Originally Posted by lovingdvd
Thanks for that - good to know and to keep in mind.
Thanks I had overlooked that 1 point REW vs multi-point Audyssey. I understand what you are saying.
Sounds like a great idea. As an Audyssey newb I had ran it and just did a single point, because I only care about a single seat and didn't want it to take other seats into account. But after getting advice here and reading the FAQ I realized the importance of the multiple measurements. I am going to repeat the test but with the multiple measuring points grouped much closer together, like 6" apart in each direction from position 1 and see how that goes.
Here's an interesting question - my couch is just 1.5 foot off the rear wall so there's no room to measure behind it - should I just skip measures 7 and 8, or still do these measures but measure them in other nearby spots which are near the MLP but not behind it? IOW is Audyssey expecting measures 7 and 8 to be behind the listener, or are these just two extra data points for averaging and it doesn't really matter where they are just as long as they are close to the MLP?
I checked the trims after my last calibration using REW and the Right channel was just 0.5 dB less than it should have been. But I left it in the position it picked figuring that maybe it had its reason. I did do the levels with REW's signal generator and they were very close to even this way (like mentioned just 0.5 dB off). When using the internal test tone they were like 1.5 dB off. Really strange that they would put test tones in that don't measure accurately, don't you think?
After running my latest calibration (6 point, since I have no room behind the sofa for measures 7 and 8 as mentioned above) I left everything as it was, including the distances which are about 2 feet too long.
I can get the bass output I want. I just have to crank up the trim for the sub. It set it at -10 dB. I find that at -5 dB its doing what I want, with a dB or two tweak here or there based on source. DEQ is working nicely too - I really like it. Does a great job "filling in" bass when listening at low levels.
Things sound amazing really with all these configurations! With the exception of one or two calibration attempts sounding a bit too bright. Right now I have it sounding great. I've used the Save function to save off some of the calibrations. But unfortunately its really hard to know from memory which calibration set is the best. One could be quite a bit better than the other, but without instant A/B switching its hard to know. Just like trying to compare on projectors image to another sometimes - without them side by side its hard to remember exactly what one looked like vs another. Same situation here, just with audio instead of video.
BTW on another note - Audyssey keeps wanting to set my XO at 40 Hz. My speakers are rated down to 40 Hz, and REW confirms that it is handling that just fine, so I am not surprised. That said, for reasons stated in the FAQ I prefer to run the XO at 80hz and set it that way in the manual settings. The FAQ says this doesn't impact Audyssey, but I feel like it could. Anyway it would be nice if there was a setting to tell Audyssey to use the desired XO and let it optimize around that.
You are very welcome! I won't try to address everything here, but there are a few points where some additional clarification may be helpful. First, I would definitely use all 8 mic positions, but I would not go behind the MLP, particularly with a wall just 18" away. Assuming that you are not dealing with a second row of seating, whatever mic pattern you are using describes a box around (to the sides and in front of) the MLP. It can be a big box, with a radius of 2' to 3' from the MLP, or it can be a small box, with a radius of 12" or less. But just do all 8 mic positions within that box. For positions 7 and 8, I stay fairly close to position #1
, going out about 6" or so to each side, and up about 2" above ear level. But that's just one approach. Anywhere within your box should be fine for 7 and 8. Incidentally, I am pretty anal about getting the mic height right at the middle of my ear canal for 1 through 6. And that height may be lower than you think, if you haven't really measured it.
I agree that it can be very difficult to compare calibrations, given the short-term nature of audio memory. But the more you perfect your calibration technique, the more your calibrations should become fairly consistent in reproducing very similar sounding results. As mentioned earlier, it is very helpful to keep a log of your last/best mic pattern, so that you can return to that specific pattern whenever you need to do another calibration.
Audyssey doesn't actually set your crossover. Your AVR (or pre pro) does. That may seem like an unimportant distinction, but I thought you would want to understand this. Audyssey measures a speaker (CC) or a speaker pair, and reports the F3 point (the frequency where the volume of a speaker is down by 3db) to the AVR. The AVR then assigns Large, or Small with a crossover, based on its own internal algorithm. The assignment is based on the higher response of a pair of speakers, if the F3 points are not identical (typically due to room placement). Each company has its own formula for assigning crossovers (Denon/Marantz should be exactly the same) and they should be very similar, but might not be identical. For instance, if a speaker pair has an F3 point of 38Hz, are they set as Large, or are they set as Small with a 40Hz crossover? What about 39Hz? We have never really had clarification on how the different Audyssey implementations among makers such as Onkyo, or Denon/Marantz, exactly vary with respect to setting crossovers, but again the differences should be insignificant.
In any event, that initial crossover setting doesn't really matter, as given the information, that your speakers are set to Small /40Hz, you now know that you should probably reset them to 80Hz, and probably to not less than 60Hz, in any case. That is based on a good general rule of thumb, that for HT, speakers should typically have crossovers 1/2 to 1 octave higher than their in-room F3 point, in order to relieve strain on the AVR and offload it onto the sub. And that rule is a pretty good one to follow even with XT-32, which sets equivalent filters for both the subs and the satellite channels. But there can sometimes be advantages to the use of a 60Hz crossover for mid-bass support, for instance, so I am personally glad that we have both an initial crossover, based on the reported F3 point, and the ability to modify it to suit our own listening objectives. Of course, just to be on the safe side for whomever might read this, I should add that it is never advisable to set a crossover lower than where an AVR put it.