The "OFFICIAL" 2016 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ - Page 290 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8671 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
Yes, I found the manual useless almost for explanations of what you can do with speakers.
First, you will start with 11.1 speakers
Then, you will choose 5 + SB for the floor speakers
Then, you will choose 4 Atmos, I didn't check for all the possible Atmos configs
Lastly, you will assign what you want for preouts. I didn't go through the options, but front was either the first or 2nd choice. In any case, the preouts are always live, from my understanding, no matter how you assign the amps. There are speaker outputs for all 11 speakers, even though you can only actually use 9 of them at once.
I was always told that the 4300 can only operate in 7.2.4 with an amp for the additional height channels. I just purchased a 6300 over a 4300 for the reason I want to use an exteranal amp for the 7-main channels and use the internal amps for the 4-height channels.

This is news to me. I agree trying to understand the capabilities from the manual is maddening.

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post #8672 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kjack99 View Post
What are your opinions on HEOS 1 speaker?
The HEOS HS2 speakers are all high fidelity (ie. 24bit/192kHz) Wifi/Bluetooth capable with the HEOS 1 specifically featuring humidity protection so it can be placed in a bathroom. I use mine in our Guest room as well as taking it outside along with the Go Pack power pack which powers the speaker (only available for the HEOS 1) up to 6 hours on a full charge.
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post #8673 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknow****a View Post
I was always told that the 4300 can only operate in 7.2.4 with an amp for the additional height channels. I just purchased a 6300 over a 4300 for the reason I want to use an exteranal amp for the 7-main channels and use the internal amps for the 4-height channels.

This is news to me. I agree trying to understand the capabilities from the manual is maddening.
Guess it pays to speak to knowledgeable sales people.

The ability to power either the Front or Height speakers to add 2CH has been the case for the past 4 years on the X4000W series models.
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post #8674 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 09:25 AM
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Just ordered a Heos 1 HS2 speaker to try out for the bathroom! (X4300H)


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Denon X4300H * Def Tech BP8080st front L/R * Def Tech CLR2002 center * Def Tech ProMonitor 800 surrounds (x4) * Hsu VTF-3 MK5 HP sub * Outlaw OAW4 wireless sub kit * Vizio 60" 4K HDRtv * Sony UBP-X800 Bluray * PS4 * AC Infinity S9 AVR fan
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post #8675 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 09:37 AM
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I am tempted by the recent sales for the x4300h. I have a NAD 775HD in my theater room and a NAD T763 in my living room. Love the sound out of both of them. The one caveat with the T763 is that it is pre hdmi. But it does have main-in so that I can use it as just an amp. The T775 is great but it only has hdmi 1.4 and audyssey xt not xt32. I really love them for the music. I love listening to music as well and it is important to me. I am afraid that the denon may not be an effective replacement but I was thinking of trying it out and may be even using the nad t763 as an external amp. So I could move my T775HD to the living room and move the t763 to the theater room to be an external amp to the denon. I have JBL 590 for LCR, Volt 6 for surrounds. I might be adding atmos channels soon.


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post #8676 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Expanding the X4300H from 9CH --> 11CH

When expanding the X4300H from 9CH --> 11CH, the most cost effective solution is to purchase a smaller amp (eg. 50W AudioSource Amp100VS2) or repurpose an existing AVR that you are replacing to power the 2nd set of Height speakers. Another option for much higher cost is to purchase a much more powerful amp (eg. 300W Emotiva XPA-2) and power the Front L/R speakers. Note that the "Pre-out" setting only identifies which 2CH are being used to expand the AVR from 9CH --> 11CH. You can choose to externally power as many more speakers as you prefer (eg. using a 3CH or 5CH amp). In fact you could treat the AVR as a pre-pro and externally power every speaker if you wish.

50W, 12 lb solution
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...2C74241PTYPSTE

300W, 35 lb solution
https://www.amazon.com/Emotiva-Audio...p_ob_title_def


Connection:
a. A set of RCA cables would be used to connect either the Front L/R or Height2 L/R pre-outs (depending on amp selected) on the back of the X4300H to the L/R inputs on the external amp.
b. If using the AudioSource Amp100VS, connect to the MAIN/Line 2 inputs.
c. If using an old AVR, you would connect from the X4300H pre-outs to one of the stereo analog audio inputs (eg. CD) of the old AVR and then connect the speakers to the Front L/R speaker posts on the old AVR.

Ensure all amps are powered off when making cable/speaker wire connections.

Volume:
If the external amp/AVR has a volume knob, set it to at least 80% of maximum.

Setting:
If using a set of stereo analog audio inputs on the old AVR, set it to DIRECT sound mode and select that source, otherwise, if the old AVR has multi analog inputs, connect to the FL/FR inputs and select the multi analog audio source input (eg. 7.1 CH IN).

Once the amp and speakers are connected, and the amp is powered on, run Audyssey again to add these new speakers into your setup using the following AMP ASSIGN setting:

If the external amp is used for the Height 2 speakers:

Assign Mode: 11.1
Floor
- Layout
: 5ch & SB
Height
– Height Sp
: 4ch
- Layout: Front Height + Rear Height (or whatever 2 settings are available that you want to use)
- Pre-out: Height2


If the external amp is used for the Front L/R speakers:

Assign Mode: 11.1
Floor
- Layout
: 5ch & SB
Height
– Height Sp
: 4ch
- Layout: Front Height + Rear Height (or whatever 2 settings are available that you want to use)
- Pre-out: Front


Note: If you want to use the same configuration for all three audio formats (ie. Atmos, DTS:X, and Auro 3D), you'll want to use "Front Height + Rear Height."
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post #8677 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Guess it pays to speak to knowledgeable sales people.

The ability to power either the Front or Height speakers to add 2CH has been the case for the past 4 years on the X4000W series models.
I can still return the 6300. I haven't unboxed it yet. So just to be fully accurate I can run 7.2.4 with the 4300 amps only powering the 4 height channels? If that's the case I don't think I would be pushing the 4300 amps too hard if they are only powering 4 ceiling speakers.

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post #8678 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post
I am tempted by the recent sales for the x4300h. I have a NAD 775HD in my theater room and a NAD T763 in my living room. Love the sound out of both of them. The one caveat with the T763 is that it is pre hdmi. But it does have main-in so that I can use it as just an amp. The T775 is great but it only has hdmi 1.4 and audyssey xt not xt32. I really love them for the music. I love listening to music as well and it is important to me. I am afraid that the denon may not be an effective replacement but I was thinking of trying it out and may be even using the nad t763 as an external amp. So I could move my T775HD to the living room and move the t763 to the theater room to be an external amp to the denon. I have JBL 590 for LCR, Volt 6 for surrounds. I might be adding atmos channels soon.


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Buy it from Crutchfield, they have 60 day, $10 returns. Plus, they have the best web site of anywhere.

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post #8679 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknow****a View Post
I can still return the 6300. I haven't unboxed it yet. So just to be fully accurate I can run 7.2.4 with the 4300 amps only powering the 4 height channels? If that's the case I don't think I would be pushing the 4300 amps too hard if they are only powering 4 ceiling speakers.
Correct on both counts.
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post #8680 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Toknow****a View Post
I can still return the 6300. I haven't unboxed it yet. So just to be fully accurate I can run 7.2.4 with the 4300 amps only powering the 4 height channels?
Correct.

You don't explicitly tell it "use front amps for heights", but rather you tell it "use preamp outputs for fronts" and it internally reconnects the amps that would have been used for the front speakers to a different pair of speaker posts.
Quote:
If that's the case I don't think I would be pushing the 4300 amps too hard if they are only powering 4 ceiling speakers.
That's correct.

The Atmos spec does allow the sound mixer to send full-range full-amplitude sounds to the overhead speakers, but that doesn't happen all that often. Even so, raising the crossover frequency (as has to be done for most in-ceiling speaker designs) redistributes the low frequencies to the subwoofer, offloading the receiver's amps just that much more.
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post #8681 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The HEOS HS2 speakers are all high fidelity (ie. 24bit/192kHz) Wifi/Bluetooth capable with the HEOS 1 specifically featuring humidity protection so it can be placed in a bathroom. I use mine in our Guest room as well as taking it outside along with the Go Pack power pack which powers the speaker (only available for the HEOS 1) up to 6 hours on a full charge.
Thanks.. For the info on bathroom usage.. Might have to get 2 now for $100 each refurbished


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post #8682 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Correct.

You don't explicitly tell it "use front amps for heights", but rather you tell it "use preamp outputs for fronts" and it internally reconnects the amps that would have been used for the front speakers to a different pair of speaker posts.

That's correct.

The Atmos spec does allow the sound mixer to send full-range full-amplitude sounds to the overhead speakers, but that doesn't happen all that often. Even so, raising the crossover frequency (as has to be done for most in-ceiling speaker designs) redistributes the low frequencies to the subwoofer, offloading the receiver's amps just that much more.
Thanks for the info guys. I guess I should have done a little research but when I saw the 6300 drop I jumped. It was a planned impulse buy . I have been going back and forth on how to go to 7.2.4.

Currently running a 7.2 system with an Onkyo TX-NR3008. I know the Denon is rated the same power wise but I just had reservations going from a unit with a THX Ultra2 certified amp section that weighs 50lbs. to a unit that's 20lbs less and using the internal amps to run an additional 4 speakers.

With the current deals on the 4300, you can easily get a capable amp for at least your main LCR array to do the heavy lifting and still come out ahead plus this gives me a little extra budget on getting the 4-ceiling speakers. Any reccommendations?

I am currently running the following:
Def Tech SM65 - LCR array
Def Tech SR8080 - Sides
Def Tech PM100MKII - Rears

I was thinking of going with 4- RSL C34E or would I be better off going with the Def Tech DI6.5R that have an aimable tweeter?

Any amp suggestions? I was thinking the Outlaw 7140 or the Monolith 7.

Thanks

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post #8683 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Yup. Switch to a trial (if possible) TuneIn premium membership to ensure your use case is possible.
Unfortunately I tested this last night by signing up for a trial membershi and apparently certain premium stations are not listed when searching and browsing from Heos as I couldn't see the premium channels.
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post #8684 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
Buy it from Crutchfield, they have 60 day, $10 returns. Plus, they have the best web site of anywhere.

I took the plunge! Ordered from abt.com.


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post #8685 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 02:08 PM
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Are there any tell-tail signs that a Denon receiver may have been factory refurbished?

I recently picked up an X3300W for a great price as it was a "factory refurb". I'll be damned if the thing doesn't look 100% completely brand new. There are no signs at all that it had ever been turned on after leaving the factory initially. Perhaps someone bought it, changed their mind, and returned it unopened? It's not a big deal at all as it looks and works great, I'm mainly just curious.
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post #8686 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 02:41 PM
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Any ideas why I can't get sound from the front headphone jack (4300H)?

Headphones are beyerdynamic DT770 pros (250 ohm)
Using HDMI passthrough ... is this the problem?
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post #8687 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 03:23 PM
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No price talk or where to buy

AVS does not allow "street price" discussions, as well as where to buy in the reg forum....which includes owner's threads.

We have provided a sticky thread for those types of discussions, recommendations or questions. You'll find it at the top of the forum.

Thanks for your understanding.

Below are the two links located at the top of the forum

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...ls-sticky.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...ls-thread.html
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post #8688 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 04:32 PM
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X4300H external amplifier questions?

My current 7.1 speaker setup is (including sensitivity, recommended amplifier power):

FL+FR: Energy V2.4 (90dB, 250W)
C: Energy V2.0C (89dB, 150W)
SL+SR: Energy V2.2 (89dB, 150W)
SBL+SBR: Energy V2.0R (89dB, 100W)
SW: Velodyne FSX-12 (120W internal AB amplifier)

I'll be adding height speakers and looking for an external amp. Amplifier weight and heat would be slight drawbacks, but longevity is more important.

Here are external amplifiers I'm considering:

7-channel for non-height speakers:
- 200W Monoprice Monolith 7
- 200W Emotiva XPA-7 Gen 3

5-channel for FL+FR+C+SL+SR:
- 200W Monoprice Monolith 5
- 250W Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 3
- 125W Emotiva BasX 5175

3-channel for FL+FR+C:
- 200W Monoprice Monolith 3
- 275W Emotiva XPA-3 Gen 3

2-channel for FL+FR:
- 200W Monoprice Monolith 2
- 300W Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 3
- 150W Emotiva BasX A-300

My Onkyo TX-NR3010 receiver was calibrated to 75dB. My maximum comfortable listening level for movies was about -10dB.

Questions:

1. For my listening levels, is 200W per channel overkill?

2. For my listening levels, is 7x200W likely to overload my 15A circuit? I can place the external amp on a separate 15A circuit, if recommended.

3. With the different design and lower weight, would the XPA Gen 3 consume less power or run any cooler than the Monolith?

4. (noob) If you're using external amplifiers, does the receiver consume less electricity due to the unused internal amplifiers?

5. Other external amp suggestions below $2,000?

Last edited by alooffool; 08-18-2017 at 04:40 PM. Reason: corrected specification
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post #8689 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alooffool View Post
(snip)
2. For my listening levels, is 7x200W likely to overload my 15A circuit? I can place the external amp on a separate 15A circuit, if recommended.
(snip)
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7700.html

I don't know how similar this amp may be to the ones you're considering, but it is specified at a maximum power draw of 1800W. A 15A circuit would be inadequate for that.

My guess is that you're going over the top with power amps, but I don't have the experience to guide you in that.

Maybe you should just set things up with the 4300, and see whether it plays loud enough for you.
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post #8690 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 07:43 PM
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Can the 4300 remote be used to control the PS4, if so how?

Sorry if this has already been asked.
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post #8691 of 17246 Old 08-18-2017, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknow****a View Post

I was thinking of going with 4- RSL C34E or would I be better off going with the Def Tech DI6.5R that have an aimable tweeter?
I believe the RSL has tweeters that pivot if I'm not mistaken. That's my recommend for the money.

Quote:
Any amp suggestions? I was thinking the Outlaw 7140 or the Monolith 7.

Thanks
Either would work great and be solid buys. I have an Outlaw 5000 currently and love it but the Monolith is a real winner spec wise as well. I'd get whichever is cheapest to be honest.

Chane A5 towers,Chane A2.4 center,RBH bipole side surrounds, Rythmik LV12R x2,Denon X4300H, Outlaw 5000,Front B speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 books. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...d-part-ii.html
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post #8692 of 17246 Old 08-19-2017, 02:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftheaded View Post
Any ideas why I can't get sound from the front headphone jack (4300H)?

Headphones are beyerdynamic DT770 pros (250 ohm)
Using HDMI passthrough ... is this the problem?
The AVR must be powered ON for the audio to pass to the headphones or surround speakers.
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post #8693 of 17246 Old 08-19-2017, 02:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheels_23 View Post
Can the 4300 remote be used to control the PS4, if so how?

Sorry if this has already been asked.
AFAIK, no, but you may be interested in the following article ---> https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2478518,00.asp
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post #8694 of 17246 Old 08-19-2017, 02:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alooffool View Post
X4300H external amplifier questions?

My current 7.1 speaker setup is (including sensitivity, recommended amplifier power):

FL+FR: Energy V2.4 (90dB, 250W)
C: Energy V2.0C (89dB, 150W)
SL+SR: Energy V2.2 (89dB, 150W)
SBL+SBR: Energy V2.0R (89dB, 100W)
SW: Velodyne FSX-12 (120W internal AB amplifier)

I'll be adding height speakers and looking for an external amp. Amplifier weight and heat would be slight drawbacks, but longevity is more important.
All of your amp considerations are overkill. Your speakers are moderately efficient such that for your desired volume level, all you would likely require is a 50W, 2CH amp (eg. AudioSource Amp100VS) to power the Rear Height speakers.
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post #8695 of 17246 Old 08-19-2017, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
All of your amp considerations are overkill. Your speakers are moderately efficient such that for your desired volume level, all you would likely require is a 50W, 2CH amp (eg. AudioSource Amp100VS).


I have heard some folks here mention that even with sensitive speakers they noticed a much better sound quality after adding a powerful external amp. I have never experienced one myself so cannot assess accuracy of the statement.

Personally I would save that money and upgrade a AVR in 2 years again with all the new features being added every year.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #8696 of 17246 Old 08-19-2017, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I have heard some folks here mention that even with sensitive speakers they noticed a much better sound quality after adding a powerful external amp. I have never experienced one myself so cannot assess accuracy of the statement.

Personally I would save that money and upgrade a AVR in 2 years again with all the new features being added every year.


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You'll also notice an equal number who said there was no difference whatsoever. It's your money. Add the amp you prefer and decide for yourself.
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post #8697 of 17246 Old 08-19-2017, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7700.html

I don't know how similar this amp may be to the ones you're considering, but it is specified at a maximum power draw of 1800W. A 15A circuit would be inadequate for that.

My guess is that you're going over the top with power amps, but I don't have the experience to guide you in that.

Maybe you should just set things up with the 4300, and see whether it plays loud enough for you.
I have two Emotiva XPA-5 amps and they are on separate 20amp circuits. In my 12' x 14' HT room, the 200 w all channels driven are way over the top. I've just bought one of the Abt X4300H receivers and for 11.2 in my LR (not the HT), I'm going to feed the Front L & R to an Emotiva BasX 300, with 150w both ch driven and all of the rest of the 4300H internal amps for 7.2.4. This will give me PLENTY of headroom, from my experience.
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post #8698 of 17246 Old 08-19-2017, 12:04 PM
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I hooked my Samsung UBD-K8500 to my X3300W which is connected ARC and it killed the picture. Made it super dark as compared to having it connected straight to the TV (Samsung KS8500). The HDMI from the UHD player is a 4k HDMI cable, but the one that is the ARC cable is just a regular HDMI. Could this be the cause or do I have another issue? Going through the AVR made an otherewise stellar picture look terrible.

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post #8699 of 17246 Old 08-19-2017, 12:31 PM
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OSD Volume control gone on X4300

Hey there - any idea how to get on screen volume control back working on the x4300?

I've gone into settings and 'on screen display' and it shows as on (and indeed I can see it working when the menu is up) but as soon as I go back to my regular signal It's gone. I'm not sure at what point it stopped working, but I can't seem to fix it?

Thanks.
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post #8700 of 17246 Old 08-19-2017, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HYPURR DBL NKL View Post
I hooked my Samsung UBD-K8500 to my X3300W which is connected ARC and it killed the picture. Made it super dark as compared to having it connected straight to the TV (Samsung KS8500). The HDMI from the UHD player is a 4k HDMI cable, but the one that is the ARC cable is just a regular HDMI. Could this be the cause or do I have another issue? Going through the AVR made an otherewise stellar picture look terrible.
Do you get the menu from the K8500?

The format Samsung selected for that uses 17.2Gbps, soy you need a cable that can handle the full 18Gbps for it to work properly. (Not all "4k" cables are up to that.)

I'm not sure what happens when you use a good cable to connect the player to an AVR and an inadequate cable to connect the AVR to the display, but it can't be good.
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