"Official" Audyssey thread Part II - Page 67 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1981 of 6963 Old 01-06-2017, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by purplerain View Post
Would I hurt my sub if I were to directly raise the volume on the sub to 70-75 with the max volume being at 80 (1 - 80max)?
Nope.

If it would make you feel better though, you could get a y-splitter and connect to both inputs on the sub. This would increase the input gain by +6dB and allow you to keep the sub gain lower.

Just FYI, the gain knob on a sub would more correctly be described as an "input sensitivity adjustment", it is not a "volume" control.
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post #1982 of 6963 Old 01-06-2017, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Nope.

If it would make you feel better though, you could get a y-splitter and connect to both inputs on the sub. This would increase the input gain by +6dB and allow you to keep the sub gain lower.

Just FYI, the gain knob on a sub would more correctly be described as an "input sensitivity adjustment", it is not a "volume" control.

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post #1983 of 6963 Old 01-06-2017, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by purplerain View Post
Just did the rerun with "DIRECT" setting on sub...It did change a few things with that setting, all should be good from here on out.

Low-pass crossover on sub is set to DIRECT
Volume on sub is set to 65 (1-80 max)
Rerun of Audyssey
AVR set sub at -2db
AVR set front/center/surround speakers to 80
Great that it all worked out. Though the thing about your results is that the readings of your speakers shouldn't have changed because of this. Every speaker/subwoofer is measured independently. So the reason they measured different isn't due to the low pass filter. Why did they change? Can be tons of reasons, but I wouldn't know which it is

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post #1984 of 6963 Old 01-06-2017, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Johan81 View Post
Great that it all worked out. Though the thing about your results is that the readings of your speakers shouldn't have changed because of this. Every speaker/subwoofer is measured independently. So the reason they measured different isn't due to the low pass filter. Why did they change? Can be tons of reasons, but I wouldn't know which it is
Could be slight differences in mic placement and/or the fact that these Audyssey mics aren't that accurate (+/-3dB).
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post #1985 of 6963 Old 01-06-2017, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by purplerain View Post
Alan has already given you the advice that you need. But, if you want to understand a little more about the sub gain/trim settings, it would be helpful to read Post 1296 on Page 44 of this thread.

Regards,
Mike
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post #1986 of 6963 Old 01-06-2017, 02:55 PM
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Alan has already given you the advice that you need.
...and others.
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post #1987 of 6963 Old 01-06-2017, 03:50 PM
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...and others.
And others! Sorry--didn't mean to leave anyone out. I just wanted to emphasize that Alan's advice, to try to set a very low trim level, had nailed it.
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post #1988 of 6963 Old 01-06-2017, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
And others! Sorry--didn't mean to leave anyone out. I just wanted to emphasize that Alan's advice, to try to set a very low trim level, had nailed it.
Not to usurp your and Alan's prowess and usual great advice, lowering sub trim was suggested many posts ago. Look forward to reading more of your and Alan's excellent posts.

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post #1989 of 6963 Old 01-06-2017, 04:28 PM
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I had just picked up the Denon AVR-X3300W the other day. To summarize quickly, I'm in a very small oddly shaped room, but have always seem to get what I like out of my receivers as far as sound goes. I also understand that the saying "whatever sounds best to you" is usually the way to go, but that didn't mean I wasn't going to give Audyssey a shot.

Anyways, I had run Audyssey and then afterwards played my Atmos demo disc and I couldn't believe as to how it sounded. It was muddled, dry and flat (sounding far worse than my previous receiver) The higher frequencies were rolled off way too much for my taste and the lower frequencies were more like midrange frequencies. I had decided to try all three difference Audyssey modes and didn't enjoy any of them, so that's when I turned it off entirely and decided to mess around with the graphic EQ and I'm definitely enjoying it a lot more.

My questions are...Am I making a huge mistake not using Audyssey? Does Audyssey's measurements, speaker distance and speaker level still come into play, (leaving out the Audyssey curve of course) when the graphic EQ is being used?

Thank you!

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post #1990 of 6963 Old 01-06-2017, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MasterAudio View Post
I had just picked up the Denon AVR-X3300W the other day. To summarize quickly, I'm in a very small oddly shaped room, but have always seem to get what I like out of my receivers as far as sound goes. I also understand that the saying "whatever sounds best to you" is usually the way to go, but that didn't mean I wasn't going to give Audyssey a shot.

Anyways, I had run Audyssey and then afterwards played my Atmos demo disc and I couldn't believe as to how it sounded. It was muddled, dry and flat (sounding far worse than my previous receiver) The higher frequencies were rolled off way too much for my taste and the lower frequencies were more like midrange frequencies. I had decided to try all three difference Audyssey modes and didn't enjoy any of them, so that's when I turned it off entirely and decided to mess around with the graphic EQ and I'm definitely enjoying it a lot more.

My questions are...Am I making a huge mistake not using Audyssey? Does Audyssey's measurements, speaker distance and speaker level still come into play, (leaving out the Audyssey curve of course) when the graphic EQ is being used?

Thank you!
Hi,

The settings that Audyssey performs during the calibration process, relative to distances, levels, and crossovers (in conjunction with your AVR) are distinct from the filters Audyssey applies to the various channels. So, they remain in place whether you use Audyssey or not.

I have never felt that the thread should exist just to promote the use of Audyssey, so I will not say that you are making a mistake in not using the automated room EQ. There are instances in which Audyssey just doesn't seem to satisfy a particular user. And, that may be the case here.

But, I will say that, in the great majority of cases, people achieve better sound quality when they invest some time in learning how to use Audyssey. Better set-up procedures, improved calibrations, and the helpful use of settings post-calibration, can take some effort. And, only you can decide whether that effort would be worthwhile.

Some people may genuinely benefit from a cursory calibration effort, but for most of us the sophisticated application of Audyssey is a bit of a process. The length of the Part I thread is an indication of that. Again, for most of us who invest the time, the improvement in SQ is worth the investment. But, that is very much a personal choice, with no absolute guarantee as to the results.

Regards,
Mike
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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #1991 of 6963 Old 01-06-2017, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MasterAudio View Post
I had just picked up the Denon AVR-X3300W the other day. To summarize quickly, I'm in a very small oddly shaped room, but have always seem to get what I like out of my receivers as far as sound goes. I also understand that the saying "whatever sounds best to you" is usually the way to go, but that didn't mean I wasn't going to give Audyssey a shot.

Anyways, I had run Audyssey and then afterwards played my Atmos demo disc and I couldn't believe as to how it sounded. It was muddled, dry and flat (sounding far worse than my previous receiver) The higher frequencies were rolled off way too much for my taste and the lower frequencies were more like midrange frequencies. I had decided to try all three difference Audyssey modes and didn't enjoy any of them, so that's when I turned it off entirely and decided to mess around with the graphic EQ and I'm definitely enjoying it a lot more.

My questions are...Am I making a huge mistake not using Audyssey? Does Audyssey's measurements, speaker distance and speaker level still come into play, (leaving out the Audyssey curve of course) when the graphic EQ is being used?

Thank you!
I also had similar results... No matter what I did..

Then..

I tried this for mic readings..

I put it at the center seat, ear height..
Ran the audyssey for only 3 readings .. Then after 3rd reading, told it I was done...

The 3 positions all remained at the center seating position.. I did not touch the mic...

When room eq was done, I turned off dynamic volume, and any bass enhancing etc..
Put all speakers to small and kept the distance and levels as was set by audyssey..
I put audyssey to FLAT settings, and bingo, sounded awesome, lively, and clean..

Now when comparing audyssey eq from flat to off, the flat was sweeter sounding at the same time smoother...
No muffled soinds or dead sound stage..

Prior to this, i tried all mic layouts. With 8 readings..

They 99% of time sounded like you described... I was at the point of turning off audyssey..

No longer... ☺️
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post #1992 of 6963 Old 01-06-2017, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

The settings that Audyssey performs during the calibration process, relative to distances, levels, and crossovers (in conjunction with your AVR) are distinct from the filters Audyssey applies to the various channels. So, they remain in place whether you use Audyssey or not.

I have never felt that the thread should exist just to promote the use of Audyssey, so I will not say that you are making a mistake in not using the automated room EQ. There are instances in which Audyssey just doesn't seem to satisfy a particular user. And, that may be the case here.

But, I will say that, in the great majority of cases, people achieve better sound quality when they invest some time in learning how to use Audyssey. Better set-up procedures, improved calibrations, and the helpful use of settings post-calibration, can take some effort. And, only you can decide whether that effort would be worthwhile.

Some people may genuinely benefit from a cursory calibration effort, but for most of us the sophisticated application of Audyssey is a bit of a process. The length of the Part I thread is an indication of that. Again, for most of us who invest the time, the improvement in SQ is worth the investment. But, that is very much a personal choice, with no absolute guarantee as to the results.

Regards,
Mike
Thank you so much for the in depth response! This definitely answers my questions and puts me a little more at ease.

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post #1993 of 6963 Old 01-06-2017, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post
I also had similar results... No matter what I did..

Then..

I tried this for mic readings..

I put it at the center seat, ear height..
Ran the audyssey for only 3 readings .. Then after 3rd reading, told it I was done...

The 3 positions all remained at the center seating position.. I did not touch the mic...

When room eq was done, I turned off dynamic volume, and any bass enhancing etc..
Put all speakers to small and kept the distance and levels as was set by audyssey..
I put audyssey to FLAT settings, and bingo, sounded awesome, lively, and clean..

Now when comparing audyssey eq from flat to off, the flat was sweeter sounding at the same time smoother...
No muffled soinds or dead sound stage..

Prior to this, i tried all mic layouts. With 8 readings..

They 99% of time sounded like you described... I was at the point of turning off audyssey..

No longer... ☺️
I'm going to have to give this a shot. Thank you, sir!

Denon AVR-X3300W (5.1.2) | Proficient Audio AW525 (L&R) | Proficient Audio CC550 | Proficient Audio GS10 (LFE) | Yamaha NS-IC400 (Surrounds) | Harmony Elite | Apple TV (4th Gen) | Denon BDP-1611UD | Sony BDP-S580 | Xbox One | Vizio M50-D1"
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Thank you so much for the in depth response! This definitely answers my questions and puts me a little more at ease.
You are very welcome! The way I look at this is that there is no hurry. Just enjoy things the way you have them for a while, if you want to, and then read a bit, and experiment a bit, as the mood strikes you.

One of the things I discovered, in learning to use Audyssey properly, was that it taught me some things about both my room, and my system set-up, because Audyssey can actually accentuate an already existing problem. So, in that sense, Audyssey helped me to achieve a better native sound quality, in the process of trying to achieve better calibrations. And, the result was better native sound quality, and better calibrations, which further enhanced that native sound.

I hope that doesn't sound too abstract, or blue sky, but it was literally true in my particular case.
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post #1995 of 6963 Old 01-07-2017, 10:38 AM
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I've run Audyssey setup a couple of times on my AVR-X7200WA coupled with five KEF LS50s and two SVS SB12's. After set up went in to confirm the crossover settings- and was surprised to see the front soundfield set at 40hz, the Center and Rear surrounds at 60hz. I played around with the settings a bit, setting them all to 80hz, 60hz, but I think it may have sounded better at the lower crossover points. The speakers are correctly showing up as "Small" in the settings.

What gives? The LS50s being so small I figured the crossover points should be set higher so that I can better use the power from the AVR to drive them the best way. Any advice?
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post #1996 of 6963 Old 01-07-2017, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mreloc1 View Post
I've run Audyssey setup a couple of times on my AVR-X7200WA coupled with five KEF LS50s and two SVS SB12's. After set up went in to confirm the crossover settings- and was surprised to see the front soundfield set at 40hz, the Center and Rear surrounds at 60hz. I played around with the settings a bit, setting them all to 80hz, 60hz, but I think it may have sounded better at the lower crossover points. The speakers are correctly showing up as "Small" in the settings.

What gives? The LS50s being so small I figured the crossover points should be set higher so that I can better use the power from the AVR to drive them the best way. Any advice?

Hi,

Crossovers are set by your AVR, based on the measured F3 point of a speaker, or speaker pair, in that position in the room. But, the crossover your AVR sets is not a recommendation--it's just an observation. It's up to the user as to how that information is used. And, that shows how much the room can influence the bass response, if a speaker rated at 78Hz quasi-anechoic is not down by 3db in volume (the F3 point) until it gets to about 40Hz, or 60Hz, with a particular room placement.

But, the best advice would still be to use an 80Hz crossover, or even a little higher one, in this case, so that your subs can handle as much of the bass as possible. If you feel that the sound may be better with lower crossovers, it is probably because you haven't raised your sub levels since running Audyssey. And, you probably need to do so. Post 1296, on Page 44, offers a comprehensive explanation of why you may need to add some bass boost, and the correct way to do it. Please read that, and let us know how things sound after you make some adjustments.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 01-07-2017 at 11:05 AM.
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post #1997 of 6963 Old 01-07-2017, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post

Some people may genuinely benefit from a cursory calibration effort, but for most of us the sophisticated application of Audyssey is a bit of a process. The length of the Part I thread is an indication of that. Again, for most of us who invest the time, the improvement in SQ is worth the investment. But, that is very much a personal choice, with no absolute guarantee as to the results.
Agreed. MasterAudio, let me share my Audyssey Odyssey. In my case, several years ago:
  • I lived with manual EQ for several weeks, then tried Audyssey calibration, using the pitiful instructions in my Marantz manual. Some aspects of SQ were better, and one was distinctly worse; there wasn't enough bass. I discovered the "Official" Audyssey Fourm (part I) then, and found out that insufficient bass was an almost universal complaint. So, I used the true tone controls (not the virtual sliders, which cannot be used with Audyssey) by going to Audio/Visual adjust > Audio adjust, kept Surround Parameters OFF, on the Tone option turned up the bass control by 6 dB, left the treble control at 0 (flat), and switched back and forth between Audyssey (called Audyssey Reference on some units) and Audyssey FLAT. I found that Audyssey FLAT sounded much more "alive."
  • The bass control mentioned above gave me a nice mid bass boost (~~ 80 Hz to ~~ 220 Hz) because it affected only the FL and FR channels, mostly above about 80 Hz, where the crossover to the subwoofer (for bass management) was. So, I turned up the Subwoofer (at the trim on my Marantz) by about 6 dB, as well, which gave me a deep bass boost (the separate LFE channel the filmmakers use for special effects was set for 120 Hz, as they recommend, while the bass management crossover was kept at 80 Hz, the usual recommendation. These two channels are mixed and both come out of the subwoofer output on most AVRs and pre/pros -- the sub gets them both.
  • The difference between just turning up the bass control and the sub, without first running Audyssey, and doing so after running Audyssey, is that in the former case, I would have been turning up a rather bumpy and jagged bass portion of the frequency response curve, whereas by running Audyssey first I was turning up a rather smooth part of the curve.
  • Overall, these post Audyssey manipulations, plus Audyssey itself, gave me much clearer, "open" sounding response. I re-ran Audyssey a few times, building in advice I was given on this Forum, as well as the excellent information at "Audyssey FAQ Linked Here" and there was further improvement.
  • I found I didn't like DEQ, which seemed to make the sound less clear and less transparent sounding, at least on my system, in my room. I usually run at about 5 to7 dB below Reference Level, so DEQ is not very necessary at that SPL. I remained happy using the bass control. The two are mutually exclusive.
  • I briefly tried Marantz's base (not bass) copy, thinking I could have my cake and eat it too, by fine tuning the Audyssey curve to my preference using the virtual graphic sliders.. It sounded pretty bad. It turns out that base copy doesn't copy the Audyssey results very well, but makes a very crude copy using broad ranges of the Audyssey EQ, instead of copying the hundreds of points of EQ that Audyssey provides. I contacted Chris K. of Audyssey, who offered the opinion that base copy is "useless."
  • I found out that one size does not fit all. Most Blu-rays of modern movies and SACDs do fine with the settings shown above, but some BDs of movies of the magnetic era (1953 -- ~~ early 1980s) need even more bass, and, sometimes, a slight treble cut. Ordinary DVDs and CDs are pretty variable, as well.
  • All in all, after much experimentation, Audyssey gives me the best sound I've ever had.
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post #1998 of 6963 Old 01-07-2017, 04:38 PM
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Agreed. In my case, several years ago:
  • I found out that one size does not fit all. Most Blu-rays of modern movies and SACDs do fine with the settings shown above, but some BDs of movies of the magnetic era (1953 -- ~~ early 1980s) need even more bass, and, sometimes, a slight treble cut. Ordinary DVDs and CDs are pretty variable, as well.
  • All in all, after much experimentation, Audyssey gives me the best sound I've ever had.
Hi Gary,

It's nice to see you posting, and that was a good one. As you know, I also use a combination of sub boost and mid-bass boost, via my tone controls, to achieve the balanced sound that I want. We use slightly different crossovers, and there are some other differences, but our listening preferences are far more alike than not. I also have always preferred Flat.

Happy New Year!

Regards,
Mike
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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
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post #1999 of 6963 Old 01-07-2017, 05:56 PM
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Was there any word on the app for current-gem D+M AVRs and pre-pros at CES?

I see Audyssey is exhibiting at the show.

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Visited the Audyssey website. To my surprise, info on MultEQ is getting lesser and lesser throughout the years. I'm extremely disappointed. Perhaps the market is going full force on portable/mobile audio.
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post #2001 of 6963 Old 01-07-2017, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

Crossovers are set by your AVR, based on the measured F3 point of a speaker, or speaker pair, in that position in the room. But, the crossover your AVR sets is not a recommendation--it's just an observation. It's up to the user as to how that information is used. And, that shows how much the room can influence the bass response, if a speaker rated at 78Hz quasi-anechoic is not down by 3db in volume (the F3 point) until it gets to about 40Hz, or 60Hz, with a particular room placement.

But, the best advice would still be to use an 80Hz crossover, or even a little higher one, in this case, so that your subs can handle as much of the bass as possible. If you feel that the sound may be better with lower crossovers, it is probably because you haven't raised your sub levels since running Audyssey. And, you probably need to do so. Post 1296, on Page 44, offers a comprehensive explanation of why you may need to add some bass boost, and the correct way to do it. Please read that, and let us know how things sound after you make some adjustments.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks for the advice, Mike. So, I went in to the AVR, set the front/center/surrounds to 80hz, and found the subs were set to -9 in the Levels menu, so I bumped them up to -3. The gain knob on the subs is about set in the middle, as prescribed by Audyssey during the set up to achieve the 75db volumes. I think it sounds better than before. Am I missing anything else? Should I bump the gain knob on the subs and back off on the level setting in the AVR?

So all of this has left me a little confused about what Audyssey is really for since it's touted as "the easy set up" method of getting up and running. Is the value in the EQ adjustments it makes? Like I said, it sounded pretty good after the initial Audyssey set-up, but I am happy that I might be using my AVR power more smartly by setting the speakers to 80hz and letting the subs carry the bass work.
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post #2002 of 6963 Old 01-07-2017, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mreloc1 View Post
Thanks for the advice, Mike. So, I went in to the AVR, set the front/center/surrounds to 80hz, and found the subs were set to -9 in the Levels menu, so I bumped them up to -3. The gain knob on the subs is about set in the middle, as prescribed by Audyssey during the set up to achieve the 75db volumes. I think it sounds better than before. Am I missing anything else? Should I bump the gain knob on the subs and back off on the level setting in the AVR?

So all of this has left me a little confused about what Audyssey is really for since it's touted as "the easy set up" method of getting up and running. Is the value in the EQ adjustments it makes? Like I said, it sounded pretty good after the initial Audyssey set-up, but I am happy that I might be using my AVR power more smartly by setting the speakers to 80hz and letting the subs carry the bass work.
You are very welcome! Nearly any modern AVR will help you with set-up, in terms of timing (distance), trim level, and crossover settings. And all, or nearly all, would work the same way with respect to resetting crossovers and adding sub boost. So, that part is about as easy as it gets for an HT system.

Audyssey's primary value is, in fact, in the room EQ it provides, separately from the basic set-up procedure. But, Audyssey is actually a very sophisticated piece of software, and like any software, may require some effort to use to full advantage.

For the time being, I would suggest that you read a few pages of the thread, starting back a week or two, just to gain some basic understanding of some Audyssey issues. The FAQ, linked below, will also be a good resource. Otherwise, just enjoy your audio, and experiment a little bit with some of the settings, as the spirit moves you, to find out what features you like, and what features you don't.

I think your sub gain/trim settings are fine for now. But, if you want to add any more boost, I would definitely use the sub gains to do it.

Regards,
Mike
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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #2003 of 6963 Old 01-08-2017, 12:58 PM
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[QUOTE=mreloc1;49678265


So all of this has left me a little confused about what Audyssey is really for since it's touted as "the easy set up" method of getting up and running. Is the value in the EQ adjustments it makes? Like I said, it sounded pretty good after the initial Audyssey set-up, but I am happy that I might be using my AVR power more smartly by setting the speakers to 80hz and letting the subs carry the bass work.[/QUOTE]

Not a bad question at all given that spin is inescapable with advertising.

If you want to be able to run the setup process and engage Audyssey and get "perfect sound" you have accepted the spin and may be doomed to disappointment. The Audyssey Reference setting delivers an EQ curve that was designed based on studies of the listening preferences of a sample of listeners. The fact that someone actually did a study on listener's preferences should tell you straight away that not everyone likes a Flat response, and also that not everyone prefers exactly the same result as everyone else. Audyssey Reference isn't bad, and it is better than Flat for a lot of people, but it's going to be "ideal" for fewer people than then number of people who think it's better than Flat. Preferences aren't either/or things, they operate over wide ranges with some people preferring things a bit one way or the other, some preferring them a bit more one way or the other, and so on up to where you find some people preferring a hell of a lot one way or the other.

Audyssey has a lot of options. Besides Flat, Reference, and Off you've got Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume, and Low Frequency Containment. With Dynamic EQ turned Off you can access the bass and treble tone controls on my Marantz. If you want a HF roll off and don't like Reference you can use Flat and engage Cinema EQ instead on Marantz and Denon AVRs and maybe some other makes.. You can adjust speaker trims to raise or lower the level of individual channels including the sub. A lot of those variations can be done in combination with one or more other variations. You actually have a fair bit of flexibility which may not be immediately obvious.

The Setup process gives you a starting point but just accepting the results and Audyssey's Reference curve isn't going to guarantee that you're going to be happy because you may not be. Reference is the fuzzy average of the preferences of a lot of people but there's no guarantee that it's going to represent your preference. It may be close to your preference—it seems to be close to mine—or it could be a fair bit off your preference. A bit of work with the options in Audyssey's and your AVR's settings is almost certainly not going to go astray.

Having said that, it also has to be recognised that some things in the setup process like mic positions and how closely they are spaced, number of measurements, and room modifications like opening or closing doors and windows can influence the result as well and it can sometimes take a bit of experimentation to find a specific setup process that works for you. The FAQ has some hints and suggestions on that.

Basically Audyssey is a tool you can use to help you get sound you enjoy. It's not the only tool because things like tone controls are also tools, but it will get you up and running with speaker distances and trim settings done pretty well. Depending on your own preferences, that plus selecting either Flat or Reference could be anywhere between delivering just what you want or falling somewhat short of that. If it's not what you want, then try playing with the options. If that doesn't work, then perhaps try experimenting with a slightly different setup process and seeing whether that gets you closer but between Reference and Flat, playing with the options your AVR offer you to modify those responses, and trying different setup procedures in extreme circumstances, you should be able to get an end result that you like.
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post #2004 of 6963 Old 01-08-2017, 02:04 PM
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Not sure if this is an Audyssey question or a Denon question, but I'll try here first.

I have front and rear upfiring Klipsch RP-140SA Atmos speakers. In the Audyssey setup of my Denon X4300 it asks for the distance between the Atmos speakers and the ceiling, which I measured and entered. Post-setup, the distances for both the front and rears are correct almost to the inch (8' and 5' for round numbers). However I have read that with upfiring modules the distance should actually be the distance from speaker to ceiling + distance from there to the MLP. In my case that would be closer to 12' and 9'.

What I don't know is if, given that the speaker to ceiling height is entered as part of setup, Audyssey is basically doing an isosceles triangle calculation to arrive at the horizontal distance from Atmos speakers to MLP, or if the mic is picking up direct rather than reflected sound.

Does anyone know what Audyssey does with that speaker to ceiling measurement please?
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post #2005 of 6963 Old 01-08-2017, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedie95 View Post
Not sure if this is an Audyssey question or a Denon question, but I'll try here first.

I have front and rear upfiring Klipsch RP-140SA Atmos speakers. In the Audyssey setup of my Denon X4300 it asks for the distance between the Atmos speakers and the ceiling, which I measured and entered. Post-setup, the distances for both the front and rears are correct almost to the inch (8' and 5' for round numbers). However I have read that with upfiring modules the distance should actually be the distance from speaker to ceiling + distance from there to the MLP. In my case that would be closer to 12' and 9'.

What I don't know is if, given that the speaker to ceiling height is entered as part of setup, Audyssey is basically doing an isosceles triangle calculation to arrive at the horizontal distance from Atmos speakers to MLP, or if the mic is picking up direct rather than reflected sound.

Does anyone know what Audyssey does with that speaker to ceiling measurement please?
I have no idea what the answer to this one is. If I were you, I would post the question on the Atmos home theater version thread. I'm sure that several people there will be able to help.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #2006 of 6963 Old 01-10-2017, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedie95 View Post
Not sure if this is an Audyssey question or a Denon question, but I'll try here first.

I have front and rear upfiring Klipsch RP-140SA Atmos speakers. In the Audyssey setup of my Denon X4300 it asks for the distance between the Atmos speakers and the ceiling, which I measured and entered. Post-setup, the distances for both the front and rears are correct almost to the inch (8' and 5' for round numbers). However I have read that with upfiring modules the distance should actually be the distance from speaker to ceiling + distance from there to the MLP. In my case that would be closer to 12' and 9'.

What I don't know is if, given that the speaker to ceiling height is entered as part of setup, Audyssey is basically doing an isosceles triangle calculation to arrive at the horizontal distance from Atmos speakers to MLP, or if the mic is picking up direct rather than reflected sound.

Does anyone know what Audyssey does with that speaker to ceiling measurement please?

I asked Audyssey directly, and figured I'd add their answer in case anyone has the same question in future:

Quote:
Audyssey measures the distance from the speaker directly to the first microphone position.

The receiver takes that information along with the entered ceiling height to create the distance from speaker to ceiling back down to the first microphone position.

There is no need to change the distance. The receiver is doing the calculation internally.

I then asked for a little clarification: "If the sound is reflected from the ceiling, which is what an upfiring Atmos speaker does, then how can this be the case? If it is measuring (e.g.) 8' as the speaker distance, then that is technically incorrect as the path from speaker -> ceiling -> MLP is actually 12'. I guess my concern is that the mic is picking up direct rather than reflected sound.

Secondary question: should I be entering the straight vertical distance from speaker to ceiling, or the diagonal distance taking into account the 22 degree slope from the horizontal that is built into the speakers please?"

Quote:
Low frequencies are used to measure the distance, which are very non-directional. It reaches the microphone before the reflections do. This is what is meant to be measured. The receiver does the math for the directional reflected sound.

Enter the vertical distance from speaker to ceiling.

So there you go. Simply enter the vertical distance from the upfiring speakers to the ceiling, and Audyssey will do the rest.
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post #2007 of 6963 Old 01-12-2017, 12:54 AM
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Audyssey setup fails

Hello everyone!

am a new joinee here. have been reading pages of this forum through google searches since past few years, but have joined now.

i seek your suggestion regarding an issue am facing with audyssey. am new to the AVR i recently got a Marantz NR1606. i dont have side-surrounds but rear ones. problem is, at the beginning of the set-up, audyssesy asks if i have surrounds (side), to which i have to select 'yes' (followed by another prompt asking about rear surrounds), otherwise it assumes that i have only the fronts and the center. however, after end of the test when the mic is at listening-position 1, it displays that the test has failed because the side-surrounds were not detected (this is, after going through a couple of random 'phase' errors). i cannot see any option to skip it too. could anybody please suggest how to overcome this? the AVR is on the latest firmware (the one which enables DTS:X decoding capability). i found that there's a wealth of info here on audyssey plus multiple setup guides too. gonna go through them as well.

TIA!
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post #2008 of 6963 Old 01-12-2017, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by InfoScav View Post
Hello everyone!

am a new joinee here. have been reading pages of this forum through google searches since past few years, but have joined now.

i seek your suggestion regarding an issue am facing with audyssey. am new to the AVR i recently got a Marantz NR1606. i dont have side-surrounds but rear ones. problem is, at the beginning of the set-up, audyssesy asks if i have surrounds (side), to which i have to select 'yes' (followed by another prompt asking about rear surrounds), otherwise it assumes that i have only the fronts and the center. however, after end of the test when the mic is at listening-position 1, it displays that the test has failed because the side-surrounds were not detected (this is, after going through a couple of random 'phase' errors). i cannot see any option to skip it too. could anybody please suggest how to overcome this? the AVR is on the latest firmware (the one which enables DTS:X decoding capability). i found that there's a wealth of info here on audyssey plus multiple setup guides too. gonna go through them as well.

TIA!
Hi, and welcome to the thread! It is possible that I am misinterpreting what is happening here, but from your description, I suspect that you have wired your surround speakers incorrectly to your AVR. The two surround speakers should be connected to the back of the Marantz as Surround Speakers, not as Rear Surround Speakers. Where you actually position your speakers is irrelevant with respect to whether they are out to the side, or in the rear.

A 5.1 system consists of two front speakers, a center channel, two surround speakers, and one or more subs. Again, how you choose to actually position your surround speakers is entirely up to you, and will be irrelevant to the Audyssey calibration. It will still measure them wherever they are located. But, if your Speaker Configuration doesn't coincide with the actual physical connections at the back of your AVR, the calibration can not proceed.

So, simply connect your two surround speakers to the back as Surrounds, call them that in the Speaker Configuration Menu, and continue to position them to the rear of your listening area, if you like them there. Your calibration should work fine that way, and Audyssey will set distances, levels, and filters appropriately.

Regards,
Mike
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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #2009 of 6963 Old 01-12-2017, 08:38 AM
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Just to expand a bit on Mike's great advice...

Side surrounds must come before rear/back surrounds. The AVR will not let you connect/calibrate rear/back surrounds until you have the side surrounds connected.

5.1
-FL/FR
-CC
-Subwoofer
-Side Surrounds

7.1
-FL/FR
-CC
-Subwoofer
-Side Surrounds
-Rear/Back Surrounds
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post #2010 of 6963 Old 01-12-2017, 09:05 AM
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What all is essentially effected by turning off audessey? I assume the trim levels for all channels change to 0db and no more crossovers? What else? Thanks
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