The "OFFICIAL" 2016 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ - Page 479 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14341 of 18068 Old 04-03-2018, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced46 View Post
Its a Denon 4300. Not sure why my thread got moved here as I started a new one. Anyhow, for example. I was watching a UHD Blue ray and the bluray was outputting DTS:Master. I found no settings to do what I am talking about. I know if you listen to music and I believe set it to Prologic. You can spread the center. But I could have sworn there was a setting to send voice to the fronts regardless of the sound mode it was on. I cant remember which receiver I did this on. Either this 4300, my Old Denon X4000 or my few year old Pioneer. I went through all settings last night and didnt see anything that allows this while watching a UHD movie
1. When discussing the setup/issues of a particular model, the Mods like having the question posed in the dedicated Owner's thread when one exists. This serves to help others learn about that particular model as well without having to read individual threads.
2. Yes, this is the <Center Width> setting which as you say is only available with the Dolby ProLogic Music modes but no longer available on models where Dolby Surround has replaced Dolby ProLogic (eg. X4300H).
3. Perhaps you are thinking of the <Center Image/Gain> setting used with DTS Neo:6 audio but which was dropped with the release of DTS Neural:X on the 2015 and newer models.
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post #14342 of 18068 Old 04-03-2018, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by JeffChap View Post
Yup, the rolloff is usually 12db/octave.
Yes, it's very common to use a second-order xover for the subwoofer / LFE filtering.

Some subwoofers even have a switch allowing one to select a gentle or sharp crossover slope, ie, a choice of 12 dB/octave and 24 dB/octave, or sometimes 6 dB/octave and 18 dB/octave. Also, HTPC software like the LAV audio filters may also let you tweak the xover slope, if you wanted to do bass management upstream of the AVR or subwoofer. That being said, Audyssey-- especially flavors with SubEQ HT-- does a good job if you don't want to tweak things.
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post #14343 of 18068 Old 04-03-2018, 11:41 AM
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I have an X4300H, and primarily watch movies with some xbox gaming. I happened to browse my bluray collection and notices that 90% show up as either 6.1 or 5.1 audio. I currently have 7 speakers, but the two surrounds had to go in the ceiling just behind the MLP. Based on this, should I go with 5.1.2 or 7.1? And is chosing Auto for the format best?

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post #14344 of 18068 Old 04-03-2018, 11:51 AM
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with the x1300w is there a way to save 2 different Audyssey profiles? sometimes the large sub is not usable in a condo.
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post #14345 of 18068 Old 04-03-2018, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mingus View Post
with the x1300w is there a way to save 2 different Audyssey profiles? sometimes the large sub is not usable in a condo.
Not in the AVR no, rather you would have to either save the config file to a PC file (using Web Control) or use the new MultEQ Editor app (iOS/Android, $20) which is much quicker (~ 1-2 minutes to reload).
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post #14346 of 18068 Old 04-03-2018, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoZags13 View Post
I have an X4300H, and primarily watch movies with some xbox gaming. I happened to browse my bluray collection and notices that 90% show up as either 6.1 or 5.1 audio. I currently have 7 speakers, but the two surrounds had to go in the ceiling just behind the MLP. Based on this, should I go with 5.1.2 or 7.1? And is chosing Auto for the format best?
So then the "side" surrounds are floor height to the side of the MLP and the "rear" surrounds are "in the ceiling just behind the MLP"?

You could try both ways to determine which you prefer .... as "Surround Back" or as "Top Middle."
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post #14347 of 18068 Old 04-03-2018, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
1. When discussing the setup/issues of a particular model, the Mods like having the question posed in the dedicated Owner's thread when one exists. This serves to help others learn about that particular model as well without having to read individual threads.
2. Yes, this is the <Center Width> setting which as you say is only available with the Dolby ProLogic Music modes but no longer available on models where Dolby Surround has replaced Dolby ProLogic (eg. X4300H).
3. Perhaps you are thinking of the <Center Image/Gain> setting used with DTS Neo:6 audio but which was dropped with the release of DTS Neural:X on the 2015 and newer models.
Thanks for the info. I am aware of the Center Width setting. But I was hoping there was a way to make my whole front/center setup output voice. The reason being is. I feel my center sounds a bit weak and to direct. It does not really fill up the room and I have to really crank it up to hear it well which causes everything else to be too loud during action and suck. The room is treated etc also. I have tried so many different things like changing the angle of the center, moving it further, closer etc. Re calibrated with different listening positions, changing the Freq curves with Audessy app etc with no drastic change to get it to sound the way I want. This is why I wanted to try to add the fronts in to handle the voices to give me a "wider" sound.

The center is an Energy RCLCR and the fronts are Energy RC70s. I was thinking about buying a new center, but that means upgrading everything which is just not in the budget right now.
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post #14348 of 18068 Old 04-03-2018, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
So then the "side" surrounds are floor height to the side of the MLP and the "rear" surrounds are "in the ceiling just behind the MLP"?

You could try both ways to determine which you prefer .... as "Surround Back" or as "Top Middle."
The side surrounds are in the ceiling, the rear surrounds are at ear height. I'll probably hook it up both ways to test, but just curious what would probably have the best bang for buck with most content.
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post #14349 of 18068 Old 04-03-2018, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoZags13 View Post
The side surrounds are in the ceiling, the rear surrounds are at ear height. I'll probably hook it up both ways to test, but just curious what would probably have the best bang for buck with most content.
As with some other settings as well, only you can decide which you prefer based on your room's acoustics.
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post #14350 of 18068 Old 04-03-2018, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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How to improve center speaker dialog

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced46 View Post
Thanks for the info. I am aware of the Center Width setting. But I was hoping there was a way to make my whole front/center setup output voice. The reason being is. I feel my center sounds a bit weak and to direct. It does not really fill up the room and I have to really crank it up to hear it well which causes everything else to be too loud during action and suck. The room is treated etc also. I have tried so many different things like changing the angle of the center, moving it further, closer etc. Re calibrated with different listening positions, changing the Freq curves with Audessy app etc with no drastic change to get it to sound the way I want. This is why I wanted to try to add the fronts in to handle the voices to give me a "wider" sound.

The center is an Energy RCLCR and the fronts are Energy RC70s. I was thinking about buying a new center, but that means upgrading everything which is just not in the budget right now.
The center speaker should be as good or better quality as the FL/FR speakers to be sure, although I would think the Energy RC-LCR should fit the bill.

Have you tried the standard suggestions for improving center channel dialog (either individually or all together)?

1. If the center speaker is on a shelf, pull the speaker out to the edge and angle it up towards your head (ie. so as not to be pointing at your knees) and run Audyssey again.
2. Set Audyssey Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset to 10dB which reduces the bass boost.
3. Set Dynamic Volume to Medium which bumps up lower level dialog while compressing the loud explosions.
4. And lastly, simply boosting the center speaker volume level a few dB.
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post #14351 of 18068 Old 04-03-2018, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The center speaker should be as good or better quality as the FL/FR speakers to be sure, although I would think the Energy RC-LCR should fit the bill.

Have you tried the standard suggestions for improving center channel dialog (either individually or all together)?

1. If the center speaker is on a shelf, pull the speaker out to the edge and angle it up towards your head (ie. so as not to be pointing at your knees) and run Audyssey again.
2. Set Audyssey Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset to 10dB which reduces the bass boost.
3. Set Dynamic Volume to Medium which bumps up lower level dialog while compressing the loud explosions.
4. And lastly, simply boosting the center speaker volume level a few dB.
1. I tried this with zero positive result. The center is on a stand and I have moved it up as far as 4 ft off the screen wall.
2. I have not tried but will and will report back ( I was unsure what this setting did)
3. I have not tried but will and will report back (I was unsure what this setting did)
4. I have been running +2.0 to +3.0db on center level and also tried the same with the "dialog" level. This has so far provided the best results but I am still not 100% happy with the sound. I did not want to push it too far up past that though.

Thanks!
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post #14352 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced46 View Post
Thanks for the info. I am aware of the Center Width setting. But I was hoping there was a way to make my whole front/center setup output voice. The reason being is. I feel my center sounds a bit weak and to direct. It does not really fill up the room and I have to really crank it up to hear it well which causes everything else to be too loud during action and suck. The room is treated etc also. I have tried so many different things like changing the angle of the center, moving it further, closer etc. Re calibrated with different listening positions, changing the Freq curves with Audessy app etc with no drastic change to get it to sound the way I want. This is why I wanted to try to add the fronts in to handle the voices to give me a "wider" sound.

The center is an Energy RCLCR and the fronts are Energy RC70s. I was thinking about buying a new center, but that means upgrading everything which is just not in the budget right now.
There is the MultEQ app too. You can do a custom EQ curve for the center speaker.
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post #14353 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced46 View Post
1. I tried this with zero positive result. The center is on a stand and I have moved it up as far as 4 ft off the screen wall.
2. I have not tried but will and will report back ( I was unsure what this setting did)
3. I have not tried but will and will report back (I was unsure what this setting did)
4. I have been running +2.0 to +3.0db on center level and also tried the same with the "dialog" level. This has so far provided the best results but I am still not 100% happy with the sound. I did not want to push it too far up past that though.

Thanks!
The <Dialog Level> setting simply adjusts the center speaker volume level.
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post #14354 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced46 View Post
Thanks for the info. I am aware of the Center Width setting. But I was hoping there was a way to make my whole front/center setup output voice. The reason being is. I feel my center sounds a bit weak and to direct. It does not really fill up the room and I have to really crank it up to hear it well which causes everything else to be too loud during action and suck. The room is treated etc also. I have tried so many different things like changing the angle of the center, moving it further, closer etc. Re calibrated with different listening positions, changing the Freq curves with Audessy app etc with no drastic change to get it to sound the way I want. This is why I wanted to try to add the fronts in to handle the voices to give me a "wider" sound.

The center is an Energy RCLCR and the fronts are Energy RC70s. I was thinking about buying a new center, but that means upgrading everything which is just not in the budget right now.
Have you checked to make sure all the drivers are functional in the center speaker? Is Audyssey setup setting the trim at a high level? If you see this it may be Audyssey trying to compensate for a damaged tweeter.

Another possible problem... are you running the speaker full range (i.e. speaker selected as Large)? I usually recommend setting your mains and centers as small and then cross them somewhere between 60 and 100Hz. The old rule was a 80Hz crossover since bass becomes less localized the lower the frequency. Don't set the crossover lower than Audyssey detected since no correction was done outside of the system capabilities it determined.
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Last edited by Toknowshita; 04-04-2018 at 08:11 AM.
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post #14355 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
Is there anyway to run (use) REW with a Umik-1 mic if you don’t have an HDMI port on a laptop? Any suggestions?


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Yes using Java driver with no HDMI connection, the REW guide linked in my sig will explain how to do this, this is a direct link to the guide, also the latest version.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zdhq72a1pu...rsion.pdf?dl=0

Download latest version of REW

https://www.avnirvana.com/resources/...r-with-jre.14/

Good luck...........
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Last edited by ahblaza; 04-04-2018 at 10:35 AM.
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post #14356 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rec head View Post
Sorry I don't keep up with the thread and I'm a little frustrated. I'm having a problem with white sparkles during the black parts of dark scenes on 4k HDR movies. The problem was really bad with Coco. The sparkles been coming up for a while and I finally ordered some new cables when I realized that I never replaced the cable from HTPC to X4300. Replacing the cable didn't change anything.

Content is 4K UHD rips on HTPC. Setup is HTPC (Nvidia 1060) to Denon X4300 to LG 2016 OLED

What I have tried so far is:
-new cables from HTPC to AVR and AVR to TV. Cables are monoprice 18Gps https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

-I have tried turning off all video processing and conversion in the AVR - No change

-Updated Nvidia drivers - No change

-connecting HTPC directly to the TV SOLVES the problem

-AVR firmware is not up to date because I read that people were having problems with it.

Any other ideas?

Thanks

EDIT: I have also tried different Nvidia and MadVR settings
This little switch appears to have solved the problem:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

I put it between the HTPC and X4300. Only one test this morning with a really bad scene in Coco and I didn't see any sparkles.

I have it plugged into one of my triggered power strips so it is only on when I'm using the HTPC input.
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post #14357 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 01:19 PM
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Hello to all. I am sorry for such primitive question but I am a newbie and I need help.

Instead of buying X4400h, I am planning to buy Denon X3400h and Emotiva 500 power amp. (For better stereo music quality)

My question is, will I able to have 12 channel altogether? Denon (7.2ch) + Emotiva (5ch) = 12.2 ch? &#x1f642;

Thank you.
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post #14358 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
Is there anyway to run (use) REW with a Umik-1 mic if you don’t have an HDMI port on a laptop? Any suggestions?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If your laptop has a displayport, this might work.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...yABEgLYkfD_BwE

My Stuff.
Spoiler!
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post #14359 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuMu View Post
Hello to all. I am sorry for such primitive question but I am a newbie and I need help.

Instead of buying X4400h, I am planning to buy Denon X3400h and Emotiva 500 power amp. (For better stereo music quality)

My question is, will I able to have 12 channel altogether? Denon (7.2ch) + Emotiva (5ch) = 12.2 ch? &#x1f642;

Thank you.
Nope. The 2016 X3300W covered in this thread, and the 2017 X3400H covered in the 2017 Denon AVR Owner's thread linked below are both 7CH models and cannot expand beyond 7CH even when adding external amps. The 2016 X4300H covered in this thread, and the 2017 X4400H covered in the 2017 Denon AVR Owner's thread are both 9CH models that can both expand to 11CH using at least a 2CH external amp.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...sts-1-8-a.html
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post #14360 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 02:02 PM
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Thank you for your prompt reply.

But what is those 5ch pre outs on 3400h for?
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post #14361 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuMu View Post
Thank you for your prompt reply.

But what is those 5ch pre outs on 3400h for?
So you can use an external amp instead of the internal amps if you like. For more power or perceived higher quality.

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post #14362 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 02:25 PM
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Thank you.

So I think I will stick with my old AVR until 9.2 ch comes industry standard. I hear you saying “good luck” &#x1f642;
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post #14363 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rec head View Post
There is the MultEQ app too. You can do a custom EQ curve for the center speaker.
I have tried the APP and tried a few things. Turned midrange compensation on and off with no drastic difference. I have also tried messing with the center channel EQ curve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknow****a View Post
Have you checked to make sure all the drivers are functional in the center speaker? Is Audyssey setup setting the trim at a high level? If you see this it may be Audyssey trying to compensate for a damaged tweeter.

Another possible problem... are you running the speaker full range (i.e. speaker selected as Large)? I usually recommend setting your mains and centers as small and then cross them somewhere between 60 and 100Hz. The old rule was a 80Hz crossover since bass becomes less localized the lower the frequency. Don't set the crossover lower than Audyssey detected since no correction was done outside of the system capabilities it determined.

Yes I have, all the drivers are functioning. I have not checked trim levels since the last time I ran Audessy, I will do that.

I run all my speakers on SMALL. I have my fronts and center crossed @ 100hz and my surrounds at 150hz.

Audessey ALWAYS sets the crossover for my fronts at 40hz and the center at 60hz. I manually change it after I run it.

I really wish I had another set of ears and someone that knew what they are doing to help dial this in. I feel like I am missing out a bit with my setup and I have tried everything.
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post #14364 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced46 View Post
I have tried the APP and tried a few things. Turned midrange compensation on and off with no drastic difference. I have also tried messing with the center channel EQ curve.









Yes I have, all the drivers are functioning. I have not checked trim levels since the last time I ran Audessy, I will do that.



I run all my speakers on SMALL. I have my fronts and center crossed @ 100hz and my surrounds at 150hz.



Audessey ALWAYS sets the crossover for my fronts at 40hz and the center at 60hz. I manually change it after I run it.



I really wish I had another set of ears and someone that knew what they are doing to help dial this in. I feel like I am missing out a bit with my setup and I have tried everything.


Yeah. Mine sets the fronts to 40 and center to 60 as well. It set the rears to 200. Those are smaller orb audio speakers. Do you notice a difference when putting the speakers at 80. I kind of think that they sound better with them set at 40 and 60. I know what you mean by wishing you had someone there with better ears. lol
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post #14365 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rec head View Post
This little switch appears to have solved the problem:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

I put it between the HTPC and X4300. Only one test this morning with a really bad scene in Coco and I didn't see any sparkles.

I have it plugged into one of my triggered power strips so it is only on when I'm using the HTPC input.
My guess is it has a reclocking amplifier in it that cleans up the digital signals, making them square waves (more or less) again. Reclocking cleans up sparklies really well. Glad you found a solution.
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post #14366 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 07:37 PM
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What mode do people prefer best for listening to music on a 7.1 setup?

Denon X4300H; Sony XBR75 900E; Definitive Technology RLS-II/DI 5.5LCR/DI 5.5R; NHT SW12
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post #14367 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JuMu View Post
Thank you.

So I think I will stick with my old AVR until 9.2 ch comes industry standard. I hear you saying “good luck”
I don't think that's necessarily too far fetched nor that far away with Atmos and DTS-X gaining in popularity. Denon's newest flagship will have 13 onboard power amps and 15 channels.

Chane A5 towers,Chane A2.4 center,RBH bipole side surrounds, Rythmik LV12R x2,Denon X4300H, Outlaw 5000,Front B speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 books. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...d-part-ii.html

Last edited by Madmax67; 04-04-2018 at 08:47 PM.
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post #14368 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by GoZags13 View Post
What mode do people prefer best for listening to music on a 7.1 setup?
Multi channel music/Flat EQ/DEQ RLO 10db.

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post #14369 of 18068 Old 04-04-2018, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Juiced46 View Post

Audessey ALWAYS sets the crossover for my fronts at 40hz and the center at 60hz. I manually change it after I run it.
Audyssey doesn't set crossovers. The receiver manufacture does. Audyssey just sets it's FIR filters ending at the speakers in room -3db point.

Sounds like it might be time for new speakers or some room treatments at the speakers reflection points(absorption/dispersion.)

Chane A5 towers,Chane A2.4 center,RBH bipole side surrounds, Rythmik LV12R x2,Denon X4300H, Outlaw 5000,Front B speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 books. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...d-part-ii.html
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post #14370 of 18068 Old 04-05-2018, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by DougDingle View Post
My guess is it has a reclocking amplifier in it that cleans up the digital signals, making them square waves (more or less) again. Reclocking cleans up sparklies really well. Glad you found a solution.
Its just frustrating that I need it. Like I said in the original post the HTPC -> TV works fine. At least it is solved relatively inexpensively. I just wanted to post for others that may be looking for a solution.
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