I have been a Yamaha fan for a long time and over the past couple years have upgraded to a couple of their Aventage receivers. I have a 2020 in my living room and a 1010 in my bedroom. They replaced a RX-V2090/DDP-1 and a RX-V992... (yeah, it's been a while).
After several months of being blown away with all the whizz-bang features and figuring out that I will never use them I find myself missing some really basic features! I have been experimenting with speaker placement and different speakers to get the sound to my tastes. I am SHOCKED that I can't adjust speaker volume levels on the fly. Yes, I went through the YPOA setup and was impressed but after several calibration attempts I found the speaker levels changed significantly depending on which way the calibration microphone is pointed and the volume level the calibration is performed at. Ok, the calibration settings are a great start but a single point microphone is not a suitable analog for my multi-point ears and my subjective opinion on how a movie should sound!
Why do I have to:
1) Stop the movie.
2) Change the input of my TV to the 2020 receiver.
3) Go into the setup.
4) Select the channel from a couple level deep menu.
5) Make a change to an individual channel level.
6) Change the TV input back to what it was on (Netflix)
7) Find my movie and restart it.
8) Listen and evaluate the level change.
9) Repeat until I find the setting I like.
This is LUNACY!!!
On my old receivers if I wanted to change a volume level on a channel there was a button on the remote for it!!! I could hit one button and make a change to a channel level and not interrupt the movie or other movie watchers.
I have loaded the AV app on my Android phone and I have also gone directly to the Receiver web-page. I can not make channel adjustments through either of these without interrupting the movie either!!!!
This is just STUPID!!!! I highly suspect that this isn't a Yamaha specific problem either? I suspect that other manufactures are competing to offer the latest greatest whizz-bang features and also ignoring the most basic of user interface functions?
SECOND GRIPE:
How come I can beam a song directly from my phone or even a radio station from Singapore China over the internet BUT I CAN'T PROGRAM MY RECEIVER TO TURN ON AT 6:30AM IN THE MORNING TO WAKE ME UP? WHAT THE HECK????
Yamaha: Fire your UI team and get some real people to design your UI for real people!!!! I predict your next receivers are going to do away with the main volume buttons on the remote and hide the main volume as a setting 5 menus deep that will also require stopping the movie/tV show/what ever to change the volume!
Why are there so many buttons for those hideous sound contortion settings but nothing for setting surround levels? Look everybody... besides having a receiver that sounds good I can press a single button and make it sound REALLY AWFUL!!! Even my 11 year old daughter thinks the Yamaha sound programs sound awful and winches in pain if a sound program button is pressed accidentally!
In closing: I do like my Yamaha receivers... but their interface short comings are baffling and infuriating! Am I the only one frustrated with poor UI design? --If so feel free to go ahead and blast me for my tirade!
I've owned a LOT of Yamaha receivers (since the early 80's)
and although I don't have the same models you listed...
I have never had an issue adjusting anything "on the fly"
My current RX-A3050 allows any adjustments to be made while any input is active
I just hit "on-screen" to open the GUI and enter the setup menu, manual setup and I have access to everything possible.
I do find it a bit odd that you are ranting over a 4 year old model
as if you just purchased it new today
You shouldn't have to change inputs, just bring up the setup menu. I don't know if your model allows it.
And no receiver ever made is going to have a 'wake up at this time' function. But you know what, if that's what you want, you CAN do it - on your smartphone use something like Tasker to setup a task to turn on the AVR using one of the many remote control apps that can turn it on via network codes.
I guess Yamaha didn't design their AVR's to compete with Kitchen appliances and Bedroom alarm clocks.
Can you tell me which AVR manufactures are better suited to your unique circumstances?
My Yamaha doesn't bring me breakfast in bed or wipe my butt in the bathroom,
hmmm maybe I should start a rant thread since I've only made 26 posts on AVS in the last 4 years.
I watch over the air TV broadcast, Netflix and Plex. All sourcing from my TV. I can not change any channel levels without interrupting what ever I am watching. Maybe this would be different if I had a sattelite or cable box going through the receiver before being displayed on my TV? I am confident that the Yamaha UI in the latest models are not that different than my older models.
I just got a new pair of surround speakers yesterday. I was watching a movie with my family last night and was frustrated that my new surrounds sounded thin even though they are higher quality and fuller range than my old surrounds... and I couldn't bump them up a notch without interrupting everyone's viewing. Today I bumped them up a bit and I am pleased with the new surrounds... but I really miss the surround volume level buttons on my old (ancient) Yamaha gear.
And yes, I have scheduled a job on my windows computer to run at 6:30 in the morning to turn on my amp... but really, I have seen many people looking to do the same thing in researching how to do this so I know I am not the only one that would appreciate this feature. I included this as part of my rant just in case a Yamaha engineer ventures out of his bubble to see what people think of his product on the internet forums.... I can always hope!
I looked long and hard at other receivers before purchasing more Yamaha gear. None of them that I found supported features that I find important... from what I can tell? It is not like I can go into best buy and look through the receivers UI before purchasing. Most AV outlets don't even allow access to the remote so I can see what the TV UI is like before I purchase a TV.
I figure if nobody ever complains about missing UI features and poor UI design... NONE of the companies are ever going to improve!
So this thread is my attempt at improvements in future products! None of the surface reviews I have ever read have ever addressed UI issues of receivers. So I figure someone has to say something if anything is ever going to change!
Thank you for your participation!
P.S. - Refrigerators have internet connections these days.... why can't a receiver have a "turn on time"????? Probably because no one has ever complained that they don't? From a technological standpoint I would bet an "Alarm Clock" function would just be a software implementation and require no additional hardware! Screw all the receiver manufactures! My next refrigerator is going to support Dolby ATMOS, an alarm clock function AND adjusting the surround levels without interrupting the movie!
Why do I have to:
1) Stop the movie.
2) Change the input of my TV to the 2020 receiver.
3) Go into the setup.
4) Select the channel from a couple level deep menu.
5) Make a change to an individual channel level.
6) Change the TV input back to what it was on (Netflix)
7) Find my movie and restart it.
8) Listen and evaluate the level change.
9) Repeat until I find the setting I like.
Seem like if you have all your peripherals plugged into the receiver, you should not need to do that. The menu should pop up on the screen. If everything is plugged into your TV-change it.
The only peripheral I have is a Blueray player... which I haven't used in years! All the movies I watch come from Netflix or my media server (Plex) and are streamed directly to my TV which feeds the Aventage through audio return channel.
...yes the OP needs to first make the correct connections by connecting all components to the "docking station"...the receiver, then go from there to the TV. There is no reason to connect everything to the TV, then jump from TV to the receiver, unless the receiver won't pass anything on to the TV.
Once the system is dialed in, there shouldn't be a reason to boost the surround channels. There's not a whole lot of info coming from the surrounds anyway. This issue makes me think that you need to properly set the receiver up and post how it sounds then.
Smart TVs have some limitations because they lack HDMI outputs. Uncompressed audio is limited to two channels, and on-screen menus don't work.
Regarding the alarm clock, it would probably be better to implement the concept via a smartphone app rather than directly in the receiver. For one thing, your phone has a battery so the alarm would work in a power outage.
If you have a computer you can turn your Yamaha 2020 into an alarm clock. Just write a script to turn on airplay for the unit and steam whatever you want to it.
I don't think you guys understand - I have 3 components: A Smart TV, a receiver and a Blueray player (Which is never used). I have 2 interconnects: a HDMI cable from the Blueray to the Receiver and a HDMI cable from the Receiver to the TV.
When watching TV, Netflix, Plex, or over the air channels I get full 7.1 sound through the "audio return channel" of the HDMI cable between the TV and the receiver. I also have a fiber run between the TV and the Receiver but THIS would only provide 2 channel sound so was abandoned long ago.
The Blueray player hasn't been used in years!!!! Media on physical disks are pretty much obsolete in my household! My TV is the source for all my media... which is why I bought a smart TV.
The TV can either be playing Netflix, Plex, or over the air television OR have the input switched to the receiver so I can change settings.
Am I the only one that uses my Smart TV as my primary source? The sound quality and video artifacts from the local digital cable company are so awful that I gave up on them a long time ago! They compress everything so much to offer their huge number of worthless channels that trying to watch or listen to any of their programming.... I might as well.... hmmm... go back to Dolby pro logic! I am sure I would not hear a difference with programs from my local cable company!
I did just look at my old remote for my Yamaha 2090. It has buttons for rear sound level and center sound level. I pointed it an my RX-A1010 receiver and these buttons do nothing. The only buttons that actually do anything are the input select buttons and those stupid dsp effect select buttons.
No TV I have ever seen has a HDMI out port to send the current video signal out to a receiver so it can be looped through the receiver, through an HDMI out and into a TV HDMI input.
So your source is the tv. Bad idea. Hdmi streaming sticks are $35. And you have arc audio
and optical audio backwards. The optical cable provides the same or better audio than arc.
The option button will bring up a quick volume control of the subwoofer or center channel.
They did remove the quick access to the other channels and most don't miss it.
I tried the Fire Stick, Chromecast and Roku stick. They all sucked! I figured I would upgrade the capabilities of my 5 year old LG smart TV... none of them were AS GOOD as my old TV and I returned each of them! I have a full qwerty keyboard on the back of my smart TV remote that I use to control all my entertainment needs with one easy simple remote without having to jump through a bunch of hoops! I did many generations of the "smart remote" to control all my devices and I am MUCH happier with my simple TV remote that Links to my receiver and Blueray player to control them to. Easy, clean and straight forwards without hours of tweaking the remote programming.
The optical cable provides the same or better audio than arc.
The option button will bring up a quick volume control of the subwoofer or center channel.
They did remove the quick access to the other channels and most don't miss it.
"What we do know is that the bandwidth for S/PDIF Optical and Coax cables is not nearly as high as that of an HDMI cable, and thus if you want the best possible quality, ditch your optical and coax cables for transporting digital audio from your blu-ray player to your amplifier."
S/PDIF is ancient and does not have the bandwidth capability to pass full loss-less 7.1. If you are using optical instead of HDMI you are cutting off the dynamics of your 7.1 receiver.
Using a "TV" as your main hub is your downfall
Maybe you should blame your dumb "smart TV" instead of the receiver?
Most people, at least from my generation, prefer a Real Home Theater with the AVR as the main Hub
with hard disc media for the very Best quality Movies, Music and Gaming with several HDMI players
Bluray, HD-DVD, PS4, XBO, HDTV PVR, SACD, PS3. I even have an old TT for vinyl LP's.
...and I'm close to adding a 4K UHD player to the mix soon as well
Two outputs on my RX-A3050 go to a dumb old 50" Pioneer Kuro plasma and a Projector w/120" screen.
The new gen youngsters seem to prefer freebie digi downloads
and are happy to watch compressed movies on a 5" smart-phone with ear buds
and utilize compressed mp3's for music.
If this is the trend along with streaming,
it could be the death of REAL Home Theater.
So rant all you want because your AVR won't wipe your runny nose
I hope Yamaha is listening/reading and LTFAO !
Using a "TV" as your main hub is your downfall
Maybe you should blame your dumb "smart TV" instead of the receiver?
Most people, at least from my generation, prefer a Real Home Theater with the AVR as the main Hub
with hard disc media for the very Best quality Movies, Music and Gaming with several HDMI players
Bluray, HD-DVD, PS4, XBO, HDTV PVR, SACD, PS3. I even have an old TT for vinyl LP's.
Get out of the dark ages dude!!!! Nobody direct connects a hard drive any more. I have a 20TB SAN running Plex media server which gives me much more capabilities than hard drive, a MUCH nicer interface, PVR functionality, remote streaming any where on the internet and I can access it from any device in my house! All my TV's came with Plex clients. I believe Plex is about to release an upgrade for 4K content.... but maybe your device manufactures will release 4K firmware upgrades?.... LOL! :laugh:
...and I'm close to adding a 4K UHD player to the mix soon as well
Two outputs on my RX-A3050 go to a dumb old 50" Pioneer Kuro plasma and a Projector w/120" screen.
The new gen youngsters seem to prefer freebie digi downloads
and are happy to watch compressed movies on a 5" smart-phone with ear buds
and utilize compressed mp3's for music.
If this is the trend along with streaming,
it could be the death of REAL Home Theater.
So rant all you want because your AVR won't wipe your runny nose
I hope Yamaha is listening/reading and LTFAO !
I am SHOCKED that I can't adjust speaker volume levels on the fly.
On my old receivers if I wanted to change a volume level on a channel there was a button on the remote for it!!! I could hit one button and make a change to a channel level and not interrupt the movie or other movie watchers.
Well, don't be shocked anymore. I have a 2020 and occasionally adjust speaker levels on the fly (usually the subwoofer) without any others in the room being aware it is being done. Just use the Level button on the remote (it's under the flip-up door, one of the bottom right buttons). Use the up/down and left/right cursor keys to make adjustments. (It is explained in the user manual on page 117.) I programmed the Level button into my universal remote.
EXCELLENT!!!! I have thoroughly studied the remote and the manual and completely missed the "Level" button... or forgot about it! It is not as convenient as the separate "Center +", "Center -", "Surround +", "Surround -" on my old Yamaha.... but at least I have this capability now AND I can adjust each channel individually. This will greatly improve my enjoyment of my receivers!
I can not find the level button on my 1010 in the bedroom but having this capability in the living room is huge!!!! Maybe I will ebay the nicer remote for my 1010 if I can find one for cheap.
Of course I did! You don't run YPOA levels without tweaking them do you? YPOA settings are a starting point to get you close so you can fine tune them to your liking. Do you use the default picture settings on your TV too? Do you like those default showroom brightness, contrast and saturation settings?
I agree with the OP.. My Onkyo 818 doesn't let you change the speakers levels on the fly either. Even some simple things were implemented by a monkey. Funny, My old Onkyo 805 can change the speaker levels on the fly. There is a program I use on my phone called MyAV remote. They might have one for Yamaha also.
But honestly.. For the guys that are happy with their receivers.. Awesome! Good for you.. This is 20 freaking 16. You mean to tell me you can't change the colors on your display? If I don't want the Onkyo crappy green, why can't I change it to blue,red,orange ect.. Why? I don't see why there can't be a timer on it that will turn it on when you want it to,why is that such a big deal? Receivers are like a fricken iphone. Every year all the isheep get excited they are going to get something entirely new and what happens.. The same **** every year. OMG.. ios 10 is coming out soon.. And it doesn't do ****.. I used to be an iphone user until I saw the light.. Its the same thing with receivers. Every year these companies come out with new receivers.. Holy ****.. Don't change anything. Don't update the looks ever, come out with the same rehashed **** that they do every year, but lets throw in Atmos and DTS X.. I'd rather have them wait 2-3 yrs to come out with something really new and that looks different. All these companies play it safe.. Just like Hollywood, just like the big companies that own the game studios. Play it safe.. COD 6 coming soon,more rehashed ****.. Board memebers to Devs.. Make sure you leave out half the game so we can sell it as DLC , because the public will go nuts if we try to charge $80-100 for the full game..
I feel your pain!!!!! We should start expecting more out of these manufactures and start calling them on their short comings!
But I LOVE Dolby ATMOS!!!!.... I picked up my RX-A2020 receiver for $350 6 months ago because someone HAD to upgrade to a receiver with ATMOS for which there are only a handful of movies with ATM encoding. This allowed me to move my RX-A1010, which I also picked used in like new condition for pennies, into my bedroom. In a few years I will be able to pick up a better receive with ATMOS for half the price... or a 2016 receiver with ATMOS for pennies.
I honestly expect my next receiver to be something along the lines of a Minidsp to do the sound decoding and a bunch of ancient hi-end Class A amps. I figure my media access will be something along the lines of a Raspberry Pi with a media OS.
The a3050 doesn't have a flip down door on the remote and no level button.
The a2020 does have the flip down door with (speaker) level control.
It is actually shown on page 16 of the manual. P. 117 is the setup menu area.
The manual refers to remote as a3020 so assuming they are both the same.
What a rant...
To top it off, a knowledgable user has read the instructions and proven that much of the OP's issues would have been fixed if they'd bothered to do the same.
But ultimately, the rational among us would like to see a complete absence of clock radio functionality (the equivalent of putting bluetooth on a microwave), instead hoping for AV equipment developers to spend their time (and money) making gear sound better.
Please note, this reply contains no usage of the caps lock button, nor does it contain wording like 'stupid', 'what the heck'... and of course, the favourite of internet heroes everywhere 'I am shocked'.
But ultimately, the rational among us would like to see a complete absence of clock radio functionality (the equivalent of putting bluetooth on a microwave), instead hoping for AV equipment developers to spend their time (and money) making gear sound better.
Actually I studied my Yamaha manuals quite thoroughly... probably more than most. I did study my 1010 manual quite a bit more when I got that receiver which does not have this capability on the remote... and I freely admit I pretty much skimmed the 2020 manual as it was quite repetitive of the 1010 manual. Hey, I have no problem admitting I missed something! And that I was very grateful to have what I missed pointed out to me!
Still blows me away that Yamaha removed this functionality on their Flag-ship 3050 receiver!
Is the sound quality of any of the newer receivers actually improving? To me it looks like they are actually packing on a ton of "features" that I never use and doing nothing to actually improve the sound quality... well maybe the marketing department is working hard at improving the sound quality. My 2020 is a great receiver... but it doesn't sound ANY better to me than my 25 year old 2090 receiver. Neither come close to the old Adcom system I had as far sound quality... they both fall short of the Adcom in the should quality department.
That is why the title of the post has "Rant!!!" in it! Did you miss that part?
... Sorry, the title actually has "RANT!!!" in it, I thought I was pretty clear about what should be expected in the post?
OP refers to YPAO as YPOA.
OP spells Blu-Ray as Blueray.
Here's my rant to you OP, I hate people who tries to rant about every single little thing but cannot spell correctly. It's 2-0-1-6! People cannot differentiate Blu and Blue? Wow!
I'm ranting, deal with it! /s
And on my "second" gripe:
It's people like you who keeps wanting all these bs "wake me up" features that are telling companies like Yamaha, Onkyo, Pioneer, D&M to spend more time implementing nonsense than to actually beef up their hardware components.
I can relate to oughtsix on the alarm clock issue. I have a Denon AVR, which I am quite happy with, but I wanted to use it as an alarm clock and sleep timer (it only comes with a very basic sleep timer, which doesn't fade out the music). So I got one of my colleagues hooked on the idea and we started building an Android app. It is already finished and we are currently beta testing it to make sure it works right. I would actually be really grateful if anyone wants to help us out and test it with their AVR or wireless speaker, because we don't have access to all the brands out there and we cannot be sure it works properly with each of them. If you want to sign up for the beta just go to our website www.sleepcast.me or send me a PM.
Dolby digital plus comes in many bitrates. Anywhere from 1/20 of dd 5.1 to 10 times the
bandwidth of dd. The bitrate of dd+ on disks is too high for optical cables, but internet
streaming sources often use a lower bandwidth form of dd+ that will pass through optical
and arc. The only advantage to arc is one less cable. The masses are falling for it though.
...okay, it's time to reveal the make and model of your speakers, and their position in the room.
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