"Official" Audyssey thread Part II - Page 241 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7201 of 7265 Old 11-27-2019, 06:20 AM
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I like to bump the center 1.5dB, it makes it easier to hear dialogue. Especially at my very low level TV/Netflix watching. (-40dB on the volume display isnt uncommon)
I also reduce surrounds around 1-2dB but thats for movie watching, i rarely turn on the surrounds amp for most TV/netflix watching.


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post #7202 of 7265 Old 11-27-2019, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overrid3 View Post
Yeah, probably not much of a difference. The one main speaker was fluctuating between 2 readings, so I just bumped up the center a tad. They actually read 76 or 77 dB, but maybe that's just a discrepancy between my radio shack meter and the Audyssey mic? At any rate, things sound good I've read in some other threads what people like to boost their centers a bit to make sure the dialogue is clear.


Coincidently i used my RS meter also just to see. Read at 77db aswell. Not sure if anyone else does but i boost the source level input for all my sources . Everything including dialog is very clear..


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post #7203 of 7265 Old 11-27-2019, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rocky1 View Post
Coincidently i used my RS meter also just to see. Read at 77db aswell. Not sure if anyone else does but i boost the source level input for all my sources . Everything including dialog is very clear..


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I think it is more convenient to leave the source levels untouched and use the Master Volume knob. Boosting source levels will surely throw-off DEQ. Just a thought!
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post #7204 of 7265 Old 11-27-2019, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
I like to bump the center 1.5dB, it makes it easier to hear dialogue. Especially at my very low level TV/Netflix watching. (-40dB on the volume display isnt uncommon)
I also reduce surrounds around 1-2dB but thats for movie watching, i rarely turn on the surrounds amp for most TV/netflix watching.


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I think everything should start from proper center speaker placement. Basic guidelines are as follows:


1. Make sure center speaker is on-axis with seated ear height. Every speaker delivers not only its highest SPL, but also its widest frequency range on-axis.

2. Make sure to nudge center speaker about and inch or so off the shelf/cabinet. This will help tame so-called early reflections helping to improve dialog intelligibility.
3. If you have a coffee table in front of you make sure to put some textile on it, especially if it has a glass top. This is another treatment to tame reflections of the table top in the mid to high frequency range.


When all above is done its time to run Audyssey MultEQ. Hope this helps!
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post #7205 of 7265 Old 11-27-2019, 09:31 AM
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"Official" Audyssey thread Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
I think everything should start from proper center speaker placement. Basic guidelines are as follows:


1. Make sure center speaker is on-axis with seated ear height. Every speaker delivers not only its highest SPL, but also its widest frequency range on-axis.

2. Make sure to nudge center speaker about and inch or so off the shelf/cabinet. This will help tame so-called early reflections helping to improve dialog intelligibility.
3. If you have a coffee table in front of you make sure to put some textile on it, especially if it has a glass top. This is another treatment to tame reflections of the table top in the mid to high frequency range.


When all above is done its time to run Audyssey MultEQ. Hope this helps!


I have it quite well set up, good gear and room is not loud at all, the slight volume increase is for normal watching to focus slightly on voices instead of effects from the main speakers so i can keep the volume pretty low. At -40dB people drown out the speakers while speaking very softly but at times i need it very low and im not bothering to change for perfection all the time. Audyssey is turned off, it gives me almost a headache even when set up very well. Im just so used to the room and how things sound here that the changes audyssey make are demanding on the brain causing fatigue.
The settings are all intentional, what i do need to get done is move two of the subs off the sub stack and place elsewhere to even out the bass a little more, hopefully ill get that done soon

Edit: forgot to mention that the advice is good and a lot of people should tweak the placement and room but i have already done all these.


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post #7206 of 7265 Old 11-27-2019, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
I think it is more convenient to leave the source levels untouched and use the Master Volume knob. Boosting source levels will surely throw-off DEQ. Just a thought!


Wasnt aware of this. Out of town now but when i get back ill set all back to 0. Dont want to mess things up. Didnt notice it did though..


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post #7207 of 7265 Old 11-27-2019, 01:40 PM
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This is for all my friends here at this forum. I cordially invite you to click on the "Audyssey quotes" in my sig that I have collected throughout the years containing a myriad of information on in-depths of Audyssey mainly discussed by members with Chris Kyriakakis/author of Audyssey while he was also a member here and again at FB Audyssey Tech Talk.

Should you be interested to read through all the Q&As I'm sure it will keep you busy for quite a bit of time. Valuable time, indeed.


Best of luck to all.
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post #7208 of 7265 Old 11-27-2019, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
I think it is more convenient to leave the source levels untouched and use the Master Volume knob. Boosting source levels will surely throw-off DEQ. Just a thought!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky1 View Post
Wasnt aware of this. Out of town now but when i get back ill set all back to 0. Dont want to mess things up. Didnt notice it did though..


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IMO, adjusting the source level on "non-Reference" sources (i.e. not your blu ray player) is perfectly fine. Bringing the level of these sources up/down so that they are more in-line with the Reference sources should (in theory) actually make DEQ work better.

My 2 cents.
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post #7209 of 7265 Old 11-27-2019, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
IMO, adjusting the source level on "non-Reference" sources (i.e. not your blu ray player) is perfectly fine. Bringing the level of these sources up/down so that they are more in-line with the Reference sources should (in theory) actually make DEQ work better.

My 2 cents.

Alan, you may be right, but let's thing about it bit more. What are "non-Reference" sources? IMHO they are basically music recordings, aren't they? With playback levels all over the map! How tedious it would be to adjust source level each and every time one would listen to such recordings!!!


In my case I use Foobar for music and apply a "Replay gain" adjustment that puts a tag (metadata) into the bitstream where I can even out the level of the source itself without the need to continuously readjust source level on the AVR.


My 2 c.
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post #7210 of 7265 Old 11-27-2019, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Alan, you may be right, but let's thing about it bit more. What are "non-Reference" sources? IMHO they are basically music recordings, aren't they? With playback levels all over the map! How tedious it would be to adjust source level each and every time one would listen to such recordings!!!


In my case I use Foobar for music and apply a "Replay gain" adjustment that puts a tag (metadata) into the bitstream where I can even out the level of the source itself without the need to continuously readjust source level on the AVR.


My 2 c.
I agree Feri, using Replay Gain on music is the way to go...but most are unwilling to go through that process.

By "non-Reference" sources, I did not just mean music...there is cable TV, OTA TV and streaming services as well. If you have, say, a streaming box that you notice is much quieter than your blu ray player, I see no issue in bringing up the source level so that the average SPL more mimics blu ray. Of course, the different streaming services and TV stations can vary in level, and individual content can vary as well....it's all kind of a crapshoot once you get away from blu ray.
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post #7211 of 7265 Old 11-27-2019, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I agree Feri, using Replay Gain on music is the way to go...but most are unwilling to go through that process.

By "non-Reference" sources, I did not just mean music...there is cable TV, OTA TV and streaming services as well. If you have, say, a streaming box that you notice is much quieter than your blu ray player, I see no issue in bringing up the source level so that the average SPL more mimics blu ray. Of course, the different streaming services and TV stations can vary in level, and individual content can vary as well....it's all kind of a crapshoot once you get away from blu ray.

You nailed it Alan. Fully agree! Like your description of "crapshoot"!
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post #7212 of 7265 Old 11-27-2019, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Overrid3 View Post
Really basic question, but do you guys boost your center channel at all from where Audyssey sets it? I checked my speakers post-cal with an SPL meter, and they were pretty balanced. I added +1 dB to my center just to make sure dialogue has a slight edge.

  • For most films, I have the center up 1 to 2 dB
  • For thick accents of any kind, especially Cockney and Irish, it's more like 2 to 3 dB.
  • For the British version of Trainspotting, forget the whole thing.
  • For films with dialog problems I make sure I'm using Audyssey Flat, not Audyssey Reference (just plain Audyssey, which has a roll off in the treble above about 7K, veiling enunciation). Audyssey Flat emphasizes clarity carrying phonemes. My very first Hi Fi book (in the 1960s) had a section on reproduction of speech, breaking the auditory spectrum down into sections. I was particularly interested in the range above about 1K ranging up to 10K labeled "fricative consonants").
IMO, film people used to be a lot more careful in recording and mixing dialog. We run both old and new films, about 1 old one for every 10 new ones, and we see 3 or 4 films per week. Even though recording technology has improved magnificently in the last 3 or 4 decades, the older movies still have the clearest dialog. Yet the music in the newer films is of the highest fidelity in film history. My center channel has the same drivers as the LF & RF, and is very clear. For the following OLD films, the dialog is crystal clear, and my wife and I -- with our old ears -- could understand every word: The Searchers, Citizen Kane, The Misfits, The African Queen, Vertigo, The Man Who Knew Too Much, Lawrence of Arabia, Ben-Hur, (1959), Around the World in 80 Days (1956), How the West West Was Wonand many more!


Now, someone might say that these were optical soundtracks, which rolled off at just about the same place that Audyssey Reference does (or even lower). But all of the above films except for Citizen Kane would have had their original elements (dialog, effects, music) recorded on synchronized 35mm full coat magnetic film (or 16mm mag film to save costs), then mixed and dubbed over to optical only for release prints. In most cases, where possible, the Blu-rays of these old films use the original magnetic elements, and Lawrence, Ben-Hur, 80 Days, and HTWWW were magnetic all the way. Care was taken.

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post #7213 of 7265 Old 11-28-2019, 12:45 PM
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Subwoofer boost

I have an old but reliable self-powered Klipsch RSW-12 subwoofer and a Marantz 8805 pre/pro. After running Audyssey, I like some more oomph in the bass. I can achieve this by turning up the volume on the RSW (it's only at about 30% when the levels are matched) or bumping up the sub level on the 8805 (this gives me a maximum increase of +12 db according to the scale). Is one method more desirable than another?
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post #7214 of 7265 Old 11-28-2019, 12:59 PM
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I have an old but reliable self-powered Klipsch RSW-12 subwoofer and a Marantz 8805 pre/pro. After running Audyssey, I like some more oomph in the bass. I can achieve this by turning up the volume on the RSW (it's only at about 30% when the levels are matched) or bumping up the sub level on the 8805 (this gives me a maximum increase of +12 db according to the scale). Is one method more desirable than another?


Doing it in the 8805 will make it easier to get back to the way it is now and not get lost, but other than that it doesnt matter.


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post #7215 of 7265 Old 12-02-2019, 10:44 AM
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I have an old but reliable self-powered Klipsch RSW-12 subwoofer and a Marantz 8805 pre/pro. After running Audyssey, I like some more oomph in the bass. I can achieve this by turning up the volume on the RSW (it's only at about 30% when the levels are matched) or bumping up the sub level on the 8805 (this gives me a maximum increase of +12 db according to the scale). Is one method more desirable than another?
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Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
Doing it in the 8805 will make it easier to get back to the way it is now and not get lost, but other than that it doesnt matter.


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Actually, it does matter.

See this section of mthomas47's awesome Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences:
Where And How To Add Bass
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post #7216 of 7265 Old 12-02-2019, 10:59 AM
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"Official" Audyssey thread Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Actually, it does matter.



See this section of mthomas47's awesome Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences:

Where And How To Add Bass


I have read that one a while ago but the 8805 have very good outputs so unlikly to clip even if hes going nuts with +12 which i assume he probably wont do. That aside the linked guide is very good and should be read before setting up a system.

Edit: removed the edit

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Wondering if someone can assist with mic placement. I've read conflicting information regarding placement of mic where the headrest or top of the seat is higher than ear level. I have an open living room that is combined with the kitchen and the LCR speakers are in a corner (unfortunately, the only spot available due to doors, balcony, etc). My MLP is about 10' away from the center (toward the middle of the room with no walls behind it). The couch headrest is about 5" higher than my ear level. Would it be recommended to

A) raise the mic so that it clears the top (for all positions) or
B) place it at ear level and then raise it > 5" for position 7 & 8 or
C) keep mic at ear level and only raise 2-3" for position 7 & 8 (still keeping below top of headrest)?

It seems that in my room, only slight variation in mic position completely changes the way Audyssey sounds. The distance it measures is very accurate each time. However, it seems that I either get results that sound very dynamic (sound effects, crashes, explosions sound great) but dialogue is hard to understand or the dialogue is great but everything else sounds slightly muted. I don't use DynamicEQ because although bass sounds good, every thing else sounds very compressed (while turned off and Flat make the dialogue sound best).

On my last attempt, I forgot to turn off my bass shaker and it appears to have screwed up the subwoofer adjustment (which is a shame because dialogue other than the bass, everything else sounds great). Thanks!
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post #7218 of 7265 Old 12-03-2019, 01:40 PM
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Hi guys? if I write the calibration results, does anyone help me to understand if I did everything right?
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post #7219 of 7265 Old 12-03-2019, 02:01 PM
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Hi guys? if I write the calibration results, does anyone help me to understand if I did everything right?

Please feel free to share your calibration results. You'll be served here faster than you ever expected!
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post #7220 of 7265 Old 12-03-2019, 02:04 PM
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I own 3 XTZ Cinema M6, 2 XTZ Spirit 2 and a subwoofer 10.17 EDGE.
I did the calibration with the Audyssey XT32 del Denon X3500H.

Before starting the calibration I made the following settings:

1. subwoofer:
- low pass FREQ: 170 hz;
- PHASE: O °;
- GAIN: 12 noon;
- EQ PARAMETERS: OFF;
- LOW PASS: OFF;
- EQ: REF;
- POWER: always on;

2. denon x3500h:
- SUBWOOFER MODE: LFE + MAIN;
- LPF for LTE: 120 hz;
- front, central and surround speakers: SMALL.

3. I connected an RCA cable to the LINE IN "LEFT" input of the subwoofer and to the PRE OUT input (Subwoofer 1) of the Denon.

After setting the parameters mentioned above I started the automatic calibration of Audyssey XT32.
At the end of the automatic calibration I detected the following values:
- audyssey MultiEQXT32: on;
- audyssey Dynamic EQ: on;
- audyssey Dynamic Volume: off.


Speaker crossover:
- front: 40hz
- central: 40hz
- surround: 80hz

GAIN of the subwoofer: 9 am

levels:
- Front L: -1.5db
- Front R: -1.5db
- Central: -1.0db
- Surround R: 0.0db
- Surround L: -0.5db
- subwoofer: -0.5db

Speaker distances:
- Front L: 2.67 meters
- Front R: 2.58 meters
- Central: 2.46 meters
- subwoofer: 7.41 meters
- Surround L: 1.56 meters
- Surround R: 1.41 meters.

I accepted all the automatic calibration settings except for the crossover frequencies: I set all the speakers (excluding the subwoofer) to 80 hz.
Did I do everything correctly?
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post #7221 of 7265 Old 12-03-2019, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senzaparole View Post
I own 3 XTZ Cinema M6, 2 XTZ Spirit 2 and a subwoofer 10.17 EDGE.
I did the calibration with the Audyssey XT32 del Denon X3500H.

Before starting the calibration I made the following settings:

1. subwoofer:
- low pass FREQ: 170 hz;
- PHASE: O °;
- GAIN: 12 noon;
- EQ PARAMETERS: OFF;
- LOW PASS: OFF;
- EQ: REF;
- POWER: always on;

2. denon x3500h:
- SUBWOOFER MODE: LFE + MAIN;
- LPF for LTE: 120 hz;
- front, central and surround speakers: SMALL.

3. I connected an RCA cable to the LINE IN "LEFT" input of the subwoofer and to the PRE OUT input (Subwoofer 1) of the Denon.

After setting the parameters mentioned above I started the automatic calibration of Audyssey XT32.
At the end of the automatic calibration I detected the following values:
- audyssey MultiEQXT32: on;
- audyssey Dynamic EQ: on;
- audyssey Dynamic Volume: off.


Speaker crossover:
- front: 40hz
- central: 40hz
- surround: 80hz

GAIN of the subwoofer: 9 am

levels:
- Front L: -1.5db
- Front R: -1.5db
- Central: -1.0db
- Surround R: 0.0db
- Surround L: -0.5db
- subwoofer: -0.5db

Speaker distances:
- Front L: 2.67 meters
- Front R: 2.58 meters
- Central: 2.46 meters
- subwoofer: 7.41 meters
- Surround L: 1.56 meters
- Surround R: 1.41 meters.

I accepted all the automatic calibration settings except for the crossover frequencies: I set all the speakers (excluding the subwoofer) to 80 hz.
Did I do everything correctly?

To me it look absolutely OK for all speakers.

As regard the sub, the -0.5 dB seems a tad bit too high. General consensus is to have the sub level somewhere in the mid negatives, but not lower than -11 dB.

For best results you may rerun Audyssey calibration with the sub GAIN set to "noon" (12 am). That will surely result in a lower level trim. The importance of this setting is that you will be able to boost a couple of dBs on the sub to taste once you feel the need to have a little more extra bass (we all have that particular feeling!) and won't need to worry about saturation in the subwoofer chain causing distortion.

Other members will surely chime-in with their expert advice, so please stay tuned for the next message.

Wish you good luck with your setup.

P.s.: You've got a very nice system with the Denon X3500H and your speaker choice! XT32 rocks!

Last edited by mogorf; 12-03-2019 at 02:43 PM.
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post #7222 of 7265 Old 12-03-2019, 11:35 PM
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thanks.

I read that maybe it's better to set the subwoofer mode to LFE instead of LFE + MAIN because all the speakers are set to SMALL.
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post #7223 of 7265 Old 12-04-2019, 02:18 PM
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Just a quick question guys if I may. I have recently added sound absorption to my walls in my dedicated home theatre and was wondering if I need to re run audyssey pro or just keep my old settings. The sound absorption consists of the whole room except ceilings.Thankyou.
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post #7224 of 7265 Old 12-04-2019, 02:22 PM
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Just a quick question guys if I may. I have recently added sound absorption to my walls in my dedicated home theatre and was wondering if I need to re run audyssey pro or just keep my old settings. The sound absorption consists of the whole room except ceilings.Thankyou.


Re run, always re run when changing something significant and often when not so significant.


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post #7225 of 7265 Old 12-04-2019, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
To me it look absolutely OK for all speakers.

As regard the sub, the -0.5 dB seems a tad bit too high. General consensus is to have the sub level somewhere in the mid negatives, but not lower than -11 dB.

For best results you may rerun Audyssey calibration with the sub GAIN set to "noon" (12 am). That will surely result in a lower level trim. The importance of this setting is that you will be able to boost a couple of dBs on the sub to taste once you feel the need to have a little more extra bass (we all have that particular feeling!) and won't need to worry about saturation in the subwoofer chain causing distortion.

Other members will surely chime-in with their expert advice, so please stay tuned for the next message.

Wish you good luck with your setup.

P.s.: You've got a very nice system with the Denon X3500H and your speaker choice! XT32 rocks!
Hi thanks for the appreciation.

Are you sure the subwoofer level is too high? I had the subwoofer level at -3db but Xtz wrote to me that it is preferable that the subwoofer has a level between 0 and + 3db. Who's right?

I write to you the advice of Xtz:


If it has set it to negative value, ie. -6 dB or similar, the signal to the subwoofer is probably too weak to trigger it. Then you can lower the gain on the bit subwoofer, run the calibration again. Repeat lowering the gain until the value for the subwoofer output level is 0 dB or even up to +3 dB. This way, the receiver will be able to react.

Coming to the subwoofer is just a multiplier for the signal coming in. I know if you have lower gain on the subwoofer, but stronger signal from the subwoofer. I know you don't lose any power by lowering the gain, as long as you adjust the low level signal coming from the receiver.
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post #7226 of 7265 Old 12-04-2019, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
Re run, always re run when changing something significant and often when not so significant.


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Thanks mate, will rerun and see what comes of it.
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post #7227 of 7265 Old 12-04-2019, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by senzaparole View Post
Hi thanks for the appreciation.

Are you sure the subwoofer level is too high? I had the subwoofer level at -3db but Xtz wrote to me that it is preferable that the subwoofer has a level between 0 and + 3db. Who's right?

I write to you the advice of Xtz:


If it has set it to negative value, ie. -6 dB or similar, the signal to the subwoofer is probably too weak to trigger it. Then you can lower the gain on the bit subwoofer, run the calibration again. Repeat lowering the gain until the value for the subwoofer output level is 0 dB or even up to +3 dB. This way, the receiver will be able to react.

Coming to the subwoofer is just a multiplier for the signal coming in. I know if you have lower gain on the subwoofer, but stronger signal from the subwoofer. I know you don't lose any power by lowering the gain, as long as you adjust the low level signal coming from the receiver.

OK, I get it from Xtz. Actually they are taking about subs that have an "auto wake up" feature. This means the sub will stay off below a certain level and kick-in (auto-turn-on) when the input level reaches that triggering point. My Dali sub has the same, but it can be disabled with an on/off switch on the rear side of the sub.

I don't want my sub to turn off when Master Volume is set so low that the sub if defeated, so I keep that feature out of site, my sub always stays "awake" even at the lowest MV setting, like for example when I have guests and I play a little background music for my friends at say -50 dB and the bass still remains intact!

Hope this helps!
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post #7228 of 7265 Old 12-04-2019, 03:55 PM
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Hi All,

I have a question that have been wondering why this occurs and if it is correct.

When I run auto eq Audyssey sets 20hz 6db 30hz 5db 40hz 4dp plus. The room is not near dead and this occurs with or without treatments. In rew the room measures relatively flat from 300hz.

Any ideas why and is this correct? I am using Kef q900, marantz av7702mk2 and monolith 7x amp.
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post #7229 of 7265 Old 12-05-2019, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by senzaparole View Post
thanks.

I read that maybe it's better to set the subwoofer mode to LFE instead of LFE + MAIN because all the speakers are set to SMALL.
When speakers are set to Small, there is literally no difference between LFE and LFE+MAIN. LFE+MAIN only takes effect if the FL/FR speakers are set to Large.
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post #7230 of 7265 Old 12-05-2019, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jamesyates View Post
Hi All,

I have a question that have been wondering why this occurs and if it is correct.

When I run auto eq Audyssey sets 20hz 6db 30hz 5db 40hz 4dp plus. The room is not near dead and this occurs with or without treatments. In rew the room measures relatively flat from 300hz.

Any ideas why and is this correct? I am using Kef q900, marantz av7702mk2 and monolith 7x amp.
Can you show us your measurements with/without Audyssey?
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