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post #1801 of 2130 Old 05-21-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Neural:X, yes. Unfortunately, most DTS:X soundtracks are encoded as 7.1.4 channels without sound objects and don't use the Wides.
Try watching DTS:X in a 9.1.2 config. The wides are not silent.

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post #1802 of 2130 Old 05-21-2019, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Neural:X, yes. Unfortunately, most DTS:X soundtracks are encoded as 7.1.4 channels without sound objects and don't use the Wides.
I think that reads rather misleading. Other than the 11-channel limit (say one has a 5.1.4 configuration plus wides), unless you've turned Neural X for DTS:X OFF in your preference menu option, it will gladly serve up wides on ALL DTS:X tracks regardless of 'how' they're encoded and it does it CORRECTLY (same as DPLII extraction).

Once DTS:X Pro arrives, it will have better "full speaker support" than most Atmos tracks as it can create all the extra channels from a 7.1.4 mix. Atmos won't even create top middle or wides unless it's encoded. They say Atmos is "object orientated" and yet unless it supports channels like Lc/Rc in the MIX itself, they DON'T WORK. They SHOULD ALWAYS WORK with "objects" (as the object nears a location, it should calculate a mix for that speaker). But it seems Dolby left loopholes that have allowed the studios to create "near Atmos" soundtracks ("Crapmos") where the reality appears to be far from the promise. At least DTS:X Pro should finally rectify the crap they spewed about how GREAT it is when it's been "near DTS:X" all along. The channel limit is the only thing keeping DTS:X from at least filling in the gaps between the primary channels (and I"m going to say channels as the way it's been used thus far it's really a channel-based system like Auro-3D and IMO that doesn't matter one iota as long as Neural X allows you to fill in the speakers. My "scatmos" top middle sounds every bit as good as a real top middle to my ears. It gets the job done and it gets around the soundtrack 'politics' of Disney and others).

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post #1803 of 2130 Old 05-21-2019, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
Try watching DTS:X in a 9.1.2 config. The wides are not silent.
I did, just the other day. A Beautiful Planet. The Wides were silent!

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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
I think that reads rather misleading. Other than the 11-channel limit (say one has a 5.1.4 configuration plus wides), unless you've turned Neural X for DTS:X OFF in your preference menu option, it will gladly serve up wides on ALL DTS:X tracks regardless of 'how' they're encoded and it does it CORRECTLY (same as DPLII extraction).
Hmm, I better check my receiver setup. I thought that option was turned on, but perhaps it got reset in a firmware update or something.

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post #1804 of 2130 Old 05-21-2019, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
Atmos won't even create top middle or wides unless it's encoded. They say Atmos is "object orientated" and yet unless it supports channels like Lc/Rc in the MIX itself, they DON'T WORK... ..(as the object nears a location, it should calculate a mix for that speaker). But it seems Dolby left loopholes that have allowed the studios to create "near Atmos" soundtracks ("Crapmos") where the reality appears to be far from the promise.
What is your foundation for these statements?

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My "scatmos" top middle sounds every bit as good as a real top middle to my ears. It gets the job done and it gets around the soundtrack 'politics' of Disney and others).
This is why I configured my dual Atmos system in an unconventional manner. I retain the flexibility to run my wides & top middle using an alternate codec, whether Dolbys' upmixer(or Atmos) supports its use or not.
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post #1805 of 2130 Old 05-21-2019, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Longeze View Post
What is your foundation for these statements?
I believe he's referring to discs like some of the Disney 7.1.4 print-outs that don't use Wides or Top Middles.

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post #1806 of 2130 Old 05-21-2019, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Longeze View Post
What is your foundation for these statements?
Disney's locked object 7.1.4 configuration are the main example, but SDrucker's comments on how Gravity (Atmos version) is unusual in that it actually supports his Lc/Rc speakers (I think he said only one or two other mixes did). Frankly, his post more than any other implied the "out of the ordinary" speakers in Atmos have to be enabled in the mixer setup when it's mixed or they're just ignored. I'm not aware of the details of what affects as I don't mix soundtracks and don't have the software. I just read others comments on how their systems behave. Only a few have Trinnov systems on here so it's not like we get to hear a lot about whether all 34 channels are used in all (but disney) mixes so perhaps I misread SDrucker's comments? Certainly, even if I had an 8500 to get true "top middle" what would happen on Disney Atmos tracks there? I'd end up with a null overhead as my room is too long to give a strong overhead image with just front and rear heights. That's why I figure the "Scatmos" extracted top middle works better. It also gets around the DTS:X 11-channel limit (wouldn't work on ANY of their soundtracks with the 8500 as I'd get that null overhead on ALL of them, at least until if/when the DTS:X Pro firmware gets added to the 8500).

Regardless, even if it's just Disney, their ability to restrict Atmos to a precise channel output limitations (7.1.4) when the system can do so much more is RIDICULOUS. For that, I put the blame squarely where it belongs, not on Disney (give someone a knife and you don't expect them to ever pick it up?), but on DOLBY. If they want their system to be utilized in the way it's designed, they can't give the studios tools to bypass the object system and turn it into an 11.x CHANNEL system. WTF is the point of Atmos and all the commercials about "Objects" when Disney can just come along and BYPASS it??? It's very disappointing and I imagine 3x as disappointing (as in around 2/3 the channels are never used) for those that have put money into a system capable of FULL home Atmos. The renderer can render down just fine to 7.1.4. There is no need for Disney to LOCK IT DOWN. But then they've also been ignoring THX/Dolby specs for volume settings, dynamic range and everything else, making a 21st Century MOCKERY of Cinema sound for the home. Things sounded better in some respects from them in the 1990s or even back to 2011 (TRON: LEGACY) and now I wouldn't trust them with a 4K TRON: LEGACY in Atmos for that very reason. They'd neuter it in the process and ruin one of the best soundtracks they ever put on on home video.

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This is why I configured my dual Atmos system in an unconventional manner. I retain the flexibility to run my wides & top middle using an alternate codec, whether Dolbys' upmixer(or Atmos) supports its use or not.
How does that work out for you in terms of keeping them in sync in terms of those settings? I've been thinking about connecting my 7010 back up in a dual-AVR configuration (I could have 'true' front wides, at the very least), but it seems like even with the remote connection, not every function lines up as they have different settings/capabilities. Do you ever have volume out-of-sync issues? What happens when you change home theater modes on one. Does it always select the same one on the other AVR or do you keep the remotes separate as well? I'm curious since it seems like it could be a pain if they got out of sync on a regular basis in terms of volume or other settings. I'd also have to move my mains and side surrounds to the 7010 (and run Audyssey again) in order to facilitate not having any overlap in those channels with wides engaged (and probably the rears too to avoid DTS:X Neural X issues) so if ANYTHING got out of sync, it'd be a lot more than just one pair of speakers. It'd basically put the bed speakers on the 7010 and the overheads on the 7012 and it'd be a lot harder to 'realize' the overheads were out of sync if the timing somehow was even slightly off than the on-screen speakers.

I also thought even if I do it, I might keep the matrixed front wides as well as a mixer option (for music I think it works well for a wider soundstage with added depth, etc. in stereo mode with the arrayed information at different distances in each axis). I'd just have to feed the same pre-amp outputs into the mixer for front wides as usual and add the discrete line as well and then just turn the volume down for movies and back up for stereo music.

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post #1807 of 2130 Old 05-21-2019, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
Disney's locked object 7.1.4 configuration are the main example, but SDrucker's comments on how Gravity (Atmos version) is unusual in that it actually supports his Lc/Rc speakers (I think he said only one or two other mixes did).
There's a few. Off the top of my head, War for the Planet of the Apes, Groundhog Day, Ghostbusters II, Star Trek: Into Darkness, Unbroken, The House with a Clock on its Walls, and Oblivion, along with the REM "Automatic for the People" and Luca Terulli Rhapsody music discs. It's more common to NOT have Lc/Rc receive object passthrough than have it, but it's not as rare as you indicate. I haven't made up a full list on my 70-80 Atmos discs, but that's my slightly more than casual impression.

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Frankly, his post more than any other implied the "out of the ordinary" speakers in Atmos have to be enabled in the mixer setup when it's mixed or they're just ignored. I'm not aware of the details of what affects as I don't mix soundtracks and don't have the software. I just read others comments on how their systems behave. Only a few have Trinnov systems on here so it's not like we get to hear a lot about whether all 34 channels are used in all (but disney) mixes so perhaps I misread SDrucker's comments?
I only have two pairs of unusual presence speakers - left/right surround 1 and the left/right center. But the mixer setup, as you call it, is all about the object locations that are assigned by the mixers, which take into account the closest speaker location that uses that 3D coordinates assigned to the object as it moves, as well you actually needing the speakers to be present in your setup. So far, only Trinnov allows you to do the unusual speakers as a matter of course. And remember, there's a hard limit - something like 12-16 objects total that can be decoded in a consumer Atmos mix, so the vast majority of content will always still be in the bed speakers and the static pair of stereo overhead objects at any given moment.

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Regardless, even if it's just Disney, their ability to restrict Atmos to a precise channel output limitations (7.1.4) when the system can do so much more is RIDICULOUS. For that, I put the blame squarely where it belongs, not on Disney (give someone a knife and you don't expect them to ever pick it up?), but on DOLBY. If they want their system to be utilized in the way it's designed, they can't give the studios tools to bypass the object system and turn it into an 11.x CHANNEL system. WTF is the point of Atmos and all the commercials about "Objects" when Disney can just come along and BYPASS it??? It's very disappointing and I imagine 3x as disappointing (as in around 2/3 the channels are never used) for those that have put money into a system capable of FULL home Atmos. The renderer can render down just fine to 7.1.4. There is no need for Disney to LOCK IT DOWN. But then they've also been ignoring THX/Dolby specs for volume settings, dynamic range and everything else, making a 21st Century MOCKERY of Cinema sound for the home. Things sounded better in some respects from them in the 1990s or even back to 2011 (TRON: LEGACY) and now I wouldn't trust them with a 4K TRON: LEGACY in Atmos for that very reason. They'd neuter it in the process and ruin one of the best soundtracks they ever put on on home video.
So far, it's only Disney that seems to have a policy of locking content to 7.1.4 or possibly 7.1.6. I agree what Disney does is disappointing - enough that I don't buy Disney UHDs unless someone at home absolutely wants to see them - but keep in mind that mixer styles are ideosyncratic. Meaning there are movies that looks effectively "preprinted" to 7.1.6 or 9.1.6 (Red Sparrow is an example of that one), others that just have one pair of static stereo overhead objetcs like Saving Private Ryan (if you do 7.1.4 they're apparently split evenly between front and rear tops, but if you do 7.1.6 that object winds up in the top middle), still others where they use side surrounds 1 and wides, but not left/right centers, etc.

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post #1808 of 2130 Old 05-21-2019, 11:16 AM
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@sdrucker - Thanks for the information/clarification. I do wonder how many more of the more unusual speaker locations are actually used/available in mixes in Atmos. So few have access to them and many may not be using those speakers even so (yes I realize Trinnov has remapping that allows it to use locations that aren't actually used to make them appear to come from other locations, etc. as well, but not quite the same thing as AVRs increase in channels and may find many movies simply don't use some of the newly available channels).

I wonder specifically about Surround #2 ('rear wide' location) in mixes. Ultimately, I'm waiting/looking for an AVR that will handle my full 11.x.6 setup fully discrete without costing me the price of a mid-priced automobile (Trinnov). Some new 9.x.6 models are hovering on the horizon (still waiting to see one actually release), but the surround #2 matrixed speaker is more important in my setup (for 2nd/3rd row integration) than the front wides (which due to the narrow width of the room actually image quite well for the center seats, at least without any help. They do help for the left/right front row off-center seats, though, I think in anchoring the side surround effect to the side or at least "around" the seats instead of just behind it, though, definitely better with than without for those seats and I think matrixed-wise they definitely improve soundstage 'presence' imaging (making the phantom image seem "more real in space" like a dipole does).

Even then, though, I wonder if 'matrixed' is the way to go since with Auro-3D the matrixed surround #2 speaker actually pulls the bed level 'back' area much further back even for the MLP and in combination with an extracted top middle and matrixed front wides, Auro-3D is capable of something that sounds very similar to 9.1.6 Atmos here (as opposed to 5.1.4 which it normally sounds the most like in 'true' mode), at least for the first two rows (and the third row definitely benefits as well as the image at least comes back to that row, even if it's not "behind" it like rear-bed surround Atmos/X tracks are. All of those matrixed benefits come down to the various formats or soundtracks not supporting the speakers in question directly to begin with, though. Discrete would be superior (save perhaps for everything but stereo presence) if everything supported all the speakers all the time.

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post #1809 of 2130 Old 05-21-2019, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
So far, it's only Disney that seems to have a policy of locking content to 7.1.4 or possibly 7.1.6 (I'd have to check my copy of Wonder Woman again, but there's IIRC there's a few moments where all three pairs of height speakers get pulled in, and likewise Guardians of the Galaxy 2).
Wonder Woman is Warner Bros/DC, not Disney/Marvel.

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post #1810 of 2130 Old 05-21-2019, 12:18 PM
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Wonder Woman is Warner Bros/DC, not Disney/Marvel.
Thanks - doing from memory. Corrected.

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post #1811 of 2130 Old 05-21-2019, 12:46 PM
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Neural:X, yes. Unfortunately, most DTS:X soundtracks are encoded as 7.1.4 channels without sound objects and don't use the Wides.
DTS:X has the ability to use Neural:X upmixing to extract additional speaker outputs from the channel bed. If you play back a 7.1.4 DTS:X soundtrack on a 9.1.2 speaker layout, with Neural:X enabled in the audio settings (NOT the Neural:X upmixer surround mode, this is a separate setting) then it WILL play back with extracted content in the wide speakers.

Related note -- this Neural:X extraction that can be used to "spread" a DTS:X track to additional speakers is going to be how DTS:X "Pro" will work to exceed 11 channels. So a 7.1.4 hard-coded DTS:X track could expand to 9.1.6 by using Neural:X to extract the wides in between fronts+surround and top middle from the front+rear heights.
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post #1812 of 2130 Old 05-21-2019, 02:11 PM
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DTS:X Pro 'should' do a lot more than 9.1.6. I believe all 32 speaker positions should be available on something like the Trinnov.

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post #1813 of 2130 Old 05-21-2019, 03:51 PM
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I did, just the other day. A Beautiful Planet. The Wides were silent!
Try another DTS:X title and double check whether you were configured for 9.1.4 or 9.1.2. IF the latter, then Wides should have been active. DTS hates silent speakers, so your Denon should give you the option of feeding the Wides an extracted centre output between the Fronts & Sides OR a copy of the Sides. Either way, they shouldn't be silent. Again, this assumes a 9.1.2 configuration. A second pair of heights gets priority over the Wides, so DTS:X will switch to 7.1.4.

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post #1814 of 2130 Old 05-21-2019, 04:07 PM
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Related note -- this Neural:X extraction that can be used to "spread" a DTS:X track to additional speakers is going to be how DTS:X "Pro" will work to exceed 11 channels.
The only reason DTS:X can scale to additional speakers using only centre extraction is because the 12 main speakers in the base layer are exactly in between adjacent speakers (same with the 8 speakers in the height layer). That speaker placement is an indication that the format was designed from the very beginning for scaling channels via a simple 2:3 matrix and not relying on objects to feed additional speakers. DTS:X Pro is what the DTS:X format was always intended to be. Just took them a while to work up to it.

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post #1815 of 2130 Old 05-21-2019, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
DTS:X has the ability to use Neural:X upmixing to extract additional speaker outputs from the channel bed. If you play back a 7.1.4 DTS:X soundtrack on a 9.1.2 speaker layout, with Neural:X enabled in the audio settings (NOT the Neural:X upmixer surround mode, this is a separate setting) then it WILL play back with extracted content in the wide speakers.
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Try another DTS:X title and double check whether you were configured for 9.1.4 or 9.1.2. IF the latter, then Wides should have been active. DTS hates silent speakers, so your Denon should give you the option of feeding the Wides an extracted centre output between the Fronts & Sides OR a copy of the Sides. Either way, they shouldn't be silent. Again, this assumes a 9.1.2 configuration. A second pair of heights gets priority over the Wides, so DTS:X will switch to 7.1.4.
I don't know, fellas. I just checked again. Configured for 9.1.2. Confirmed that the Neural:X setting in the Surround Parameter menu is turned On. Playing my only two DTS:X titles on hand, A Beautiful Planet and Journey to the South Pacific, the Wide channels are completely silent. Not a squeak at all while the fronts and Surrounds are blaring. Even the DTS:X logo trailer at the start of the disc gives nothing to those speakers.

There some other setting I'm supposed to turn on to make this work?

Neural:X when applied to 5.1 or 7.1 soundtracks does engage the Wide channels.




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post #1816 of 2130 Old 05-22-2019, 05:30 AM
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Here's a twist: I disengaged the Surround Back speakers for a 5.1.2(+W) layout. The Wide speakers do engage on the DTS:X titles in this configuration. I also tried 5.1.4(+W) and that worked too. However, in 7.1.2(+W), they do not.

The Wide speakers will not work at the same time as Surround Backs with DTS:X audio. It's one or the other.

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post #1817 of 2130 Old 05-22-2019, 10:05 AM
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Playing my only two DTS:X titles on hand, A Beautiful Planet and Journey to the South Pacific
Well, now I'm wondering if this is because they are IMAX Enhanced DTS titles and something about the IMAX flag engaging disables / supercedes the Neural:X upmixing parameter?

Just a funny coincidence that the only two titles you tested are the two IMAX Enhanced ones.

I don't think you can finalize your conclusion without trying a "normal" DTS:X disc.
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post #1818 of 2130 Old 05-22-2019, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Well, now I'm wondering if this is because they are IMAX Enhanced DTS titles and something about the IMAX flag engaging disables / supercedes the Neural:X upmixing parameter?

Just a funny coincidence that the only two titles you tested are the two IMAX Enhanced ones.

I don't think you can finalize your conclusion without trying a "normal" DTS:X disc.
Well, those are the only two I've got. Looking through the list of available titles with DTS:X, I'm not seeing anything I feel a huge need to run out and buy just to test this.

Someone else with Wide speakers able to give a DTS:X disc a spin?

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post #1819 of 2130 Old 05-22-2019, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Well, those are the only two I've got. Looking through the list of available titles with DTS:X, I'm not seeing anything I feel a huge need to run out and buy just to test this.

Someone else with Wide speakers able to give a DTS:X disc a spin?
I'll look at Gladiator later tonight. I can do a 9.1.2 preset with rear surrounds and wides but only a pair of top middles, vs. a 7.1.4 setup (no surround backs, just wides, and FH/RH) and compare.
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post #1820 of 2130 Old 05-22-2019, 11:17 PM
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Longeze: "This is why I configured my dual Atmos system in an unconventional manner. I retain the flexibility to run my wides & top middle using an alternate codec, whether Dolbys' upmixer(or Atmos) supports its use or not."

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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
How does that work out for you in terms of keeping them in sync in terms of those settings? Do you ever have volume out-of-sync issues? What happens when you change home theater modes on one. Does it always select the same one on the other AVR or do you keep the remotes separate as well? I'm curious since it seems like it could be a pain if they got out of sync on a regular basis in terms of volume or other settings. I'd also have to move my mains and side surrounds to the 7010 (and run Audyssey again) in order to facilitate not having any overlap in those channels with wides engaged (and probably the rears too to avoid DTS:X Neural X issues) so if ANYTHING got out of sync, it'd be a lot more than just one pair of speakers. It'd basically put the bed speakers on the 7010 and the overheads on the 7012 and it'd be a lot harder to 'realize' the overheads were out of sync if the timing somehow was even slightly off than the on-screen speakers.
There's a short learning curve, but you'll quickly get the hang of any necessary adjustments attendant to various sound modes required. I notice DSX tends to run the wides a bit hot, so I trim them back when I use that mode as needed. For the most part, the volumes track very well with 1 remote for me since I'm using a Denon 4311 for an amp and a Denon X5200 to run my wides & top middle. My primary Marantz preamp volume remains constant at all times for the bed layer(-wides), FH & RH. I have the Denon's arranged so that depending on how I aim my remote, I can adjust the volume on both either independently or simultaneously. I can(&do) often use my computer to adjust the Denon & Marantz parameters independently. That includes volume levels, signal sources & sound modes. Once I got the channel timing set, I never have to mess with it. It remains consistent AFAIK. I haven't tested it much in various modes, but I haven't heard anything objectionable by way of echos or the like.

As to switching sound modes, sometimes it works perfectly such as when switching to an Atmos signal source, both receivers switch to Atmos automatically. With other signal sources, my X5200 seems to have trouble occasionally locking on to a DSX sound mode, and I have to do this stupid dance of switching various devices in the Hdmi signal chain either on/off or into different signal sources & back momentarily to get the x5200 to lock on. To be candid, it's a PITA. I think I can find a work around for that, but I haven't had the time to mess with it to swap things around to see if there's a sweet spot for the signal chain hierarchy.

FWIW, I've done some testing with & without the x5200 engaged. The result with it engaged is consistently more pleasing(to me) in my room, both for wides and the top middle. I've A/B'd the Atmos demo material many times with good results - things in their proper place & a sense of improved smoothness & immersion. On balance, for me having the 2nd Atmos reciever is a definite asset. I hope this helps.
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post #1821 of 2130 Old 05-23-2019, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Well, now I'm wondering if this is because they are IMAX Enhanced DTS titles and something about the IMAX flag engaging disables / supercedes the Neural:X upmixing parameter?

Just a funny coincidence that the only two titles you tested are the two IMAX Enhanced ones.
For what it's worth, I also tried turning IMAX mode off in the receiver when playing those discs. No difference. Still no use of the Wides.

Very interested to hear what sdrucker finds with Gladiator.

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post #1822 of 2130 Old 05-24-2019, 08:22 AM
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A few new developments for me.

I just discovered that Lexicon (MC-4/8/12) actually digitizes the multi-ch inputs. This means Logic7 can be used to extract Surr Back from a 5ch input. My next step is to determine what happens when only the Side Surr is fed into the Logic7 5.1→7.1 processing.

TL; DR
I have a Bryston SP4 (StormAudio) on its way to me for delivery by Friday!

The Lyngdorf MP-50 is being moved downstairs to the den (5.3.2).
Spoiler!


I submitted two feature requests to Lyngdorf. One to allow speaker layout changes without restarting RoomPerfect. The other to allow remapping of the XLR outputs. Lyngdorf will not be offering either option. (I will post more details in the MP-50 thread.)

I must admit that I am disappointed. The Lyngdorf is a fine piece and just lacking the flexibility I expect in a 16ch processor. The European and Americn approaches to home cinema differ a bit. Lyngdorf reflects this.
Hi Mark,


I have been following several AV processor threads, and have come to a conclusion that you are quite knowledgeable about these pieces of equipment. I was about to put my money on an Emotiva RMC-1, to replace my aging Marantz AV7005 and jump into the ATMOS wagon, but yours and others strong arguments against it made me pause and rethink that option. I believe you own a Bryston SP4, which I wish I could buy, but it is way outside my price range. I really want a system that would be good for both movies and music listening, therefore, my choice of audiophile grade Maggies speakers (already own 1.7´s front, CC5/DWM center, LRS surround) and three stereo Moscode 300 hybrid (tube/mosfet) amps. My amps are 1980´s vintage units, but upgraded to the latest electronics by the Moscode OEM himself. I also own a pair of 1980´s vintage ADS L1290 (also recently upgraded with NOS OE parts) speakers for surround back. For ATMOS I am buying a new 5-channel (Monolith 5X) amp and four KEF R8a speakers. The Monolith may not be at par with my other amps, but for ATMOS I guess I do not require the best amp. Correct?? I just bought an SVS SB-4000 sub to replace a Velodyne DD-10 Plus subwoofer that quit working on me after 6 years of service. Lucky for me (but after buying the SVS) that I found a shop in New Jersey that would fix the Velodyne´s amp for a reasonably fee, so now I have both units working. Lastly, I have also invested heavily in audiophile grade room electrical power installation (dedicated 20-amp circuits, in-wall cabling and outlets), power cords, interconnect cables and speaker cables.



By initially choosing the RMC-1, I set my processor purchase price to up to $5000. The RMC-1 looks great on paper, but by the complains of owners, it seems that it is under-performing. So, which at/under $5000 AV processor would be a good choice? To be honest, I am setting up a separate stereo system in the same room for music (Audio Research preamp, Zu Audio speakers, PrimaLuna amp), so the above system will be used exclusively for movies. Therefore, I want a processor that works. The Emotiva users say the RMC-1 sounds great, but fails miserably as a home theater administrator.



Sorry for the long story, for such a short question.


And thank you for taking the time to read a stranger´s message.
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post #1823 of 2130 Old 05-24-2019, 09:32 AM
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Believe it or not, but the Marantz AV8805 and Emotiva RMC-1 designs have very close similarities. The Marantz would be my choice under $5k. The Monoprice Monolith HTP-1 looks very promising at $4k but it isn't scheduled for release until September.

I am assuming you are looking for SSPs with capabilities beyond 7.1.4.
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post #1824 of 2130 Old 05-24-2019, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
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Believe it or not, but the Marantz AV8805 and Emotiva RMC-1 designs have very close similarities. The Marantz would be my choice under $5k. The Monoprice Monolith HTP-1 looks very promising at $4k but it isn't scheduled for release until September.

I am assuming you are looking for SSPs with capabilities beyond 7.1.4.
I think 7 big speakers is all I can fit in my listening room. So maybe 7.1.4 or 7.2.4 would be my limit. The 16 channels processors are overkill.



And thank you for replying!!
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post #1825 of 2130 Old 05-24-2019, 12:11 PM
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Believe it or not, but the Marantz AV8805 and Emotiva RMC-1 designs have very close similarities. The Marantz would be my choice under $5k. The Monoprice Monolith HTP-1 looks very promising at $4k but it isn't scheduled for release until September.

I am assuming you are looking for SSPs with capabilities beyond 7.1.4.
Do you think the Monolith will be up to the task? Being a brand new design and product? The problems Emotiva is having for going too complex and too fast, you think Monolith will not be the same?
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post #1826 of 2130 Old 05-24-2019, 12:47 PM
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Do you think the Monolith will be up to the task? Being a brand new design and product? The problems Emotiva is having for going too complex and too fast, you think Monolith will not be the same?
Not Marc but only time will tell how well the HTP-1 will work out. I among a lot of others around here are awaiting the reviews before placing our orders. The only thing we do know is that Monolith appear to keep their release schedules while Emotiva yet has to get anything delivered in a working fashion at the promised time frame. I was looking forward to the AVR version of the RMC-1 but I don't expect to see it released and working properly for many years from now.

As you can see from my signature I already have a full 9.1.6 setup using multiple AVR's.

If I was going for a 7.1.4 setup today I would probably go with the NAD T758v3 that is a fairly mature product and has the latest Dirac Live 2.0 room correction.

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post #1827 of 2130 Old 05-24-2019, 01:19 PM
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I think 7 big speakers is all I can fit in my listening room. So maybe 7.1.4 or 7.2.4 would be my limit. The 16 channels processors are overkill.
It is always good to have headroom to grow (for speakers or subs).
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Do you think the Monolith will be up to the task? Being a brand new design and product? The problems Emotiva is having for going too complex and too fast, you think Monolith will not be the same?
The Monolith and Emotiva have nothing in common. I have an inside track at Monoprice and things are looking good.
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post #1828 of 2130 Old 05-24-2019, 02:22 PM
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Gotta love NAD's specification sheet (full disclosure of power with all channels driven; some were asking in the Denon 8500 thread about whether ANYONE published all channels driven since most skirt around it or outright publish misleading advertising). Props to NAD there. Hell, now that it has the extra boards included, etc. I might have considered that one myself with DIRAC in it. I would have had to give up Auro-3D, though (not going anywhere fast with movies so far, but the music mode is still nice). I wonder if NAD will have a 6 or 8-channel add-on pre-out/processing board at some point in the future (kind of doubt it, but that would be cool).

Click THEATER (Updated: May-22-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 10-13-19)
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post #1829 of 2130 Old 05-24-2019, 02:54 PM
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It is always good to have headroom to grow (for speakers or subs).

The Monolith and Emotiva have nothing in common. I have an inside track at Monoprice and things are looking good.

I can wait until September. Somewhere I read that it is ATI and Datasat who are developing the Monolith unit. Is this so?
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post #1830 of 2130 Old 05-24-2019, 02:59 PM
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For ATMOS I am buying a new 5-channel (Monolith 5X) amp and four KEF R8a speakers.
So you are doing up-firing Atmos speakers? Or are you mounting physical speakers up top? What you're describing sounds like quite a bit of overkill, that's a $4,000 investment for the overhead layer, which seems excessive especially if you're talking about bouncing the sound. Are in-ceiling speakers not an option?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyhgarcia View Post
... the above system will be used exclusively for movies. Therefore, I want a processor that works.... I think 7 big speakers is all I can fit in my listening room. So maybe 7.1.4 or 7.2.4 would be my limit. The 16 channels processors are overkill.
I don't see why you wouldn't go for the Marantz 8805. It is extremely high quality, gets rave reviews for sound quality, is extremely flexible and capable, and most importantly it just works. It's a fully mature product from a huge company with many more resources than a boutique brand like Emotiva that hasn't had hardly a complaint about bugs or stability in the owner's thread.

The other option staying below $5K if you aren't going over 7.1.4 would be the Anthem AVM-60, also good audiophile chops and excellent ARC room correction which supposedly has improved a lot with a recent update to ARC "Genesis" which is a new iteration.

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