Originally Posted by David Aiken
There's not much you can do. As far as your AVR goes, the answer is pretty much nothing, there's minimal provision for changing Audyssey results provided by the AVR. You can manually adjust the trims to adjust the level of different channels but that doesn't alter the correction filters in any way so whatever peaks and dips there are in the curve will remain, just a little louder or softer due to the trim level adjustment.
I think the first thing to consider is how you like the sound of the result. It sounds like you're concerned about the flatness of the curve in the bass region and the fact is that you can look at a bass response curve, see peaks and dips and think it looks bad—which it can—but what looks bad on a plot doesn't sound anywhere near as bad to our ears. We don't "hear" the curve. What we "hear" has been filtered by the auditory processes in our brain and a lot of the things that can look bad on curves just aren't noticed by us so there's no need to obsess about achieving a perfectly flat curve. The audible result of doing that is much smaller than the visible impression that the flat curve creates. Even great sound does not measure perfectly and good to great sound never looks as good on a curve as it sounds to our ears.
Provided you have an AVR that can work with the MultEQ app on an iOS/Android device, the MultEQ app gives you the ability to tailor the curve quite a bit which is something that your AVR lacks. If you want to try adjusting the curve a bit then the MultEQ app is the best and really the only way that Audyssey lets you play with adjusting the response curve in any way so it's worth looking at.
Apart from that your options default to:
1- rerunning Audyssey and experimenting with slightly different mic position placements for the measurements, closer or further apart mic positions. There's no way of predicting what kind of mic placements will produce a result you'll like the look—and sound—of so be prepared to try lots of different mic placements.
2- adjustments to speaker positioning and listening position placement and rerunning Audyssey. You may be able to get a smoother looking response but it may take a fair bit of experimenting
3- different room correction processors included in other makes of AVR or other processing systems such as Dirac
4- physical room acoustic treatments in conjunction with Audyssey or some other processor, and that brings with it the same warning that there's no way of predicting what will give you what you want and you're going to need to experiment.
If your ability to alter your speaker placements and listening position location are limited then the MultEQ app is the most flexible way to go. You can do a single measurement process and then play with different adjustments to the response curve at your leisure without needing to keep repeating the setup process and the app is way cheaper than a different processor and/or physical acoustic treatments.
Originally Posted by garygarrison
- Audyssey itself provides EQ over hundreds of points (as opposed to, maybe, 36 points/ranges with an equalizer). Be sure to use all mic positions. That will probably produce flatter sound than you could ever produce with a conventional equalizer (with Audyssey Flat; with Audyssey Reference, you get a little dip at about 2K, and about -2 dB at 10K, sloping down to -6 dB at 20K).
- Either put in any absorbers or diffusors or bass traps you intend to use before running Audyssey, or run Audyssey again after putting in the acoustical treatments.
- Stay away from "Base copy" or the like, because it isn't really copy in that it loses a great deal of information (hundreds of points) that Audyssey collects.
- Just because Audyssey gives you a pretty flat room, doesn't mean you will like it, for many reasons. Audyssey calls this the difference between Reference and Preference. No matter, we can fix! See J. Gordon Holt's article "Down with flat" -- Apr 29, 1985, https://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/138/index.htmlon the Stereophile website, and the rebuttal by Cordsman, indexed at the bottom of the article. Part of what Holt is getting at is many recordings in his day have high frequency distortion, so you may want to back off the treble, or otherwise change the EQ due to differences in taste between you and the recording engineers. There's good news and bad news. The good news is that high frequency distortion due to things like mis-tracking cartridges, or over-recorded digital are much rarer today. The bad news is that recording companies tend to pump up the upper midrange, and reduce the ultra highs, and, especially the bass for ridiculous reasons (see Chris A, "The Missing Octave," https://community.klipsch.com/index....racks/page/13/ and his other posts on de-mastering on the Klipsch Community Forum). IMO this is one reason why almost all Audyssey users turn up the bass after calibrating, by 3 to 9 dB, using a bass tone control (if available) and/or turning the gain knob on the subwoofer up a bit. Caution, don't turn the subwoofer trim in the AVR up that much; for how to do it right, see forum member Mike Thomas's GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES
* "The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement."
- For the (fewer) music recordings or movies with treble distortion, Audyssey Reference works well, in most cases, even though that's not exactly what it is meant for. The end result with good recordings may be fairly flat response (+/- 3 dB, or better) above 80 or 100, or 200 or 800Hz, and boosted bass below. In my case (with Audyssey Flat), I get +/- 2.5 dB from 800 to 15Khz, and bass boosted grandly below, up to an average of + 9 dB below 80Hz. I can't help it, I like the authority it gives timpani, bass drum, tom, tam-tam, and some of the rest of what we orchestra members used to call the kitchen. It's not flat, but it is smooth and graceful, not kinky, as it was before Audyssey.
Mike's guide, above, is the more up to date, but you might scan the FAQ
, chiefly by another forum member, Keith Barnes: "Audyssey FAQ Linked Here"
Sorry for taking so long to thank you!
Super value information you both gave me
- I agree with you regarding the "data Vs ears" question.
Still, I am curious to know what is happening in my room
and although I tend to agree with you, there are things one needs to adress in order to achieve a more... integrated sound.
Peaks and dips are two of those things. No room is perfect, we all know that, but we have to do what we can with what we have to try to achieve that magical place we like to call "Earvana" (or at least, to get close to it eheh).
Sadly my SR7009 doesn't support the MultiEQ app, so I can't perform any kind equalisation/tailoring to the sound.
Quite frankly, for now, that isn't my intention - I have scarse knowledge regarding the theme so I won't be spending my money on something that would probably (for now) do more harm than good...
Of course, for 20 bucks, the app would be an acceptable (super cheap!) investment to make and would allow me to learn more about the process while giving me a bit more control over the sound, but as I said, my AVR isn't supported. Bummer...
You basically covered all my options there
You brought up the question about how I like the results... well... I have to say that I haven't been very happy with them. I often feel that "something's missing"... but I can't identify where the problem lies... is it Audyssey? Is it my room? Both? Is it content related? Something else? aaaaargh
I've been struggling throughout the years to get a consistent performance/behaviour from my system. Sometimes I watch a movie and think: "Oh! This is sounding good!"... then I watch another one and things seem way off... (D.Eq and D.Vol set to OFF - lately I've even been turning Audyssey EQ OFF!). Watching live concerts (even with DTS HD-MA/True Hd tracks) often results in... disapointment... it's weird! The sound sounds THIN!
Getting clear dialogs has been difficult.
Many times I find myself raising the volume to compensate for that lack of clarity but then the bass becomes overwhelming... raising the center channel level doesn't cut it either (in a near future I'll upgrade the Monitor Audio Bronze center channel to a Golden Ear Supercenter XXL and hopefully it will improve!). The sound I get from the front speakers seems dull/softened... it lacks impact!
It's hard to explain, sorry!
Could it be related to the volume I listen my contents?
I live in an apartment so I usually don't go beyond (-)20dB (after calibration, I matched all the speaker levels to 80dB with an SPL meter - boosted the center channel by 1dB)... I feel that is very difficult to achieve a good balance between a present bass and clear dialogs.
Now, I have to share this
(and it goes towards the "data Vs ears" question you raised) - I re-ran Audyssey today and level matched the speakers to 80dB (center channel boosted by 1dB). Turned OFF - D.EQ/D.Vol./MultEQ XT32 and every sound processing gimmicks... Played one of the movies I'm familiar with and........... WOW! What the heck??? Dialogs are fuller and louder! The Triton's are sounding good and delivering a snappy, powerfull, rich sound!
The mic positions I used were the same, everything was set to OFF as it was before... so, what on earth changed?!
I forgot to change the crossover settings!
Until today, I always manually set the size and crossovers following the rules of thumb: SMALL/(around) 80Hz/4 to 5dB boost to subwoofer level.
But because I forgot to do this, I was listening to the front speakers set to LARGE, the center channel with a XO set to 40Hz and the surrounds to 120Hz...
I need to watch/listen my contents carefully again (still in the honeymoon period lol), but this seems to be a case where it all seems to sound right (or at least, better than it was) but with a set of non recommended settings (ok, exception made to the Tritons... Sandy's advice is to always set them as LARGE)... go figure LOL
I suspect that because the Triton's have built-in subs, this is helping to even out the bass response in the room (Gene from Audioholics refers to the importance of dual subs to bass management a ton of times in his videos!).
- will definetely look into that article! Thanks!
Sorry for the wall of text and sorry for any writing mistake I probably made (English is not my native language)