"Official" Audyssey thread Part II - Page 278 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 45676Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #8311 of 8548 Old 05-01-2020, 01:45 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 466
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Liked: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by the7mcs View Post
Hey guys I have a question regarding Audyssey


So when one does the automatic audyssey calibration it sets the levels of each speaker based on its measurements and this can be seen when one presses the setup button on remote and goes to goes to Audio -> Speaker -> Manual Adjust-> Levels-> Test Tone

Now there's another way to also adjust speaker levels by pressing on the option button on remote control and then looking at speakerlevels

should these mirror what audyssey set or should these be left at 0db
Hey Buddy,

The speaker levels on the option button on remote control are for adjusting levels on the input you are on and does not change the levels in Audio -> Speaker -> Manual Adjust-> Levels-> Test Tone. Nor should either one match each other.

So you could use this for instance if the "Cable box" has a low volume on the center channel you can add a few db's without affecting the global settings, this will be saved every time you use this input

It's pretty handy, I have used it to turn down all the way my surrounds and heights leaving me with a 3.2 setup. I use this for Pc work where the surrounds can be distracting at times when watching you-tube

All the Best

Jim
Jimmy2Shoes is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #8312 of 8548 Old 05-01-2020, 04:15 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 384
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Hi Guys, audyssey most of the time get the distance from my FR wrong by around 10 cm, does it matter when i take the first measurement to have the mic not as close as my head would be resting on the back of the sofa?
My sofa has a high back.



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Toto84 is offline  
post #8313 of 8548 Old 05-01-2020, 05:03 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 466
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Liked: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Hi Guys, audyssey most of the time get the distance from my FR wrong by around 10 cm, does it matter when i take the first measurement to have the mic not as close as my head would be resting on the back of the sofa?
My sofa has a high back.



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Hey Buddy,

Just have a quick read on Mike's guide for Mic Placement, lots of useful information here.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...rences.html#IB
I-B: Room EQ and Calibration Techniques

Remember distance is time delay, this is how Audyssey and all other room EQ calculates the speaker distances, So if Audyssey is given a different distance for a speaker it can be caused by reflective surfaces, obstructions to the speaker, placement of the mic and so on. If your sofa has a high back make sure to put a not reflective material like a blanket over it.

All the best

Jim
Jimmy2Shoes is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #8314 of 8548 Old 05-01-2020, 05:34 AM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,856
Mentioned: 430 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6023 Post(s)
Liked: 12362
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStorm View Post
Hey guys,

Hopefully this is a simple question. I have read mixed reviews on it.

I have 2 home theater chairs side by side so 2 MLPs. Do I need to calibrate Audyssey #1 mic position in between them (there is a center armrest in the middle that correlates to the center of the center speaker/tv) OR do I just need to pick 1 of the 2 chairs and use it as my MLP for #1 ?

If we choose one chair for the MLP could we choose the middle armrest for #2 mic position or should we always choose the actual seat for these listening positions and not in between them?

Thanks for any help.

Hi,

I think that the reason you have read mixed reviews on this question is because there really isn't a single right answer to it. In general, Audyssey seems to do a better job of correcting the frequency response if we measure a smaller listening area. So, most people seem to get better results when they take measurements for a small area around a single listening position. That method actually works best in my room. I get good EQ at more than one listening position that way. Other people may also get good results when they measure larger listening areas. I have also seen that.

How much of that is differences in the room, and how much of it is differences in what we hear, or in listener preference, are questions that don't seem to have an answer. We all just have to experiment to find the mic pattern, and the resulting calibration, that sounds best to us. If you want to try measuring for just a single listening position, and listen to find out how you like it, there is a recommended mic pattern in Section I-B of the Guide linked below.

Afterwards, if you want to try putting your first mic position directly between the two seats, you could use a similar pattern, or a bit wider one, from a starting point in that center location. The area between the two seats would now become the MLP. Remember though, it's not just the EQ filters that are going to be set, based on mic position 1, and based on the overall size of the mic pattern. The speaker trims and distances are also going to be set based on mic position 1.

What that means is that if you choose the left seat as the MLP (mic 1) the speakers will be in the best acoustic balance (all speakers equally loud, with all sounds arriving at the same time) at that specific point in space. If you select the right seat as the MLP, the same thing will happen at that specific point in space.

But, if you pick the area between the two chairs for the first mic position, that will be the MLP, and neither the left chair nor the right chair will have perfect acoustic balance with respect to sounds arriving at either seat at exactly the same sound level. If you are occupying the left seat, you may notice that the left speakers sound louder, and vice versa for the right seat.

That is one reason why this has to be a YMMV question, that can only be resolved through experimentation. Not everyone will notice the sort of thing that I have described equally, and not everyone will care equally if he or she does notice. The final decision as to where to begin the calibration may be a compromise based on precise equality, or it may be decided on the basis of who notices the most, and/or who cares the most about sound quality.

This is a question that you will have to experiment with for yourself, and decide for yourself.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #8315 of 8548 Old 05-01-2020, 09:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
iStorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,232
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 990 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStorm View Post
Hey guys,

Hopefully this is a simple question. I have read mixed reviews on it.

I have 2 home theater chairs side by side so 2 MLPs. Do I need to calibrate Audyssey #1 mic position in between them (there is a center armrest in the middle that correlates to the center of the center speaker/tv) OR do I just need to pick 1 of the 2 chairs and use it as my MLP for #1 ?

If we choose one chair for the MLP could we choose the middle armrest for #2 mic position or should we always choose the actual seat for these listening positions and not in between them?

Thanks for any help.

Hi,

I think that the reason you have read mixed reviews on this question is because there really isn't a single right answer to it. In general, Audyssey seems to do a better job of correcting the frequency response if we measure a smaller listening area. So, most people seem to get better results when they take measurements for a small area around a single listening position. That method actually works best in my room. I get good EQ at more than one listening position that way. Other people may also get good results when they measure larger listening areas. I have also seen that.

How much of that is differences in the room, and how much of it is differences in what we hear, or in listener preference, are questions that don't seem to have an answer. We all just have to experiment to find the mic pattern, and the resulting calibration, that sounds best to us. If you want to try measuring for just a single listening position, and listen to find out how you like it, there is a recommended mic pattern in Section I-B of the Guide linked below.

Afterwards, if you want to try putting your first mic position directly between the two seats, you could use a similar pattern, or a bit wider one, from a starting point in that center location. The area between the two seats would now become the MLP. Remember though, it's not just the EQ filters that are going to be set, based on mic position 1, and based on the overall size of the mic pattern. The speaker trims and distances are also going to be set based on mic position 1.

What that means is that if you choose the left seat as the MLP (mic 1) the speakers will be in the best acoustic balance (all speakers equally loud, with all sounds arriving at the same time) at that specific point in space. If you select the right seat as the MLP, the same thing will happen at that specific point in space.

But, if you pick the area between the two chairs for the first mic position, that will be the MLP, and neither the left chair nor the right chair will have perfect acoustic balance with respect to sounds arriving at either seat at exactly the same sound level. If you are occupying the left seat, you may notice that the left speakers sound louder, and vice versa for the right seat.

That is one reason why this has to be a YMMV question, that can only be resolved through experimentation. Not everyone will notice the sort of thing that I have described equally, and not everyone will care equally if he or she does notice. The final decision as to where to begin the calibration may be a compromise based on precise equality, or it may be decided on the basis of who notices the most, and/or who cares the most about sound quality.

This is a question that you will have to experiment with for yourself, and decide for yourself. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Regards,
Mike
Hey again Mike! Good to see you still here providing informative help! You helped us tremendously in the past and we use your calibration technique/diagram!

We tried calibrating it to one of the two chairs and the right chair MLP sounds great, but there is a bigggggg difference in the left chair where my fiance sits. I think the best setup for us is going to be recalibrate to the center area directly in between both chairs. We may not have a sweet spot like right now but the equal distribution of the sound is better between both chairs this way. We can also take specific mic measurements in both chairs this way and still keep everything in a neat circle. We almost always watch movies together so it makes more sense to calibrate mic position 1 in between our 2 seats which isn't too far off from our chairs since it is where the arm rest/arm rest storage is. We did something similar in the basement where we have a row of 4 chairs and made the MLP in the center at the arm rest in between.

At the end of the day, it is all about what our ears hear. I just didnt want to do something completely wrong since everything we see is around the MLP and that's almost always a chair/couch seat. There is pretty much no information online about what to do for 2 home theater chairs or 4 home theater chairs in a row like we have in the basement. With 2 and 4 chairs, no chair is directly in the center and they are all off axis in relation to the center channel. I think doing the mic calibration 1 from the center rest which is in line with the center is a good way to go. Hope this makes sense.
mthomas47 likes this.
iStorm is online now  
post #8316 of 8548 Old 05-01-2020, 10:48 AM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,856
Mentioned: 430 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6023 Post(s)
Liked: 12362
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStorm View Post
Hey again Mike! Good to see you still here providing informative help! You helped us tremendously in the past and we use your calibration technique/diagram!

We tried calibrating it to one of the two chairs and the right chair MLP sounds great, but there is a bigggggg difference in the left chair where my fiance sits. I think the best setup for us is going to be recalibrate to the center area directly in between both chairs. We may not have a sweet spot like right now but the equal distribution of the sound is better between both chairs this way. We can also take specific mic measurements in both chairs this way and still keep everything in a neat circle. We almost always watch movies together so it makes more sense to calibrate mic position 1 in between our 2 seats which isn't too far off from our chairs since it is where the arm rest/arm rest storage is. We did something similar in the basement where we have a row of 4 chairs and made the MLP in the center at the arm rest in between.

At the end of the day, it is all about what our ears hear. I just didnt want to do something completely wrong since everything we see is around the MLP and that's almost always a chair/couch seat. There is pretty much no information online about what to do for 2 home theater chairs or 4 home theater chairs in a row like we have in the basement. With 2 and 4 chairs, no chair is directly in the center and they are all off axis in relation to the center channel. I think doing the mic calibration 1 from the center rest which is in line with the center is a good way to go. Hope this makes sense.

I remember, and I'm glad that I was able to help! What you are saying makes perfect sense to me, especially since you have already tried it both ways. I think that most people would probably do it the same way that you intend to, if there were that much difference between the two seats.

I might still experiment a little bit with the width of the mic pattern, though. Even using the armrest as the MLP, you might not want to extend out too far to the sides. I think you will just have to try a couple of different mic patterns and see what happens. More experimentation!

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #8317 of 8548 Old 05-01-2020, 08:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
iStorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,232
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 990 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStorm View Post
Hey again Mike! Good to see you still here providing informative help! You helped us tremendously in the past and we use your calibration technique/diagram!

We tried calibrating it to one of the two chairs and the right chair MLP sounds great, but there is a bigggggg difference in the left chair where my fiance sits. I think the best setup for us is going to be recalibrate to the center area directly in between both chairs. We may not have a sweet spot like right now but the equal distribution of the sound is better between both chairs this way. We can also take specific mic measurements in both chairs this way and still keep everything in a neat circle. We almost always watch movies together so it makes more sense to calibrate mic position 1 in between our 2 seats which isn't too far off from our chairs since it is where the arm rest/arm rest storage is. We did something similar in the basement where we have a row of 4 chairs and made the MLP in the center at the arm rest in between.

At the end of the day, it is all about what our ears hear. I just didnt want to do something completely wrong since everything we see is around the MLP and that's almost always a chair/couch seat. There is pretty much no information online about what to do for 2 home theater chairs or 4 home theater chairs in a row like we have in the basement. With 2 and 4 chairs, no chair is directly in the center and they are all off axis in relation to the center channel. I think doing the mic calibration 1 from the center rest which is in line with the center is a good way to go. Hope this makes sense.

I remember, and I'm glad that I was able to help! What you are saying makes perfect sense to me, especially since you have already tried it both ways. I think that most people would probably do it the same way that you intend to, if there were that much difference between the two seats.

I might still experiment a little bit with the width of the mic pattern, though. Even using the armrest as the MLP, you might not want to extend out too far to the sides. I think you will just have to try a couple of different mic patterns and see what happens. More experimentation! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/IMG][IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Regards,
Mike
We are definitely going to experiment more since this is a fairly new room for us. I am going back and reading your full write up on the other thread. Is it advisable to still make the center channel speaker hang over the entertainment center? Our center channel is sitting on the very top shelf and isn't enclosed so I figured just having it sit flush against the edge would be fine? I know if it were enclosed inside a cabinet or shelf then it would be better to let it hang off a bit (1 inch or so) but I'm not sure if we need it to hang off on top of the entertainment center where a TV stand would normally sit (we have our TV wall mounted). Thanks again
iStorm is online now  
post #8318 of 8548 Old 05-02-2020, 12:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CBdicX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hello from Holland !
Posts: 3,424
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1764 Post(s)
Liked: 431
Hello, do you "bump" the surround setting (Surround - Surround Back - Height) to say +2 / 3dB, or do you let it like Audyssey sets it ?
CBdicX is offline  
post #8319 of 8548 Old 05-02-2020, 09:41 AM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,856
Mentioned: 430 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6023 Post(s)
Liked: 12362
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStorm View Post
We are definitely going to experiment more since this is a fairly new room for us. I am going back and reading your full write up on the other thread. Is it advisable to still make the center channel speaker hang over the entertainment center? Our center channel is sitting on the very top shelf and isn't enclosed so I figured just having it sit flush against the edge would be fine? I know if it were enclosed inside a cabinet or shelf then it would be better to let it hang off a bit (1 inch or so) but I'm not sure if we need it to hang off on top of the entertainment center where a TV stand would normally sit (we have our TV wall mounted). Thanks again

You are very welcome! I don't think that we have to be too OCD about this sort of thing. But, if there isn't any special reason not to do it, I would still let the leading edge of the center channel extend slightly beyond the surface it sits on. The objective is to get the cones of the tweeter and mid-range drivers to extend a little beyond whatever surface they sit on, in order to avoid early reflections from that surface. The speaker grille normally extends a little beyond the driver cones, so overlapping the speaker stand/shelf, by about an inch, is still a good idea.

If the center channel is tilted-up a little (with a shim) in order to point right at ear level, it isn't very easy to tell whether the speaker extends out beyond the stand or cabinet by a little bit. I doubt that you would even notice the fact that it doesn't line-up exactly with the edge of the cabinet.

Regards,
Mike
garygarrison likes this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 05-02-2020 at 09:45 AM.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #8320 of 8548 Old 05-02-2020, 10:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lax01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 4,864
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 769 Post(s)
Liked: 555
Can anyone suggest a microphone stand for Audyssey mic from Parts Express? https://www.amazon.com/s?k=microphon...ref=nb_sb_noss

I need the stand and the mount right?

Josh
lax01 is online now  
post #8321 of 8548 Old 05-02-2020, 11:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Matt2026's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 8,079
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1137 Post(s)
Liked: 30805
Quote:
Originally Posted by lax01 View Post
Can anyone suggest a microphone stand for Audyssey mic from Parts Express? https://www.amazon.com/s?k=microphon...ref=nb_sb_noss

I need the stand and the mount right?
Something like these...

https://www.amazon.com/Stage-MS7701B...D58/ref=sr_1_2

https://www.amazon.com/CM01-Camera-D...C4I/ref=sr_1_1
lax01 likes this.
Matt2026 is online now  
post #8322 of 8548 Old 05-02-2020, 03:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lax01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 4,864
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 769 Post(s)
Liked: 555
Awesome - thanks
Matt2026 likes this.

Josh
lax01 is online now  
post #8323 of 8548 Old 05-03-2020, 01:45 AM
Member
 
Lyndon11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Audyssey cable extension.

Hi Folks


I'm very much a novice, so please bare with me. I am looking at purchasing either a Denon or Marantz unit. Yet to decide on model. How long is the standard calibration cable that comes with the mic? I have read in the thread that it can be extended by up to 7.5M. The links for the extension cable are old and no longer work. Is anyone able to provide a working link for where I could purchase one?

My main seating position is about 13M from my current old AVR. I guess I may need a few extra metres on top of that to move the mic around to the spots I'm meant to. I have never calibrated the existing unit as it hasn't been used for surround. I see there is a Pro unit with longer cables but it is expensive and would be way out of my knowledge depth.



Thanks for your help.


Regards


Lyndon
Lyndon11 is offline  
post #8324 of 8548 Old 05-03-2020, 02:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
drh3b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 4,564
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2455 Post(s)
Liked: 5465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndon11 View Post
Hi Folks


I'm very much a novice, so please bare with me. I am looking at purchasing either a Denon or Marantz unit. Yet to decide on model. How long is the standard calibration cable that comes with the mic? I have read in the thread that it can be extended by up to 7.5M. The links for the extension cable are old and no longer work. Is anyone able to provide a working link for where I could purchase one?

My main seating position is about 13M from my current old AVR. I guess I may need a few extra metres on top of that to move the mic around to the spots I'm meant to. I have never calibrated the existing unit as it hasn't been used for surround. I see there is a Pro unit with longer cables but it is expensive and would be way out of my knowledge depth.



Thanks for your help.


Regards


Lyndon
This should work. It comes in various lengths, and the first review I read for it was for exactly your situation.

TNP 3.5mm Mono Extension

https://smile.amazon.com/TNP-3-5mm-M...60&sr=8-3&th=1

My Stuff.
Spoiler!
drh3b is offline  
post #8325 of 8548 Old 05-03-2020, 05:43 AM
Advanced Member
 
rosstg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 561
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 333 Post(s)
Liked: 253
One thing I don’t understand is why it’s best to put a blanket down to avoid reflections. I have a Teak coffee table between my large sectional with ottomans and tv stand. I’ve been putting a blanket over it when I calibrate as others suggested but doesn’t it make more sense not to cover? Shouldn’t the room be EQ’d as is to compensate?
rosstg is offline  
post #8326 of 8548 Old 05-03-2020, 06:50 AM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,856
Mentioned: 430 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6023 Post(s)
Liked: 12362
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosstg View Post
One thing I don’t understand is why it’s best to put a blanket down to avoid reflections. I have a Teak coffee table between my large sectional with ottomans and tv stand. I’ve been putting a blanket over it when I calibrate as others suggested but doesn’t it make more sense not to cover? Shouldn’t the room be EQ’d as is to compensate?

Hi,

I think this is another one of those pesky YMMV questions. It has always made sense to me to put a temporary blanket over a chair back, due to proximity to the Audyssey microphone, which doesn't "hear" sounds in the same way that we do. But, that is based entirely on close proximity to the measurement microphone. High-frequency sound waves, bouncing into the omnidirectional Audyssey mic, from close range, can cause Audyssey to try to overcorrect those frequencies. And, that can potentially create a harsher or more shrill sound.

Treating first reflection points, between the speakers and the listening position can also make sense to me, as the smooth surface of a coffee table can reflect higher frequency sounds toward our ears, causing distortion. Putting some kind of throw, or scattering some magazines, on the table can help to absorb or disperse those early reflections. But, those are more-or-less permanent solutions, intended to improve our overall sound quality, whether we are using Audyssey or not.

Putting a blanket on a coffee table, only during calibration, and then removing it afterward, could potentially help to prevent Audyssey from overreacting to the early reflections. (We don't want Audyssey trying to correct too much for reflected sounds, if we can help it.) But, it won't do anything to prevent us from hearing those early reflections ourselves, once we take the blanket away. So, it could make theoretical sense, strictly from the standpoint of the Audyssey calibration, but it may or may not make an audible improvement in the actual post-Audyssey sound that we hear.

I don't, at the moment, see where the temporary blanket would do any real harm. I'm not sure of that, but I can't immediately see where it would. But, I think that this issue is one that probably has to be settled on a case-by-case basis. If I were really curious about this question, I would try calibrating with the blanket, and listen for a while, and then try calibrating without the blanket, and listen for a while. (Try hard to keep the mic positions as close to exactly the same as you can.) I'm not convinced that you would be able to hear any real difference between the two calibrations, but if you did, you would just pick the one you like better.

My personal recommendation would be to put something on the table to absorb or diffuse higher frequencies, anyway, and keep it there all the time. I believe that may make a positive difference in your overall sound quality.

Regards,
Mike
garygarrison likes this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 05-03-2020 at 07:01 AM.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #8327 of 8548 Old 05-03-2020, 07:10 AM
Advanced Member
 
rosstg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 561
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 333 Post(s)
Liked: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I think this is another one of those pesky YMMV questions. It has always made sense to me to put a temporary blanket over a chair back, due to proximity to the Audyssey microphone, which doesn't "hear" sounds in the same way that we do. But, that is based entirely on close proximity to the measurement microphone. High-frequency sound waves, bouncing into the omnidirectional Audyssey mic, from close range, can cause Audyssey to try to overcorrect those frequencies. And, that can potentially create a harsher or more shrill sound.

Treating first reflection points, between the speakers and the listening position can also make sense to me, as the smooth surface of a coffee table can reflect higher frequency sounds toward our ears, causing distortion. Putting some kind of throw, or scattering some magazines, on the table can help to absorb or disperse those early reflections. But, those are more-or-less permanent solutions, intended to improve our overall sound quality, whether we are using Audyssey or not.

Putting a blanket on a coffee table, only during calibration, and then removing it afterward, could potentially help to prevent Audyssey from overreacting to the early reflections. (We don't want Audyssey trying to correct too much for reflected sounds, if we can help it.) But, it won't do anything to prevent us from hearing those early reflections ourselves, once we take the blanket away. So, it could make theoretical sense, strictly from the standpoint of the Audyssey calibration, but it may or may not make an audible improvement in the actual post-Audyssey sound that we hear.

I don't, at the moment, see where the temporary blanket would do any real harm. I'm not sure of that, but I can't immediately see where it would. But, I think that this issue is one that probably has to be settled on a case-by-case basis. If I were really curious about this question, I would try calibrating with the blanket, and listen for a while, and then try calibrating without the blanket, and listen for a while. (Try hard to keep the mic positions as close to exactly the same as you can.) I'm not convinced that you would be able to hear any real difference between the two calibrations, but if you did, you would just pick the one you like better.

My personal recommendation would be to put something on the table to absorb or diffuse higher frequencies, anyway, and keep it there all the time. I believe that may make a positive difference in your overall sound quality.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks Mike.

I realized I didn’t cover the table last time I calibrated. I’m receiving new subwoofers Tuesday which means I will be calibrating again, I’ll make sure to cover the table.

I know when I limit FR correction it’s definitely brighter. As I get older (39) I realize I prefer less treble and more bass these days.
mthomas47 and garygarrison like this.
rosstg is offline  
post #8328 of 8548 Old 05-03-2020, 07:05 PM
Member
 
Lyndon11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
This should work. It comes in various lengths, and the first review I read for it was for exactly your situation.

TNP 3.5mm Mono Extension

https://smile.amazon.com/TNP-3-5mm-M...60&sr=8-3&th=1

Thanks for the link. Can anyone advise of the standard length correction cable I'd be connecting this one to so as I can calculate the whole length.
Thanks
Lyndon
Lyndon11 is offline  
post #8329 of 8548 Old 05-04-2020, 06:22 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 8
Audyssey and ARC - in which order ?

Hi,


I have a Denon X3600H which has Audyssey multeq xt32. I also have a Paradigm subwoofer which supports ARC (anthem room correction). Note that the rest of my speakers don't support ARC.



Now I wondering, how I must set this up.



Someone told me I should do this :


  • Enable and run ARC calibration for the subwoofer
  • Disable ARC on the sub
  • Run Audyssey on the Denon
  • Re-enable ARC on the sub
I'm still a noob and I have no idea if that makes sense. T



Any advice ?
Dentifrice is offline  
post #8330 of 8548 Old 05-04-2020, 09:50 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Wheaton Illinois
Posts: 219
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Liked: 101
* I am not a home theater person, never had it and never wanted, never educated myself on it. When it came time to create an outdoor movie situation I decided it would be 7.1 or bust.

I have a tendency to use the right tools the wrong way for the right reasons; my use of Audyssey.

Last year my wife and I setup a budget outdoor theater.
All the speakers were purchased used off Facebook: Jamo 8A2 for Left/Right/Center, KLH C180B for Side & Rear surround, and a Dayton Audio 10" driver I had laying around for a sub.
The surround was provided by a Marantz SR8400 receiver I bought for $70 at an estate sale and the sub was powered by a cheap plate amp.
Benq MEH530 as the projector with a 10' 16:9 $30 amazon screen supported by a photographers background stands I have.
Blu-Ray is some Sony something that is unimportant.

I know most will say the sub is not sufficient; if placed incorrectly you are correct. In our case I placed it within 2' of the listening position, taking advantage of the inverse square law.
We get a lot of bass but the neighbors get none.

Long story short - WE LOVED IT!

Now for the Audyssey Part.
Last year was great but it involved setting up the receiver, projector, screen, sub, blu-ray player each night we wanted to use it. Not horrible but 20 minutes to setup and 20 to take down. This year its going to be different; all equipment minus blu-ray and projector and screen are permanent install.

Bought Denon AVR-x1600H to run everything.
The Marantz is now powering the subwoofer with crossover handled via AVR-X1600.

The primary reason I bought the AVR-X1600 was for "Dynamic EQ" and "Dynamic Volume" so our movies will not disturb the neighbors due to massive dynamics; last year I was endlessly reaching for the volume control from scene to scene. What I did not know is those are part of Audyssey.

I tried to calibrate the system the normal way - microphone pointing toward the ceiling except, no ceiling. I would get errors like no speaker found, etc. I am sure these errors are due to birds and lawnmowers in the area, and no CEILING!
I then mounted the microphone horizontally on a swivel and pointed it toward each speaker under test. This worked much better. I stopped after measurement 5 or 6, when it gave me the option to complete.

I know Audyssey was not designed for this, nor did I know I would have to use it for these desired features, but the results were enlightening.
- Crossover points were higher than I would have set.
- Speaker distances were much different than I would have anticipated.
- Speaker levels were much better than I could have done by ear.
- subwoofer blended perfectly.

I have yet to watch a movie with these settings but listened to a few songs from Tidal; imaging is much better than I could have imagined, bass integration is perfect, I am able to hear/feel the 28hz bassline in Emerald Hooves by Tipper without any boom. The upright bass in Tord Gustavsen Trio - The Other Side was perfect. Yello's Planet Dada (Flamboyant Mix) was flipping fantastic!

Ultimately, Audyssey is not designed for use outdoor but, if you can get it to work by breaking a couple rules (changing mic orientation, in my case) it is well worth the effort.
iH8usrnames is offline  
post #8331 of 8548 Old 05-04-2020, 10:01 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 28,348
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2502 Post(s)
Liked: 1635
Its not really the other speakers that support Anthem Room Correction, its the AVR.

Does your subwoofer come with an ARC microphone and kit? How do you calibrate w/o an Anthem AVR? Maybe you just need a laptop and the Genesis software?

I bought a used Anthem MRX-710 a couple months back but had to order the Anthem Room Correction Kit separately. It all works great together.

Lastly does ARC do a better job with subs than the SubEQ HT on the x3600?

Afro GT

Last edited by afrogt; 05-04-2020 at 10:12 AM.
afrogt is online now  
post #8332 of 8548 Old 05-04-2020, 10:18 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
Its not really the other speakers that support Anthem Room Correction, its the AVR.

Does your subwoofer come with an ARC microphone and kit? How do you calibrate w/o an Anthem AVR? Maybe you just need a laptop and the Genesis software?

I bought a used Anthem MRX-710 a couple months back but had to order the Anthem Room Correction Kit separately. It all works great together.

Lastly does ARC do a better job with subs than the SubEQ HT on the x3600?



ARC with the sub is done with a microphone and a mobile app :
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/anthem...e/id1109437485




For you last question, I have no idea.... It's my first HT setup and I installed it two days ago so I'm still learning.
Dentifrice is offline  
post #8333 of 8548 Old 05-04-2020, 10:20 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
eljaycanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 10,535
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2169 Post(s)
Liked: 3158
AFAIK: Find the best spot in the room for the sub. Put the sub there, then run ARC to optimize it. Then run Audyssey to calibrate your entire set-up.
Dentifrice likes this.
eljaycanuck is offline  
post #8334 of 8548 Old 05-04-2020, 07:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
pwiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Hello, do you "bump" the surround setting (Surround - Surround Back - Height) to say +2 / 3dB, or do you let it like Audyssey sets it ?
The only recommendation I have heard to bump up settings is for the Dolby Atmos front module speakers. I have dedicated top middle speakers now but had modules previously. I am currently using DEQ which boosts the surrounds so I have lowered my surrounds by 2 dB. I checked the levels with a Spears and Munsil audio Calibration disc to balance the levels with my DEQ offset setting applied.

If you don’t have modules or use DEQ I would keep them the same or at least verify with a test disc not the test tones in your receiver. Most of the time Audyssey is with a half decibel in my experience.
CBdicX likes this.
pwiss is offline  
post #8335 of 8548 Old 05-05-2020, 01:50 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Audyssey Phase correction clarification

Hi,

Both before and after running Audyssey for a 2.1 setup (phase set to zero as instructed, subwoofer pointing in the same direction as the mains), I noticed the bass to be significantly lacking around the crossover frequency of 80hz. When I altered the crossover to 100hz, the 80hz region that was previously missing seemed to reappear. I'm assuming this might be because the mains/sub were out of phase at the crossover.

I plan on running REW in the near future, but for now was hoping to see if I could get some improvement by either:
A) adjusting the phase of the subwoofer while running an 80hz sine wave so that it provides the highest SPL or
B) doing the subwoofer distance tweak and seeing which distance runs the highest SPL, again with an 80hz sine wave

My questions are:
1) Which of these two methods should I use, or both?
2) would I use these method(s) before or after I run audyssey? If I do it before will audyssey potentially undo my adjustments? If i do it after will I be messing up audyssey's configuration?

Denon 2500h if it matters

Thanks so much
bbecker4 is offline  
post #8336 of 8548 Old 05-05-2020, 05:48 AM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,856
Mentioned: 430 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6023 Post(s)
Liked: 12362
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbecker4 View Post
Hi,

Both before and after running Audyssey for a 2.1 setup (phase set to zero as instructed, subwoofer pointing in the same direction as the mains), I noticed the bass to be significantly lacking around the crossover frequency of 80hz. When I altered the crossover to 100hz, the 80hz region that was previously missing seemed to reappear. I'm assuming this might be because the mains/sub were out of phase at the crossover.

I plan on running REW in the near future, but for now was hoping to see if I could get some improvement by either:
A) adjusting the phase of the subwoofer while running an 80hz sine wave so that it provides the highest SPL or
B) doing the subwoofer distance tweak and seeing which distance runs the highest SPL, again with an 80hz sine wave

My questions are:
1) Which of these two methods should I use, or both?
2) would I use these method(s) before or after I run audyssey? If I do it before will audyssey potentially undo my adjustments? If i do it after will I be messing up audyssey's configuration?

Denon 2500h if it matters

Thanks so much

Hi,

I think you already have a good handle on the nature of the problem: phase-cancellation between your front speakers and your subwoofer. As you noted, there are two potential ways to address the issue. Whichever of the two methods you choose should be used after you run your Audyssey calibration. It won't affect the calibration in a negative way.

It would probably be easier to adjust the distance setting on the subwoofer, with your AVR remote, while listening to or measuring the volume of the 80Hz sine wave at your MLP. I would adjust the distance in 1' increments, and the distance adjustment should probably not exceed 7'. (That would represent roughly one-half wavelength at 80Hz, or a phase change of 180 degrees.)

You could always try both methods, and see which one seems to work better, but it will be much easier to determine that once you have REW.

Regards,
Mike
bbecker4 likes this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #8337 of 8548 Old 05-05-2020, 05:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
pbarach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 3,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 666 Post(s)
Liked: 439
We know that Audyssey takes high-resolution files (say, 96k or higher) and downsamples them to 48k before applying corrections.


So what is Audyssey doing with analog signals, e.g., from an external DAC? Are they getting converted to digital at some resolution before Audyssey correction is applied, or does the correction take place in the analog domain?


OK, this is probably a beginner's question, but I don't recall seeing this addressed before.

Denon x4400h, Samsung LED 1080p TV, B&W 704 mains, two M&K subwoofers, Oppo 103, Roku 2, Darbeevision, etc.
Headphone system: Focal Clear, Sennheiser HD600, AKG K702, Hifiman HE-400i, Marantz HD-DAC1, Denon DVD-3910
pbarach is offline  
post #8338 of 8548 Old 05-05-2020, 09:56 AM
Advanced Member
 
tbaucom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 738
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
We know that Audyssey takes high-resolution files (say, 96k or higher) and downsamples them to 48k before applying corrections.


So what is Audyssey doing with analog signals, e.g., from an external DAC? Are they getting converted to digital at some resolution before Audyssey correction is applied, or does the correction take place in the analog domain?


OK, this is probably a beginner's question, but I don't recall seeing this addressed before.
Audyssey correction tales place in the digital domain just like other room corrections(YPAO, Dirac, ARC , etc). There is no point in using an external DAC if you are using digital room correction. All it does is add an unnecessary ADA conversion cycle. If you want to the benefit from the external DAC, you would have to use pure direct and hope your avr has a pure analog path. The marantz units do. I wouldn't recommend it. IME room correction far out weighs the differences between DACs.
mthomas47 likes this.
tbaucom is offline  
post #8339 of 8548 Old 05-05-2020, 11:25 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I think you already have a good handle on the nature of the problem: phase-cancellation between your front speakers and your subwoofer. As you noted, there are two potential ways to address the issue. Whichever of the two methods you choose should be used after you run your Audyssey calibration. It won't affect the calibration in a negative way.

It would probably be easier to adjust the distance setting on the subwoofer, with your AVR remote, while listening to or measuring the volume of the 80Hz sine wave at your MLP. I would adjust the distance in 1' increments, and the distance adjustment should probably not exceed 7'. (That would represent roughly one-half wavelength at 80Hz, or a phase change of 180 degrees.)

You could always try both methods, and see which one seems to work better, but it will be much easier to determine that once you have REW.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks so much! If you don't mind, one last thing while we are on the topic.

Once REW is set up, I plan on using it to help find the optimal subwoofer/main speaker placement. I'm under the impression that I will turn off Odyssey when running these initial position tests so that I can find the optimal placement prior to any room correction, is that correct? Is it also correct that I will be running these tests on the individual components of the system, i.e., the mains will be shut down when running test tones to determine optimal subwoofer placement? If so, I'm assuming the phase of the sub at this stage can be left at zero since we are evaluating it in isolation?

Once the optimal locations have been determined, I would then run audyssey with both the mains and sub connected. Next step would be adjusting the phase of the subwoofer (after running audyssey as you recommended) with 1 of the 2 methods discussed earlier, but now using the graph generated in REW to direct any changes. Once the optimal phase is found (crossover region on the graph looks most flat), the last step would be applying any parametric curves (i'll be doing this directly via the subwoofer) to further flatten any peaks or valleys in the low frequency response. So suppose there was still a bit of a null around the crossover even after finding optimal placement, running audyssey, and altering the phase... the very last step would be adding a parametric curve to further reduce this?

Is this in general the correct order? Sorry for the long post, did my best to browse through all the info on here but sometimes it's nice run things by someone. Genuinely appreciate the help!!
mthomas47 likes this.
bbecker4 is offline  
post #8340 of 8548 Old 05-05-2020, 01:10 PM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,856
Mentioned: 430 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6023 Post(s)
Liked: 12362
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbecker4 View Post
Thanks so much! If you don't mind, one last thing while we are on the topic.

Once REW is set up, I plan on using it to help find the optimal subwoofer/main speaker placement. I'm under the impression that I will turn off Odyssey when running these initial position tests so that I can find the optimal placement prior to any room correction, is that correct? Is it also correct that I will be running these tests on the individual components of the system, i.e., the mains will be shut down when running test tones to determine optimal subwoofer placement? If so, I'm assuming the phase of the sub at this stage can be left at zero since we are evaluating it in isolation?

Once the optimal locations have been determined, I would then run audyssey with both the mains and sub connected. Next step would be adjusting the phase of the subwoofer (after running audyssey as you recommended) with 1 of the 2 methods discussed earlier, but now using the graph generated in REW to direct any changes. Once the optimal phase is found (crossover region on the graph looks most flat), the last step would be applying any parametric curves (i'll be doing this directly via the subwoofer) to further flatten any peaks or valleys in the low frequency response. So suppose there was still a bit of a null around the crossover even after finding optimal placement, running audyssey, and altering the phase... the very last step would be adding a parametric curve to further reduce this?

Is this in general the correct order? Sorry for the long post, did my best to browse through all the info on here but sometimes it's nice run things by someone. Genuinely appreciate the help!!

You are very welcome! That sounds like an excellent approach!

With respect to the last step, involving applying additional PEQ post-Audyssey, I think you will just have to wait and see. Assuming that your phase correction reduces the area of cancellation, or moves it higher in frequency, you might not have to do anything further with it.

If the cancellation moves higher in frequency, the subwoofer (crossed at 80Hz) would already be playing at a reduced volume at that frequency. So, phase cancellation between the front speakers and the sub may be less important at that point.

In addition to that, very narrow nulls typically have little impact on what we actually hear. That is partly because individual notes can span 5Hz or more at mid-bass frequencies. Our brains are also very good at hearing frequencies just below and above an area of cancellation, (and at hearing harmonics of fundamental frequencies), and convincing us that we are hearing everything. That is an important difference between listening to complex sounds and listening to sine waves.

The only caveat involved in using PEQ, to boost an area of cancellation, is the fact that it may consume subwoofer headroom that you might prefer to save for other uses. So, a lot will depend on what you actually measure, after you have completed your earlier steps, and what you actually hear with complex sounds.

Regards,
Mike
Jimmy2Shoes and bbecker4 like this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Audyssey , receiver setup , speaker

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off