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post #1 of 21 Old 05-06-2016, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Yamaha rx-a860 or rx-a1060

Hello all. Looking for some advice. I am planning to replace my current Pioneer Elite VSX-21THX with one of the above mentioned Yamaha models. The Pioneer has been nearly flawless the past seven years, but I am looking for HDCP 2.2 and high dynamic range (HDR) support, plus possibly MusicCast. down the road. I am currently running a simple 5.1 system using Samsung JU7100, Klipsch RP-260 fronts, polk monitor 40 rears and a PSA V1500 sub. I have a Sony S3500 player connected. I will likely upgrade my rears to the Klipsch RP series in the near future. Other than that, my system will probably not change. My uses are 50% TV, 30% movies and 20% music. Here is my dilema.

I feel that the Pioneer, with 110 watts per channel and weighing in at nearly 30 pounds is a solidly powered unit. It seems to produce very clear and powerful sound, especially with music, but I don't have a way to compare it to other AVRs. I like the 15" deep dimension of the RX-A850/860, but I am somewhat afraid that it will seem underpowered, compared to the Pioneer. The RX-1050/1060 seems closer to it in the weight and power aspects, but the added depth might require me to leave the back panel off of my 19" deep cabinet, for additional ventilation.. I am leaning toward the 1050/1060, but I welcome all opinions. I realize that my speakers are very efficient. My goals are clear dialogue, reasonable volume and quality sound. I normally play the Pioneer between -20 to -25, depending on source. IMO, -20 is fairly loud.

As a side note, the AVR will be housed in a BDI cabinet. The Pioneer runs fairly cool, as long as I crack open the front door. The rear panel is affixed. I am under the impression that the Yamaha will also run reasonably cool. As stated earlier, I can always remove the rear panel for additional ventilation, if needed. Sorry to ramble. I am not astute on all the technical aspects. I just like to enjoy my 5.1 set-up. Thanks all.

2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
Office: Yamaha A-S701, Bluesound Node 2, Monitor Audio Silver 2, SVS SB12-NSD, Marantz CD6006
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post #2 of 21 Old 05-06-2016, 03:27 PM
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The klipsch rp260 is a 2 way tower so with either model set the speaker configuration
to small and extra bass off. Plenty of power that way and cooler to boot. The a1060 is
slightly more powerful etc, but not all that much better this year. Pretty similar.
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post #3 of 21 Old 05-06-2016, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post
The klipsch rp260 is a 2 way tower so with either model set the speaker configuration
to small and extra bass off. Plenty of power that way and cooler to boot. The a1060 is
slightly more powerful etc, but not all that much better this year. Pretty similar.
Thanks for the reply kikkenit2. So would the rx-a1050 or rx-a1060 be overkill for my 5.1 system, vs the rx-a850/860, or would the extra few hundred dollars spent result in a noticeable difference in sound quality?

2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
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post #4 of 21 Old 05-06-2016, 04:21 PM
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I have an a1000 and a v773. They both are pretty close to your comparison, but several
years older. I do find a difference in sound quality and maximum volume. The price
difference was a lot though. Both a860 & a1060 get the new 16hz subwoofer eq so
buy what fits your budget. They both have all the new important tools.
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post #5 of 21 Old 05-06-2016, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post
I have an a1000 and a v773. They both are pretty close to your comparison, but several
years older. I do find a difference in sound quality and maximum volume. The price
difference was a lot though. Both a860 & a1060 get the new 16hz subwoofer eq so
buy what fits your budget. They both have all the new important tools.
I will likely never go beyond 5.1 with my system and I doubt I will use many of the features of either the rx-a860 or 1060. It really comes down to sound quality, having enough power to reasonably drive my speakers and foremost dependability. I do however like to crank it up occasionally. The improved subwoofer eq on both models appear to be a big plus. If the extra money spent for the rx-a1060 results in noticeable improvements in power and sq over the rx-a860, I have no problem spending it. I would hate to buy a receiver and later wish I had more power. Thanks kikkenit2.
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2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
Office: Yamaha A-S701, Bluesound Node 2, Monitor Audio Silver 2, SVS SB12-NSD, Marantz CD6006
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post #6 of 21 Old 05-06-2016, 05:38 PM
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You know, in order to increase the volume of your speakers by 3dB, you need to double the power of your receiver. The difference of 10-20 watts makes a minuscule difference. Unless you have very highly inefficient speakers, you likely will never approach 100 watts. Pick by the features you want.
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post #7 of 21 Old 05-07-2016, 07:52 AM
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Only 5.1, neither receiver's power will make a single hoot of difference. Sound quality? Err... yeah, none.

You can even save a couple hundred by buying the v781 or v681 instead, if you're not going to bother with any of the features from the Aventage line.
Besides, the A860 is basically just a non-stripped v781; meaning slightly better build quality and some exclusive Aventage-only settings (sub-PEQ for example).
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post #8 of 21 Old 05-07-2016, 09:09 AM
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Pic is from yamaha v681 manual pg.114. Subwoofer eq is called out. The v681 only
has single mic position ypao while v781 and above have multipoint measurements.
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post #9 of 21 Old 05-07-2016, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfster View Post
You know, in order to increase the volume of your speakers by 3dB, you need to double the power of your receiver. The difference of 10-20 watts makes a minuscule difference. Unless you have very highly inefficient speakers, you likely will never approach 100 watts. Pick by the features you want.
I have Monitor Audio Silver 8 speakers as part of my 2 channel system in the basement. I believe they are 6 ohm and a little harder to drive. It's possible that they could eventually be used for my HT as part of a 5.1 system. Wouldn't the rx-a1060 make sense if that were to happen?

2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
Office: Yamaha A-S701, Bluesound Node 2, Monitor Audio Silver 2, SVS SB12-NSD, Marantz CD6006
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post #10 of 21 Old 05-07-2016, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
I have Monitor Audio Silver 8 speakers as part of my 2 channel system in the basement. I believe they are 6 ohm and a little harder to drive. It's possible that they could eventually be used for my HT as part of a 5.1 system. Wouldn't the rx-a1060 make sense if that were to happen?
Those are 4 ohm speakers with a sensitivity of 90 dB. Power should not be a problem driving them past listening levels. Just make sure you receiver is stable with a 4 ohm load.
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post #11 of 21 Old 05-07-2016, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
I have Monitor Audio Silver 8 speakers as part of my 2 channel system in the basement. I believe they are 6 ohm and a little harder to drive. It's possible that they could eventually be used for my HT as part of a 5.1 system. Wouldn't the rx-a1060 make sense if that were to happen?
Don't think that's an issue. I'm running SVS Ultras with an A850. The SVS Ultras are actually 4ohm speakers with only 87db sensitivity, 3db off your MAS8. The A850 had no issues handling them even down to -10db (which at that point was too damn loud).
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post #12 of 21 Old 05-07-2016, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
Only 5.1, neither receiver's power will make a single hoot of difference. Sound quality? Err... yeah, none.

You can even save a couple hundred by buying the v781 or v681 instead, if you're not going to bother with any of the features from the Aventage line.
Besides, the A860 is basically just a non-stripped v781; meaning slightly better build quality and some exclusive Aventage-only settings (sub-PEQ for example).
You don't feel your A850 produces any amount of quality sound? Movies or music? Do you not like it?

2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
Office: Yamaha A-S701, Bluesound Node 2, Monitor Audio Silver 2, SVS SB12-NSD, Marantz CD6006
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post #13 of 21 Old 05-07-2016, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
You don't feel your A850 produces any amount of quality sound? Movies or music? Do you not like it?
Huh? I love how my A850 sounds. I was comparing the possible sound quality difference between the A860 and A1060 would be pretty much.. none.
I also have an A2050, so difference in sound quality between the A850 and A2050 is minute at best (at least, I can't hear much if any difference which means it's most possibly placebo).
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post #14 of 21 Old 05-07-2016, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Huh? I love how my A850 sounds. I was comparing the possible sound quality difference between the A860 and A1060 would be pretty much.. none.
I also have an A2050, so difference in sound quality between the A850 and A2050 is minute at best (at least, I can't hear much if any difference which means it's most possibly placebo).
Sorry, I misread your post. Wow, that says a lot about the A850 if you think it compares favorably to the 2050. That may be the way for me to go, only I will probably wait for the 860 for the additional sub eq. Thanks for the input, it's what I was looking for.

2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
Office: Yamaha A-S701, Bluesound Node 2, Monitor Audio Silver 2, SVS SB12-NSD, Marantz CD6006
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post #15 of 21 Old 05-08-2016, 04:12 AM
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Don't think that's an issue. I'm running SVS Ultras with an A850. The SVS Ultras are actually 4ohm speakers with only 87db sensitivity, 3db off your MAS8. The A850 had no issues handling them even down to -10db (which at that point was too damn loud).

SVS Ultra tower - 8-ohm, 88db

SVS Ultra bookshelf - 8-ohm, 87db
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post #16 of 21 Old 05-08-2016, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
Sorry, I misread your post. Wow, that says a lot about the A850 if you think it compares favorably to the 2050. That may be the way for me to go, only I will probably wait for the 860 for the additional sub eq. Thanks for the input, it's what I was looking for.
Yeah of course the 2050 is of higher build quality though and has Atmos 5.2.4/7.2.2, but power wise, at least with my SVS speakers... I don't see it being really much more than what the 850 already can do.

Yes wait for the 860, the lower octave for the sub-EQ would be quite benifitual.


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SVS Ultra tower - 8-ohm, 88db

SVS Ultra bookshelf - 8-ohm, 87db
On paper yes.

Real results - https://www.audioholics.com/bookshel...s-measurements

I've also confirmed it with SVS personally, they said the Ultras do go down to 4ohms more often than what its specs say.
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post #17 of 21 Old 05-08-2016, 06:30 AM
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Saying they go down to 4-ohm more than specs doesn't make them 4-ohm, as all speakers will still dip down below 8-ohm based on the frequency. Graph confirms "nominal" 8-ohm is still accurate. Bottom line ... either model should be able to drive even 4-ohm speakers at moderate volume level without any issue.

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post #18 of 21 Old 08-18-2016, 07:36 AM
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Do the Sabre DACs in the 1060 justify the $300 increase in price over the 860? If that is the case I might just go with a refurb 1060
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post #19 of 21 Old 08-18-2016, 07:32 PM
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Do the Sabre DACs in the 1060 justify the $300 increase in price over the 860? If that is the case I might just go with a refurb 1060
I read in another forum that the Yamaha's with Sabre DACs tend to sound a bit brighter with less neutrality as you go up, although I can't find the link to it anymore. Don't take my word for it, but that's all I read about. I would try to auditioned both with good speakers before deciding, Best Buy is a good place but go for your local audio dealers.
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post #20 of 21 Old 08-19-2016, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Julio Castrejon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by anirudhs View Post
Do the Sabre DACs in the 1060 justify the $300 increase in price over the 860? If that is the case I might just go with a refurb 1060
I read in another forum that the Yamaha's with Sabre DACs tend to sound a bit brighter with less neutrality as you go up, although I can't find the link to it anymore. Don't take my word for it, but that's all I read about. I would try to auditioned both with good speakers before deciding, Best Buy is a good place but go for your local audio dealers.
That quote is in the Dynaudio owners' forum.

Coincidentally, I will be using the Yamaha receiver to drive Dynaudio Emit M20 speakers.

I auditioned the Golden Ear Aon 2, which was junk as compared to the Dynaudio. I don't get all the rave reviews surrounding Golden Ear. The audio dealer (Overture Audio of Ann Arbor, MI) speculated that Sandy Gross tapes $1000 to each speaker.
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post #21 of 21 Old 08-24-2016, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by anirudhs View Post
Do the Sabre DACs in the 1060 justify the $300 increase in price over the 860? If that is the case I might just go with a refurb 1060
I have the same question. I've seen comments that this is a significantly better DAC but don't know if it's really noticeable.
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