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post #1 of 86 Old 03-01-2016, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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AudioSource AMP100VS help

I seem to be one of the first owners of the brand new AudioSource AMP100VS. This model replaced the AMP100. I received the AMP100VS Sunday from Amazon. My intended use is to power my two rear presence speakers in my 7.2.4 setup with the Yamaha RX-A3050. All of my speakers are Klipsch and I am using four Klipsch in-ceiling speakers.

In order to get sound (test tones) to come out of the two RP speakers I've had to individually turn up the level to at least +8.0 db in the receiver manual setup and have the 3050 volume fairly loud.

I know there is a lot of information out there about the AudioSource AMP100 and the need to make sure that you are not using the interrupting input. I am NOT using that input, I am using the main input as instructed. If the volume of the receiver is not turned up (including turning up those two speakers in the manual setup) I can get a test tone out of them for anywhere between 5-60ish seconds. I called AudioSource and talked with one of the engineers and only after talking with him was I able to get sound out by turning everything up.

I can still tell that these speakers will not engage unless there is enough line-level (power?) input being fed into the AMP100VS. Considering this model is fairly similar to the AMP100 does anyone have any recommendations on how to set this thing up?

Power switch is set to normal (always on), speakers connected to the "A" set, and the 3050 rear presence pre-outs are connected to the "MAIN" input of the AMP100VS. One of the differences with the new model is the inputs are now labeled MAIN (Input 2 on AMP100) and INTERRUPTING (Input 1 on AMP100).

All the speakers are correctly wired with no other issues. I have narrowed the problem to the AMP100VS and its audio sensing ability. I feel this amp should be more than enough to run two rear presence speakers in a 7.2.4 setup and I would prefer to not spend anymore... Help from all of the other more experienced people on this forum would be VERY welcome.
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post #2 of 86 Old 03-02-2016, 01:21 AM
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Even with the volume level of the AMP100 turned up to near maximum (as recommended), owners have found the "auto sensing" capability to be lacking when used to power the "height" speakers. There are several work arounds to include: (1) leave the AMP100 powered on all the time, (2) power the AMP100 on manually, or (3) use a smart power strip to power on the AMP100 when the AVR is powered on.

Edit: The Auto Sensing feature seems to work best with the AMP100 volume set to about 50% which then requires the AVR setting the attached speakers to +12db.

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post #3 of 86 Old 03-02-2016, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I do have the AMP100VS powered on all the time. The switch has three options from left to right: Trigger, Auto On, Normal. I have it set to normal because that leaves it on all of the time. Even with the volume (gain) of the AMP100VS turned all the way up it still won't kick in unless the volume is very high on the RX-a3050. With high volumes it seems to stay on but those volumes are not really normal listening volumes (just too high in some instances). The gain knob does help keep the volume of those speakers at regular volumes but at the needed volume to get the AMP100VS to turn on is too loud in my opinion and unbalanced compared to the other speakers.

At regular volumes trying out the test tones: If I have a test tone playing to one of the rear presence speakers and then manually turn on the AMP100VS I can hear it click on and play a test tone out of those speakers for about 5-60 seconds (volume dependent). I thought that if I could increase the volume signal to those two speakers (in the a3050 manual setup) would help the sensing in the AMP100VS and to a point it does but it still won't work reliably. I am getting the feeling that this amp just isn't going to work for powering presence speakers which is disappointing because the previous model was often recommended for this specific purpose.

Open to other thoughts or ideas. I just need something that will constantly read the signal coming from the a3050 without turning on or off. Emotiva doesn't have a replacement for the Mini-X a-100 yet and they said it will be at least a few more months until they do. I honestly don't think someone needs to spend $400+ in order to run the rear presence speakers.
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post #4 of 86 Old 03-02-2016, 01:07 PM
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Open to other thoughts or ideas. I just need something that will constantly read the signal coming from the a3050 without turning on or off. Emotiva doesn't have a replacement for the Mini-X a-100 yet and they said it will be at least a few more months until they do. I honestly don't think someone needs to spend $400+ in order to run the rear presence speakers.
An alternative that has worked well for me....a bit more than the Amp100 and Mini-X but less than $400:

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-M-5010-2...rds=onkyo+5010
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post #5 of 86 Old 03-04-2016, 09:31 AM
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This could be interesting to follow. The AMP100 has been quite popular around here, and in fact I had earmarked it to power my atmos channels in my coming buildout. Will be a pity if they've changed something that makes it less useful for those purposes.

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post #6 of 86 Old 03-07-2016, 07:52 PM
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I do have the AMP100VS powered on all the time. The switch has three options from left to right: Trigger, Auto On, Normal. I have it set to normal because that leaves it on all of the time. Even with the volume (gain) of the AMP100VS turned all the way up it still won't kick in unless the volume is very high on the RX-a3050. With high volumes it seems to stay on but those volumes are not really normal listening volumes (just too high in some instances). The gain knob does help keep the volume of those speakers at regular volumes but at the needed volume to get the AMP100VS to turn on is too loud in my opinion and unbalanced compared to the other speakers.

At regular volumes trying out the test tones: If I have a test tone playing to one of the rear presence speakers and then manually turn on the AMP100VS I can hear it click on and play a test tone out of those speakers for about 5-60 seconds (volume dependent). I thought that if I could increase the volume signal to those two speakers (in the a3050 manual setup) would help the sensing in the AMP100VS and to a point it does but it still won't work reliably. I am getting the feeling that this amp just isn't going to work for powering presence speakers which is disappointing because the previous model was often recommended for this specific purpose.

Open to other thoughts or ideas. I just need something that will constantly read the signal coming from the a3050 without turning on or off. Emotiva doesn't have a replacement for the Mini-X a-100 yet and they said it will be at least a few more months until they do. I honestly don't think someone needs to spend $400+ in order to run the rear presence speakers.
Connect the amp to the Main preamp out and see if it reacts the same way- if it does, it would seem that the amplifier has a problem but if it's OK, I would check the level setting for the extra channels and see if it's too low to be usable.

Are you using Line 1, or Line 2? Line 2 is the main input. It's odd, but that's what the manual shows and it's what Tech support told me.
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post #7 of 86 Old 03-07-2016, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Connect the amp to the Main preamp out and see if it reacts the same way- if it does, it would seem that the amplifier has a problem but if it's OK, I would check the level setting for the extra channels and see if it's too low to be usable.

Are you using Line 1, or Line 2? Line 2 is the main input. It's odd, but that's what the manual shows and it's what Tech support told me.

They are no longer labeled Line 1 or 2. This is a BRAND NEW replacement model. The AMP100 is no longer made and now the replacement is the AMP100VS. Line 1 is now called the INTERRUPTING input and Line 2 is now called MAIN input. I am using the main input (I even tried it with the interrupting but still a no go)

I am still attempting some different configurations but I honestly do not think this amp will work to power the rear presence speakers. At this time I cannot recommend the AMP100VS like the previous model was.
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post #8 of 86 Old 03-07-2016, 10:56 PM
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Have you tried using 1 of your 3050s trigger outs to the 100vs? Im doing this for my 2 Audiosource Amp 110s, 1 for Atmos speakers, and the 2nd for my Zone 2 speakers on my denon 4100. Works like a charm, with no issues...

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post #9 of 86 Old 03-08-2016, 07:18 AM
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They are no longer labeled Line 1 or 2. This is a BRAND NEW replacement model. The AMP100 is no longer made and now the replacement is the AMP100VS. Line 1 is now called the INTERRUPTING input and Line 2 is now called MAIN input. I am using the main input (I even tried it with the interrupting but still a no go)

I am still attempting some different configurations but I honestly do not think this amp will work to power the rear presence speakers. At this time I cannot recommend the AMP100VS like the previous model was.
I would think about calling their tech support department- they may be able to help.
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post #10 of 86 Old 03-09-2016, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I would think about calling their tech support department- they may be able to help.
I did call their tech support and spoke to one of their engineers. That is how I knew to turn up the volume real loud on the 3050 in order for sound to come out of the rear presence speakers. After a minute or so of no information actively being sent to the AMP100VS or the volume being turned to a more normal listening level then the amp just shuts off. The power is set to normal so that its always on but evidently the 3050 just doesn't send a powerful enough signal for the AMP100VS to keep it on. I have already started the return process and I will continue to look around for something different. If anyone has any other suggestions I would be happy to try them out before I ship it out.
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post #11 of 86 Old 03-09-2016, 11:25 AM
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Wonder if there's a chance it's a bad unit. Seems like if it's set to "always on", yet is still shutting down from lack of enough input on a line level feed, something just isn't quite right. Will be a pity if Audiosource screwed this amp up with the new model given it's price point and popularity for these kinds of uses.

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post #12 of 86 Old 03-09-2016, 03:46 PM
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I did call their tech support and spoke to one of their engineers. That is how I knew to turn up the volume real loud on the 3050 in order for sound to come out of the rear presence speakers. After a minute or so of no information actively being sent to the AMP100VS or the volume being turned to a more normal listening level then the amp just shuts off. The power is set to normal so that its always on but evidently the 3050 just doesn't send a powerful enough signal for the AMP100VS to keep it on. I have already started the return process and I will continue to look around for something different. If anyone has any other suggestions I would be happy to try them out before I ship it out.
I haven't used a lot of Audio Source amps, but I have seen them around for a long time and they seem to be reliable, perform well and decently priced. I would think this happens to be an amp that has a problem, rather than a trend. It's possible that something in the circuit that senses and accepts the input is bad- mass production has done away with almost all of the manufacturing errors that came from human error. I'd try another one and if that does the same thing, I'd consider something else.
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post #13 of 86 Old 03-16-2016, 03:46 PM
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Hi Herb53,
At AudioSource, we really believe Customer Satisfaction comes first- please call us so we can ensure your satisfaction with our product- We are sorry if we did not resolve the problem when you contacted us, but we think we can help.
You can call direct @ 503-914-4688. We would really like to hear from you to get you up and running or replace your unit.
Best Regards,
AudioSource Tech Support
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post #14 of 86 Old 03-17-2016, 04:45 PM
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I am using this amp to power rear ceiling speakers in an Atmos configuration, and had problems with auto mode as well. I am using the pre outs from my Denon 6200w. I called Audio source and Stewart told me to turn down the amp volume to 50% and turn up the level output on my Denon. I ran the test tone and adjusted the level out to +12 Decibels and then adjusted the Audiosource amp volume until I had 75 decibels showing on my SPL meter. Now I have no problems with 'auto' mode. Stewart also said that the amp will go to standby mode after 60 seconds of low volume to protect the life of the amp.
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post #15 of 86 Old 03-18-2016, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I am using this amp to power rear ceiling speakers in an Atmos configuration, and had problems with auto mode as well. I am using the pre outs from my Denon 6200w. I called Audio source and Stewart told me to turn down the amp volume to 50% and turn up the level output on my Denon. I ran the test tone and adjusted the level out to +12 Decibels and then adjusted the Audiosource amp volume until I had 75 decibels showing on my SPL meter. Now I have no problems with 'auto' mode. Stewart also said that the amp will go to standby mode after 60 seconds of low volume to protect the life of the amp.
Apologies for the rant...

The issue I had is that the volume of the receiver has to be turned up too loud for the AMP100VS to kick in and send a signal to the rear presence speakers. If there is not a continuous signal being sent to those speakers then the AMP100VS will turn off after about 60 seconds.

The AMP turning on and off (no matter the well intended design reasons or not) just doesn't make it usable for controlling rear presence speakers because you will be loosing sound information from those speakers while the amp turns on and off. To have a true and fully immersive 7.1.4 experience those speakers need to be constantly active and able to play a signal that is sent to them at any given moment. Waiting for the amp to turn on detracts from the overall experience. If AudioSource can provide an amp that will stay on while connected to my receiver and always play what ever information is sent to those speakers then I will try them again.

The point I have repeatedly made through this thread is that the amp always turns itself off after it no longer senses a signal being sent to the speakers regardless of the Power Sensing mode switch. This effect is so profound that while I am setting up YPAO on the RX-a3050 that the signal input time takes too long and at least the first rear presence speaker causes confusion with the setup. Again, making this amp unusable for powering presence speakers IMHO. I like the quality, build, and ease of use of the amplifier but the automatic turning on/off regardless of the power mode switch does not work for an ATMOS or DTS:X setup. No amount of fine tuning volume knobs is going to change that if after 60 seconds of no input it just shuts off. Presence speakers are NOT continuously used and will not always have a continuous signal being sent to them.

If someone disagrees with how ATMOS and DTS:X work please let me know. AudioSource has built a nice amp that theoretically can power presence speakers just fine except for the signal turning off.
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post #16 of 86 Old 03-22-2016, 10:00 AM
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Apologies for the rant...

The issue I had is that the volume of the receiver has to be turned up too loud for the AMP100VS to kick in and send a signal to the rear presence speakers. If there is not a continuous signal being sent to those speakers then the AMP100VS will turn off after about 60 seconds.

The AMP turning on and off (no matter the well intended design reasons or not) just doesn't make it usable for controlling rear presence speakers because you will be loosing sound information from those speakers while the amp turns on and off. To have a true and fully immersive 7.1.4 experience those speakers need to be constantly active and able to play a signal that is sent to them at any given moment. Waiting for the amp to turn on detracts from the overall experience. If AudioSource can provide an amp that will stay on while connected to my receiver and always play what ever information is sent to those speakers then I will try them again.

The point I have repeatedly made through this thread is that the amp always turns itself off after it no longer senses a signal being sent to the speakers regardless of the Power Sensing mode switch. This effect is so profound that while I am setting up YPAO on the RX-a3050 that the signal input time takes too long and at least the first rear presence speaker causes confusion with the setup. Again, making this amp unusable for powering presence speakers IMHO. I like the quality, build, and ease of use of the amplifier but the automatic turning on/off regardless of the power mode switch does not work for an ATMOS or DTS:X setup. No amount of fine tuning volume knobs is going to change that if after 60 seconds of no input it just shuts off. Presence speakers are NOT continuously used and will not always have a continuous signal being sent to them.

If someone disagrees with how ATMOS and DTS:X work please let me know. AudioSource has built a nice amp that theoretically can power presence speakers just fine except for the signal turning off.
Hi Herb,
please call us at 503-914-4688 so we can help- we really like our customers to be satisfied with our products and we think we can help. We are sorry we did not get the issue resolved the first time you called, but we can help get you up and running or replace your unit.

Best Regards,
AudioSource Tech Support
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post #17 of 86 Old 03-22-2016, 10:21 AM
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Hi Herb,
please call us at 503-914-4688 so we can help- we really like our customers to be satisfied with our products and we think we can help. We are sorry we did not get the issue resolved the first time you called, but we can help get you up and running or replace your unit.

Best Regards,
AudioSource Tech Support
Hi Mr. Tech Support guy. Quick question. Can you confirm if there were any design changes between the Amp100 and Amp100VS with regards to the "always on" normal mode and input sensing? Much like the OP in this thread, my intent with the amp was to have it on a triggered power strip so that it powers up whenever the main system is powered up. If the Amp has been designed to power down or go into standby on no signal, even in Normal mode, that would indeed present a problem using it for FX speakers such as Atmos channels. Those channels are quite likely to have long periods with no signal. If the Amp shuts off or goes into any manner of standby during this time, it would render it pretty much unusable for this purpose as you would definitely lose part of the sound waiting for the amp to resume.

In short, should the Amp100VS stay on in Normal mode even if there is no signal coming from the input?

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post #18 of 86 Old 03-22-2016, 06:40 PM
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Hi Herb,
please call us at 503-914-4688 so we can help- we really like our customers to be satisfied with our products and we think we can help. We are sorry we did not get the issue resolved the first time you called, but we can help get you up and running or replace your unit.

Best Regards,
AudioSource Tech Support
Im having the same issue. Have not played with it much yet, but seems like it takes awhile for the power to kick the height speakers on when running through test patterns.

Will call support when I get a chance.

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post #19 of 86 Old 03-24-2016, 07:04 AM
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Apologies for the rant...

The issue I had is that the volume of the receiver has to be turned up too loud for the AMP100VS to kick in and send a signal to the rear presence speakers. If there is not a continuous signal being sent to those speakers then the AMP100VS will turn off after about 60 seconds.

The AMP turning on and off (no matter the well intended design reasons or not) just doesn't make it usable for controlling rear presence speakers because you will be loosing sound information from those speakers while the amp turns on and off. To have a true and fully immersive 7.1.4 experience those speakers need to be constantly active and able to play a signal that is sent to them at any given moment. Waiting for the amp to turn on detracts from the overall experience. If AudioSource can provide an amp that will stay on while connected to my receiver and always play what ever information is sent to those speakers then I will try them again.

The point I have repeatedly made through this thread is that the amp always turns itself off after it no longer senses a signal being sent to the speakers regardless of the Power Sensing mode switch. This effect is so profound that while I am setting up YPAO on the RX-a3050 that the signal input time takes too long and at least the first rear presence speaker causes confusion with the setup. Again, making this amp unusable for powering presence speakers IMHO. I like the quality, build, and ease of use of the amplifier but the automatic turning on/off regardless of the power mode switch does not work for an ATMOS or DTS:X setup. No amount of fine tuning volume knobs is going to change that if after 60 seconds of no input it just shuts off. Presence speakers are NOT continuously used and will not always have a continuous signal being sent to them.

If someone disagrees with how ATMOS and DTS:X work please let me know. AudioSource has built a nice amp that theoretically can power presence speakers just fine except for the signal turning off.
FYI I talked to AudioSource about this issue. Apparently the first batch of amps was designed to auto-shut off even in normal mode, if no signal was detected above a certain threshold. Apparently these rear height channels have an incredibly low signal, which is not enough to trigger the amp to stay engaged. They had not intended the amps to be used in the method a lot of us are trying.

This issue has been fixed in subsequent revisions, so the amp will just stay on and powered in normal mode, as expected. As a work around you can try to lower the sound level on the amp and increase the signal output from the AVR.

Very friendly and helpful on the phone. They are sending me an updated version that will stay on in normal mode as one would expect it to behave in that setting.

Try giving them a call.

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post #20 of 86 Old 03-25-2016, 07:28 AM
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Good news. Now if only they'd make a good 4 channel amp in a similar price range.
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post #21 of 86 Old 04-03-2016, 09:51 AM
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I still can't get this 12v trigger working for some reason.

I have an x4200. I bought a mono 3.5 mm cable as suggested. I have tried trigger 1 and trigger 2. Cable is going into the trigger-in port on my Amp100VS to power my rear height speakers. The power button for the amp100VS is pushed in, and the amp is plugged in. Amp is switched to "trigger" mode.

I plugged in the cables with the Denon unplugged. The triggers are switched to "on" in the settings menu on the AVR.

I get no change in behavior when I power the receiver on/off. The amp light stays on and red, never changes to the green to indicate is in on, and if I send a signal to the rear height speakers I get no sound.
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post #22 of 86 Old 04-03-2016, 10:50 AM
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I still can't get this 12v trigger working for some reason.

I have an x4200. I bought a mono 3.5 mm cable as suggested. I have tried trigger 1 and trigger 2. Cable is going into the trigger-in port on my Amp100VS to power my rear height speakers. The power button for the amp100VS is pushed in, and the amp is plugged in. Amp is switched to "trigger" mode.

I plugged in the cables with the Denon unplugged. The triggers are switched to "on" in the settings menu on the AVR.

I get no change in behavior when I power the receiver on/off. The amp light stays on and red, never changes to the green to indicate is in on, and if I send a signal to the rear height speakers I get no sound.
Just to be sure, did you make sure the triggers were active in the menu settings on the AVR? I'm not sure if they're on by default.
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post #23 of 86 Old 04-03-2016, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moebius View Post
Just to be sure, did you make sure the triggers were active in the menu settings on the AVR? I'm not sure if they're on by default.
Yep I have everything turned to "on" for both trigger 1 and trigger 2.

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post #24 of 86 Old 04-04-2016, 11:17 AM
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interesting topic.
I just purchased a 102vs for my Zone 2.
I had a x4000 and used the extra internal amp for zone 2. But I wanted to give Atmos a try so I upgraded to a x4200 and used the internal amp for the upfiring atmos speakers and now needed a Zone 2 amp for the patio.

I can test a few scenerios out but my setup is more simple then whats posted above.
I didn't have to setup Audyssey.
I am using the auto trigger for zone 2. When I enable zone 2 it pwrs the amp on from standby and worked flawlessly.
I understand this is not a low level input like Atmos etc....
Please keep us updated on your results.
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post #25 of 86 Old 04-28-2016, 08:58 AM
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Same issues with Audiosource AMP210

So based on the comments here I also went out and bought an Audiosource Amp, in my case the 210AMP

I have bought this amp to add two additional channels to my 9.1 setup to get to 11.1(or 9.1.2 Atmos) My receiver is a Pioneer SC-LX59 (Euro version of the US Pioneer Elite SC-95.

everything is connected and working but not exactly how I thought it would.

The auto sensing function does not work to my liking always switching on too late. Orange lights stay on and only if I crank the volume up on for example the Atmos demo disc will they light up in green and work. If the wide speakers are not used for like a minute it switches off again. I want the amp to run non stop as long as my receiver is on

So i tried the 12v trigger per the post above
Connected to trigger 1 on my Pioneer and trigger in on the Audiosource. The switch set to trigger as well. On my pioneer in the HDMI setup menu I set the 12V trigger to on and on HDMI 1 Out (which is the correct HDMI out) The lights are always switched off. If it switch to HDMI 2 out same thing, if i switch to HDMI 3 out (which auto senses 12v trigger 1 and 2 they light up in orange.
When i play the Atmos disk they never light up in green but remain on orange or off depending on this HDMI out setting

What am I doing wrong here?

Further question

the master volume at the back is turned up to max and so is the volume on the front. What is the correct setting for type of setup. I will run MCACC again if this is not correct...

Last edited by Celso; 04-28-2016 at 05:07 PM.
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post #26 of 86 Old 05-06-2016, 06:00 AM
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Hmm, I too have a Denon 6200 and ordered this AMP100VS amp (should be here today). I plan to power my front wides with it.

Fingers crossed this will be the updated version... I got it from Amazon.
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post #27 of 86 Old 05-07-2016, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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So after my initial troubles with the new AMP100VS I did end up returning it to Amazon. A few days later AudioSource did make contact but I had already returned it. After more research I recently ordered a 300 Watt Amp from Monoprice (http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=11497). It was delivered while I was out of town but once I got back it took me about 3 minutes to have it up and running. It works great and has ZERO problems running my rear presence speakers. It has enough power that I could easily set it to run the left and right front speakers. It sounds like AudioSource may have fixed the problems with the amplifier since I started this thread and in the future I will have no problem trying one of their amps again. For now I am very happy with the model on Monoprice and I encourage others to look into it. Sign up for their e-mails and they always have sales and free shipping options.
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post #28 of 86 Old 05-07-2016, 10:12 AM
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The AMP100VS did come in yesterday. I'm happy to report that I have no issues with it cutting out. It is feeding my rear height speakers. I have the power switch on "normal" (always on) and it acts just like you would expect.
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post #29 of 86 Old 05-07-2016, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post
I still can't get this 12v trigger working for some reason.

I have an x4200. I bought a mono 3.5 mm cable as suggested. I have tried trigger 1 and trigger 2. Cable is going into the trigger-in port on my Amp100VS to power my rear height speakers. The power button for the amp100VS is pushed in, and the amp is plugged in. Amp is switched to "trigger" mode.

I plugged in the cables with the Denon unplugged. The triggers are switched to "on" in the settings menu on the AVR.

I get no change in behavior when I power the receiver on/off. The amp light stays on and red, never changes to the green to indicate is in on, and if I send a signal to the rear height speakers I get no sound.
Did you ever get the trigger function to work with your X4200?
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post #30 of 86 Old 05-12-2016, 05:16 PM
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As I reported above, with the power switch on "normal" everything works as expected. Today my 1/8" mono cable came in, so I connected it to one of the 12V trigger outs on the Denon and to the 12V trigger in on the AMP100VS. It does not turn on with the AVR. I checked that I have 12V on the AMP100VS end of the 1/8 jack, I do.

Guess there is an issue with the 12V trigger on these AMP100VS units?
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