"Official" Audyssey thread Part II - Page 221 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6601 of 6797 Old 06-08-2019, 06:46 PM
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Any one rerun audyssey one year after or even two years
I ask because my denon changed the layout of my speakers, and eliminated my rear ch on its own

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post #6602 of 6797 Old 06-08-2019, 07:36 PM
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@kgveteran , I've had XT32 for about four years now, and the lowest version of Audy for a few years before that, and it just so happens that something changes in my setup enough that Audy gets re-ran at least every few months (be it new carpeting, center channel upgrade, new Atmos speakers added, Atmos speakers re-configured, new seating, SW new placement/optimization, etc.); maybe the longest it didn't get re-ran was about a 1/2 year stretch).

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post #6603 of 6797 Old 06-09-2019, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
@kgveteran , I've had XT32 for about four years now, and the lowest version of Audy for a few years before that, and it just so happens that something changes in my setup enough that Audy gets re-ran at least every few months (be it new carpeting, center channel upgrade, new Atmos speakers added, Atmos speakers re-configured, new seating, SW new placement/optimization, etc.); maybe the longest it didn't get re-ran was about a 1/2 year stretch).
Sounds about right to all the above, thanx
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post #6604 of 6797 Old 06-09-2019, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
@kgveteran , I've had XT32 for about four years now, and the lowest version of Audy for a few years before that, and it just so happens that something changes in my setup enough that Audy gets re-ran at least every few months (be it new carpeting, center channel upgrade, new Atmos speakers added, Atmos speakers re-configured, new seating, SW new placement/optimization, etc.); maybe the longest it didn't get re-ran was about a 1/2 year stretch).

I ran Audyssey over and over again for a few days, and when it sounded very good, and clearly better than without Audyssey, and measurement (REW and calibrated mic) confirmed that, I stopped. That was in 2011.


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post #6605 of 6797 Old 06-10-2019, 10:39 PM
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Eq Question

Trying to get rid of crazy sibilance I'm hearing in my system when watching TV with Verizon Fios One cable box. Using a Denon AVR X3400H, Audyssey , have Multi EQ app and Ratbudyssey. Tried creating dips at 5K and 8K, but they do no good. Tried using Slope#2 in Multi EQ, still no good. Nothing I try seems to help at all, only makes overall sound muddy. 7.1 Speaker setup with Mirage M3 fronts, Paradigm Center, NHT Sub. Can't tell if curve adjustments I'm making actually have any effect at the frequencies I make them. Also when viewing in Ratbudyssey if I view with very little smoothing, the upper end looks like a total hash of points. Any suggestions ?

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post #6606 of 6797 Old 06-11-2019, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ClemC View Post
Trying to get rid of crazy sibilance I'm hearing in my system when watching TV with Verizon Fios One cable box. Using a Denon AVR X3400H, Audyssey , have Multi EQ app and Ratbudyssey. Tried creating dips at 5K and 8K, but they do no good. Tried using Slope#2 in Multi EQ, still no good. Nothing I try seems to help at all, only makes overall sound muddy. 7.1 Speaker setup with Mirage M3 fronts, Paradigm Center, NHT Sub. Can't tell if curve adjustments I'm making actually have any effect at the frequencies I make them. Also when viewing in Ratbudyssey if I view with very little smoothing, the upper end looks like a total hash of points. Any suggestions ?

If you're only getting the problem with your Verizon cable box then it sounds like the problem is something in Verizon's content or in what its box is doing to the signal. Is this a new problem? By that I mean have you been using the box for a period and the problem is only starting to show up recently or has it been there since you got the box? If you've had the box for a while and the problem is only now starting to show up then I'd be checking whether either the box needs replacing or whether you've got a problem in the connection path between box and Denon.
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post #6607 of 6797 Old 06-11-2019, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemC View Post
Trying to get rid of crazy sibilance I'm hearing in my system when watching TV with Verizon Fios One cable box. Using a Denon AVR X3400H, Audyssey , have Multi EQ app and Ratbudyssey. Tried creating dips at 5K and 8K, but they do no good. Tried using Slope#2 in Multi EQ, still no good. Nothing I try seems to help at all, only makes overall sound muddy. 7.1 Speaker setup with Mirage M3 fronts, Paradigm Center, NHT Sub. Can't tell if curve adjustments I'm making actually have any effect at the frequencies I make them. Also when viewing in Ratbudyssey if I view with very little smoothing, the upper end looks like a total hash of points. Any suggestions ?

It happens , initially I created notches at 250hz, 500hz., and 5k to 8k and left 16k roll off via Audyssey. Then I watched Killing Eve streaming ( horrible sound; excessive boost in the 4k range) I learned to accept that some shows are just mixed poorly audio wise. While my previous calibration was great for music, I had to make a compromise between music and movie watching. I just re calibrated , let Audyssey do its thing . Left my towers at full and let Audyssey ignore everything from 4k to 16k (relying on my front and center's natural frequency response in the top end. .If you want to tame muddiness try taming down 250hz.

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post #6608 of 6797 Old 06-11-2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by David Aiken View Post
If you're only getting the problem with your Verizon cable box then it sounds like the problem is something in Verizon's content or in what its box is doing to the signal. Is this a new problem? By that I mean have you been using the box for a period and the problem is only starting to show up recently or has it been there since you got the box? If you've had the box for a while and the problem is only now starting to show up then I'd be checking whether either the box needs replacing or whether you've got a problem in the connection path between box and Denon.

The problem really started about 6 months ago.Called Verizon, said try new box. Went from a 7100 to a 7200, to a 4100 Fios one box, new ONT, all new cabling, switched from Yamaha to Denon receiver, all with no joy. I've since found Verizon is using Dolby Volume processing on their signals and is converting all sources to Dolby 5.1 regardless of source. What I'm trying to do is apply a band-aid so I can at least enjoy what I am watching. That's why I tried the Multi Eq app and Ratbudyssey, to try to EQ the sound to get rid of some of the sibilance. Any ideas what I should do to achieve that?
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post #6609 of 6797 Old 06-11-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by denze View Post
It happens , initially I created notches at 250hz, 500hz., and 5k to 8k and left 16k roll off via Audyssey. Then I watched Killing Eve streaming ( horrible sound; excessive boost in the 4k range) I learned to accept that some shows are just mixed poorly audio wise. While my previous was great for music, I had to make a compromise between music and movie watching. I just re calibrated let Audyssey do its thing . Left my towers at full and let Audyssey ignore everything from 4k to 16k (relying on my front and center's natural frequency response in the top end. .If you want to tame muddyness try taming down 250hz

Thanks, I'll give that a try. Totally agree with you about Killing Eve. Thought it was just me, but same bad sound from Verizon box and streaming thru Roku. Did the notches help, or the recal?
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post #6610 of 6797 Old 06-11-2019, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ClemC View Post
The problem really started about 6 months ago.Called Verizon, said try new box. Went from a 7100 to a 7200, to a 4100 Fios one box, new ONT, all new cabling, switched from Yamaha to Denon receiver, all with no joy. I've since found Verizon is using Dolby Volume processing on their signals and is converting all sources to Dolby 5.1 regardless of source. What I'm trying to do is apply a band-aid so I can at least enjoy what I am watching. That's why I tried the Multi Eq app and Ratbudyssey, to try to EQ the sound to get rid of some of the sibilance. Any ideas what I should do to achieve that?
Sibilance is a complicated problem. I've seen comments that it's related to issues in an area ranging from 4 kHz to 8 kHz or so, different frequencies depending on who was making the comment. They were all quite possibly correct, for their issue. Pinning down the frequency may not be easy but if you're only getting it with content from the Verizon box then fixing it with Audyssey is going to affect every other source you have and what makes it better for Verizon content may make it worse for other content. If Verizon is your most used source that may not be much of an issue for you but if you use other sources a lot more than you use Verizon and fixing the problem with Audyssey makes things worse for the other sources then you're just creating a different problem for yourself and it may annoy you a lot more. It's easy to make one Audyssey profile for Verizon and another for other sources if you're using the MultEQ app and you can swap between them depending on which source you're using but doing that is likely to get annoying very quickly.

Audyssey is intended to fix room problems, not problems with one specific source. If you're going to try using Audyssey to fix the problem then I think you're going to be doing a lot of experimenting because first you have to find an Audyssey adjustment that fixes the Verizon problem and then you're going to have to see how that works with other sources. If it makes things worse for other sources and creates a bigger problem then you're going to have to try and find an adjustment that minimises the issues for both Verizon and for the other sources. That may or may not be possible, and it may take a fair bit of trial and error. There's no guarantees that you'll find something that works or, if you can find something that works reasonably well with all sources including Verizon, that you can find it quickly and/or easily.

There are 3 things I'd try first, given the range of frequencies I've seen people say are associated with sibilance. Both use the MultEQ app. I can't help you with Ratbudyssey because I have no experience with it. Going from easiest to hardest, the things I'd try are:

1- This is the easy one. Turn Audyssey off and use the treble tone control, turning it down. See if you can solve the Verizon issue just doing that. If you can then you can use Audyssey with other sources and just do this with Verizon which is probably the simplest way of swapping between one thing for Verizon and something else for the other sources because you can do it without reloading Audyssey profiles. If your bass gets boomy or problematic with Audyssey off, try a small adjustment with the bass tone control.

2- A bit more work involved. Start with the standard Reference curve and eliminate the mid-range compensation dip. Don't touch anything else. The dip occurs between about 2 and 4 kHz and there's a rise in response around 4 kHz where the dip ends. It's possible that it's the rise in response there that's making things sound worse with Verizon. If removing that rise at 4 kHz after the dip makes the issue less noticeable it's possible that it won't make things too bad for the other sources. You can experiment with both variations of the Reference curve.

3 - More work again. Start with the Reference curve option with the steepest high frequency roll off and start tweaking it. You could try rolling it off faster but I'd probably commence with starting the roll off a little lower down in frequency before I started changing the rate of the roll off. I'd also eliminate the mid-range compensation dip in combination with this. If you start playing with this option you're probably looking at trial and error as you play with adjusting the start of the roll off and the slope of the roll off. Try small adjustments because the bigger the adjustment the more likely ii is that the result will be noticeably worse for other sources.

None of the above involve notches in the curve. If you're going to try notches then life will be a lot easier if you can pinpoint the frequency which is causing the problem because otherwise you're going to have to experiment to find the frequency and then experiment to find the appropriate notch parameters.

And like I said earlier, you may not be able to come up with a response curve that works well with all sources. Fixing the Verizon problem may make things worse for other sources because this is not the sort of problem Audyssey is intended to fix because it's a problem related to a specific source, not a room related problem affecting all sources.
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post #6611 of 6797 Old 06-11-2019, 04:32 PM
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^ One other suggestion, worth trying first. If you have DEQ turned on, try turning it off with Verizon and see if that helps.
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Center and Surrounds

Hi Guys,

Was wondering if anyone adjusts center and surrounds with DEQ off? I adjust subwoofer and use tone control for the mid bass but have not look at the center or surrounds without DEQ.
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Originally Posted by David Aiken View Post
^ One other suggestion, worth trying first. If you have DEQ turned on, try turning it off with Verizon and see if that helps.
Wasn't using DEQ, didn't really like the results. Thanks for the replies. I am using MultiEQ, so I'll give your suggestions a shot. Have a feeling it's related to the compression and conversion Verizon is using, and I may not even be able to reduce it at all.


Thanks again.
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post #6614 of 6797 Old 06-13-2019, 05:53 AM
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Hi Guys,

Was wondering if anyone adjusts center and surrounds with DEQ off? I adjust subwoofer and use tone control for the mid bass but have not look at the center or surrounds without DEQ.
Usually when I double check my results after running Audyssey, with test tones and an SPL meter and my listening volume to -10, they are pretty balanced already and I don't really find the need to adjust them. I know some people bump up the center channel to +1dB from the L/R mains though. I also like to keep my surrounds balanced too, so since I use DEQ because I like what it does with my bass, I have to bring down the surrounds and top rears by 1 to 2dB since DEQ boosts those (I aim for -10dB listening for movies).
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Severe rolloff with XT32

Hoping somebody can help here, I was running REW earlier today checking LFE response and decided to check the response of my mains as well, when I went back and summed the measurements from my left and right speakers they appear fairly flat, when I applied XT32 and measured I found a severe rolloff in the highs, I knew there was some but this seems excessive. I will say that I had to use the included stand with umik-1 so I was well below ear level but regardless, both measurements were taken the same way, these difference are staggering to me. Room is 24x14x8 and couch is against back wall/fireplace but made sure to not get closer than 2' to back wall per recommendations. I'm attaching both measurements both with and without audyssey applied and hoping someone can provide some insight here. 1/6 Smoothing was applied to measurements.
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post #6616 of 6797 Old 06-13-2019, 07:28 PM
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bought new speakers and will break them in for a couple weeks.
should i run audyssey after they are broken in or doest it matter
not sure if room measurements etc. would change if i ran audyssey now vs after the breakin

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post #6617 of 6797 Old 06-13-2019, 08:41 PM
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bought new speakers and will break them in for a couple weeks.
should i run audyssey after they are broken in or doest it matter
not sure if room measurements etc. would change if i ran audyssey now vs after the breakin

I'd break them in first.
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post #6618 of 6797 Old 06-13-2019, 08:44 PM
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when I applied XT32 and measured I found a severe rolloff in the highs, I knew there was some but this seems excessive.
Pretty normal. Your graph looks much worse than it is because of the scale--linear instead of logarithmic. If you switch the horizontal axis it'll look much better. You can always try flat and see how that sounds or if you have the app you can reduce the rolloff manually.
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post #6619 of 6797 Old 06-13-2019, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rockluc View Post
Hoping somebody can help here, I was running REW earlier today checking LFE response and decided to check the response of my mains as well, when I went back and summed the measurements from my left and right speakers they appear fairly flat, when I applied XT32 and measured I found a severe rolloff in the highs, I knew there was some but this seems excessive. I will say that I had to use the included stand with umik-1 so I was well below ear level but regardless, both measurements were taken the same way, these difference are staggering to me. Room is 24x14x8 and couch is against back wall/fireplace but made sure to not get closer than 2' to back wall per recommendations. I'm attaching both measurements both with and without audyssey applied and hoping someone can provide some insight here. 1/6 Smoothing was applied to measurements.

I don't know, but something is weird.


When you compared the playback curves, did you use Audyssey Flat, or Audyssey Reference? Audyssey Reference knocks down the treble (but not that much). To compare, I'd use Audyssey Flat.



This is not the cause, but we are used to seeing log graphs, which is default on my REW.


The rectangles that make up the graph are tall and thin on one graph and nearly square on the other. But that is not responsible for the difference, either.


  • I'd find a way to put the mics (both the Audyssey mic and, in turn, the REW mic) at ear level (pile up books, if you have to, for now).
  • Just for superstition's sake, warm up the equipment before starting.
  • Point the Audyssey mic directly at the ceiling (sight it from two directions), and re-run Audyssey. Use all 8 mic positions.
  • Make sure you have entered your mic calibration number into REW, if your mic came with one, and that is what your instructions say (I know that's not it).
  • Try.to put the REW mic in the same 8 positions that the Audyssey mic was in, overlay the traces, and either average them (REW has a button for this), or just eyeball the traces (I'd average them). The curves will still be different, because the Audyssey software ("fuzzy logic") is "smarter" than a dumb bunny average. Paul Klipsch and Edgar Villchur disagreed about nearly everything except that the use of a single microphone position doomed the usefulness of home equalizers, as usually employed, back then. A movement of a few inches can make a great difference.
  • 1/6 smoothing is fine.
If all else fails, get a new Audyssey mic. A few people here have had their first one fail.
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Originally Posted by David Aiken View Post
^ One other suggestion, worth trying first. If you have DEQ turned on, try turning it off with Verizon and see if that helps.

Gave some of your suggestions a shot. Turned off MRC completely and used curve #2 in the MultiEQ app. That actualy helped quite a bit, at least there was an improvement to the point I'm not completely annoyed all the time. Ill live with this for a while, maybe try editing a bit more, but this was a good start. Hopefully Verizon will give in and do what I'm asking of them.


Thanks again.
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post #6621 of 6797 Old 06-14-2019, 08:00 PM
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Pretty normal. Your graph looks much worse than it is because of the scale--linear instead of logarithmic. If you switch the horizontal axis it'll look much better. You can always try flat and see how that sounds or if you have the app you can reduce the rolloff manually.
I think this did the trick, changed over to logarithmic and looks much better now.
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post #6622 of 6797 Old 06-15-2019, 02:11 AM
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Yup, that sure looks better. However, I do think your original concern is still valid--that's a bigger rolloff than Audyssey Reference curve should typically give. Is your receiver new enough to use the app? If so you can take a look at what Audyssey measured--opening the file in Ratbuddy you can see each individual mic measurement. That would allow you to compare to REW measurements and quickly identify a bad mic. It could also identify if some specific mic locations are giving you wacky measurements due to some reflection or something of which you weren't aware so you can alter your mic placement during calibration.


Also, in getting this figured out it's probably easier to measure the left and right channel separately to help find the source of the problem.
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post #6623 of 6797 Old 06-15-2019, 02:37 AM
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--that's a bigger rolloff than Audyssey Reference curve should typically give..


I agree. According to Chris K of Audyssey, the electrical curve Audyssey Reference imposes is -2 dB at 10K, and -6 dB at 20K. The resulting acoustical curve would be expected to be a little closer to that than what you got, especially since your former "Audyssey Off" curve shows that your speakers in your room are capable.
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post #6624 of 6797 Old 06-15-2019, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon AA View Post
Yup, that sure looks better. However, I do think your original concern is still valid--that's a bigger rolloff than Audyssey Reference curve should typically give. Is your receiver new enough to use the app? If so you can take a look at what Audyssey measured--opening the file in Ratbuddy you can see each individual mic measurement. That would allow you to compare to REW measurements and quickly identify a bad mic. It could also identify if some specific mic locations are giving you wacky measurements due to some reflection or something of which you weren't aware so you can alter your mic placement during calibration.


Also, in getting this figured out it's probably easier to measure the left and right channel separately to help find the source of the problem.
Unfortunately my AVR isn’t new enough for that. I’m going to rerun these once I am able to get an adapter for my tripod for the umik-1 and can set it at ear level. It was about 2’ below ear level due to the stand that’s provided. If that doesn’t help I may redo Audyssey with different positions. Since I can’t do behind the couch with it against the back wall I did the 3 seating positions on the couch 2 spots about a foot in front of them and 3 spots another foot in front of that. Almost shaped like a capital i.
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post #6625 of 6797 Old 06-17-2019, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
I agree. According to Chris K of Audyssey, the electrical curve Audyssey Reference imposes is -2 dB at 10K, and -6 dB at 20K. The resulting acoustical curve would be expected to be a little closer to that than what you got, especially since your former "Audyssey Off" curve shows that your speakers in your room are capable.
Good to know.

Has anyone measured to see how Flat + CinemaEQ compares? I've always been curious.

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post #6626 of 6797 Old 06-17-2019, 12:08 PM
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was trying to run audyssey with a jbl 550p but it isnt detected.
is it possible i might have the volume knob on the sub turned too low? wondering if that would cause audyssey to not get a signal?
thinking about returning the sub
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post #6627 of 6797 Old 06-17-2019, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mariogonzalezzz View Post
was trying to run audyssey with a jbl 550p but it isnt detected.
is it possible i might have the volume knob on the sub turned too low? wondering if that would cause audyssey to not get a signal?
thinking about returning the sub

If the sub is not detected then you need to check the hook-up to the AVR. BTW, what AVR do you have?
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post #6628 of 6797 Old 06-17-2019, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
If the sub is not detected then you need to check the hook-up to the AVR. BTW, what AVR do you have?
well i turned the sub on and during audyssey process i said yes to is sub connected.
tried 2 different cables, one from my other sub in use.
using a denon 1712

what i mean by not detect is when it starts calibrating with the sounds, it skips the subwoofer and even the subwoofer icon is not on the on screen image.

Last edited by mariogonzalezzz; 06-17-2019 at 01:02 PM.
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post #6629 of 6797 Old 06-17-2019, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mariogonzalezzz View Post
well i turned the sub on and during audyssey process i said yes to is sub connected.
tried 2 different cables, one from my other sub in use.
using a denon 1712

what i mean by not detect is when it starts calibrating with the sounds, it skips the subwoofer and even the subwoofer icon is not on the on screen image.

Well, in that case I would do a microprocessor reset on the Denon 1712. Look up the manual for the process.
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post #6630 of 6797 Old 06-18-2019, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ClemC View Post
Trying to get rid of crazy sibilance I'm hearing in my system when watching TV with Verizon Fios One cable box. Using a Denon AVR X3400H, Audyssey , have Multi EQ app and Ratbudyssey. Tried creating dips at 5K and 8K, but they do no good. Tried using Slope#2 in Multi EQ, still no good. Nothing I try seems to help at all, only makes overall sound muddy. 7.1 Speaker setup with Mirage M3 fronts, Paradigm Center, NHT Sub. Can't tell if curve adjustments I'm making actually have any effect at the frequencies I make them. Also when viewing in Ratbudyssey if I view with very little smoothing, the upper end looks like a total hash of points. Any suggestions ?

Have you tried switching the Audio on the Verizon box to audio-pass through. You have to get into the white setup menu. Access menu turn the tv one box off by pressing the big button on the setup box. turn the box back on and immediately press the ok button on the remote control twice. It is not easy to do it takes some patients. once the screen appears press the back arrow on the remote control which brings you to the main page of the white screen. Goto user settings and goto additional HDMI settings. highlight audio which is set auto and switch it to audio-passthrough. that should give you what you are looking for. The cable box will no longer do the audio processing your AVR will. when exiting the menu of the setup screen press the menu button o the remote or the changes will not save, that is important

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