Yamaha Aventage 2016 Models - Page 16 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 745 Old 06-16-2016, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by gckless View Post
Seriously considering an A860. AVR died, so I need something new. I think it has everything I want except for Google Cast. MusicCast stuff isn't really out yet, and expensive! Trying to cross-shop between that, Onkyo TX-RZ710 or NR757, and Pioneer LX301. Just afraid of dependability with the Onkyo stuff, don't know about the new Pioneer stuff. I'm open to advice
We just sold our first A860 which now offers both Atmos and DTS:X so if you decide to go that route ... call for pricing if interested. Although if Atmos/DTS:X is of no interest ... we still have an A850 available as well.
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post #452 of 745 Old 06-16-2016, 08:14 AM
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Yamaha Aventage 2016 Models

The A860 or even 850 (but no DTS:X) be fine choice for 7 channel AVR as along as ur not looking for 9 channel capability for Atmos 5.1.4 set-up. Have to get into 2050/60 territory for that


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post #453 of 745 Old 06-16-2016, 09:53 AM
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Hi tidwelr1,

Nice picture. May I ask the brand of your tv console?
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post #454 of 745 Old 06-16-2016, 11:59 AM
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Hi tidwelr1,

Nice picture. May I ask the brand of your tv console?


Thanks. I purchased that console from Haverty's 5-10 yrs ago. It was their "colors" console that they sold in various colors. They stopped selling it for some reason a couple of years ago. You may want to check with them again as they may be selling it again. It's laid out well with adjustable shelves for components and glass doors in the center and then it has slide out vertical slim cabinets with treys to store movies and games in on each side. It's worked out well. The height of it is perfect for having the center channel up top and being exactly ear height when sitting.


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post #455 of 745 Old 06-16-2016, 04:47 PM
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So I can get an A860 for $900, an A850 for $750, or an A1050 for $1000. Not sure I really need video out to Zone 2 from other HDMI sources, which is the big advantage that I can see for the A1050. Well, feature-wise. It is 10 pounds heavier, so I'm assuming there are some audio benefits there too. Really no benefit than I know of other than DTS:X from the A850 to the A860. What should I do?

And I know these aren't all 2016 models, I have another thread barely anyone looked at lol
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post #456 of 745 Old 06-16-2016, 07:47 PM
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agree on A860 vs 850 that only real advantage is DTS:X.

I just went through same decision process with the A2050 vs 2060 & purchased the A2050 (refurb.). The only thing I would have liked on the 2060 is angle measurements for the Atmos in-ceiling speakers, but I'll survive. But what the 2060 doesn't have is Yamaha removed the USB input for some stupid reason. I like plugging my ipod or iphone directly to the AVR vs using bluetooth when possible. Glad the A2050 has the USB port & also has DTS:X

Good luck w/your decision
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post #457 of 745 Old 06-16-2016, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
agree on A860 vs 850 that only real advantage is DTS:X.

I just went through same decision process with the A2050 vs 2060 & purchased the A2050 (refurb.). The only thing I would have liked on the 2060 is angle measurements for the Atmos in-ceiling speakers, but I'll survive. But what the 2060 doesn't have is Yamaha removed the USB input for some stupid reason. I like plugging my ipod or iphone directly to the AVR vs using bluetooth when possible. Glad the A2050 has the USB port & also has DTS:X

Good luck w/your decision
I checked the manual on my phone in a PDF and they show the A2060 still has the USB input on the front panel. Least the manual shows it's still there.

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post #458 of 745 Old 06-16-2016, 08:10 PM
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No Madmax, unfortunately the A2060 does not. Check the Yamaha web-site


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post #459 of 745 Old 06-16-2016, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
No Madmax, unfortunately the A2060 does not. Check the Yamaha web-site


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Well that's a deal breaker for me as well. I have a USB stick loaded with music and a couple iPods floating around that use the USB input. Why are they taking features AWAY from these supposedly flagship receivers?

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post #460 of 745 Old 06-16-2016, 08:22 PM
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I took a look at Yamaha's site and it appears to reflect that the A2060 includes a USB input, both in the photos and the specs.
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post #461 of 745 Old 06-16-2016, 08:23 PM
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Yamaha Aventage 2016 Models

I spoke to Yamaha customer service tonight, he stated they are receiving some backlash and agreed it should still exist. I have USB sticks also loaded with music for my 2 vehicles, my wife does also. Idiotic move by Yamaha


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post #462 of 745 Old 06-16-2016, 08:27 PM
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Confused now if web-site reflects it. Look at the FAQs on diff's between A2050 & 60. States USB input removed on A2060.

Edit for update:

In Compare vs. A2050 states: USB iPod/Apple USB support removed.

So the USB port is there, but doesn't support Apple products but I guess a USB stick is still ok. Sorry for confusion everyone, I'd call to double check


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Last edited by yanks1; 06-16-2016 at 08:40 PM.
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post #463 of 745 Old 06-16-2016, 09:23 PM
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The iPod support is probably accurate. I was in the local HT store today and one of the installers was saying you can't control an iPod from the app anymore on the 860, they had to pull it out and put the 850 back in a customer's place. I'd assume it's the same with the 2060.

Maybe the 1050 makes more sense for me now

Curious as to why they would drop it though. Might be a legal/money thing. Or they're trying to boost AirPlay or MusicCast participation? Who knows. Good thing is it can be fixed with a firmware update, so cross your fingers.
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post #464 of 745 Old 06-16-2016, 09:52 PM
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Very strange they took the Apple support away. Could be due to what you alluded to. I'm glad I got the A2050 plus saved a ton of $$ buying a refurbished model


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post #465 of 745 Old 06-17-2016, 05:38 AM
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Shoot, just realized I can't assign Zone 2 to anything other than front presence. Guess an A860 will be the one for me.
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post #466 of 745 Old 06-17-2016, 07:23 AM
 
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Most torrents are 21:9.
Only roughly. Their vertical resolution varies significantly, because the actual crop point depends on the level the black bars were at in the original signal. I was watching a downloaded Independence Day (new one) trailer in h264 mp4 format and it was 1920x745 native. 21:9 is closest to 1920x810. And I've inspected many a ripped movie in my time and there is a huge variance of vertical resolution.

Many "scope" ultra wide aspect format movies are not actually Cinemascope, only approximately so. Move aspect ratios are a huge clusterF. No standardization whatsoever.

Instead of a 21:9 flag in the content they should have sent two numbers : numerator and denominator representing the final image aspect ratio.

Assume the container is in 16:9 FHD or UHD (which it always is in Bluray or UHD Bluray), and then scale down vertically.

Which is the same thing as saying explicit anamorphic encoding like the old DVDs had. For some reason the engineers who designed Blurays assumed that people will always be using 16:9 displays, and that it's appropriate to encode black bars in a display signal.

What's even worse is how dumb HDMI is.

Let's say I want to create a custom resolution on my PC to match the aspect ratio of my screen, say 1920x810 (21:9).

Guess what? HDMI sends all those black pixels anyway, as if it were a 1920x1080 display. If it only sent the 1920x810 pixels over the wire it would open up the option of increasing the refresh rate to 80hz (4/3 is the inverse of 810/1080 so 4/3 * 60hz = 80hz). Of course it would be better to just peg it at 72hz instead so avoid 24p sync issues (even with interpolation, because at least 1/3 frames will be the original 24p frames untouched, reducing artifacts).
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post #467 of 745 Old 06-17-2016, 08:18 AM
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Hello everyone!


I'm trying to get in the ATMOS game but I had a few questions, I'm posting here because I'm mostly interested in the Yamaha Aventage line.

I'm really in to gaming and I game solely on an Xbox One. For those of you who don't know the new Xbox One S comes out in August with support of 4K streaming and a built in UHD player. Unfortunately it looks like it only has 1 HDMI out so in order to achieve ATMOS (if it even supports ATMOS) I would need to hook my Xbox directly up to my receiver and pass it through to my TV.

My first question.... Does using a AVR for pass through cause a bunch of input lag? I purchased the Vizio P65 2016 model because it had one of the lowest input lag money can buy.

Second question... 90% of the time I don't want to listen to full blown surround sound... If you hook a device up to the receiver, does it allow "pass through" to the TV without being on? eg If I turn my DirecTV box on that is connected to the AVR, which is connected to my TV, will I get audio/video on my TV without having to turn on my AVR?

Thanks for any help you can provide.
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post #468 of 745 Old 06-17-2016, 11:56 AM
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Hello everyone!


I'm trying to get in the ATMOS game but I had a few questions, I'm posting here because I'm mostly interested in the Yamaha Aventage line.

I'm really in to gaming and I game solely on an Xbox One. For those of you who don't know the new Xbox One S comes out in August with support of 4K streaming and a built in UHD player. Unfortunately it looks like it only has 1 HDMI out so in order to achieve ATMOS (if it even supports ATMOS) I would need to hook my Xbox directly up to my receiver and pass it through to my TV.

My first question.... Does using a AVR for pass through cause a bunch of input lag? I purchased the Vizio P65 2016 model because it had one of the lowest input lag money can buy.

Second question... 90% of the time I don't want to listen to full blown surround sound... If you hook a device up to the receiver, does it allow "pass through" to the TV without being on? eg If I turn my DirecTV box on that is connected to the AVR, which is connected to my TV, will I get audio/video on my TV without having to turn on my AVR?

Thanks for any help you can provide.
1. Not a gamer, but with video processing turned off, there shouldn't be much lag AFAIK.
2. Yes, you can pass through an HDMI source while in Standby.
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post #469 of 745 Old 06-17-2016, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
Assume the container is in 16:9 FHD or UHD (which it always is in Bluray or UHD Bluray), and then scale down vertically.

Which is the same thing as saying explicit anamorphic encoding like the old DVDs had. For some reason the engineers who designed Blurays assumed that people will always be using 16:9 displays, and that it's appropriate to encode black bars in a display signal.
As a counter-argument, I would say that the engineers may have foreseen that cheap blu-ray players might have really crappy scalers in them, and so they didn't want to risk picture quality for the majority of viewers (cheap players) on the majority of movies (2.35) just to benefit a small number of anamorphic viewers.

I've got to say, I don't see why anamorphically encoded media is so appealing. In order to take advantage of more than 810 lines on a 21:9 encode, you either need:
A. A display with non-square pixels, or
B. A display with square pixels, and more than 1920 pixels width. (2520x1080?)
So,
A. The only modern display with non-square pixels that I know of are projectors with anamorphic lens attached. An anamorphically encoded BD could achieve slightly higher vertical picture quality, assuming the lens is of equally high quality. Although 2.35 screens are pretty common in home theaters, many of them use zoom/lens memory to achieve cinemascope without expensive lens. The high-quality 2.35 lens scenario has got to be <0.1% of BD playback, so it doesn't surprise me that engineers thought they could deal with the 25% reduction in lines.
B. I haven't heard of any 1080p display having more than 1920 horizontal pixels (other than a few high-end projectors). And if it did, you'd still have to horizontally scale the 1920 width up to 2520 within the display; it wouldn't be native resolution.

While I readily acknowledge that anamorphically encoded BDs could provide a small PQ increase (33% in one of two dimensions) for lens users, I just don't see the user-base large enough to justify the other 99.9% of BD viewers having to scale (and lose PQ) for their 16:9 TVs or 1920x810 zoomed projectors. Scalers were okay in the DVD days, but back when BD was released, 1080p scalers were expensive, powerhungry, and/or terrible.

Not that this is a good argument, but I'm sure this also passed through the engineers' minds: HDMI doesn't really have a good way to tell the player what the aspect ratio of the display is (as far as I know). Therefore, devices just kinda assume square pixels. In order to support lens users, then, the BD player would have to have a setup menu option to switch between "widescreen" and "cinemascope", aka "scale and add bars" and "direct," respectively. How many ignorant users would select CinemaScope just to "eliminate the black bars"? That is exactly what too many people do today with DVDs, SDTV, as well as 16:9 letterboxed TV that is sent in a 4:3 SDTV encode. Such improper display of nice BD content would be disastrous.
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post #470 of 745 Old 06-18-2016, 11:00 AM
 
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Good points.

I'm not so much worried about anamorphic lens users (even though I am one) getting 33% more actual vertical resolution for my trouble and investment, I'm more disappointed that the black pixels are actually being stored / encoded / decoded and finally sent over the HDMI wire, which is my main issue.

I'm not sure what the encoding overhead is for black bars in Blurays or UHD Blurays even, but it's not zero. That extra quality could go into making the region that is visible look better, i.e. higher overall bitrate budget. And that's beside the fact that the worst loss happens at the signal level. As I said before, if I could send 1920x810 signal natively over HDMI to my projector, in a similar way to sending a 1920x810 signal over VGA, then I could boost the refresh rate to 72hz-80hz (makes a big, visible difference in games, especially with a ten foot wide image), or use 10-bits in RGB / 444 without having to drop to 422, as I currently do.

I get it that it's best to avoid extra scaling steps and optimize for the common case 16:9 display owners. 21:9 is niche and might always be, and therefore the extra hassle and potential quality loss of poorly downscaling at the player or the TV side could result in a poorer result.

But it doesn't make sense to send black pixels over the wire. The display should switch into a new mode when the resolution changes, and even if you're not boosting the refresh rate or bit depth (for free) in exchange for only using 3/4 of the vertical real estate of a 16:9 frame, it would still save power and be more efficient. I mean, who wouldn't want 10-bit video for free at 444?

You could even have a game or movie that's in 21:9 aspect ratio being played back in HDR10 but in 444, over 18gps HDMI 2.0a. I really have to do some more reading as to what exactly that 21:9 flag is supposed to accomplish, because as far as I understand it, it doesn't actually do anything. Is it supposed to represent when you're sending 16:9 content anamorphically encoded to 21:9 ? Or is it to signal that the TV is getting 21:9 content over a 16:9 wrapper, which is unnecessary. I don't get it.

Out of curiosity, I might just email Yamaha again to find out the raison d'etre of the 21:9 flag, maybe they know.
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post #471 of 745 Old 06-18-2016, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
Confused now if web-site reflects it. Look at the FAQs on diff's between A2050 & 60. States USB input removed on A2060.

Edit for update:

In Compare vs. A2050 states: USB iPod/Apple USB support removed.

So the USB port is there, but doesn't support Apple products but I guess a USB stick is still ok. Sorry for confusion everyone, I'd call to double check


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That's weird. Don't be sorry. You're trying to stay on top of the differences and their verbiage was confusing . Strange though.

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post #472 of 745 Old 06-20-2016, 02:23 PM
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Update on my amazon order from a month ago where the prices were lower. It's now saying the expected delivery date for the 3060 may be after July 20th and that it needs my approval or they will cancel the order. Didn't receive any email notification that I needed to approve something so I recommend everyone signs on and approves the delay under order history "open orders."
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post #473 of 745 Old 06-20-2016, 02:55 PM
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Update on my amazon order from a month ago where the prices were lower. It's now saying the expected delivery date for the 3060 may be after July 20th and that it needs my approval or they will cancel the order. Didn't receive any email notification that I needed to approve something so I recommend everyone signs on and approves the delay under order history "open orders."
The rx-a860 has been available for a while now. Did anyone order one of them from Amazon last month? If yes, what is the status on your A860 orders?

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post #474 of 745 Old 06-20-2016, 04:41 PM
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Update on my amazon order from a month ago where the prices were lower. It's now saying the expected delivery date for the 3060 may be after July 20th and that it needs my approval or they will cancel the order. Didn't receive any email notification that I needed to approve something so I recommend everyone signs on and approves the delay under order history "open orders."
I got the email last night which required action to approve the delay. My 1060 was due today (6/20) but is delayed with no ETA. I was slightly annoyed until I searched just about every place that would carry the 1060 and NONE had received any stock and had no idea when they would have any all. B&H said they expect them by July 6th. I don't think this is amazon trying to get out of my pre-order I just think Yamaha hasn't delivered any stock yet.

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post #475 of 745 Old 06-20-2016, 05:37 PM
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I got the email last night which required action to approve the delay. My 1060 was due today (6/20) but is delayed with no ETA. I was slightly annoyed until I searched just about every place that would carry the 1060 and NONE had received any stock and had no idea when they would have any all. B&H said they expect them by July 6th. I don't think this is amazon trying to get out of my pre-order I just think Yamaha hasn't delivered any stock yet.
I spoke with Yamaha the other day. The 1060 has not been released yet. The representative from Yamaha stated they expect them to release early July.
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post #476 of 745 Old 06-22-2016, 03:49 PM
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Anybody know what scaler chip is being used by Yamaha in 2016? Is it the same scaler across all models with upscaling?
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post #477 of 745 Old 06-26-2016, 02:54 AM
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Gotta admit that I'm weird, but I have a question about the Yamaha DSP with Atmos/DTS-X: Does that mean that it's finally possible (with an external, additional power amp) to use both rear prescence and front presence in addition to ceiling speakers? I'm asking because I have a 11.4.4 (with the boxes inside the ceiling ready and wired and only the speaker holes needing to be cut to go up to 11.4.6 if that ever gets available) in my cabin. And I've been holding off upgrading my RX-V3067 until now because I couldn't get 11.4.4. But it seems like the poor thing has died, and that means that I will have to buy something new. I can get a slightly used 3050 for around $1200 less than a new 3060, but I would buy the 3060 in a heartbeat if I can use my full setup on it.

11.4/7.4.4 Wharfedale E-series, Yamaha RX-A3070, JVC DLA-X500 projector
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post #478 of 745 Old 06-26-2016, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastiff View Post
Gotta admit that I'm weird, but I have a question about the Yamaha DSP with Atmos/DTS-X: Does that mean that it's finally possible (with an external, additional power amp) to use both rear prescence and front presence in addition to ceiling speakers? I'm asking because I have a 11.4.4 (with the boxes inside the ceiling ready and wired and only the speaker holes needing to be cut to go up to 11.4.6 if that ever gets available) in my cabin. And I've been holding off upgrading my RX-V3067 until now because I couldn't get 11.4.4. But it seems like the poor thing has died, and that means that I will have to buy something new. I can get a slightly used 3050 for around $1200 less than a new 3060, but I would buy the 3060 in a heartbeat if I can use my full setup on it.
Not yet. Perhaps 2018 or 2019. FP/RP speakers are still considered "height" speakers of which there can be only 2 settings for a maximum of 7.2.4.
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post #479 of 745 Old 06-26-2016, 03:25 AM
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Thanks! Then I guess I will take the 3050 for now. I know it's possible to use two receivers together to get both prescence and 7.4.4 (well, technically 7.2.4, but I have two subs on each channel, one pair of 12" and one pair of 15") , that has been done before here in Norway, at least with Denon's height speakers. But I will refrain from that, at least until I get a very good deal on a 30X0 for the presence setup.

11.4/7.4.4 Wharfedale E-series, Yamaha RX-A3070, JVC DLA-X500 projector
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post #480 of 745 Old 06-26-2016, 07:18 PM
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Not sure which model to get. Sometime between July 5 & 15 I'm going to be doing one of three things. I'm either going to be picking up Panasonic's TC65AX900 & with Samsung K8500 I currently have a 5.2.4 setup running through a Onkyo TX-NR1030. Originally I was going to buy a 3060 but then I thought I'm never going to go to 11ch as the couch is back against the wall so maybe a 2060 would be all I need. Now I know the tv has no HDR but I've seen this set in action and it's absolutely incredible just like the Sony 950B. I don't want to sacrifice any sound quality. My 1030 has been the best AVR I've owned to date. It's very powerful and my speakers are Cerwin Vega XLS for 5.1 with Polk audio picking up the 4 heights and second sub. The sound I get now blows me away. I'm still not quite sure what I'd be losing by going down to the 2060. The power specs look similar to my 1030. So it's down to this.

Option 1. Get the Panasonic & Samsung spend a little more and get the 3060 even though I will never go 11CH

Option 2. Same as above but go 2060 instead of 3060

Option 3. Get the Panasonic & K8500 and just run it through the Onkyo 1030(I won't run separate cables to the tv & audio to AVR) and hope for the best as the TV doesn't do HDR anyway.


P.S. The guy at the store told me he saw the new Panasonic DX900 when he was in Toronto recently and said its a game changer(why did he have to tell me that) in which case if I feel spending 3X more then for the AX900 I'll most definitely buy one of the new Yamaha's.
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