neural:X although sounding superior is inaccurate to the original media.

A case of preference v reference but it will sure be a feather in DTS Neural:X cap if everyone prefers their presentation rather than what was intended.
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Old 01-29-2016, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Can someone confirm if DTS:X and Neural:X works with TF+TR combo?
I have seem most with FH+RH or FH+TM (or I may have missed it).
It works with any of the 5 available "height" positions on D+M AVRs. The "FH+RH" settings must be used if you want to be able to use the height speakers with all 3 formats, Atmos, DTS:X, and Auro 3D using the same Audyssey EQ for each.
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Old 01-29-2016, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
With DTS:X finally available for Denon X7200W(A), it's time for an exclusive DTS:X thread for all those who want to share their experience after upgrade.
So let's go..

Please share your views on

1. DTS:X compared to Atmos
Well, the big difference seems to be, according to JD Smoothie on the other DTS:X thread, that DTS:X is using a channel-based system (due to a limitation in the codec) and not an object-based system, as promised.

After all this delay, DTS still don't have an object based system and are resorting to channels? Like Auro. It is scarcely believable, but JD is a reliable source and he quotes an acknowledged industry insider as his own source.

So in the world of object-based audio, there is still only player: Dolby.
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