"Official" Audyssey thread Part II - Page 159 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4741 of 7269 Old 04-18-2018, 06:42 AM
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Hi guys,

if I want to run my subs hotter where do I set the trim?

Setup -> Speakers -> Manual Setup -> Levels or
Setup -> Audio -> Subwoofer Level Adjust?
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post #4742 of 7269 Old 04-18-2018, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh B. View Post
Hi guys,

if I want to run my subs hotter where do I set the trim?

Setup -> Speakers -> Manual Setup -> Levels or
Setup -> Audio -> Subwoofer Level Adjust?
Hi,

Some AVR's, such as my Marantz, allow you to make global changes in the trim level in either menu. A global change stays where you put it with any source or program content. Other AVR's only allow global changes in the Speaker Menu. You will have to experiment to determine which way your AVR works. Obviously, the Audio Menu is the more convenient place to make changes, because you can adjust the subwoofer volume on-the-fly, without missing any of your program, and hear the change in bass as it is occurring.

Whichever way you do it, however, it is a good idea to keep trim levels in the negative range (-5 is a good number) and to make substantial sub boosts with the sub gains themselves. You would just raise the sub gains symmetrically. The AVR trim levels, particularly in the Audio Menu, are convenient for adjusting subwoofer volumes upward and downward slightly, but you want most of your boost to come from the subwoofer amps themselves. To understand all of this better, you might want to read the second section of the Guide, linked in my signature. This is a direct link to that section:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...erences.html#C

Regards,
Mike
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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
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Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #4743 of 7269 Old 04-21-2018, 01:27 PM
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I have a Denon 6200 with with XT32-the last few times I've checked my Audyssey settings I've noticed that Dynamic Volume has been enabled in the medium setting, even though I've never made that selection, and even though I've subsequently turned off DV!
Just wondering if anyone else has encountered this problem, and if so, how have you resolved it.

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post #4744 of 7269 Old 04-22-2018, 01:58 AM
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I have never read a good explanation how DynamicEQ reference level offset affects what I hear.

Let's say I'm listening to some content without DynamicEQ. What happens (what frequencies are boosted/attenuated), when:

1. I turn DynamicEQ on with offset 0dB?
2. I change the offset from 0db to 5db?
3. From 5dB to 10dB?
4. From 10dB to 15dB?

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post #4745 of 7269 Old 04-22-2018, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Paapaa View Post
I have never read a good explanation how DynamicEQ reference level offset affects what I hear.

Let's say I'm listening to some content without DynamicEQ. What happens (what frequencies are boosted/attenuated), when:

1. I turn DynamicEQ on with offset 0dB?
2. I change the offset from 0db to 5db?
3. From 5dB to 10dB?
4. From 10dB to 15dB?
Hi,

I'm going to provide a direct link to a fairly thorough explanation of what DEQ does. Reference Level Offset is explained at the bottom of that section. If I were you, I would read the explanation of what DEQ does first. Then, the way that the RLO settings affect the operation of DEQ will make more sense. There are examples of different RLO settings that should clearly answer your question.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...erences.html#F

Regards,
Mike
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post #4746 of 7269 Old 04-22-2018, 07:39 PM
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Thanks so much for all this info. I dismissed/disabled the older Audyssey versions, but the XT32 is really adds a lot of value to my system. But SO many options, so very helpful for step-by-steps guides and explanations! Thank you
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post #4747 of 7269 Old 04-23-2018, 01:10 PM
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Hi,

I'm going to provide a direct link to a fairly thorough explanation of what DEQ does.
Thank you for the link, that was a very clear explanation!
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post #4748 of 7269 Old 04-23-2018, 02:00 PM
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While I understand what Dyn EQ does and have seen quite a few measurements done, I m still not entirely happy with it. My gripe is mainly with the Surround boost that completely ruins the balance for me. At -25db my Surrounds and Rear Hight Speakers are 5db boosted which is considerable!
I've compensated for that, but of coursE as soon as I touch the Volume controls, everything is out of alignment again.

More problematic for me is Dynamic Volume. If I set it to "Light" then the general Volume gets boosted by about 15db, meaning my listening level rises from -25db to -40db and even then some sources are still louder. Voices get a gigantic boost in many cases and the level of general compression "feels" quite large. It is very helpful to have voices boosted, but it seems a little much, even on the weakest setting.
Has anyone ever measured how much DV actually affects the dynamic Range on current AVRs with XT32…?
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post #4749 of 7269 Old 04-23-2018, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CommanderROR View Post
While I understand what Dyn EQ does and have seen quite a few measurements done, I m still not entirely happy with it. My gripe is mainly with the Surround boost that completely ruins the balance for me. At -25db my Surrounds and Rear Hight Speakers are 5db boosted which is considerable!
I've compensated for that, but of coursE as soon as I touch the Volume controls, everything is out of alignment again.

More problematic for me is Dynamic Volume. If I set it to "Light" then the general Volume gets boosted by about 15db, meaning my listening level rises from -25db to -40db and even then some sources are still louder. Voices get a gigantic boost in many cases and the level of general compression "feels" quite large. It is very helpful to have voices boosted, but it seems a little much, even on the weakest setting.
Has anyone ever measured how much DV actually affects the dynamic Range on current AVRs with XT32…?
Hi,

Although the general theory behind DEQ is sound (pun intended), the application has always been somewhat controversial. Some people like using it and some don't. If you are making moderate master volume adjustments, and still prefer having DEQ on, try using an RLO setting of -5. That might help.

Of course, you can also turn DEQ off and try using your own subwoofer boosts instead. Some people like having the tone controls available to them when they do that, although they only affect the front speakers. With DEQ off, you might find yourself having to add and subtract a little bass boost when you adjust your MV, but you won't have to worry about the surround channels changing. (Some people seem to be more sensitive to the DEQ surround boosts than others are.)

Dynamic Volume is primarily used by people who need to manage the listening level, due to sleeping children or the like, while still being able to hear dialogue. Relatively few listeners have ever mentioned preferring DV on the Audyssey thread, and knowing that it intentionally compresses the content, in order to normalize the volume, keeps most of the experienced HT users away from it except for reasons of necessity. So, I don't know whether anyone has ever tried to measure the compression. Offhand, I can't recall any such measurements.

Regards,
Mike
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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #4750 of 7269 Old 04-24-2018, 01:15 AM
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Thanks Mike!
I am pretty comfortable with Dyn EQ 0db Offset. It's really just the Surround boost that annoys me. Something like that should really be left up to the user preference...

Dyn Volume is a strange one. In some cases it's fine, in others it is far too much even on "light". If it didn't change the general Sound level so much, I would just turn it on as needed, but since I always have to adjust the general Sound level considerably before and after it's a bit of a hassle...
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post #4751 of 7269 Old 04-24-2018, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CommanderROR View Post
Thanks Mike!
I am pretty comfortable with Dyn EQ 0db Offset. It's really just the Surround boost that annoys me. Something like that should really be left up to the user preference...

Dyn Volume is a strange one. In some cases it's fine, in others it is far too much even on "light". If it didn't change the general Sound level so much, I would just turn it on as needed, but since I always have to adjust the general Sound level considerably before and after it's a bit of a hassle...
I agree with you on the surrounds. It seems to work well until about -25dB or so and then the surrounds seem to be too boosted for my preference. I typically listen from -10 to -30 so I find the feature a bonus for most of my listening. Perhaps it's worse with a 7- vs. 5-channel set up due to the rear channels, but I haven't experimented with that. Also, some surround mixes, particularly for TV shows, seem to have the surround channels mixed a bit high, which is annoying even without Dyn EQ.

If you want to check out how it affects the volume levels, play some pink noise (not the built-in test tones) and use a SPL to check out the difference in levels as you lower the volume from Reference with Dyn EQ engaged. The sub and surrounds go up considerably compared to the LCR channels.
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post #4752 of 7269 Old 04-25-2018, 03:50 PM
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There's no accuEQ thread so I'll ask this here since I *think* the same would apply to Audessy... I've read that it's ok to extend the cable up to 25ft. What I cannot seem to find is if I should use a mono cable or a stereo cable? I assume mono as the mic appears to be mono. Anyone?

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post #4753 of 7269 Old 04-25-2018, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by torkibe View Post
There's no accuEQ thread so I'll ask this here since I *think* the same would apply to Audessy... I've read that it's ok to extend the cable up to 25ft. What I cannot seem to find is if I should use a mono cable or a stereo cable? I assume mono as the mic appears to be mono. Anyone?
You can tell by the plug.
If this is your mike, it's a mono plug, so get a mono cable.
https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/AUD...nkyo-or-Integr
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post #4754 of 7269 Old 04-29-2018, 10:59 AM
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Is it safe to assume that all Audyssey mikes of the same model number are essentially "the same", within their calibration tolerance?

I would like to use the same Audyssey mike I always use, since it's already mounted on the mike stand with a gizmo that makes sure it's level and has a plumb bob for targeting the same locations I always use i.e. a kluge but solid mike stand mount... (new is X4400, older gear with same mike is X4000 and 7702).
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post #4755 of 7269 Old 04-29-2018, 11:50 AM
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Is it safe to assume that all Audyssey mikes of the same model number are essentially "the same", within their calibration tolerance?

I would like to use the same Audyssey mike I always use, since it's already mounted on the mike stand with a gizmo that makes sure it's level and has a plumb bob for targeting the same locations I always use i.e. a kluge but solid mike stand mount... (new is X4400, older gear with same mike is X4000 and 7702).
Hi,

I like the fact that you included the phrase "within their calibration tolerance". I wouldn't expect widely varying results from different mics, but I have definitely seen some differences reported on various threads. Yes, your old microphone will work perfectly well. Frankly, I think that it's a good idea to use a mic that you know gives you good results to start with. That should make any post-calibration tweaking you do a little easier.

Regards,
Mike
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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #4756 of 7269 Old 04-29-2018, 01:08 PM
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...Frankly, I think that it's a good idea to use a mic that you know gives you good results to start with. That should make any post-calibration tweaking you do a little easier. ...
This is what I was thinking. I have a lot of historical Audyssey results from different gear, most of which is XT32. Since I'm re-doing my overhead Atmos speakers/amps soon, plus probably lowering some of the surrounds, I decided to only do the minimum Audyssey mike positions, using the "same old mike". Got identical results (within ±0.5dB) to the (8 position) results last done ~3 years ago with the 7702, and 4 years ago with the X4000. Didn't even "verify" with REW, since it's only temporary for a few weeks at most, but I really missed the Audyssey when I was operating for a couple days without it on the new AVR.

The Audyssey procedure seems a little different than what I last recall i.e. you can't do just one position then calculate, what I used to like to do at the beginning of any Audyssey session to make sure something "crazy" isn't going on. Also the sub matching seems a little more integrated than what I recall, but I know from experience that I need to skip it here otherwise the sub levels it wants are higher than IMO optimal, and it lets you skip through it.
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post #4757 of 7269 Old 04-30-2018, 12:24 AM
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Audyssey on my 6200 gives me only strange "echo" in voices from left and right speaker.
While ATMOS soundtrack offers great clear voices from all spreakers, Audyssey adds echo left and right.
When people are speaking, walking from left to right for example, they sound like they are standing in an empty room, even if the scene is outside.
Center voices are OK. The rest is plain unnatural.

Do you have the similar experience? Any wrong setting? I couldnt find it.
It irritates me so much I dont use Audyssey anymore.
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post #4758 of 7269 Old 04-30-2018, 06:54 AM
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How consistent is audyssey multieq xt?

I had my denon 3808 calibrated, using all eight calibration points, to a def tech procinema 600 5.1 and really enjoyed the results. However, I got a little curious and decided to plug in some polk rt35i's on the front L/R to see if I was missing anything. Again, using all eight cal. points, I didn't really get anything new or better out of the polks so I went back to the procinema 600's and re-calibrated again. Fast forward a bit, I lucked into a polk cs400i center channel to go with the rti's. I decided to try them out for the front soundstage, and in an effort to conserve time, I calibrated the system using only 4 listening points; 3pts across the couch in the MLP and then one more about 3ft in front of the MLP. The results from this calibration were absolutely astounding throughout the whole system, the best it has ever sounded by far. I'm assuming using less calibration points, in MY particular circumstances, has made a world of difference for the better with the polks. Now I'm wondering if it would do the same thing for my Def Tech's. Long story short, I want to try my def tech's out with the new calibration strategy, but I also don't want to lose what I've got. Do you think, in the event the def tech's don't rise to the challenge, that audyssey will reproduce the same results a second time if I need to put the polks back? Thanks
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post #4759 of 7269 Old 04-30-2018, 09:17 AM
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I had my denon 3808 calibrated, using all eight calibration points, to a def tech procinema 600 5.1 and really enjoyed the results. However, I got a little curious and decided to plug in some polk rt35i's on the front L/R to see if I was missing anything. Again, using all eight cal. points, I didn't really get anything new or better out of the polks so I went back to the procinema 600's and re-calibrated again. Fast forward a bit, I lucked into a polk cs400i center channel to go with the rti's. I decided to try them out for the front soundstage, and in an effort to conserve time, I calibrated the system using only 4 listening points; 3pts across the couch in the MLP and then one more about 3ft in front of the MLP. The results from this calibration were absolutely astounding throughout the whole system, the best it has ever sounded by far. I'm assuming using less calibration points, in MY particular circumstances, has made a world of difference for the better with the polks. Now I'm wondering if it would do the same thing for my Def Tech's. Long story short, I want to try my def tech's out with the new calibration strategy, but I also don't want to lose what I've got. Do you think, in the event the def tech's don't rise to the challenge, that audyssey will reproduce the same results a second time if I need to put the polks back? Thanks
Hi,

That's a good question. I believe that if you can recreate the same microphone positions, and keep everything else the same (such as using a blanket over the back of your listening chair during calibration) the EQ results will be very similar. But, I think that it can take some effort, and perhaps some practice, to use exactly the same procedure as the one where you previously got the best results.

When I was first seriously experimenting with Audyssey, I kept a log of the different mic positions I tried, along with the crossovers and trim settings that resulted, and with some of my subjective impressions. I gradually homed in on a mic pattern that I liked, and I have used it ever since. I may not get the microphone back in exactly the same placements for all 8 positions, but I get fairly close, and my results stay pretty consistent. Once you find a mic placement you really like, I encourage you to make a chart that shows where those mic positions were, +/- an inch or two.

Incidentally, there is nothing wrong with just using 4 mic positions if that gives you the results that you like best. But, it probably has more to do with the location of the mic positions you tried than it does with the number of them. In theory, at least, the greater number of mic positions should enable Audyssey to do a better job, as you give it more information about the listening area you want to EQ. If you would like to read a little more about calibration technique, including the use of a blanket as mentioned above, this is a direct link to a section on the subject:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...erences.html#B

Regards,
Mike
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post #4760 of 7269 Old 04-30-2018, 11:29 AM
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^ I do much the same thing. Let's face it: usually the person posting in this forum/thread is the fussiest person (audio-wise) in the room, unless it's a member gathering... So: there's only one MLP, and that's where I/you sit.

From my experiments years ago with XT32, and I'm still in the same room, I found that a very small pattern around the MLP gave the best results. Not too small, because that was awful e.g. I'd say a circle the diameter of your head is "too small" for measurement positions, I tried that too. Measuring somewhere within a 12-18" diameter "circle" around the MLP worked extremely well for my ("fully" treated) smallish 12x18x9' room. I also checked each set of Audyssey measurement locations with REW to see how the results varied. Once I found the (obviously IMO) 8 best locations, and listened to the results for quite a while, I marked them really well.

Having pretty much exactly repeatable mike positions is really necessary when doing quasi-scientific experiments with Audyssey and REW. [That's why I had to make a "jig" for the mike holder on my mike stand (same as the one in the Pro kit), mentioned a bit above.] You need to find out what works for you and your room. The people who say "Audyssey doesn't work" probably tried it once or twice, but long-time users know it really takes a lot more work than that, and the gear manuals really make it sound kind of trivial and "once is enough". That said, most people I've talked to who are moderately fussy (at least) find that mike positions within an ~2' circle around the center of the listening area, rather than all over it, gives the best results.
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post #4761 of 7269 Old 04-30-2018, 12:00 PM
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Here is something more for those who like to measure to find the best mic spots prior to running MultEQ. This was a discussion with Chris K. on FB a while ago where we exchanged views on a "brave idea".
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post #4762 of 7269 Old 04-30-2018, 01:17 PM
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I hate this thread...always makes me want to re-run Audyssey to see if I'm missing anything...

Couple of questions - I just placed some IsolateIt insulators under my center channel as I was noticing what appeared to be resonance with the TV stand the center channel was sitting on - deeper voices really boomed and distorted. The little IsolateIt pads really helped and dialogue seems clearer to me - especially deep voices. Long story short, should I re-calibrate with Audyssey? I'm thinking it couldn't hurt...

Second question - should the mic always be level and is there a specific "front orientation" for the mic? Or as long as it is pointed straight up and perpendicular to the ground, you are good?
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post #4763 of 7269 Old 04-30-2018, 02:18 PM
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I hate this thread...always makes me want to re-run Audyssey to see if I'm missing anything...

Couple of questions - I just placed some IsolateIt insulators under my center channel as I was noticing what appeared to be resonance with the TV stand the center channel was sitting on - deeper voices really boomed and distorted. The little IsolateIt pads really helped and dialogue seems clearer to me - especially deep voices. Long story short, should I re-calibrate with Audyssey? I'm thinking it couldn't hurt...

Second question - should the mic always be level and is there a specific "front orientation" for the mic? Or as long as it is pointed straight up and perpendicular to the ground, you are good?
^ First question: funny, I did something similar last night. Very new AVR (X4400) just installed in rack, it hums a bit, but the rack shelf/spacing/nearby wall/etc. seemed to amplify it somehow. Previous devices (7702, X4000) were on Vibrapods, probably for the same reason, which I forgot about, thought it was just me being anal. So I put the 'pods under the X4400's feet, and much reduced noise, sounds "normal" to me. I did not re-do Audyssey, since I had just done it, and my settings are temporary anyway. If you can notice a sonic diff, then I'd save the current settings JIC you want to re-visit them, then re-do it. [In my case, it was a more "mechanical" noise that was so relatively low in amplitude I'd be a bit surprised if the Audyssey mike picked it up, I had to stick my head practically into the rack to hear it..]

Second question: pointed straight up, as shown by a circular bubble level, so by default it's parallel to the floor too (hopefully), is good.
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post #4764 of 7269 Old 04-30-2018, 02:43 PM
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I had my denon 3808 calibrated, using all eight calibration points, to a def tech procinema 600 5.1 and really enjoyed the results. However, I got a little curious and decided to plug in some polk rt35i's on the front L/R to see if I was missing anything. Again, using all eight cal. points, I didn't really get anything new or better out of the polks so I went back to the procinema 600's and re-calibrated again. Fast forward a bit, I lucked into a polk cs400i center channel to go with the rti's. I decided to try them out for the front soundstage, and in an effort to conserve time, I calibrated the system using only 4 listening points; 3pts across the couch in the MLP and then one more about 3ft in front of the MLP. The results from this calibration were absolutely astounding throughout the whole system, the best it has ever sounded by far. I'm assuming using less calibration points, in MY particular circumstances, has made a world of difference for the better with the polks. Now I'm wondering if it would do the same thing for my Def Tech's. Long story short, I want to try my def tech's out with the new calibration strategy, but I also don't want to lose what I've got. Do you think, in the event the def tech's don't rise to the challenge, that audyssey will reproduce the same results a second time if I need to put the polks back? Thanks
Does your AVR not have the ability to save a calibration (via the web interface or app)?
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post #4765 of 7269 Old 04-30-2018, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by cfraser View Post
^ First question: funny, I did something similar last night. Very new AVR (X4400) just installed in rack, it hums a bit, but the rack shelf/spacing/nearby wall/etc. seemed to amplify it somehow. Previous devices (7702, X4000) were on Vibrapods, probably for the same reason, which I forgot about, thought it was just me being anal. So I put the 'pods under the X4400's feet, and much reduced noise, sounds "normal" to me. I did not re-do Audyssey, since I had just done it, and my settings are temporary anyway. If you can notice a sonic diff, then I'd save the current settings JIC you want to re-visit them, then re-do it. [In my case, it was a more "mechanical" noise that was so relatively low in amplitude I'd be a bit surprised if the Audyssey mike picked it up, I had to stick my head practically into the rack to hear it..]

Second question: pointed straight up, as shown by a circular bubble level, so by default it's parallel to the floor too (hopefully), is good.
Thanks - but does your mic have a bubble level? Mine certainly does not. I've been manually making sure that the mic is mostly level (with a full size level)

Josh
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post #4766 of 7269 Old 04-30-2018, 05:37 PM
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^ No bubble level standard, I made a special mike holder for my mike stand with that and some other "features" built in, for when I was doing a lot of Audyssey experiments several years ago. You can get very small bubble levels that you could gently set on top of the Audyssey mike.

It's much easier to use a half-decent tripod though, they usually have (multiple) levels built in. I tend to use the tripod for the REW mike, mike stand for the Audyssey one, because I'm measuring back and forth with both. My tripod has a "swing head", so can get into most seating positions OK.

Edit: when I said "bubble level" and "level" above, I meant a circular one. You can get them from ~1/2" to a couple inches in diameter, quite cheap. I find the larger ones much easier to use, thus the mike jig I made to hold a large one. I don't even know how important aiming "perfectly" straight up is, eyeballing it may be good enough, but I was trying to conduct my experiments with "exactly" repeatable mike positions and orientation, so that results would be more fairly comparable.

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I guess this is a given, but Audyssey is supposed to improve imaging and soundstage, right? I turned it off last night for some music (was just listening in pure direct mode), which sounded pretty good, but it seemed that the vocals were coming from the right side. This probably makes sense since that speaker is in a corner, and the left speaker is near an archway that opens into another room. Anyway, engaging Audy seemed to put the vocals dead center. For a second, I thought my center speaker was on, but it wasn't.

**edit**

Just to add to this, engaging Audy definitely changes the soundstage. It centers the vocals more, but also seems to narrow the soundstage, like most of the sound is coming from the center. What really ruins it for me is the lack of bass. I've been listening to 2 ch with DEQ off since it's usually just too over the top, so that could be why. Without DEQ, the bass is just gone from my speakers. I've tried boosting the sub a bit, and even used tone controls to raise the bass to the speakers. It sounds better, but then I'll flip to 'direct' mode on my Marantz, and the bass is back. Also, the bass seems tighter and more natural this way. I like Audy for movies, though.
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post #4768 of 7269 Old 05-03-2018, 06:19 PM
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When I "save the configuration" through the ip address interface, does the saved file contain all of the audyssey calibration info? And does anyone know if the saved file title makes a difference? The reason I ask is that the file saved to my chromebook without the "C:\Denon\" prefix...it simply saved itself as config.dat. Thanks

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post #4769 of 7269 Old 05-03-2018, 09:27 PM
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I guess this is a given, but Audyssey is supposed to improve imaging and soundstage, right? I turned it off last night for some music (was just listening in pure direct mode), which sounded pretty good, but it seemed that the vocals were coming from the right side. This probably makes sense since that speaker is in a corner, and the left speaker is near an archway that opens into another room. Anyway, engaging Audy seemed to put the vocals dead center. For a second, I thought my center speaker was on, but it wasn't.

**edit**

Just to add to this, engaging Audy definitely changes the soundstage. It centers the vocals more, but also seems to narrow the soundstage, like most of the sound is coming from the center. What really ruins it for me is the lack of bass. I've been listening to 2 ch with DEQ off since it's usually just too over the top, so that could be why. Without DEQ, the bass is just gone from my speakers. I've tried boosting the sub a bit, and even used tone controls to raise the bass to the speakers. It sounds better, but then I'll flip to 'direct' mode on my Marantz, and the bass is back. Also, the bass seems tighter and more natural this way. I like Audy for movies, though.
Hi,

Everyone hears things a little bit differently, so in the end we just have to please ourselves with what we like. With respect to Audyssey focusing the soundstage a little too much into the center, I might experiment with my toe-in (or out) a little more. That's a shot in the dark, but it might be worth a try. There is a Guide, linked in my signature, that makes some suggestions in the very first section about speaker setup and Audyssey calibration techniques. There might be something in there that can help.

I am a little bit surprised that the bass sounds tighter and more natural with Audyssey off. That's an unusual experience. There may very well be more bass when you turn Audyssey off, if Audyssey has pulled down a peak in the mid-bass for instance, especially somewhere around 50 to 70Hz. We seem to be especially sensitive to changes in that frequency range. And, you might very well like the sound of that better. But, it is very unlikely that the bass will be tighter or more natural with Audyssey off. Unless you have multiple subs, and/or an exceptional room, bass frequencies will normally have peaks and dips throughout the frequency response. Those are caused by room modes, and as noted above, they are pretty inescapable.

What Audyssey does is to smooth-out some of those random peaks and dips so that the speakers and the subwoofer(s) can play in a more linear way, which is what they were designed to do before the room got hold of them. Audyssey is usually consistently helpful below about 500Hz. And, when the random bass peaks and dips are removed, we should be able to hear the music the way it was actually recorded.

I am not saying that you shouldn't like the sound you like. If you prefer Audyssey off for music, then that's the way to listen to it. But, I might give it a little time to see if you get used to hearing what should be more accurate bass. If you are, in fact, hearing a peak at a particular frequency, you may find in time that the more natural and tighter sound actually occurs when the peak is removed.

This is just speculation on my part, but I thought I should respond in case you were seeking suggestions, and not just posting some impressions.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #4770 of 7269 Old 05-04-2018, 06:09 AM
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Hi,

Everyone hears things a little bit differently, so in the end we just have to please ourselves with what we like. With respect to Audyssey focusing the soundstage a little too much into the center, I might experiment with my toe-in (or out) a little more. That's a shot in the dark, but it might be worth a try. There is a Guide, linked in my signature, that makes some suggestions in the very first section about speaker setup and Audyssey calibration techniques. There might be something in there that can help.

I am a little bit surprised that the bass sounds tighter and more natural with Audyssey off. That's an unusual experience. There may very well be more bass when you turn Audyssey off, if Audyssey has pulled down a peak in the mid-bass for instance, especially somewhere around 50 to 70Hz. We seem to be especially sensitive to changes in that frequency range. And, you might very well like the sound of that better. But, it is very unlikely that the bass will be tighter or more natural with Audyssey off. Unless you have multiple subs, and/or an exceptional room, bass frequencies will normally have peaks and dips throughout the frequency response. Those are caused by room modes, and as noted above, they are pretty inescapable.

What Audyssey does is to smooth-out some of those random peaks and dips so that the speakers and the subwoofer(s) can play in a more linear way, which is what they were designed to do before the room got hold of them. Audyssey is usually consistently helpful below about 500Hz. And, when the random bass peaks and dips are removed, we should be able to hear the music the way it was actually recorded.

I am not saying that you shouldn't like the sound you like. If you prefer Audyssey off for music, then that's the way to listen to it. But, I might give it a little time to see if you get used to hearing what should be more accurate bass. If you are, in fact, hearing a peak at a particular frequency, you may find in time that the more natural and tighter sound actually occurs when the peak is removed.

This is just speculation on my part, but I thought I should respond in case you were seeking suggestions, and not just posting some impressions.

Regards,
Mike
Hey Mike, thanks for the info! With Audy off, there is more bass for sure, at least at certain freqs. I can be playing a song, and it doesn't sound bad with it on, but if I flip to direct mode, there's an increase, and the music just sounds more full. According to some reviews, my speakers (Wharfdale Diamond towers) have a bass hump around the 100 Hz region. If Audy is flattening this out, that could be the difference I'm hearing.

I'll definitely listen more and see how it goes. It's nice to be able to switch back and forth depending on my mood
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