"Official" Audyssey thread Part II - Page 121 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3601 of 6878 Old 08-21-2017, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I'm sorry that XT-32 seems to be introducing a big dip at about 40Hz, and I can't account for it. XT-32 has 4096 control points (taps) available to the .1 channel, though, which allows for fairly precise adjustments to the frequency response. I am having a hard time believing that Audyssey aimed at 50Hz and hit 40Hz instead. But, I don't have another explanation to suggest.

Presumably your subs are already in the best positions you can put them before Audyssey attempts to EQ the response? I ask because I see a lot of peaks and valleys above 50Hz, both with and without Audyssey. Room treatments certainly help, but below about 120Hz it takes fairly thick bass traps, and perhaps a lot of them, to have a very significant effect on the FR.

To your point of just leaving Audyssey off, though, I think that is always an option with any version of Audyssey. Measurements notwithstanding, I think that our ears need to be the final judge of what Audyssey is doing. For instance, I have fairly extensive bass trapping (among other treatments) in my large room. The good news is that I have excellent bass reinforcement and low frequency containment in the room. The bad news is that the irregular geometry in the room creates a lot of peaks and dips which I just can't tame without room correction.

The other day, I decided to experiment with some things again, and tried turning XT-32 off for the first time in a while. My bass below about 80Hz or 100Hz sounded very occluded without Audyssey. After becoming used to a clearer sound, that boomier sound is just unlistenable to me. Irrespective of other portions of the frequency range (and Audyssey also helps with my mid-range frequencies, and doesn't adversely affect my treble) I would use Audyssey solely for the mid-bass frequencies and below.

But, that is the bottom line for me. If you can't hear a difference with Audyssey on, then it doesn't matter whether it's on or not. If the sound is definitely better with it off, and you are convinced that you can't improve it with further experimentation, then just leave Audyssey off.

I wish I could offer some additional trouble-shooting suggestions, but other than initial subwoofer placement, I can't think of any.

Regards,
Mike
I have quite a lot of 6 inch 2x4ft traps around the room, and the corners are completely covered with GIK tri traps. Overall I have about 35% wall coverage, and 80% of it is 6 inch panels. The remaining 20% of it is 4 inch panels.

Wonder if this is the cause. It's weird to me that 25-40hz has almost zero ringing, the exact spot Audyssey causes the wide dip in. Then some pretty large ringing in the 50+ areas. Perhaps I need to find tune my sub placement more.
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post #3602 of 6878 Old 08-21-2017, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post
I have quite a lot of 6 inch 2x4ft traps around the room, and the corners are completely covered with GIK tri traps. Overall I have about 35% wall coverage, and 80% of it is 6 inch panels. The remaining 20% of it is 4 inch panels.

Wonder if this is the cause. It's weird to me that 25-40hz has almost zero ringing, the exact spot Audyssey causes the wide dip in. Then some pretty large ringing in the 50+ areas. Perhaps I need to find tune my sub placement more.
With all of those treatments, I am quite surprised that your bass response is so poor pre-Audyssey. Have you exhausted all subwoofer placement options to try and flatten the response a bit more before presenting it to Audyssey?

A tripod is not the best support to use for the Audyssey mic...inevitably, at least one leg is sitting on top of a piece of furniture. Depending on the resonant frequency of said furniture, this can sometimes effect the Audyssey measurements...sometimes quite severely. I would suggest investing in a boom mic stand instead.

Lastly, it could be a bad Audyssey mic.
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post #3603 of 6878 Old 08-21-2017, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
With all of those treatments, I am quite surprised that your bass response is so poor pre-Audyssey. Have you exhausted all subwoofer placement options to try and flatten the response a bit more before presenting it to Audyssey?

A tripod is not the best support to use for the Audyssey mic...inevitably, at least one leg is sitting on top of a piece of furniture. Depending on the resonant frequency of said furniture, this can sometimes effect the Audyssey measurements...sometimes quite severely. I would suggest investing in a boom mic stand instead.

Lastly, it could be a bad Audyssey mic.
I tried both subs in front corners, 1/4 out from front corners, opposite corners, and one sub center on backwall with another sub in the front in various places. I haven't tried to the left and right of sofa because it won't work in this setup. Every position I try has the same problem on the waterfall, which makes me believe that's whats confusing audyssey. I don't really know what to do at this point, I spent a LOT of money on treatment and building this dedicated HT room. 23x17x10 should be good dimensions with little problems.

Another problem I am having is moving the subs around gets WIDELY different results until I run audyssey once and it sets the delays. Should I just set delays to 0 and find the best spots? My current method is pretty tedious. Move subs, run audyssey once to get delays correct, turn it off to see response. Dual subs in a pain in the butt.

Also I have a dip right at crossover (80hz), and nothing I do fixes it. I tried moving the mic forward and backward 1-2 feet, adjusting the phases on the subs, and also adjusting the delays +/- 10 feet in 1 foot increments. Nothing fixes that crossover dip...

Here's both subs in the front corners 1/4 off the side walls.... Same story despite vastly different positions. Dark green is audyssey off. What on earth could cause 25-40hz to have zero ringing, then 50-80 to have tons? That doesn't make sense to me given this much treatment.
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post #3604 of 6878 Old 08-21-2017, 05:57 PM
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My theory appears to have been correct. Using the PEQ on my subs I turned down 50hz with a 5.7 Q filter range by -12dB. This was the result after audyssey. To test if it was a fluke, I reset the PEQ on my subs and re-ran audyssey and the problem returned. Exact same mic positions. This is very baffling that this worked, this more or less proves audyssey was bugging out in my room and turning down the wrong frequencies...?

Everything here looks very good to my eyes, other than the dip after the 80hz crossover.
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post #3605 of 6878 Old 08-21-2017, 06:13 PM
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Here's the results after fine tweaking the sub distance setting to fix that crossover phase problem. Seems... good to me?

My friend has the same audyssey mic model #, so he will be bringing his mic this weekend just to compare results with my mic.
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post #3606 of 6878 Old 08-21-2017, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post
Here's the results after fine tweaking the sub distance setting to fix that crossover phase problem. Seems... good to me?

My friend has the same audyssey mic model #, so he will be bringing his mic this weekend just to compare results with my mic.
Much, Much better! Congratulations!

There is no reason why your room shouldn't sound fine, with all your treatments, so I'm glad you finally got good results. Your room proportions fit in Bolt's contour (just barely, but in, nonetheless). I know it is verboten to think about "magic proportions" nowadays, other than avoiding a square or a cube, but yours are in the zone, so your eigentons should be happy.. So, good treatments, good proportions, and Audyssey no longer confused -- who could ask fir anything more?
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post #3607 of 6878 Old 08-21-2017, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
Much, Much better! Congratulations!

There is no reason why your room shouldn't sound fine, with all your treatments, so I'm glad you finally got good results. Your room proportions fit in Bolt's contour (just barely, but in, nonetheless). I know it is verboten to think about "magic proportions" nowadays, other than avoiding a square or a cube, but yours are in the zone, so your eigentons should be happy.. So, good treatments, good proportions, and Audyssey no longer confused -- who could ask fir anything more?

Thanks. Here's 5 positions averaged (one dead center of MLP, and 4 about 6" around it). It suffers a little bit over the above 1 mic position but overall seems pretty good? More or less +/- 5dB with a few mild exceptions.

Part of me wants to keep going and try to get it better by inching my subs/sofa around, but then I'm always afraid i'll do something and never get it as good again, lol.
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post #3608 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
Dynamic Volume is compressing the dynamic range of your music. Listen that way if you like, but for me it's the opposite of what I want when I listen to music.

Dynamic Volume is handy when you can't hear the dialogue clearly because you have the volume turned down in order not to have your ears blown out <g> or your neighbors disturbed by explosive sound effects. That's the only time I use it.
Ya but it also increases the Volume even if you're listening at lower volumes. I feel Dynamic EQ is not much of a help as it increases Bass and treble leaving behind the Mid range. This feature of Audyssey is almost useless. Without mid range one cannot enjoy the warmth of a music.
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post #3609 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
That corresponds to what Keith put in the FAQ. I'm just not sure that it is correct. Of course, depending on how you interpreted what Chris said, several filters (at 4096 control points per filter) would add up to more than 10,000.

I'm not sure how much effort we want to put into this issue, anyway though, when it comes to the subwoofer channel. Even if we assume that XT-32 is EQing every individual frequency from 200Hz (or 400Hz if any subwoofers can make meaningful sounds that high) down to 10Hz, it is difficult for me to understand how the algorithm could use more control points than there are individual frequencies to control. (400 - 10 = 390.) So, it seems to me that for the .1 channel, whether there were 10,000 taps, or "only" 4096, XT-32 would only be able to use a fraction of the number of control points available to it.

Regards,
Mike
I have read that number (>10,000) numerous times from Chris K and others even relating that to each filter (per channel) in my understanding.
As far as I understood this, each channel got just one single filter constructed of up to 10,000 control points depending on the number of problems found. In relation to the frequency range the time window (task cycle) for each section varies: low frequencies => slow, higher frequencies => faster.
This has been provided as an argument that the jump from MultEQ XT to XT32 has made the large increase of control points possible without needing a lot more DSP-bandwidth.

What I found in addition is this:

Quote:
Flavors of MultEQ
Audyssey room correction technology comes in four solutions: MultEQ XT32, MultEQ XT, MultEQ and 2EQ. While they are all built on the same core science, each is designed to operate within the constraints of the available DSP processing power.

MultEQ XT32
Our newest and most accurate room correction solution with more than ten thousand individual control points allowing finer details of the room’s problems to be captured and corrected. The ultra high resolution filters are applied to all channels including the subwoofers, with the most obvious benefit being heard in the low frequency range where correction is needed the most.
MultEQ XT

Our advanced resolution room correction solution with high resolution equalization filters for satellites and subwoofers. Most products with MultEQ XT are
installer-ready and can be calibrated by an Audyssey Registered Installer to provide even higher performance for even the most demanding large or odd-shaped rooms.
MultEQ
Our standard resolution room correction solution that uses mid-level resolution filters for satellites and subwoofers.
2EQ
Our basic resolution room correction solution that uses basic resolution filters for the satellites, but does not apply a filter to the subwoofers.


MultEQ Comparison Chart

Features MultEQ XT32 MultEQ XT MultEQ 2EQ
Filter resolution (satellites)
512x 16x 2x x
Filter resolution (subwoofer) 512x 128x 128x N/A
Number of Measurement Positions 8* 8* 6 3
Adaptive Low Frequency Correction Yes Yes Yes N/A
Crossover, Polarity, Delays, Levels Yes Yes Yes Yes


Note: some formatting got lost somehow in that quote above...

The number of control points mentioned (>10,000) plus the multiplier (512) for XT32 got me to that calculation, because 20 * 512 = 10,240 (>10,000) is the nearest value I arrived at.
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post #3610 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post
Here's the results after fine tweaking the sub distance setting to fix that crossover phase problem. Seems... good to me?

My friend has the same audyssey mic model #, so he will be bringing his mic this weekend just to compare results with my mic.
Happy to see you got it sorted! That is a very nice looking graph...BUT, how does it SOUND??
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post #3611 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by gurkey View Post
I have read that number (>10,000) numerous times from Chris K and others even relating that to each filter (per channel) in my understanding...
Kudos for raising a valid point.
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post #3612 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Happy to see you got it sorted! That is a very nice looking graph...BUT, how does it SOUND??
I generally prefer having both subs up front being it's more "in your face" especially for music. In my old room I tried all those recommended dual sub positions, and I could always isolate the sub in the back even with a 80hz crossover. So far not having that problem in this much larger ~3900 CU room. However, in this larger room both subs up front really doesn't give even bass unless I move the sofa too close to the front.

My waterfall I think is the biggest problem. I reposted my waterfall from the previous posts since the decay times are virtually the same even with the good frequency sweep. There's gotta be a reason why audyssey was doing what it was doing, and I think my decay times is what confused it. I can hear 25-40hz decay faster than 40-80hz in some scenes because it's decay time is like 3-4 times longer, but that's mainly because I know what I am listening for and I have super sensitive ears. 99% would never notice...

I will likely get some bass panels that target the 40-80hz range, but I really risk over deadening the room. Honestly the room already might be a bit too dead with ~160ms decay times, and 90hz+. 35% coverage is a lot of absorption. There might be a way to re-arrange my panels and deaden some of that without getting more panels. Best way to do that is to play some 50-70hz waves and walk around the room I'd imagine?

Whats the ideal decay time for <80hz?
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post #3613 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 11:22 AM
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^^^

If I was you, I would continue this conversation in the REW thread. But...

Passive bass traps that will effect <80hz are excessively large...usually too large for most rooms. A helmholz resonator is really the only solution for helping with the really low stuff....well, that, or more subs.

Extend the window on your waterfall to 450ms to see a more meaningful representation. Also, post up the spectrogram (15hz-200hz).

Sorry if I missed it, but did you tell us what subs you are currently using??
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post #3614 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 11:29 AM
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Most DIY Helmholtz resonators are hard to tune for the exact frequency they had been designed for originally for one reason or another.
Another alternative would be a D(ouble) B(ass) A(rray) - DBA, which solves the same problems in a completely different way by "killing" the resonances (room modes) through interference.
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post #3615 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
^^^

If I was you, I would continue this conversation in the REW thread. But...

Passive bass traps that will effect <80hz are excessively large...usually too large for most rooms. A helmholz resonator is really the only solution for helping with the really low stuff....well, that, or more subs.

Extend the window on your waterfall to 450ms to see a more meaningful representation. Also, post up the spectrogram (15hz-200hz).

Sorry if I missed it, but did you tell us what subs you are currently using??
GIK acoustics wants me to buy these to target 50hz: http://www.gikacoustics.com/product-...ne-bass-traps/

Super expensive, and I'd probably need a lot of them to make a big difference. Not sure if it's really worth it, not sure how big the issue really is. Sounds pretty great to me already and I have virtually no extra spending money currently cause I just built this room. I think it's about time to call it "good enough".

I am using dual SVS PB13 Ultras in 16hz mode.
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post #3616 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 01:14 PM
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^^^

WF definitely looks better at 450ms, but you have something strange going on from 40-60hz which looks like a phase issue to me. You still haven't said what subs you are using, and I have a couple more questions:

- Are your speakers set to "small"?
- Where are your crossovers set?
- Have you time-aligned the subs to each other?
- Have you time-aligned the subs to the mains (i.e. "Sub Distance Tweak")?
- Are you in the US or in Europe?
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post #3617 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
^^^

WF definitely looks better at 450ms, but you have something strange going on from 40-60hz which looks like a phase issue to me. You still haven't said what subs you are using, and I have a couple more questions:

- Are your speakers set to "small"?
- Where are your crossovers set?
- Have you time-aligned the subs to each other?
- Have you time-aligned the subs to the mains (i.e. "Sub Distance Tweak")?
- Are you in the US or in Europe?
It's in the previous post, dual SVS PB13 ultras.

Yes
80hz
I'm not really sure how to properly time allign. I run audyssey, which causes the common dip at crossover, I then randomly increase and decrease the sub distances until the dip is fixed. I think I am at +3 and +4 feet on the subs to fix the dip, which was a tweak suggested to me in the past. If I don't do it, the setup sounds significantly worse with rock music. Should I adjust both subs distances the same?
US

Subs are at 0 phase, and I did have to turn 50hz down by -12dB on each subs PEQ in order for audyssey to stop screwing everything up. I do not know what could possibly be causing any phase issues in that range, perhaps my room dimensions just boost those frequencies a lot. I see the same results no matter where I put the subs or mic.

Exact room dimensions are 22' 2" x 16' 8" x 10' 2". Sofa is centered, 9 feet from back wall 13 feet from front wall. Completely sealed room.

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post #3618 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 02:05 PM
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^^^

Ooops, sorry I missed you listing your subs.

Are you using Audyssey XT32 then? If so, it should time-align the subs to each other without issue.

When performing the sub distance tweak, you do indeed want to add/subtract distance equally on both subs so that the subs stay aligned with each other. With the SDT, you are aligning the entire sub "system" with the Mains and/or Center channel.

Here is the long version.

And here is a condensed version:
  • Measure CC+subs (REW HDMI CH3)
  • Add to the sub distance setting (both subs equally if using an AVR with dual sub calibration) in 1' increments (on some AVRs you must make sure to back out of the distance setting menu before the new setting will take effect)
  • Re-measure
  • Repeat until you get the smoothest transition over the crossover
  • You can repeat the process with the L/R+sub, but will usually have to compromise the CC+subs to get them all fairly smooth (if you are primarily movies, balance the compromise in favor of CC+sub, if music the L/R+sub)
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post #3619 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
^^^

Ooops, sorry I missed you listing your subs.

Are you using Audyssey XT32 then? If so, it should time-align the subs to each other without issue.

When performing the sub distance tweak, you do indeed want to add/subtract distance equally on both subs so that the subs stay aligned with each other. With the SDT, you are aligning the entire sub "system" with the Mains and/or Center channel.

Here is the long version.

And here is a condensed version:
  • Measure CC+subs (REW HDMI CH3)
  • Add to the sub distance setting (both subs equally if using an AVR with dual sub calibration) in 1' increments (on some AVRs you must make sure to back out of the distance setting menu before the new setting will take effect)
  • Re-measure
  • Repeat until you get the smoothest transition over the crossover
  • You can repeat the process with the L/R+sub, but will usually have to compromise the CC+subs to get them all fairly smooth (if you are primarily movies, balance the compromise in favor of CC+sub, if music the L/R+sub)
Yes, those results are XT32 with +4 feet on Sub1 and +3 feet on Sub2 adjustments. I will set them both to +3, might be the phase issue you are seeing. I did L/R+subs, but your reasoning to do CC+subs makes sense, i'll probably go back over it in the near future.

Overall, I think I can call this good enough. I have a hard time imaging it could sound much better. I kind of want to tame that 50hz decay but that's $$$ and I doubt it'd even be a very noticeable improvement.
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post #3620 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post
Exact room dimensions are 22' 2" x 16' 8" x 10' 2". Sofa is centered, 9 feet from back wall 13 feet from front wall. Completely sealed room.
I am not the smartest when it comes to calculating room modes, but by punching your room dimensions into this calculator, I see that the wavelength at 51hz is exactly 22' 2"...that's gotta mean something, but like I said, I'm not sure what.
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post #3621 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I am not the smartest when it comes to calculating room modes, but by punching your room dimensions into this calculator, I see that the wavelength at 51hz is exactly 22' 2"...that's gotta mean something, but like I said, I'm not sure what.
In the process of building the room I measured it out and used that same calculator. I noticed that too, and wanted to go about a foot longer but that was the existing house dimension. Likely why I see a higher decay at 50hz than any other frequency.

At the end of the day, even "perfect" dimensions have problems and we end up having to treat the problems and/or EQ them out as best as we can. I think it's time to call this "good enough". It sounds great to my ears.

Thanks for your help.
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post #3622 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post
In the process of building the room I measured it out and used that same calculator. I noticed that too, and wanted to go about a foot longer but that was the existing house dimension. Likely why I see a higher decay at 50hz than any other frequency.

At the end of the day, even "perfect" dimensions have problems and we end up having to treat the problems and/or EQ them out as best as we can. I think it's time to call this "good enough". It sounds great to my ears.

Thanks for your help.
If it's good enough, it's good enough. I remember a time when people did none of this, and some had very good sound, others less so. You can always run movies and listen to music for a few years, then, perhaps revisit the issue. When I did that, I studied up a little, then said "**** it, it's good enough!" And it is.

Just don't over deaden your room.
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post #3623 of 6878 Old 08-22-2017, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post
Yes, those results are XT32 with +4 feet on Sub1 and +3 feet on Sub2 adjustments. I will set them both to +3, might be the phase issue you are seeing. I did L/R+subs, but your reasoning to do CC+subs makes sense, i'll probably go back over it in the near future.

Overall, I think I can call this good enough. I have a hard time imaging it could sound much better. I kind of want to tame that 50hz decay but that's $$$ and I doubt it'd even be a very noticeable improvement.

FWIW, it's worth, I agree with you, and Alan, and Gary, that it's time to call it a day and just enjoy things as they are. If you had an issue at 80Hz or 100Hz, I believe that it might be more noticeable. But, an issue at 50Hz is much less likely to be audible, and our brains tend to compensate pretty well for low frequency anomalies, anyway. If you had a big peak at 50Hz, it might be different, but you have already pulled that down. So, I think that things look good now, and if they also sound good, then you're all set.

Regards,
Mike
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post #3624 of 6878 Old 08-25-2017, 01:48 AM
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The number of control points mentioned (>10,000) plus the multiplier (512) for XT32 got me to that calculation, because 20 * 512 = 10,240 (>10,000) is the nearest value I arrived at.
The topic of filter resolution of different versions of Audissey and control points/taps was discussed long time ago already. You can find it here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post32016633

Basically the outcome is that 'x' is equal to 32 (effective) taps assuming the sampling frequency is 48kHz (true for all implementations of Audyssey up to today AFAIK). 'Effective' because XT32 uses multirate filters to optimize processing resources and it doesn't have as many taps as formula would suggest, but the filter resolution in the end is still as if the filter would have all the taps according to the formula (remember 'x' is the resolution constant, not the number of physical taps).
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post #3625 of 6878 Old 08-27-2017, 04:43 AM
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I have a question about volume and reference level of Dynamic EQ. I understand that the effect of DEQ decreases the closer the volume is to reference level. However, I have some recordings that have been recorded at lower volume than the rest of my music. How does Audyssey know how loud the recording is to adjust the EQ proportionally? For example, if the volume is set to reference level but the music is relatively much quieter than what DEQ expects at that volume, does it apply zero correction?
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post #3626 of 6878 Old 08-27-2017, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by anoutsos View Post
I have a question about volume and reference level of Dynamic EQ. I understand that the effect of DEQ decreases the closer the volume is to reference level. However, I have some recordings that have been recorded at lower volume than the rest of my music. How does Audyssey know how loud the recording is to adjust the EQ proportionally? For example, if the volume is set to reference level but the music is relatively much quieter than what DEQ expects at that volume, does it apply zero correction?
Hi,

The way DEQ works is strictly related to your master volume. When Audyssey first calibrates your system, it does so with respect to Reference for 5.1 movies. "Reference" for the purposes of calibration means that at a master volume of 0.0, your regular channels are playing at an average volume of 85db and your .1 LFE channel is playing at an average volume of 95db, as measured at the MLP (main listening position). Then, assuming that your audio system is capable of achieving those levels, your regular channels will play any peaks up to 105db and your .1 LFE channel will play peaks up to 115db in 5.1 movies. And, all 5.1 movies are intended to have maximum peaks of 105db in the regular channels and 115db in the LFE channel, so your HT system will be in correspondence with 5.1 movie Reference at a master volume of 0.0.

DEQ was created specifically to compensate for reduced bass and treble in 5.1 movies, played at below Reference volumes, and it automatically adds boosts in accordance with its programming as you reduce your master volume below 0.0. But, since it was created specifically for Reference levels of 5.1 movies, and since music doesn't have any Reference standards, DEQ really bears no relationship at all to music listening. However, that is not to say that you might not still enjoy using it for music, or that it might not still work fine for that purpose.

But, to answer your question, Audyssey will have no way of knowing the recording level of your music. It will simply add boost as your listening volume drops below 0.0, in accordance with its programming. Those boosts may sound just right or they may not. You may be able to make the boosts sound more appropriate, via the Reference Level Offset settings, or you may not. The use of DEQ for music and TV shows is even more a YMMV matter than it is for 5.1 movies. Some people enjoy using DEQ for everything and some don't. I suspect that it is likely to work best, for music, in situations where your listening volume is pretty constant, and DEQ's effects can be fairly constant and predictable as well.

Regards,
Mike
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Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #3627 of 6878 Old 08-27-2017, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anoutsos View Post
I have a question about volume and reference level of Dynamic EQ. I understand that the effect of DEQ decreases the closer the volume is to reference level. However, I have some recordings that have been recorded at lower volume than the rest of my music. How does Audyssey know how loud the recording is to adjust the EQ proportionally? For example, if the volume is set to reference level but the music is relatively much quieter than what DEQ expects at that volume, does it apply zero correction?
As Mike said, there is no standard recording level for music so Audyssey cannot take it into account. DEQ is designed for use with soundtracks where there is a standard it is based on.

Having said that, in the Audyssey settings there is a setting called "Reference Level Offset" which is intended to help with playback of material which isn't mastered to the soundtrack standard. You can try experimenting with the options in that setting to see if one of them works better for you but be aware that different music recordings may require different settings, you may not find one you're happy with, and you'll need to reset the setting to the default 0 dB reference setting when you want to watch a movie.

If I remember correctly from earlier discussions of this setting here, Reference Level Offset introduces lower levels of DEQ so it is aimed at material mastered at a higher level than movie soundtracks which would mean it would make things worse for content mastered at lower levels so it may not help you at all but it is the only setting available which modifies the amount of correction DEQ applies.
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post #3628 of 6878 Old 09-01-2017, 06:47 PM
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Where is everybody?

Why would playing a certain disk turn Audyssey off? Specifically, when I run "The Classic Film Scores of Franz Waxman" in my OPPO player, Audyssey goes off, as does the Audyssey indicator light on my Marantz pre-pro. This results in somewhat duller sound than I'm used to, and deprives me of what may be yet another marvelous recording by K. E. Willkinson. When I then go to Audio Adjust, I find that all mention of Audyssey is gone.

The disk is from High Definition Tape Transfers and is an imageless Blu-ray. It is a 4 channel 24bit/192KHz recording utilizing DTS-HD Master Audio. It says all that all over the box. The Marantz pre-pro's screen correctly tells me that it is playing DTS-HDMSTR. The disk was made from a discrete Quadraphonic tape from 1974.

I play multi-channel music disks frequently, on SACD, DVD-A, etc., and, of course, Blu-ray movies, all without difficulty -- and Audyssey stays on. I've had disks from HDTT before, but always on DVD-A

Ideas?
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post #3629 of 6878 Old 09-02-2017, 11:35 AM
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@garygarrison , that's because the sampling rate is too high for the Audyssey processing to work with... I know it was like that in 2009, and I was disappointed to to see recently that the situation hasn't changed. (I'm looking at the Denon X4300H people! )

If you want the Audyssey (and who wouldn't?), you would have to convert in the player to 48 kHz PCM (I don't think 96 kHz works either)...
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post #3630 of 6878 Old 09-02-2017, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR View Post
@garygarrison , that's because the sampling rate is too high for the Audyssey processing to work with... I know it was like that in 2009, and I was disappointed to to see recently that the situation hasn't changed. (I'm looking at the Denon X4300H people! )

If you want the Audyssey (and who wouldn't?), you would have to convert in the player to 48 kHz PCM (I don't think 96 kHz works either)...
Page 293 and 295 of the X4300H's manual says otherwise unless I'm missing something. I'm not a high sample rate high bit guy myself. CD quality is about where I draw my diminishing returns line so this topic isn't much in my wheelhouse. I can read a manual though.
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