Emotiva Introduces BasX "Aspiring Audiophile" Components - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 142 Old 04-23-2016, 07:46 PM
 
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I just saw this thread and I must say it's much ado about nothing. Looks like they are reintroducing the UPA line with a name change, I really don't understand why they introduce, then mothball so may lines. I was really surprised that after all of the hoopla over the XPR line they retire it.
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post #62 of 142 Old 04-23-2016, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kevon27 View Post
You need to get a grip on somethings. There will be a LOT of people who just don't care about Atmos/DTS x. At this point, Atmos is like the 3D of a few years ago. 3D was all the rage, everyone had to have 3D this and 3D that.
Since its release, there are only a handful of Atmos titles, not enough to justify going through the hassle of doing more than a 5.1/7.1 speaker arrangement.

Also, there are people who just don't have the space to add more speakers. Believe it or not a well built 5.1 and 7.1 system can immerse you in sound.
We have a generation who just seems to love jumping on the "the next big thing" bandwagon.
I disagree with your comparison between 3D and Atmos/DTS-X. I think far more people will be interested in the new audio formats and stay interested than they would be with 3D. I bought a new 60" plasma and an Oppo player with 3D capability several years ago. I've never watched a 3D movie as I have no interest in it and don't have any 3D glasses. I agree that one can have an immersive system with a 5.1/7.1 system.

I find it interesting that when it was thought that the XMC-1 would not have Atmos/DTS-X capability some over at the Lounge said it wasn't needed and just a "gimmick". Now that it looks like the XMC-1 will have the capability there seems to be a change of heart over at the Lounge . I have no interest at this time in Atmos/DTS-X as 5.2 is fine for me in my room. If I had a larger room I'd definitely be interested in Atmos/DTS-X. But no matter the size of my room I'll have no interest in 3D. With the option to have Atmos/DTS-X capability it will increase interest in the XMC-1 and show it is not obsolete. If in fact there "will be a LOT of people who just don't care about Atmos/DTS-X" then why would Emotiva go to the effort to offer it?

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post #63 of 142 Old 04-23-2016, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
I just saw this thread and I must say it's much ado about nothing. Looks like they are reintroducing the UPA line with a name change, I really don't understand why they introduce, then mothball so may lines. I was really surprised that after all of the hoopla over the XPR line they retire it.
I agree 100%.

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post #64 of 142 Old 04-23-2016, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
I just saw this thread and I must say it's much ado about nothing. Looks like they are reintroducing the UPA line with a name change, I really don't understand why they introduce, then mothball so may lines. I was really surprised that after all of the hoopla over the XPR line they retire it.
I can understand Emotiva shifting away from the XPR line. They're big and costly to build and most people don't need that kinda power. The XPA Gen 3 is a smart move. Going with a switching power supply and modular design brings cost for manufacturing, warranty repairs, shipping.

Ermersa can be considered the new UPA line (mid level) and the BasX is the entry level system.

Going back to Atmos/DTS X. We have to remember, Emotiva is a small company compared to the Marantz, Yamaha and Onkyo brands. Emotiva does not have the R&D budget the quickly implement new technology as they come out like the brands I mentioned.
For Emotiva, getting a 7.1 system right seems to be more important. As time goes on and if Atmos becomes the thing everyone wants because the content is there, then we'll see an Atmos system from them.

Emotiva does not compete in the high dollar space as Krell or Classe and they have design Amps and Processors that are priced to compete with the $1000 - $3000 receiver from the big guys.
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post #65 of 142 Old 04-23-2016, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by kevon27 View Post

Emotiva does not compete in the high dollar space as Krell or Classe and they have design Amps and Processors that are priced to compete with the $1000 - $3000 receiver from the big guys.
For pre-pro, Emotiva does not compete with anything at all. Under performing, over promising, buggy. Just stick with power amps!

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post #66 of 142 Old 04-23-2016, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by kevon27 View Post
IGoing back to Atmos/DTS X. We have to remember, Emotiva is a small company compared to the Marantz, Yamaha and Onkyo brands. Emotiva does not have the R&D budget the quickly implement new technology as they come out like the brands I mentioned.
For Emotiva, getting a 7.1 system right seems to be more important. As time goes on and if Atmos becomes the thing everyone wants because the content is there, then we'll see an Atmos system from them.
I think it's fairly common knowledge that Emotiva doesn't have the R&D resources of the big companies. No big mystery there. I would hope Emotiva can get a 7.1 system right as that technology or format has been around for many years. Emotiva has been talking about their flagship processor RMC-1/XMR-1 for quite some time and it will have Atmos/DTS-X capability. So it's not a case of if it'll happen but when. Atmos/DTS-X is already becoming the "thing" that many want and Emotiva is well aware of that fact.

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post #67 of 142 Old 04-23-2016, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
For pre-pro, Emotiva does not compete with anything at all. Under performing, over promising, buggy. Just stick with power amps!
I never owned an Emotiva processor only amps so I can't comment on performance. Maybe they should do what Outlaw did. Bring out an affordable (stable) processor ($600 or less) and sell other brands higher end Processors like the CX5100 or 8802.

They can even go into the rebranding business. Take a CX5100, get rid of Ypao, use Dirac and put it into an Emotiva styled chassis.
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post #68 of 142 Old 04-23-2016, 11:53 PM
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actually xpa g3 looks more similar to xpr than xpa g2, but with less output transistors. annoyingly i cant post links...

emersa falls between two stones, roughly the same power as basX at a higher price. being icepower they will sound pretty different, not everybody likes them.
all they need is cables, so i dont know whats with the holdup, apparently emotiva are developing a super advanced input buffer
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post #69 of 142 Old 04-24-2016, 06:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kevon27 View Post
You need to get a grip on somethings. There will be a LOT of people who just don't care about Atmos/DTS x. At this point, Atmos is like the 3D of a few years ago. 3D was all the rage, everyone had to have 3D this and 3D that.
Since its release, there are only a handful of Atmos titles, not enough to justify going through the hassle of doing more than a 5.1/7.1 speaker arrangement.

Also, there are people who just don't have the space to add more speakers. Believe it or not a well built 5.1 and 7.1 system can immerse you in sound.
We have a generation who just seems to love jumping on the "the next big thing" bandwagon.
I don't really believe for one second that audio quality on channel-based 7.1 has improved all that much in the past five years to warrant upgrading or replacing any number of cheap receivers for this.

Object oriented codecs are really to my mind the only reason to upgrade ones' AVR, aside from maybe getting HDMI 2 inputs.
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post #70 of 142 Old 04-24-2016, 06:41 AM
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They've always been behind when it comes to implementing the latest audio codecs. I'm not sure they like licensing stuff from Dolby or DTS: I went through a whole user manual to find mentions of the multichannel decoding abilities of one of their receivers (or preamps, I don't remember) and I couldn't fiond any mentions of Dolby or DTS.
well I'm sure it's expensive to license the use of those codecs, which is porbably the primary reason, along with the rate of R&D of a small company like emotiva compared to large ones like denon and onkyo
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post #71 of 142 Old 04-24-2016, 07:12 AM
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It can not be THAT expensive when $500 receivers can do it yet their $500 prepro (read: no 7-ch amp) can't. The cost savings in the use of smaller transformer and no amp section should be more than enough to cover the new codecs...especially when they sell direct to customers.
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post #72 of 142 Old 04-24-2016, 08:36 AM
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emersa falls between two stones, roughly the same power as basX at a higher price. being icepower they will sound pretty different, not everybody likes them.
What makes you write that? Do you assume Emotiva is incompetent at developing AB amplifiers that are transparent, or that Emotiva cannot design input buffers for Icepower modules?

I own a couple great AB amps and a few amps based around ASX2-gen Icepower. They sound identical. I've also played with a bare 125ASX2 board and no buffer. That sounded different.
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im saying its something else entirely, and it somewhat overlaps the other line.
the only designwork they have in emersa is a buffer and the box. they officially announced them in september, and so far zippo.
iv also had a few icepowers, they are not everybodys cup of tea.. but they are well made (the people behind them were headhuntet i belive) and emotiva wouldnt be able to design anything like that in a billion years! only a few months ago Keith said class D amps were literally "digital", quite a funny statement. putting together an AB amplifier is not that complicated if you have chinese manufacturing connections etc. must be why they keep failing in the processor field
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i
iv also had a few icepowers, they are not everybodys cup of tea..


They're not a cup of tea. They're just an amplifier design that doesn't have a sound if implemented properly.

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post #75 of 142 Old 04-25-2016, 12:12 PM
 
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I can understand Emotiva shifting away from the XPR line. They're big and costly to build and most people don't need that kinda power. The XPA Gen 3 is a smart move. Going with a switching power supply and modular design brings cost for manufacturing, warranty repairs, shipping.

Ermersa can be considered the new UPA line (mid level) and the BasX is the entry level system.

...
Yes, I'm sure it's pretty obvious why Emotiva "shifted" away from the XPR line, but therein lies the rub. Simple market research would have told them there's no demand for 5-600 wpc amps that outweigh boat anchors. Heck, just analyzing the market place and the various competitors would have told them that there's not much demand for such amps. But they spent the R&D anyway, and brought them to market, only to fold their tents as they've done with many other products and lines. This spit ball method is strickly bush league and none of the big players waste money like this. They really need a marketing team, or at least someone who's savvy enough to guide them a little more smartly.
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post #76 of 142 Old 04-25-2016, 03:25 PM
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Yes, I'm sure it's pretty obvious why Emotiva "shifted" away from the XPR line, but therein lies the rub. Simple market research would have told them there's no demand for 5-600 wpc amps that outweigh boat anchors. Heck, just analyzing the market place and the various competitors would have told them that there's not much demand for such amps. But they spent the R&D anyway, and brought them to market, only to fold their tents as they've done with many other products and lines. This spit ball method is strickly bush league and none of the big players waste money like this. They really need a marketing team, or at least someone who's savvy enough to guide them a little more smartly.
I agree 100%.

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post #77 of 142 Old 04-27-2016, 02:28 PM
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There were some posts on the Emotiva message boards from people at Axpona saying the whole Emersa lineup is still 6 months out. People were upset, and Dan posted something like "this is why we keep stuff close to the vest" rather than debunking the 6 month claim, so I figure it's accurate.
Then why are they issuing all these press releases?
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Then why are they issuing all these press releases?
I get the impression they are excited to talk about new things, but reluctant to commit to actual release dates and risk disappointing people. Personally I would rather see them announce gear and having it available for pre-order + shipping within a month or two maximum, but oh well. I guess their current practice works... I mean if they hadn't announced the EMP-1 back in December, I'd have purchased a Denon receiver to replace my dying Pioneer SC-05 and been done with it. Instead I'm impatiently waiting... bad for me, good for them.
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Emotiva is a company that is well known for its affordable high-performance audio products. Its new BasX (pronounced basics) line of audio components—including multi-zone amps plus stereo preamp/tuners—is engineered to work together and be easy to operate.



Emotiva's president and founder, Dan Laufman, says "A central part of Emotiva’s mission has been making it easy to explore and enjoy high-end audio technology that is affordable and a no-brainer to use." Dan continues by noting that "We consider BasX a real breakthrough in terms of delivering audiophile power and performance at price points that allow a far larger segment of the market to enjoy high-end audio."

BasX amplifiers use hefty toroidal power supplies feature Class A/B output stages. The line currently consists of four power amplifiers offering a selection of output power levels and between two to eight channels. BasX components are available to purchase directly from Emotiva and through authorized dealers.

BasX Product Selection

PT-100 preamp/tuner ($300)

The PT-100 features an FM tuner plus digital and analog inputs. It includes a phono preamp compatible with moving magnet and moving coil cartridges, a driver-free USB input with 24/96k PCM support, and an optional Bluetooth module. It features a bright front-panel display and all controls can be accessed from the front panel or by using the included remote.

IA-100 tuner/amplifier ($400)

This unit includes all of the features of the PT-100 and adds 50-watt per channel (RMS) stereo amplification.

A-100 ($200) integrated amp

This compact, powerful, and high-fidelity integrated amp takes up only 1/2 rack width of space. Emotiva suggests it is "ideal for pairing with a small stereo system." The A-100 is also useful when deployed as a supplemental amp for larger systems. Features include automatic turn-on, volume control, and a headphone jack that allow it to drive power-hungry cans.

A-150, A-300, A-500, A-700 amplifiers

These power amplifiers feature heavy-duty power supplies, audiophile-quality Class A/B output for each channel, fault protection, front-panel status indicators, robust speaker terminals, a trigger input and output, and high-quality construction.

- A-150 ($300): two channels with 75 watts RMS/channel into 8 ohms
- A-300 ($400): two channels with 150 watts RMS/channel into 8 ohms
- A-500 ($500): five channels with 100 watts RMS/channel into 8 ohms
- A-700 ($600): seven channels with 100 watts RMS/channel into 8 ohms

A-800 ($600) amplifier

This is an 8-channel amp that—like its BasX siblings—features a heavy-duty power supply, class A/B output, robust build quality, fault protection, status indicators on the front panel, etc. The A-800 has discrete inputs for each channel and an input bus for use in multi-zone and multi-room systems. Output is 50 watts RMS/channel into 8 ohms and channel pairs are bridgeable to 100 watts.

MC-700 ($600) AV pre/pro

This is a 7.1-channel AV pre/pro with HDMI 2.0 and Emo-Q room correction. It sports dual-core 32-bit DSP engines and handles all HD audio.

There are five HDMI 2.0 inputs that all support HDCP 2.2. The MC-700 has programmable parametric EQ available on all channels, as well as a pure analog bypass mode. It includes 7.1 analog audio inputs and USB audio support.
I'd like to find out more about the A-700, its weight and if it is going the follow the design of the XPA Gen 3 series switching power supplies....
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post #80 of 142 Old 04-28-2016, 01:00 PM
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If they offered Atmos I would be down for one. In 2016 I am not buying anything that doesn't have the latest codecs. I will likely still get a 700, that is an incredible value. But will have to shop somewhere else for the processor.
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post #81 of 142 Old 04-28-2016, 01:01 PM
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Then why are they issuing all these press releases?
I firmly believe that Emotiva announces products with no firm release dates to get people hooked on the announced components. I saw it big time when they announced the UMC-1 a few years ago. People were posting on the Lounge that they were selling their current processors in order to buy the UMC-1. Well the UMC-1 was delayed again and again with many people without processors. My guess is that Emotiva feels the need to "dangle the carrot" so possible customers won't buy something else. Of course this is just my opinion .

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I get the impression they are excited to talk about new things, but reluctant to commit to actual release dates and risk disappointing people. Personally I would rather see them announce gear and having it available for pre-order + shipping within a month or two maximum, but oh well. I guess their current practice works... I mean if they hadn't announced the EMP-1 back in December, I'd have purchased a Denon receiver to replace my dying Pioneer SC-05 and been done with it. Instead I'm impatiently waiting... bad for me, good for them.
Their current practice really doesn't work IMO. I guess my assumption is true as you're not buying the Denon and will wait for the EMP-1. I hope you're a patient person .

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post #82 of 142 Old 04-30-2016, 10:29 AM
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For pre-pro, Emotiva does not compete with anything at all. Under performing, over promising, buggy. Just stick with power amps!
And you have of course heard the XMC-1 and compared it to similar offerings from Marantz and Yamaha.

So much Emotiva bashing, yawn yawn.
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post #83 of 142 Old 04-30-2016, 10:38 AM
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LOL!! Of course I have. I calibrate and design AV for both home and commercial spaces for a living. From the five clients using XMC-1 users, three of them have changed to Marantz 8802 and one moved to Yamaha CX-A5000... All within 6 months after their XMC-1 purchase (and no, I'm not a dealer, I don't sell anything).

If they are THAT good, no one will upgrade to another pro-pro within 6 month, no?
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post #84 of 142 Old 04-30-2016, 10:49 AM
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Each to their own I suppose. Couldn't imagine using XT32 or YPAO . IF you design rooms for a living I guess you do all the acoustic treatments etc so eq is not so much needed. Or have other solutions at your disposal.

I agree the UMC-1 was buggy but it sounded good. I don't get any issues here with XMC-1 though, so I guess I am either lucky or they have improved things over time.
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post #85 of 142 Old 04-30-2016, 11:10 AM
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I don't use built in auto cal system. I absolutely abhor YPAO. It's as useless as an ice cube in the middle of a snow storm.

And yes, I start with the room acoustics and only do minor teeaks using 33 1/3 octave GEQ for every channel and PEQ for subs.

My clients' biggest problem with Emotiva is always the HDMI stability

They still ise the Emotiva power amps though. Those things are solid!
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post #86 of 142 Old 05-09-2016, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

They still ise the Emotiva power amps though. Those things are solid!
unless you got the ones with chinese "seacon" capacitors. considered complete garbage on technical forums, and can fail only within 2-3years. clearly emotiva realizes that most customers will replace their unit before that timeframe (or not use it everyday), and the money saved on each in production overweighs return hassle. especially in some countries overseas, where return shipping from an individual will be huge for a 20kg piece of equipment.
the only thing that wears out in a simple poweramp is capacitors and relays, good ones last 20years.
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post #87 of 142 Old 05-09-2016, 02:02 PM
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Emotiva is only worth buying if you're in the US. If not, the potential cost of shipping the product if there is anything wrong with it cancels out all the savings in buying Emotiva products
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post #88 of 142 Old 05-10-2016, 12:50 AM
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Emotiva is only worth buying if you're in the US. If not, the potential cost of shipping the product if there is anything wrong with it cancels out all the savings in buying Emotiva products
I have to disagree since I bought many devices over the last 6-odd years. Among these were the UMC-1 (final run) and XMC-1 (just before price went up) and I never had any issues, save for a XPR-5 which arrived with it's packaging damaged (amp was fine). Maybe I was lucky. Plus there happens to be a Emotiva repair shop somewhere near Amsterdam, so I've heard...

A deciding factor for me however is the currency rate! Last year, the Euro was only worth 1.05 USD at some point. A year earlier, it peaked up to 1.40 USD.

It's the room, stupid!
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post #89 of 142 Old 05-10-2016, 01:02 AM
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With the option of only 2 speakers up top don't waste your money. There are only 7 channels to work with (ex the subs), 5.x.2 isn't going to be worth what the upgrade will cost you. Of course there is the Dan factor - so maybe the new unit will be out before the upgrade is made available - didn't they promise the HDMI/HDCP upgrade by now? Over promise and under deliver - that's big Dan. Add me to the list of those who wish they had kept making very good, reasonably priced amps. The ones I own are great.
FYI, the promise for the XMC-1 upgrade is 7.2.2 / 5.2.4 using the REC output. Still a compromise as 7.2.4 is where it gests interesting IMO, but fine if the room is not suitable for 7.1, like my current living room.

But I will wait to saw 4 holes in my drywall ceiling until the modified processor arrives.

It's the room, stupid!
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post #90 of 142 Old 05-10-2016, 05:54 AM
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FYI, the promise for the XMC-1 upgrade is 7.2.2 / 5.2.4 using the REC output. Still a compromise as 7.2.4 is where it gests interesting IMO, but fine if the room is not suitable for 7.1, like my current living room.

But I will wait to saw 4 holes in my drywall ceiling until the modified processor arrives.
Couldn't agree more on the holes Lonnie and others at the Lounge have been all over the place regarding the immersive upgrade. Does anyone really know what the plan is? I hope owners of the XMC-1 get it, since we all know that Emo tends to over promise and under deliver when it comes to their processors/upgrades. Curious how all of this is going to work in the end, you have the issue with Dirac being limited to only 8 channels, so you'd lose the benefits of an excellent room correction system for at least two of your speakers assuming its greater then 5.x.2. All of this is speculation until more details are known. Given the issues Emo had getting the XMC ready for release, I am skeptical that they can make this upgrade happen in a timely manner. Still waiting on the HDMI board upgrade to be made available to owners.

All of this is why I stick to buying the products they do best - amps - and watch from the sidelines for others like their pre-amps. Not in the market for powered speakers since I use an mini x to drive some speakers for my work system.

There is no perfect display, quit looking for faults and enjoy

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