"Official" Audyssey thread Part II - Page 22 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #631 of 7281 Old 06-16-2016, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
No, that's not normal, or an intended design. Try doing a soft reset first by unplugging the Denon for 10 minutes or more, and plugging it back in.

If that doesn't work, then a processor reset is the next option. You'll loose all of your settings including your Audyssey calibration, so be prepared to have to resetup the unit.

You can use the web control feature to save your current config first, and then reload it after the reset, but I have found that for some reason various settings on random inputs weren't copied and saved properly, which made me wonder if it copied the Audyssey EQ info properly as well.
@James Meckley:

Before doing a microprocessor reset here's one more tip, although I'm not familiar with the Denon x-4000. Nonetheless, on my older Denon features like Dyn Vol are not global settings but source dependent. In my case whatever I set for a certain source and press and hold the corresponding source button for 2+ seconds the Denon will save each setting. Give it a try and report back please.
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post #632 of 7281 Old 06-16-2016, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
@James Meckley:

Before doing a microprocessor reset here's one more tip, although I'm not familiar with the Denon x-4000. Nonetheless, on my older Denon features like Dyn Vol are not global settings but source dependent. In my case whatever I set for a certain source and press and hold the corresponding source button for 2+ seconds the Denon will save each setting. Give it a try and report back please.
On his x4000 he doesn't need to hold for 2+ seconds, he simply selects the settings and it's saved. All of Audyssey's settings are source dependent and he does need to make sure that he sets up each source the way he wants it, but once done, no settings (Audyssey or other) should change on their own.

Hopefully the soft reset will fix it, but I personally doubt it will....
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post #633 of 7281 Old 06-16-2016, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Has this been discussed?
"Audyssey Pro being phased out on #Denon AVRs in 2016 to be replaced by the Audyssey app for iOS and Android in October at a cost of €19.99."


Via Mikes brain/thumb interface, LLAP
Hi, here's a Q&A with Chris K. on Facebook on the subject:

Chris: "The new app will only work with this year’s (and forward) models. It provides the ability to customize target curves, save them, and share them with others. It’s the year of Preference!"

Q: "So then XT32 would get customizable target-curves? Don't see the advantage of sharing though, no 2 rooms are the same."

Chris: "Yes customizable target curves. The target curves represent the desired sound and are not related to the room. They are personal preference. So two people with different rooms could calibrate their rooms to sound "the same" despite the original acoustic differences."

Hmm.
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post #634 of 7281 Old 06-16-2016, 12:00 PM
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I can see where Dynamic Volume might be useful for movie/TV viewing where you need to control the volume and dynamic range so as not to disturb neighbors, sleeping babies, etc. But I have never had any reason to experiment with it personally. Can anyone who has used it for music explain whether it simply condenses sounds to a more uniform volume level, or whether it actually seems to affect high and low frequencies, as well?

The reason I ask is that I have experimented with a variety of music sources, and where compression occurs there, it is the bandwidth of the signal that is affected. So, compressed sources can be played at whatever volume, but even a piece of jazz music with limited volume change, can sound squashed due to compression. Extremely compressed sources have very audible distortion, but less compression can still result in a less expansive sound. I'm not talking here about the difference between FLAC files and 320 KBPS sources, but rather between much more compressed music versus compression that gets out of the audible range. Lets say 128 KBPS, or 160 KBPS, or even 192 KBPS versus 320 KBPS. To my ears there is a quite audible difference, for instance between 192 and 320. 192 doesn't actually sound bad for jazz music, until you do a direct comparison with 320. Then 320 sounds so much better. A full symphony orchestra would exacerbate the difference.

I may try Dynamic Volume sometime just to experiment, but I am wondering if anyone else has tried it and heard range as well as volume compression?

Thanks,
Mike

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post #635 of 7281 Old 06-16-2016, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
No idea why, unless the Denon monitors the dynamic range and determines that you really should use "medium." Does the reset happen with particularly dynamic material? Particularly bland material?

Just out of curiosity, do you use Dynamic Volume to avoid disturbing someone in the building? The neighbors? I can understand that, but it really changes the music into something different than the composer/artists intended, IMO.
I have mine set to light as I have three year old twins that are sleeping when I'm watching TV/movies in the evening. Don't want to wake them up, never a good scene.

I never listen to music on this system, so not worried about it changing music.

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post #636 of 7281 Old 06-16-2016, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Hi, here's a Q&A with Chris K. on Facebook on the subject:

Chris: "The new app will only work with this year’s (and forward) models. It provides the ability to customize target curves, save them, and share them with others. It’s the year of Preference!"

Q: "So then XT32 would get customizable target-curves? Don't see the advantage of sharing though, no 2 rooms are the same."

Chris: "Yes customizable target curves. The target curves represent the desired sound and are not related to the room. They are personal preference. So two people with different rooms could calibrate their rooms to sound "the same" despite the original acoustic differences."

Hmm.
Thx for posting , I asked in the facebook group also....so Chris hinted many month back about a 2016 Q3/Q4 big announcement, take it this is that.

So the mic on 2016 Denon units is the "better" Pro mic?

copy/past from facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/audysseytechtalk/permalink/1350815641599385/?comment_id=1350994248248191&notif_t=group_comment _reply&notif_id=1466083518888281
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Hey there! Could anyone explain what is up with that: https://twitter.com/AVForums/status/740899234564673540
I mean an app instead of an Installer Kit?

AVForums.com on Twitter
“Audyssey Pro being phased out on #Denon AVRs in 2016 to be replaced by the Audyssey app for iOS and Android in October at a cost of €19.99.”
TWITTER.COM|BY AVFORUMS.COM
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1Michael A Rosinski
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Michael A Rosinski
Michael A Rosinski Yes I read this also.... Chris Kyriakakis
Like · Reply · 8 hrs
Chris Kyriakakis
Chris Kyriakakis Indeed
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 7 hrs
Michael A Rosinski
Michael A Rosinski Any idea if my 2012 bought Denon 4520CI can use this app? It's PRO ready and I bought the certificate.
Like · Reply · 6 hrs
Jan Van Ham
Jan Van Ham Hmm, don't really understand ? Some more context on this ?
Like · Reply · 5 hrs
Dennis Feiler
Dennis Feiler What I understand from this tweet is: The new generation (and only the new) will have XT32 but without Pro. Instead there will be an audyssey app.
Like · Reply · 5 hrs
Chris Kyriakakis
Chris Kyriakakis The new app will only work with this year’s (and forward) models. It provides the ability to customize target curves, save them, and share them with others. It’s the year of Preference!
Like · Reply · 4 hrs
Dallas Dingle
Dallas Dingle Would seem to lose the advantage of profiled microphone included in pro kit?
Like · Reply · 1 · 4 hrs
Jan Van Ham
Jan Van Ham So then XT32 would get customizable target-curves ? Don't see the advantage of sharing though, no 2 rooms are the same.
Like · Reply · 4 hrs
Chris Kyriakakis
Chris Kyriakakis Yes customizable target curves. The target curves represent the desired sound and are not related to the room. They are personal preference. So two people with different rooms could calibrate their rooms to sound "the same" despite the original acoustic differences.
Like · Reply · 4 hrs
Darryl Chereshkoff
Darryl Chereshkoff Chris does "customizable target curves" mean that I will be able to limit the EQ to either a pre-set or infinite setting? In other words will I be able to tell Audyssey not to EQ anything above 200-500hz?
Like · Reply · 3 hrs
Chris Kyriakakis
Chris Kyriakakis Yes, after 12 years I finally gave in...
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Michael A Rosinski

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Alan Peil
Alan Peil Wow, exciting stuff! I'm assuming this is going to work very similar to Dirac's "target curves"??
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Dennis Feiler
Dennis Feiler But isn't the use of a smartphone not a huge limitation compared to the Pro-Kit?
Like · Reply · 1 · 3 hrs
Jan Van Ham
Jan Van Ham Indeed, making measurements with such built-in MIC across a large variety of Android/Apple devices would be really not-done. So I think measurement would still be "classic" on the AVR-side. So no more usage of the "Pro" kit then for Denon?
Like · Reply · 3 hrs
Chris Kyriakakis
Chris Kyriakakis Measurements will still be done with the calibrated Audyssey mic connected to the AVR. The app is for customization and fine tuning to preference.
Like · Reply · 1 · 8 mins · Edited
Dennis Feiler
Dennis Feiler Thank you for clearing that up.
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post #637 of 7281 Old 06-16-2016, 04:44 PM
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^ That Darryl Chereshkoff dude seems really, really cool

I am so happy to hear that I can limit Audyssey's EQ frequency....... I will have a new AVR asap because of this.
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post #638 of 7281 Old 06-16-2016, 04:46 PM
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^ That Darryl Chereshkoff dude seems really, really cool

I am so happy to hear that I can limit Audyssey's EQ frequency....... I will have a new AVR asap because of this.
Cool, indeed!
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post #639 of 7281 Old 06-16-2016, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
^ That Darryl Chereshkoff dude seems really, really cool

I am so happy to hear that I can limit Audyssey's EQ frequency....... I will have a new AVR asap because of this.

I don't know, it's typically pretty hard to find cool Darryl's. No more Bypass L/R.

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post #640 of 7281 Old 06-16-2016, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I don't know, it's typically pretty hard to find cool Darryl's. No more Bypass L/R.
HA! <jealous!> Yup, no more L/R BP....... Just smooth bass response, without a 2k dip and no harshness. Oh yea, sign me up.

I'm glad I kept my x3200's original box and packaging as it will make it easier to sell come October.
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post #641 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 08:58 AM
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hey there,
i have a denon x2200 avr that comes with multieq xt (8 measuring positions). 6 of the suggested position in audyssey room correction process are "legit"- away from walls and within the cone that the speakers form. but the last two would force me to put the mic pretty much against the wall (my sofa is set against the wall). so the question is what would be better for the sake of proper room correction? to complete the process using the data from 6 positions or include those 2 non-ideal positions?

thanks.
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post #642 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 10:57 AM
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hey there,
i have a denon x2200 avr that comes with multieq xt (8 measuring positions). 6 of the suggested position in audyssey room correction process are "legit"- away from walls and within the cone that the speakers form. but the last two would force me to put the mic pretty much against the wall (my sofa is set against the wall). so the question is what would be better for the sake of proper room correction? to complete the process using the data from 6 positions or include those 2 non-ideal positions?

thanks.
I'd suggest a third solution: put the last two mic positions right in front of the MLP, #7 to the left and #8 to the right about 2 feet forward. The more data of your room you feed MultEQ the better the acoustical bubble around the seating area will be.

Hope this helps.
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post #643 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 11:03 AM
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I posted on another thread but maybe someone can reply here.
The dark green is audyssey and light is mcacc pro. This is for the dual subs only. The audyssey graph is the better one correct?


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post #644 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 12:42 PM
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I'd suggest a third solution: put the last two mic positions right in front of the MLP, #7 to the left and #8 to the right about 2 feet forward. The more data of your room you feed MultEQ the better the acoustical bubble around the seating area will be.

Hope this helps.
hmm does that mean those suggested measuring positions by denon can be ignored as audyssey can calculate the distances fairly accurately anyway after the first measurement has been made?

the denon suggestion is this:

4_5_6
|2_1_3| - this is the sofa.
------
7___8

i guess you're suggesting to measure 7 and 8 at 4 and 6 again?
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post #645 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by evgenetic View Post
hmm does that mean those suggested measuring positions by denon can be ignored as audyssey can calculate the distances fairly accurately anyway after the first measurement has been made?

the denon suggestion is this:

4_5_6
|2_1_3| - this is the sofa.
------
7___8

i guess you're suggesting to measure 7 and 8 at 4 and 6 again?
Actually, distances are measued by Audyssey only from #1 (aka MLP). The rest of the mic positions (#2 to #8) are meant to feed Audyssey as much info at and around the seating positions as possible enabling the algorithm to set up the best filters per speaker as it can.

I have the same configutation like you have, i.e. sofa is at the rear wall, so in this (our) case the best is to place the mic for the remaing two shots somewhere halfway between 4-5 and 5-6, but closer to the sofa than 4 and 6 was. Give it a try please.
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post #646 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 02:14 PM
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aha, i see. sure i'll rerun it tomorrow. i'll take photos of the before (current) and after results of the eq shape, it's interesting what kind of difference it would make.
thanks
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post #647 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 02:17 PM
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aha, i see. sure i'll rerun it tomorrow. i'll take photos of the before (current) and after results of the eq shape, it's interesting what kind of difference it would make.
thanks
Lookin' forward, so please definitely share your experience. Good luck to ya!

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post #648 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
I posted on another thread but maybe someone can reply here.
The dark green is audyssey and light is mcacc pro. This is for the dual subs only. The audyssey graph is the better one correct?


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Hi,

I think the Audyssey graph is a little better, particularly above about 65Hz, and below about 25Hz, but neither one strikes me as extremely good. Have you experimented with moving your subs around to find the best overall placement? Is this about as smooth as you can get?

Regards,
Mike
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post #649 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I think the Audyssey graph is a little better, particularly above about 65Hz, and below about 25Hz, but neither one strikes me as extremely good. Have you experimented with moving your subs around to find the best overall placement? Is this about as smooth as you can get?

Regards,
Mike
Hi asere, apart from the good questions of Mike, I'd also like to know whether this is a one mic position measurement or an REW average of multiple point meaurements taken at and around MLP?
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post #650 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 02:31 PM
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aha, i see. sure i'll rerun it tomorrow. i'll take photos of the before (current) and after results of the eq shape, it's interesting what kind of difference it would make.
thanks
Hi,

Just to further reinforce what Feri is saying, any standardized microphone placement configurations you see are only meant to give you a starting point. Sometimes, people try those standardized configurations and everything works great on the first try. Sometimes, however, it is helpful to experiment a little to find out what actually works best in your particular room.

But the suggestion that Feri gave you for positions 7 and 8 should give you an excellent starting point.

Regards,
Mike

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post #651 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Hi asere, apart from the good questions of Mike, I'd also like to know whether this is a one mic position measurement or an REW average of multiple point meaurements taken at and around MLP?
A one mic position of REW at MLP.

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post #652 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
A one mic position of REW at MLP.

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Die hard room eq fans like the ones we are here (including yourself asere) already know that a one point measurement in space says nothing about what our ears are supposed to hear.

Doing a multiple measurement that is averaged in REW will also lack what Audyssey can achive with its sophisticated fuzzy logic based algorithm, but at least it will give you/us a "quick & dirty" assumption on what is going on in our rooms.

Care to setup your measurement rig again and do a multiple placement mic test?
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post #653 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Die hard room eq fans like the ones we are here (including yourself asere) already know that a one point measurement in space says nothing about what our ears are supposed to hear.

Doing a multiple measurement that is averaged in REW will also lack what Audyssey can achive with its sophisticated fuzzy logic based algorithm, but at least it will give you/us a "quick & dirty" assumption on what is going on in our rooms.

Care to setup your measurement rig again and do a multiple placement mic test?
Actually a long time ago when I had one sub I took multiple measurements with mic at MLP and moved the sub around but got horrible results. The current placement is best. I'll try multi measurements with both subs now and see.
Also what's the closest you can place one sub from another?

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post #654 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
Actually a long time ago when I had one sub I took multiple measurements with mic at MLP and moved the sub around but got horrible results. The current placement is best. I'll try multi measurements with both subs now and see.
Also what's the closest you can place one sub from another?

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Hard to say what is the closest placement for two subs, its your room to experiment. BTW, REW has a "Room Sim" feature where you can enter your room dimensions, number of subs, etc. and move them around with mouse while watching the resulting frequency response curves.

Theoretically it can give you a good estimate on "best placement", anyway it's fun to play around with it. Give it a try if you haven't done that so far.
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post #655 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 03:26 PM
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Cool, indeed!
Regarding the new Denon AVRs and the app, I'm not clear -- if you buy one of the new AVRs, you automatically get Audyssey 'Pro', with the ability to limit Audyssey processing to just the bass (modal) frequencies?
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post #656 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by krabapple View Post
Regarding the new Denon AVRs and the app, I'm not clear -- if you buy one of the new AVRs, you automatically get Audyssey 'Pro', with the ability to limit Audyssey processing to just the bass (modal) frequencies?
As I u/stand there is no Audyssey Pro Kit anymore. You will have to separately buy the Audyssey remote app (will be available both for iOS and Android) and use it with your cellphone to create a custom curve to your liking.
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post #657 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
Actually a long time ago when I had one sub I took multiple measurements with mic at MLP and moved the sub around but got horrible results. The current placement is best. I'll try multi measurements with both subs now and see.
Also what's the closest you can place one sub from another?

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I like Feri's idea to try the room sim model. The closer two subs are, the more mutual coupling occurs (that sounds vaguely obscene ), so the more gain you will get across the full frequency spectrum of the subs. But, at least in theory, the closer the subs are, the less opportunity there is for them to fill-in for each other from a frequency response standpoint. So, if the objective is to maximize gain, you can simply stack two subs, or put them side-by-side. But, if the objective is to maximize frequency response, close proximity is rarely a good solution.

Often, opposite walls (at 1/4 wall), or two corners on the same wall, or diagonal corners works well. As you know, getting two subs situated is a little more difficult than getting just one where it works best.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

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post #658 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
As I u/stand there is no Audyssey Pro Kit anymore. You will have to separately buy the Audyssey remote app (will be available both for iOS and Android) and use it with your cellphone to create a custom curve to your liking.
Great ....but am I correct in thinking it will only work with the new Denon AVRs, and not , say, with an aging 4311CI?
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post #659 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by krabapple View Post
Great ....but am I correct in thinking it will only work with the new Denon AVRs, and not , say, with an aging 4311CI?
You are correct, it will only work with the new 2016 Denon models. No retro fitting was announced.
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post #660 of 7281 Old 06-22-2016, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I like Feri's idea to try the room sim model. The closer two subs are, the more mutual coupling occurs (that sounds vaguely obscene ), so the more gain you will get across the full frequency spectrum of the subs. But, at least in theory, the closer the subs are, the less opportunity there is for them to fill-in for each other from a frequency response standpoint. So, if the objective is to maximize gain, you can simply stack two subs, or put them side-by-side. But, if the objective is to maximize frequency response, close proximity is rarely a good solution.

Often, opposite walls (at 1/4 wall), or two corners on the same wall, or diagonal corners works well. As you know, getting two subs situated is a little more difficult than getting just one where it works best.
I have gain now as the subs are stacked by design. Kk 12012.
I'll try the room SIM and spread them out.
Now from the graph I posted audyssey is better then the mcacc one, yes?

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