The "OFFICIAL" 2016 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ - Page 602 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #18031 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
You're not restoring any firmware differences you're just restoring your custom settings so there's another problem. Try copying the file to another thumb drive.
I understand what it’s supposed to do, nonetheless it didn’t work despite several attempts.
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post #18032 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 12:36 AM
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I understand what it’s supposed to do, nonetheless it didn’t work despite several attempts.
Try another USB stick then.

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post #18033 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 12:42 AM
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Try another USB stick then.
It’s already restored, by hand, so no point. I did subsequently do a save, but have no desire to do a test restore given the hours I have already spent on the unit in the last few days.

You may have seen the posts of problems with this latest firmware and Denon telling people to ship their units for repair..
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post #18034 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 12:43 AM
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I keep like 5 or 6 different USB stick makes in a drawer just for this exact same thing. They're a dime a dozen times on Amazon.

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post #18035 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JJ7 View Post
It’s already restored, by hand, so no point. I did subsequently do a save, but have no desire to do a test restore given the hours I have already spent on the unit in the last few days.
If you had tried another USB stick first you might not have had to spend hours on it.

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You may have seen the posts of problems with this latest firmware and Denon telling people to ship their units for repair..
I've seen them. Also seen several fix things by doing a microprocessor reset. This is the same advice given in the OPPO threads as well after every firmware update. Save settings to a USB and reset the unit. 99 times out of 100 firmware update issues do not hard brick features. They're soft bricks resolved with a reset or several back to back. I'd be shocked if this one was any different.

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post #18036 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
If im listening to a stereo SACD recording in direct mode (stereo)(no BM or Audyssey) will my mains auto switch to LARGE ?? My usual setup is 80hz XO point

I always ignore f/w at this point im glad my x4300 is still working being how old it is, and yes 4-5yrs old is old for newer receivers
Yes. No bass management means the mains are set to LARGE.
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post #18037 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
I've seen them. Also seen several fix things by doing a microprocessor reset. This is the same advice given in the OPPO threads as well after every firmware update. Save settings to a USB and reset the unit. 99 times out of 100 firmware update issues do not hard brick features. They're soft bricks resolved with a reset or several back to back. I'd be shocked if this one was any different.
If you read the posts, you’ll see that those of us who are reporting these problems tried multiple microprocessor and network resets to no avail. Only the factory firmware restore, a procedure I’ve never had to use before, got the network operating again. I’m glad we agree we’re in the 1% case now, in terms of the update Denon put out there
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post #18038 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JJ7 View Post
If you read the posts, you’ll see that those of us who are reporting these problems tried multiple microprocessor and network resets to no avail. Only the factory firmware restore, a procedure I’ve never had to use before, got the network operating again. I’m glad we agree we’re in the 1% case now, in terms of the update Denon put out there
I've read all of the posts in all of the Denon threads and what you need to realize is most people who have no issue never post. Those who get a quick resolve might post once or twice and those who don't get things resolved obviously keep posting because frustration has kicked in and their stuff isn't working. There's no correlation between a few troubleshooting posts in receiver threads and some widespread firmware upgrade bricking large numbers of receivers network cards so you can quote percentages all day long and they're just a number you typed on a keyboard .

Reality is most have auto updates set to on like I do and firmware updates result in zero issues. I always update by WiFi and I never have to do a factory reset and that's the way it is for most. For some of the rest with issues processor resets (maybe multiple) are the fix and for some a firmware backtrack is the answer. That last part shouldn't have to happen and in those cases something larger is obviously going on and Denon needs to prioritize helping those folks but owners theads are troubleshooting threads not places to calculate percentages of owners with the same issue.

You go to the transmission line in a dealership and 100% of the trannys need work. Go to the front end line and 0% of them do. What's the percentage of actual owner transmissions that need work? Unknown based on too small a sample size in a weighted environment. Something is going on though. I don't dispute that.

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post #18039 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
If you had tried another USB stick first you might not have had to spend hours on it.

I've seen them. Also seen several fix things by doing a microprocessor reset. This is the same advice given in the OPPO threads as well after every firmware update. Save settings to a USB and reset the unit. 99 times out of 100 firmware update issues do not hard brick features. They're soft bricks resolved with a reset or several back to back. I'd be shocked if this one was any different.
So you're saying that between firmware versions, a usb stick model from one version of firmware will not work on another FW version and you need to change to a different usb stick? I guess it's possible, but I'm not buying it.

For people that had network failures after the latest firmware upgrade, I've not read where a microprocessor reset the or network reset fixed the networking, only restoring the factory firmware fixed networking, me included. Maybe you know of a case where a microprocessor reset fixed the networking failure in the latest firmware?
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post #18040 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 07:48 AM
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So you're saying that between firmware versions, a usb stick model from one version of firmware will not work on another FW version and you need to change to a different usb stick? I guess it's possible, but I'm not buying it.
That's good because that's not what I'm selling. Sometimes USB sticks get corrupted or the file itself is corrupted. Or a file needs to be on a stick empty of any other files to work. Sometimes just a switch to a completely different stick does the trick. I know this because I've done this multiple times over the years with different electronic updates and recommended it multiple times for others having issues with a particular USB drive. Go into any TV or OPPO thread and this has been recommended over and over again and worked. AV receivers are no exception.

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For people that had network failures after the latest firmware upgrade, I've not read where a microprocessor reset the or network reset fixed the networking, only restoring the factory firmware fixed networking, me included. Maybe you know of a case where a microprocessor reset fixed the networking failure in the latest firmware?
I read of a couple but that's in 3 Denon owners threads. Larger point is most have no issue to necessitate a reset or this place would be flooded by now. I'm not denying there's a problem. Just the scale of it is unknown until more people chime in. Just as many already have said they have no issue as those who say they do. Why isn't my receiver affected? It auto updated to the newest firmware and my network still works. If it's just the firmware that's the problem then mine should be borked as well.

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post #18041 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
I read of a couple but that's in 3 Denon owners threads. Larger point is most have no issue to necessitate a reset or this place would be flooded by now. I'm not denying there's a problem. Just the scale of it is unknown until more people chime in. Just as many already have said they have no issue as those who say they do. Why isn't my receiver affected? It auto updated to the newest firmware and my network still works. If it's just the firmware that's the problem then mine should be borked as well.
I was experiencing some deja vu, then remembered you had previously denied that a bug in PCM 2.0 Dolby upmixing was introduced via a prior firmware:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post56919538

...this despite multiple identical reports from users. That issue was resolved by a firmware update about a month later:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post57059360

So consider letting affected users work through such issues, rather than assuming we don't know what we're doing. Personally I'm happy if I'm not hit by some manufacturer bug. But given all the per-user configuration/setting differences, and likely h/w variations in different production runs, I don't take that as evidence against multiple detailed/credible reports.
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post #18042 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
<snip>

I read of a couple but that's in 3 Denon owners threads. Larger point is most have no issue to necessitate a reset or this place would be flooded by now. I'm not denying there's a problem. Just the scale of it is unknown until more people chime in. Just as many already have said they have no issue as those who say they do. Why isn't my receiver affected? It auto updated to the newest firmware and my network still works. If it's just the firmware that's the problem then mine should be borked as well.

I wonder if the average Denon AVR owner who is set for auto-updates and who has consequently received the faulty 2020/06/25 firmware upgrade would even know that they've lost networking capability unless, of course, they had immediate/regular need for network access, like HEOS users, etc. They might possibly just go forward with no knowledge of the loss of networking and with no more future firmware updates (since they have no networking capability). Is there something that might tip off such a casual user to the networking problem?
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post #18043 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
<snip>

I read of a couple but that's in 3 Denon owners threads. Larger point is most have no issue to necessitate a reset or this place would be flooded by now. I'm not denying there's a problem. Just the scale of it is unknown until more people chime in. Just as many already have said they have no issue as those who say they do. Why isn't my receiver affected? It auto updated to the newest firmware and my network still works. If it's just the firmware that's the problem then mine should be borked as well.

I wonder if the average Denon AVR owner who is set for auto-updates and who has consequently received the faulty 2020/06/25 firmware upgrade would even know that they've lost networking capability unless, of course, they had immediate/regular need for network access, like HEOS users, etc. They might possibly just go forward with no knowledge of the loss of networking and with no more future firmware updates (since they have no networking capability). Is there something that might tip them off to the networking problem?
For me, I tested using HEOS and checking for updates. I have HEOS speakers at home as well so that's what usually alerts me to the fact that any of my Denon devices may have an issue (i.e. when they no longer show up in the HEOS app). I am probably one of those "average users" that keeps auto update on and did not have an issue. I keep auto update on mainly because I use HEOS alot and want to make sure it is up to date.
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post #18044 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mmatusky View Post
I wonder if the average Denon AVR owner who is set for auto-updates and who has consequently received the faulty 2020/06/25 firmware upgrade would even know that they've lost networking capability unless, of course, they had immediate/regular need for network access, like HEOS users, etc. They might possibly just go forward with no knowledge of the loss of networking and with no more future firmware updates (since they have no networking capability). Is there something that might tip off such a casual user to the networking problem?
Its surely possible they wouldn't know if they didn't use HEOS or visited here but i think that would include those who've network has been affected and those whose haven't like mine.

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post #18045 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 10:06 AM
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FWIW I have an X4300H and have always had auto updates on. I assume I have the newest firmware, but will have to look when I get home. I've been fortunate (* knocks on wood) to never have an issue with firmware updates. I remember at least 2 other updates that caused problems for some but I wasn't affected. Posts like this make me think I should turn off auto updates just to be safe. Don't really want to potentially cause issues for something outside of the warranty coverage. Madmax is right about one thing for sure - for every person who has an issue, there's a bunch more who don't and don't bother to post, so it's really hard to say how big the problem is. I hope everyone with problems get them sorted out quickly and Denon fixes whatever they broke.
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post #18046 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by JJ7 View Post
I was experiencing some deja vu, then remembered you had previously denied that a bug in PCM 2.0 Dolby upmixing was introduced via a prior firmware:



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post56919538



...this despite multiple identical reports from users. That issue was resolved by a firmware update about a month later:



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post57059360



So consider letting affected users work through such issues, rather than assuming we don't know what we're doing. Personally I'm happy if I'm not hit by some manufacturer bug. But given all the per-user configuration/setting differences, and likely h/w variations in different production runs, I don't take that as evidence against multiple detailed/credible reports.
What I deny is that everyone is affected and no one should update their receivers because that's what those affected by any of these things almost always start saying. I haven't stopped anyone from working through any issues. I even admitted there was an issue but there's multiple credible users on both sides of it. I'll give you the production run thing. That's a good hypothesis.

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post #18047 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 10:23 AM
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I hope everyone with problems get them sorted out quickly and Denon fixes whatever they broke.
I second that.

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post #18048 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by JJ7 View Post
I was experiencing some deja vu, then remembered you had previously denied that a bug in PCM 2.0 Dolby upmixing was introduced via a prior firmware:



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post56919538



...this despite multiple identical reports from users. That issue was resolved by a firmware update about a month later:



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post57059360



So consider letting affected users work through such issues, rather than assuming we don't know what we're doing. Personally I'm happy if I'm not hit by some manufacturer bug. But given all the per-user configuration/setting differences, and likely h/w variations in different production runs, I don't take that as evidence against multiple detailed/credible reports.
Here's one of the denier posts you linked to as well:

There are also a good number of owners who are not being affected so its not a guarantee that upgrading to the latest firmware will cause everyone the same issue. Good thing is unlike OPPO you can flash older firmware over any update which is nice. Best thing owners with this issue can do is make a ticket with Denon directly if you are having this problem and don't just think that posting here about it somehow gets back to them. That's the quickest way to a fix and again I sympathize with those who are affected whatever the actual number is. Even one is one too many especially if you are that one.

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post #18049 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mmatusky View Post
I wonder if the average Denon AVR owner who is set for auto-updates and who has consequently received the faulty 2020/06/25 firmware upgrade would even know that they've lost networking capability unless, of course, they had immediate/regular need for network access, like HEOS users, etc. They might possibly just go forward with no knowledge of the loss of networking and with no more future firmware updates (since they have no networking capability). Is there something that might tip off such a casual user to the networking problem?
Yes, that's quite possible. I use IP control so I instantly knew something was up. A couple of hours before I had replaced the 24-port core network switch in my house, so I reset a few things at first thinking that was the culprit. But I pretty quickly saw that the Denon's network card has disappeared. Then I got on the forums and I saw I wasn't the first to experience this problem
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post #18050 of 18088 Old 06-29-2020, 06:29 PM
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Im listening to a SACD that has a surround mix, im listening in Diect mode to the 5.1 mix and the sub indicator is lit up on the app remote, but the sub will not raise or lower, all other 5 channels raise and lower, just wondering why not the sub or the .1 channel.
Just checked and the stereo is 2.0 too. Sounds great, still just wondering

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post #18051 of 18088 Old 06-30-2020, 07:18 AM
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Firmware bug now officially known (at least on the German Heise.de site):
https://www.heise.de/news/Denon-AV-R...n-4799703.html
https://denon-de.custhelp.com/app/an...tail/a_id/3836
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post #18052 of 18088 Old 06-30-2020, 08:38 AM
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Firmware bug now officially known (at least on the German Heise.de site):
https://www.heise.de/news/Denon-AV-R...n-4799703.html
https://denon-de.custhelp.com/app/an...tail/a_id/3836
Thanks for the references. Here’s google translate for the Denon site:
06/29/2020: The last update of our HEOS FW unfortunately caused some problems with network connectivity and voice control for Alexa and Google. We are currently working hard to solve these problems and hope to be able to offer you a solution very soon. We would like to apologize for the problems caused.
By problems I think they mean “network card is non-functional.” But presumably they can release a fixed firmware for folks to upgrade to via usb... and then improve their QA moving forward.

My X4300H still seems to be working fine, after the onerous set of restores and updates I did (not really recommended). I’ll have to double check that the unit isn’t obviously hotter, though, as some folks here and in your links have reported.
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post #18053 of 18088 Old 06-30-2020, 08:17 PM
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I had the problem with the new firmware update. Had to do the factory firmware reset to fix my network issue.

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post #18054 of 18088 Old 06-30-2020, 11:46 PM
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Im listening to a SACD that has a surround mix, im listening in Diect mode to the 5.1 mix and the sub indicator is lit up on the app remote, but the sub will not raise or lower, all other 5 channels raise and lower, just wondering why not the sub or the .1 channel.
Just checked and the stereo is 2.0 too. Sounds great, still just wondering
No bass mgmt. in Direct mode so no sub unless you select LFE+Mains. Listen in Auto mode which will be DSD via PCM and see if the sub engages.

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post #18055 of 18088 Old 07-01-2020, 01:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
Im listening to a SACD that has a surround mix, im listening in Diect mode to the 5.1 mix and the sub indicator is lit up on the app remote, but the sub will not raise or lower, all other 5 channels raise and lower, just wondering why not the sub or the .1 channel.
Just checked and the stereo is 2.0 too. Sounds great, still just wondering
That is strange. As you note, the sub is active and therefore you should be able to adjust the sub volume level. Try a different 5.1 SACD to see if the same result presents.
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post #18056 of 18088 Old 07-02-2020, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
Im listening to a SACD that has a surround mix, im listening in Diect mode to the 5.1 mix and the sub indicator is lit up on the app remote, but the sub will not raise or lower, all other 5 channels raise and lower, just wondering why not the sub or the .1 channel.
Just checked and the stereo is 2.0 too. Sounds great, still just wondering
That is strange. As you note, the sub is active and therefore you should be able to adjust the sub volume level. Try a different 5.1 SACD to see if the same result presents.
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post #18057 of 18088 Old 07-02-2020, 02:37 PM
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Add another to the list.

AVR-X4300H lost all network functionality.

I can't say for certain when the network connections were lost. It has probably been 1 month or so since I ran HEOS in my theater room... I cannot check firmware version using normal menu commands, as the options are grayed out due to no network connection (?). However, I am 90% sure I had auto-update on, so the posts over the past week make me think the recent June firmware update is the culprit.

Of course, I assumed it was something I did. I re-arranged my AV rack last weekend by adding a Monolith 3x200W for the front stage. I thought I broke something with the power-off cycles or moving the AVR. I did not notice the network issues until after I re-ran Audyssey and wanted to check the new amplification with some Amazon Ultra-HD songs via HEOS.

I would rather not touch things until a formal response from Denon is released. I can still get audio and video through my connected peripherals, so I'm going to stay put with no network rather than a full reset like previous users have done to restore network function.

I'll be a curious browser of this thread as we learn more about this failed firmware roll-out.

Cheers,
M
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post #18058 of 18088 Old 07-02-2020, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MarshMPH View Post
Add another to the list.

AVR-X4300H lost all network functionality.

I can't say for certain when the network connections were lost. It has probably been 1 month or so since I ran HEOS in my theater room... I cannot check firmware version using normal menu commands, as the options are grayed out due to no network connection (?). However, I am 90% sure I had auto-update on, so the posts over the past week make me think the recent June firmware update is the culprit.

Of course, I assumed it was something I did. I re-arranged my AV rack last weekend by adding a Monolith 3x200W for the front stage. I thought I broke something with the power-off cycles or moving the AVR. I did not notice the network issues until after I re-ran Audyssey and wanted to check the new amplification with some Amazon Ultra-HD songs via HEOS.

I would rather not touch things until a formal response from Denon is released. I can still get audio and video through my connected peripherals, so I'm going to stay put with no network rather than a full reset like previous users have done to restore network function.

I'll be a curious browser of this thread as we learn more about this failed firmware roll-out.

Cheers,
M
I lost my Network on the 4300 also after the update. Same symptoms as you. I have done multiple resets with out luck. New x-4500h will arrive tomorrow. Also will be watching for possible fix.
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post #18059 of 18088 Old 07-02-2020, 02:57 PM
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Well, I got lucky and my 6300 has no network issues with the latest firmware. I had kept auto update off for the longest time but decided to turn it on with this update. After reading about the issues others are having I turned auto update right back off. I hope Denon is quick to get a fix out there for those that are affected by this.
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post #18060 of 18088 Old 07-03-2020, 07:39 PM
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