The "OFFICIAL" 2016 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ - Page 561 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16801 of 17498 Old 04-16-2019, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark the Red View Post
Well it turns out, its not the cable, but when I connect two HDMI outs to the AVR (i.e., 1 to projector and 1 to another monitor) its what causes the problem. It doesn't matter which one is where (HDMI 1 or HDMI 2) but when two concurrent monitors are connected I get all these problems.

Is this RMA'able a problem? I'd hate to be out of a AVR while this is fixed and I have around 40 hours on the AVR right now of actual in use time on it, but this doesn't bode well if I have HDMI issues this early in the lifecycle of this AVR. From what I have read, the HDMI processor is overclocked to begin with.

I need to have two monitors because my AVR is in another room from my theater, so if I need do anything to the HTPC when not in the room, this dual monitor ability alllows me to do so without hot plug swapping this.

Thoughts JDsmoothie? Will Denon give me the "Doc it hurts when I lift my arm?" runaround line?
There are many posts in this thread with an identical theme as yours - one projector, one monitor, lots of issues.

I don't know whether it's because the two display devices are capable of two different resolutions (HD and UHD) or what, but I can tell you that getting a replacement AVR will result in the identical issues you're seeing now. The other thing that seems to cause these problems is going with an active HDMI cable because the run to the projector is so long.

Perhaps someone has solved the problem and will respond, but I can tell you for sure you're not alone with this issue.
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post #16802 of 17498 Old 04-16-2019, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark the Red View Post
Well it turns out, its not the cable, but when I connect two HDMI outs to the AVR (i.e., 1 to projector and 1 to another monitor) its what causes the problem. It doesn't matter which one is where (HDMI 1 or HDMI 2) but when two concurrent monitors are connected I get all these problems.



Is this RMA'able a problem? I'd hate to be out of a AVR while this is fixed and I have around 40 hours on the AVR right now of actual in use time on it, but this doesn't bode well if I have HDMI issues this early in the lifecycle of this AVR. From what I have read, the HDMI processor is overclocked to begin with.



I need to have two monitors because my AVR is in another room from my theater, so if I need do anything to the HTPC when not in the room, this dual monitor ability alllows me to do so without hot plug swapping this.



Thoughts JDsmoothie? Will Denon give me the "Doc it hurts when I lift my arm?" runaround line?


An RMA likely won’t fix it. Do you have specs on the monitor? Have you tried the discretely turning off the monitor 2 hdmi out while leaving the secondary monitor connected and see if this cures the connection issue? You could then turn monitor 2 hdmi output on when needed.


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post #16803 of 17498 Old 04-16-2019, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark the Red View Post
Well it turns out, its not the cable, but when I connect two HDMI outs to the AVR (i.e., 1 to projector and 1 to another monitor) its what causes the problem. It doesn't matter which one is where (HDMI 1 or HDMI 2) but when two concurrent monitors are connected I get all these problems.

Is this RMA'able a problem? I'd hate to be out of a AVR while this is fixed and I have around 40 hours on the AVR right now of actual in use time on it, but this doesn't bode well if I have HDMI issues this early in the lifecycle of this AVR. From what I have read, the HDMI processor is overclocked to begin with.

I need to have two monitors because my AVR is in another room from my theater, so if I need do anything to the HTPC when not in the room, this dual monitor ability alllows me to do so without hot plug swapping this.

Thoughts JDsmoothie? Will Denon give me the "Doc it hurts when I lift my arm?" runaround line?
If one is 1080p and the other 4k, nothing wrong here, rather simply how HDMI works with two different resolutions. Use "MONITOR 1" or "MONITOR 2" instead of "DUAL(AUTO)".
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post #16804 of 17498 Old 04-17-2019, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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For those of you with a sub (or subs) capable of going <20Hz, a recent update to the MultEQ Editor app has now removed the 20Hz roll-off resulting in much more pronounced lower bass response.
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post #16805 of 17498 Old 04-17-2019, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougDingle View Post
There are many posts in this thread with an identical theme as yours - one projector, one monitor, lots of issues.

I don't know whether it's because the two display devices are capable of two different resolutions (HD and UHD) or what, but I can tell you that getting a replacement AVR will result in the identical issues you're seeing now. The other thing that seems to cause these problems is going with an active HDMI cable because the run to the projector is so long.

Perhaps someone has solved the problem and will respond, but I can tell you for sure you're not alone with this issue.
Please forgive me for not reading every post in this thread. Googling the subject mainly brought up HDMI board failures hence my line of questioning.

I guess I will have to learn to live with physically disconnecting the computer monitor before going into the theater.
Powering off the monitor doesn't work.

Also, I am well aware that I am not trying to run the same desktop of my computer to two separate resolutions with the same cable.
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post #16806 of 17498 Old 04-17-2019, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark the Red View Post
Please forgive me for not reading every post in this thread. Googling the subject mainly brought up HDMI board failures hence my line of questioning.

I guess I will have to learn to live with physically disconnecting the computer monitor before going into the theater.
Powering off the monitor doesn't work.

Also, I am well aware that I am not trying to run the same desktop of my computer to two separate resolutions with the same cable.
You can actually configure this in the Setup menu, with some luck that is enough for it to work correctly. With some more luck (haven't tested this) you can put the configuration on one of the shortcut buttons on the remote.
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post #16807 of 17498 Old 04-17-2019, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark the Red View Post
Please forgive me for not reading every post in this thread. Googling the subject mainly brought up HDMI board failures hence my line of questioning.

I guess I will have to learn to live with physically disconnecting the computer monitor before going into the theater.
Powering off the monitor doesn't work.

Also, I am well aware that I am not trying to run the same desktop of my computer to two separate resolutions with the same cable.
Yeah, this is an old issue. You can disconnect the power (not just turn it off) to your monitor instead of the HDMI cable which is probably better for the equipment. If you have any kind of smart home and a universal remote like a Harmony you can use a smart outlet. Have the outlet programmed to be off while the projector is on. Then everything is automatic.
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post #16808 of 17498 Old 04-17-2019, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark the Red View Post

I guess I will have to learn to live with physically disconnecting the computer monitor before going into the theater.
Powering off the monitor doesn't work.
There are many inexpensive remote controlled plugs that can shut down power to your equipment so that physically unplugging is not required.
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post #16809 of 17498 Old 04-17-2019, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
For those of you with a sub (or subs) capable of going <20Hz, a recent update to the MultEQ Editor app has now removed the 20Hz roll-off resulting in much more pronounced lower bass response.
I think I just had that auto update, can we roll back firmware?

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post #16810 of 17498 Old 04-17-2019, 06:48 PM
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I think I just had that auto update, can we roll back firmware?
JD referred to the MultEq Editor app (available for IOS and Android). https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hom...ulteqeditorapp

That, not a firmware update.

I have never tried it, but Denon may allow you to install an older firmware using the USB method. The trick is finding a copy of the older firmware.

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post #16811 of 17498 Old 04-17-2019, 07:35 PM
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JD referred to the MultEq Editor app (available for IOS and Android). https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hom...ulteqeditorapp

That, not a firmware update.

I have never tried it, but Denon may allow you to install an older firmware using the USB method. The trick is finding a copy of the older firmware.
Ah, I didn't pay attention, although my 4300H did auto-update an hour ago. I wonder what that was for.

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post #16812 of 17498 Old 04-17-2019, 08:30 PM
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Ah, I didn't pay attention, although my 4300H did auto-update an hour ago. I wonder what that was for.
This may be of interest: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post43790690
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post #16813 of 17498 Old 04-17-2019, 10:59 PM
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Ah, I didn't pay attention, although my 4300H did auto-update an hour ago. I wonder what that was for.
I had one on my 6300 as well.

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post #16814 of 17498 Old 04-17-2019, 11:24 PM
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Thank you Sir!

Although I believe it takes a while for the notes to appear about a firmware update. I'm guessing we'll find out in a week or two.

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post #16815 of 17498 Old 04-18-2019, 01:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Ah, I didn't pay attention, although my 4300H did auto-update an hour ago. I wonder what that was for.
All HEOS Denon/Marantz models received the update as well as there being an update to the HEOS app indicating "improves overall performance and stability."
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post #16816 of 17498 Old 04-18-2019, 11:23 AM
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Anyone privy to AVR-X4300h headphone ohm output rating, or if a DAC is needed for anything 250ohm?

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post #16817 of 17498 Old 04-20-2019, 06:00 PM
 
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connecting monilith 7 to denon x3300

im sort of confused how i go about this. dont have the monolith yet.

i am using the monolith only for front lrc


i understand i need some 3.5 cables and some wire so that both turn on at the same time.


i need regular rca cables to connect the denon pre outs to the monolith
but as for the speaker wires, do i connect the flr to the monolith, and not the denon?


is there a youtube video out there. cant really find anything on this.
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post #16818 of 17498 Old 04-20-2019, 07:42 PM
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Yes you will run the 3.5 mm cable from the trigger out on the Denon to the trigger in on the monolith you will then run your RCA out from your Denon on the speakers you want to run with your monolith to the end on the monolith corresponding with that speaker RCA then you will connect your speakers with speaker cable to the monolith hope that helps

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post #16819 of 17498 Old 04-20-2019, 08:28 PM
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I just got the Monolith 3x200. It came with the 3.5mm trigger cable.

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post #16820 of 17498 Old 04-20-2019, 08:35 PM
 
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thanks guys thats what i needed to know. rca cables which would you recommend? ill need 3 if the monolith doesnt include them.
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post #16821 of 17498 Old 04-20-2019, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariogonzalezzz View Post
thanks guys thats what i needed to know. rca cables which would you recommend? ill need 3 if the monolith doesnt include them.

The Monolith does not come with RCA cables. If you want to spend some money on fancy cables you can get the Monolith RCA cables or SVS RCA cables.

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post #16822 of 17498 Old 04-20-2019, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by gordojones88 View Post
The Monolith does not come with RCA cables. If you want to spend some money on fancy cables you can get the Monolith RCA cables or SVS RCA cables.
If you don't wish to spend money on fancy cables, these are OK: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2181 Each channel uses RG-59/U coaxial cable, and the shielding appears to be pretty good. I've used it between a Denon AVR-X4300H and an Emotiva XPA3 Gen3 amp.
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post #16823 of 17498 Old 04-21-2019, 08:22 AM
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Each channel uses RG-59/U coaxial cable
If I were running RCA cables more than a couple of feet I would look for something with lower capacitance per foot. RG-59 is great for RF signals where the load equals the characteristic impedance of the cable, but look at the picofarads per foot specs--not all RG59's are created equal.
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post #16824 of 17498 Old 04-21-2019, 12:24 PM
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If I were running RCA cables more than a couple of feet I would look for something with lower capacitance per foot. RG-59 is great for RF signals where the load equals the characteristic impedance of the cable, but look at the picofarads per foot specs--not all RG59's are created equal.
That may be good advice, but I doubt that Monoprice supplies that information. They cheerfully sell that cable in up to 50' (15m) lengths, with the same co-ax used for audio and composite video. No guarantee that an audiophile would care for the result, of course.

I'm running a 25' RG59 cable from Mediabridge without issues, but it's a subwoofer cable (< 250 Hz).

Last edited by bobknavs; 04-21-2019 at 12:31 PM.
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post #16825 of 17498 Old 04-21-2019, 01:16 PM
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thanks guys thats what i needed to know. rca cables which would you recommend? ill need 3 if the monolith doesnt include them.
I use the BJC LC-1 ICs, they have a very low capacitance.. 12.2 pF/ft, this is very beneficial for long runs but in your case you only need a few feet from preouts (AVR) to amp so any decent cable with good termination and shielding should work fine....
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post #16826 of 17498 Old 04-21-2019, 02:20 PM
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I use the BJC LC-1 ICs, they have a very low capacitance.. 12.2 pF/ft, this is very beneficial for long runs but in your case you only need a few feet from preouts (AVR) to amp so any decent cable with good termination and shielding should work fine....
BJC says that the LC-1 (40 pF/m) is "much better" than an ordinary cable at 21 pF/foot (69 pF/m).

Does anyone know what capacitance is acceptable in a high-impedance load to a preamp?

Incidentally, I revisited the Monoprice high-end cables. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=18534 The description looks to be full of the most dubious audiophile-speak I've ever seen for any Monoprice product. On the plus side, the cables are much cheaper than other products that are described in similar language. Three 6' cables won't bankrupt you.
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post #16827 of 17498 Old 04-21-2019, 04:50 PM
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Does anyone know what capacitance is acceptable in a high-impedance load to a preamp?
You would really have to do the math. If the output impedance of the preamp is 600 or 1000 ohms, a capacitive reactance of 20k ohms at 20kHz would lose just 5% of the signal, or less than 0.5dB. Clearly for subwoofer use you are many octaves away from that so the loss would be negligible.

But let's say you need a 50' cable for some reason. The capacitance of RG-59 has specs spread all over the place. Let's just decide it is 2500pF for 50'. The reactance is now around 3k at 20kHz so the loss is definitely measurable even if not audible to an aging audiophile like me.

If I messed up the arithmetic above just blame it on Easter dinner. The real math requires the "j" operator and I am not ready for that today.
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post #16828 of 17498 Old 04-22-2019, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
You would really have to do the math. If the output impedance of the preamp is 600 or 1000 ohms, a capacitive reactance of 20k ohms at 20kHz would lose just 5% of the signal, or less than 0.5dB. Clearly for subwoofer use you are many octaves away from that so the loss would be negligible.

But let's say you need a 50' cable for some reason. The capacitance of RG-59 has specs spread all over the place. Let's just decide it is 2500pF for 50'. The reactance is now around 3k at 20kHz so the loss is definitely measurable even if not audible to an aging audiophile like me.

If I messed up the arithmetic above just blame it on Easter dinner. The real math requires the "j" operator and I am not ready for that today.
I don't have a convenient tool for complex arithmetic. I find, though, that Excel does it, in a somewhat kludgy manner. I've never tried to calculate the effects of a shunt capacitance before.

If I did it correctly, a 15m (50') cable at 69 pF/m would have a capacitance of around 1000 pF. Assuming a 1k source resistance and a 28k input resistance on the amp, the loss (compared to zero capacitance) would be .07 dB at 20 kHz. Increasing the cable's capacitance to 167 pF/m to give about 2500pF total would give -0.38 dB.

Incidentally, a 1.83m (6') long cable at 69 pF/m gives 0.0010 dB of loss due to capacitance, with the other parameters the same. Raising the capacitance to 167 pF/m increases that to 0.0060 dB.

I'm not confident in these numbers, but they don't suggest to me that I need to buy low-capacitance cables to make a 6' connection between my AVR and my amp. Audiophiles, who are sometimes unimpressed by numbers, may disagree.
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post #16829 of 17498 Old 04-22-2019, 05:58 AM
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I'm having a problem with my X3300. It's been working for about a year with no issues. After a few hours of intermittent use throughout the day, the receiver will cycle the picture and sound on and off. It doesn't matter which source the media is coming through. Once it starts, this problem will recur every 3 minutes or so. For example, I'm watching TV on Fios and all the sudden, the sound and picture will go black and then it will cycle back on within about 10 seconds. 3 minutes later, it will happen again. It will continue to happen until I turn it off and leave it off overnight or for several hours. This happens about two weeks after the warranty runs out of my refurbished unit from accessories4less. I'm kicking myself for not buying a new unit or getting some sort of extended warranty.

Here are the components that I use:
- Denon X3300
- Samsung PND7000 (One of the last Samsung Plasma TV's)
- Apple TV 4K
- PS4
- Fios wireless box (this is about a month new in our household)
- EMP Tek fronts and surrounds
- HSU VTF3 MK4 sub
- Orb satellite rear surrounds

All sound goes out to the speakers and the all components connect into the AVR. Only cable that goes to the TV is the HDMI out from the receiver.

Things I've done to fix the problem:
- replace all the HDMI cables
- recheck all the cables and banana plugs for the speakers to ensure that there isn't any issue or cross connection
- I've unplugged each HDMI source one at a time to see if I can isolate if any specific component is causing the error and I've found nothing that makes a change.
- I've made sure that the eco mode isn't activated
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post #16830 of 17498 Old 04-22-2019, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
I don't have a convenient tool for complex arithmetic. I find, though, that Excel does it, in a somewhat kludgy manner. I've never tried to calculate the effects of a shunt capacitance before.
Bob, your idea of using a spreadsheet intrigued me. I fiddled one up the includes both the loss at low frequencies from the resistive voltage divider and the added high-frequency loss from the shunt capacitance. I know I could not distinguish a dB or two loss at 20kHz

Have a look and see what I left out. Thanks! (Can't attach an XLSX file so unZIP before opening.)
Attached Files
File Type: zip EffectsCableCapacitance.zip (7.6 KB, 6 views)
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M = Mega, m = milli. K = Kelvin, k = kilo. B = Bytes, b = bits. G = Giga, g = gravity. Dan in Saint Louis
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6300h , 6400h , 6500h , arc , atmos , avr , avr-3300 , AVR-x2300W , avr-x3300w , connection , Denon , denon 3300 , denon avr x2300w , denon avr-x1300w , dlna , hdmi , issue , JS8500 , media player input , multi-zone , network , nexus player , OLED65E6P , pass-through , preamp , receiver problem , slingbox m1 , smart tv arc , spdif , speaker setup , video/audio , x4300h , x6300h , xbr-65x900e , zone 2 , zone 3

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